American tourist who died at remote waterfall "insulted the spirits" say Koh Samui locals

[Keesters]

Words fail me. Not used to dealing with 5-year-olds.

 

 

[oldhippy]

8 minutes ago, Keesters said:

Words fail me. Not used to dealing with 5-year-olds.

 

 

You talking to me?

 

[Keesters]

Just now, oldhippy said:

You talking to me?

 

No, the locals. Sorry if you got confused.

 

 

[NickJ]

He died because he believed in himself to much.  Never figuring anything bad could happen.  Stupidity. Absentminded....... Not thinking the whole plan forward.  Tough to do.  On a larger scale Mallory succumbed to it.

Anyways....another moron scratches Fate on her lovley smelling bottom.

[owl sees all]

11 hours ago, rkidlad said:

Yes, it is. And Thailand is the most religious country in the world. Google it. 

I've been to quite a few countries down the years and Thailand is no way the most religious. Might rank as one of the most superstitious though.

[rkidlad]

56 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

I've been to quite a few countries down the years and Thailand is no way the most religious. Might rank as one of the most superstitious though.

This one was done on stats. I've never in my life met a Thai who doesn't believe in a force higher up. 

[rkidlad]

11 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

You are the one making it us v them.

 

I am quite happy for people to believe what they want. Niether science or religion  makes one person, tribe or race smarter than another. Only people themselves do that.

 

People believe in religion because they are comfortable with it. People believe in science for the same reason.

 

Who defines which is right?

Who defines who's right? The person who is right does that. The world is round. The world is billions of years old. Someone else can believe it's flat or it's only 6,000 years old - they are simply wrong. 

 

Your way of thinking is dangerous and detrimental. There was a US republican politician recently who said they believed in climate change. Great! Oh, but wait. He also said that god had a plan and would take care of us all. Do you think this is smart? Will you be ultra PC and defend this man's idea merely because it's what he 'believes'. People will unfortunately believe this rubbish and this is detrimental to everyone's health.

 

What makes people smart is progression. Learning all the time. Looking at the evidence and basing decisions on it. It's not just making up stories with zero evidence and expecting people to never question it. Why can't we question it? I have zero problems with people questioning my belief in science. 

 

Personal beliefs should be exactly that...personal. If you wanna believe in a god, the tooth fairy, spirits who get offended easily and unicorns, that's up to the individual. But once you start leaking these ideas into society with zero evidence and defying common sense, that's when you will have a problem. Science will quite happily disprove these things. If someone can prove otherwise, bring your evidence to the table and prove it. Otherwise, keep it to yourself because people will disprove it. 

 

Religion and superstition are faith based. Science is not. It's based on evidence that keeps repeating itself over and over again until it's proven to be a 'scientific theory'. Don't confuse the dual definitions of theory. 

 

But if you wanna show your respect and believe that people who believe folk tales are just as smart as people who follow the science, go and see a witch doctor next time you're ill. Go and pray to god or Thor, etc, for better health. Don't take scientifically proven medicine to help you and tell me how you get on. 

 

 

 

Edited June 21, 2017 by rkidlad

[outlaw11wa]

23 hours ago, rkidlad said:

No need for any health and safety checks here. It's clearly annoyed spirits killing disrespectful tourists. 

 

Life's great when you don't have to think or do anything. 

 

 

The drawcard for many coming to Thailand can be the freedom to do things considered anb regulated to death elsewhere. Death by misadventure was a hazard i grew up with but has been almost hounded into extinction in the following generations.As the world followed the American trend of legal litigation and lawsuits it became more and more a beleif that someone else must responsible. Human history is punctuated by risk taking. It is how we continued to evolve to become the dominant species. Take that away and the race stagnates. Risk taking would likely be a big part of why so many farang come to Thailand.

[carmine]

On 6/20/2017 at 9:06 AM, thaifan01 said:

Well spoken, mate. Unfortunally lack of RESPECT for Thais and their culture is pretty common among tourists and expats.

 

Have a nice day :)

No its more a case of a lack of understanding about a different culture.  I've lived here many years and regard the expat community as largely very respectful.  Tourists generally don't mean to offend if sometimes they actually do.

 

Too many of the new expat arrivals here seem to show a blinkered unfair view of the existing expat community and would be better served getting a few years under their belt before being critical of others.

Edited June 21, 2017 by carmine

[LannaGuy]

15 hours ago, jenifer d said:

actually, most Thais have a reverence for nature that is completely unfathomable to the western mind...

and have YOU seen how the WORLD treats the animals that you EAT???

As I have been a vegetarian for 42 years (unlike ANY Thai I know) yes I am aware of the cruelty thank you. You have a rose-coloured view of Thais that is delusional based upon your 'wish' not the 'reality'.  Are you a vegetarian?  how many Thais do you know who are?  you think the littering of public places is ok?  soi dogs?   

[Sandy Freckle]

The guy was the author of his own demise..., simple as that.
It's happened before and will happen again.
Who is more the fool..., the fool ?
or the fool who follows a fool ?

Edited June 21, 2017 by Sandy Freckle

[owl sees all]

12 hours ago, billd766 said:

People believe in religion because they are comfortable with it. People believe in science for the same reason.

I cannot totally agree here. I agree with the word comfortable

 

Most people believe in religion because they are brought up in it. They take it with them into adulthood. Most know no better.

 

People believe in science because it it open to question by anyone. But if it is questioned the case has to be proved or it is debunked.

[owl sees all]

1 hour ago, rkidlad said:

This one was done on stats. I've never in my life met a Thai who doesn't believe in a force higher up.

I tend to agree with the 'force higher up'.

 

I've been here quite some time and I've seen the stroking of a deformed piglet's snout to rubbing powder on tortoises shells to throwing 4 inch nails into a stream to hugging trees at Cham Chanod. And mostly it boils down to being lucky with the lottery numbers. This is not religion it is avarice.

Edited June 21, 2017 by owl sees all

[TKDfella]

Okay, think some perspective is need here. 'Hands up' anyone here who hasn't seen something they, or anyone else, cannot explain? Ghost's, apparitions, UFO and so on. If one compares any of that list in Thailand with say the UK or the USA and my guess is that Thailand won't be first. Even in western religion you have 'God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Ghost'. Spiritualism in the west is every bit as prevalent as it is the east. It might take different forms, have different interpretations but basically the same...the Supernatural. Bravely walk through a graveyard at daytime but at night, it feels different. Why? Human history is replete with stories of the supernatural all the way from the ancient Mesopotamian religions, the so called 'cradles' of our society. The Thai people see snakes, cats etc in local villages as omens but you don't often see a snake slithering down Queens Boulevard or other western towns. The omens in the west take a different form like 'a black cat', a Crow or Raven perched in a particular place. How many believe in Count Dracula as a Vampire

Some of society think that we have grown beyond the use for 'Gods' (a good quote from Star Trek, Who mourns for Adonais) while other believe without doubt in an almighty (as in the movie, Forbidden Planet, where the 'speed of light has been greatly surpassed, and the Doctor on board says 'God sure makes some beautiful worlds)'.

Yes, I too think it might be ridiculous to think that a python seen in the village might foretell the next winner of the lottery but I think it equally ridiculous to view the number 666 (or 999) as bad omen.

So when talking of spiritualism in Thailand think about one's own foundations first. But don't do it while looking in a hand mirror for you might drop and break it and give yourself 7 years bad luck.

[kaorop]

16 hours ago, jenifer d said:

ummm, i've got news for you-

MOST animals do NOT piss in water, but on LAND... 

nice try, though... 

what, when and where have you seen a wild animal in Thailand piss?

 

not even close to a nice try

 

[LannaGuy]

11 minutes ago, TKDfella said:

Okay, think some perspective is need here. 'Hands up' anyone here who hasn't seen something they, or anyone else, cannot explain? Ghost's, apparitions, UFO and so on. If one compares any of that list in Thailand with say the UK or the USA and my guess is that Thailand won't be first. Even in western religion you have 'God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Ghost'. Spiritualism in the west is every bit as prevalent as it is the east. It might take different forms, have different interpretations but basically the same...the Supernatural. Bravely walk through a graveyard at daytime but at night, it feels different. Why? Human history is replete with stories of the supernatural all the way from the ancient Mesopotamian religions, the so called 'cradles' of our society. The Thai people see snakes, cats etc in local villages as omens but you don't often see a snake slithering down Queens Boulevard or other western towns. The omens in the west take a different form like 'a black cat', a Crow or Raven perched in a particular place. How many believe in Count Dracula as a Vampire

Some of society think that we have grown beyond the use for 'Gods' (a good quote from Star Trek, Who mourns for Adonais) while other believe without doubt in an almighty (as in the movie, Forbidden Planet, where the 'speed of light has been greatly surpassed, and the Doctor on board says 'God sure makes some beautiful worlds)'.

Yes, I too think it might be ridiculous to think that a python seen in the village might foretell the next winner of the lottery but I think it equally ridiculous to view the number 666 (or 999) as bad omen.

So when talking of spiritualism in Thailand think about one's own foundations first. But don't do it while looking in a hand mirror for you might drop and break it and give yourself 7 years bad luck.

You are not that knowledgable methinks. Spiritualism is NOTHING to do with Animism. Thais are superstitious by nature and as the government controls most of their lives they seek 'supernatural help'.  Undeveloped countries and uneducated people will always turn to superstition form the top to the bottom.

 

[jenifer d]

1 hour ago, carmine said:

No its more a case of a lack of understanding about a different culture.  I've lived here many years and regard the expat community as largely very respectful.  Tourists generally don't mean to offend if sometimes they actually do.

 

Too many of the new expat arrivals here seem to show a blinkered unfair view of the existing expat community and would be better served getting a few years under their belt before being critical of others.

the more time i've spent here (7 1/2 years+ so far), and the more i become immersed in the language, culture, and life,

the more i dislike the substantial segment of the expat "community" that doesn't bother to learn the language,

let alone appreciate and/or understand the culture...

 

i DO respect those expats who DO speak the language and DO acknowledge/understand the culture,

but even most of them stop short of actually studying the culture and adapting the best and most spiritual aspects of it, as i do

 

-for this, as you may notice, i get a lot of sneering sarcasm and derision thrown my way on this forum-

but at least i don't conduct myself as nothing better than a modern day colonist, and i am truly loved and respected by Thais

for the aforementioned facts, with dear Thai friends  in ALL walks of life from Betong in deepest Yala to Chiang Khan on the Mekong,

and dozens of provinces in between...

[jenifer d]

35 minutes ago, kaorop said:

what, when and where have you seen a wild animal in Thailand piss?

 

not even close to a nice try

 

tons of monkeys, water monitors, and cobras and frogs, among other things

[owl sees all]

15 minutes ago, jenifer d said:

for this, as you may notice, i get a lot of sneering sarcasm and derision thrown my way on this forum-

but at least i don't conduct myself as nothing better than a modern day colonist, and i am truly loved and respected by Thais

I only copied a bit of your post dear. Forgive me for that.

 

I reckon you have a bit of a complex about many farang here in Thailand.

 

No one hates you. No one is throwing sneering sarcasm and derision at you. You are simply talking down to people and it gets their backs up.

 

You have no monopoly on love and caring. I love Thailand also but I'm not blind to the injustices and double-standards of the country. I help in my own way, like thousands of expats do every day.

[billd766]

13 hours ago, kaorop said:

Peer reviewed testing, examination and proof thats who.

I am not happy that primitive beliefs still exist in such large numbers, but as we have only just climbed down from the trees its not surprising.

 

 

But who decides the questions and answers, decides who and how many people are tested, does the testing and comes up with a result. Who would be unbiased enough to do it?

 

It really doesn't matter that you are happy or not that primitive beliefs still exist in such large numbers, because of your statement your are already biased towards one side.

Edited June 21, 2017 by billd766
edited for bad spelling

[carmine]

38 minutes ago, jenifer d said:

the more time i've spent here (7 1/2 years+ so far), and the more i become immersed in the language, culture, and life,

the more i dislike the substantial segment of the expat "community" that doesn't bother to learn the language,

let alone appreciate and/or understand the culture...

 

i DO respect those expats who DO speak the language and DO acknowledge/understand the culture,

but even most of them stop short of actually studying the culture and adapting the best and most spiritual aspects of it, as i do

 

-for this, as you may notice, i get a lot of sneering sarcasm and derision thrown my way on this forum-

but at least i don't conduct myself as nothing better than a modern day colonist, and i am truly loved and respected by Thais

for the aforementioned facts, with dear Thai friends  in ALL walks of life from Betong in deepest Yala to Chiang Khan on the Mekong,

and dozens of provinces in between...

 

Whilst i think its commendable to learn the language and ofcourse beneficial i believe the only definitive requirement of an expect living here is to show respect and treat others the way you would wish to be treated yourself.  

 

For my part i haven't witnessed sneering or sarcasm from expats towards those that speak the language, more a slight embarrassment in the knowledge that they themselves might have made more of an effort to do so themselves.

[owl sees all]

14 minutes ago, carmine said:

treat others the way you would wish to be treated yourself.

Absolutely right.  I believe in this!

 

When Prof' Richard Dawkins is asked to give a moral alternative to 'Christian values" he usually replies; "treat others the way you would wish to be treated yourself."

 

Edited June 21, 2017 by owl sees all

[owl sees all]

I think some of my Englishness has rubbed off on the village Thais.

 

I was taking the village chief to Nong Khai (for his business) along with his wife and my wife. He was sitting in the front and the two ladies in the back. He was drinking from a bottle of water. When he finished he wound down the window and threw it out. Fortunately the traffic was sparse. I reversed the pick-up quickly got out and threw the empty bottle in the back.

 

I made nothing of it at all. Just carried on driving. Not sure whether he was bemused or shocked. But he had a strange look about him; maybe embarrassment!!

 

The following week saw the village undergo a significant change. Rubbish, which had been there for years, was being picked up and put in bins and a rubbish collection started the following month.

 

BUT I can tell you Mrs Owl was not a happy bunny. How dare I do such a thing. Thainess!!!

Edited June 21, 2017 by owl sees all

[TKDfella]

1 hour ago, LannaGuy said:

You are not that knowledgable methinks. Spiritualism is NOTHING to do with Animism. Thais are superstitious by nature and as the government controls most of their lives they seek 'supernatural help'.  Undeveloped countries and uneducated people will always turn to superstition form the top to the bottom.

 

I was using the 'spiritualism' as a general and you are quite wrong about animism being that different. Animism is a belief based on the spiritual idea that the universe, and all natural objects within the universe, have souls or spirits. The Native Tribes of America did and still do perform related rituals as some religious sects in the UK regarding various stones. So I suggest you do some more study. Have a nice day.

[carmine]

4 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

I think some of my Englishness has rubbed off on the village Thais.

 

I was taking the village chief to Nong Khai (for his business) along with his wife and my wife. He was sitting in the front and the two ladies in the back. He was drinking from a bottle of water. When he finished he wound down the window and threw it out. Fortunately the traffic was sparse. I reversed the pick-up quickly got out and threw the empty bottle in the back.

 

I made nothing of it at all. Just carried on driving. Not sure whether he was bemused or shocked. But he had a strange look about him; maybe embarrassment!!

 

The following week saw the village undergo a significant change. Rubbish, which had been there for years, was being picked up and put in bins and a rubbish collection started the following month.

 

BUT I can tell you Mrs Owl was not a happy bunny. How dare I do such a thing. Thainess!!!

I had a similar situation years ago.  I saw genuine embarrassment when neighbors saw my horrified look as some rubbish was "lobbed" away.  Funny thing was, i never saw that happen again and never a word was ever mentioned.  

 

Coincidentally, my last visit to the UK was nine years ago and i deduced from that last visit that a lot of kids over there seemed to have forgotten what garbage bins are for!

[carmine]

Despite spiritualism and the likes the facts seem to be that a tourist tragically slipped and fell, fatally and perhaps there should be some kind of health/safety review baring in mind this is certainly not the first time this has happened.

 

What people choose or choose not to believe is their business but the bottom line is someone has died and can steps be taken to reduce the chance of another tragedy in the future.

[jacko45k]

On 20/06/2017 at 7:59 AM, Thaiwrath said:

As I am not as superstitious as these Thais, I would believe a 'loss of footing; was more of a contributing factor to his death, rather than any 'insults'.

Did he perhaps slip on a wet stone?

 

Ridiculous that such statements are given ink!

[owl sees all]

9 minutes ago, carmine said:

Coincidentally, my last visit to the UK was nine years ago and i deduced from that last visit that a lot of kids over there seemed to have forgotten what garbage bins are for!

I agree.

 

Two years ago I went back for the first time after a long spell here. I stayed in Kilburn (London). What a dump! Drunks everywhere. Rubbish blowing about all over the place (bins were full and overflowing). Youngsters weaving in and out of pedestrians on the pavement. Women shouting at their kids in push chairs.

 

Talk about going downhill!!

Edited June 21, 2017 by owl sees all

[owl sees all]

4 minutes ago, carmine said:

What people choose or choose not to believe is their business but the bottom line is someone has died and can steps be taken to reduce the chance of another tragedy in the future.

A big dose of common sense I reckon. The folly of having too much youthfulness.

 

Anyway RIP.

[maewang99]

On ‎6‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 8:35 AM, rkidlad said:

Yes, things like religion were created to control people and for someone reason it's still working. Now we are progressing as societies and we can use law and order to deter people from doing harm. We can use science to to deter people from trying to defy gravity, etc. 

 

Using knowledge we can move forward and progress as a species. Using old nonsensical superstitious claptrap keeps some people in the stone ages. Opinions never change facts. People have the right to believe in whatever they want. Just like other people have the right to think that belief is stupid and detrimental to our well-being and progression. 

 

some folks don't see us as being "a species".

it would somehow mean we have some strange cognitive ability for things we can't see or smell or touch.... that there is a past and present, how fire is made... that's weird.

but I'm with you though on this..... example.  I look at my hands... opposing thumbs........ and we share DNA with chimpanzees in around 98%....

that's close enough for me.


 

 

  

 

Edited June 21, 2017 by maewang99