TV to Non O Conversion in Bkk - Only for Bkk Residents!

[virgomjh]

My friend was recently refused a one month extension to his Tourist Visa at his local immigration centre in the south (on the grounds that he had too many TV's in his passport). He got a new passport and got his next TV from Vientiane, and decided to convert this to a non O to get on the more solid footing of retirement extensions.

 

Based on credible feedback in these forums that not all local immigration centres offer the conversion service (and none in the south) he concluded that it would be necessary to travel to Bkk immigration for it. He went last week for the first of the two required visits with all the correct paperwork but was told by senior immigration official -

 

a. that Bkk immigration could not accept any application for any sort of visa from anyone residing outside of Bangkok.

b. that a TV to non O conversion application can be made at any local immigration centre anywhere in Thailand.

 

This appears to contradict some of the feedback on this and other forums!? Or is it that things have changed in last few weeks, and every immigration centre is now offering the TV to non O service??

 

It would be very useful for my friend and others to know whether anyone has recently had any success getting a TV to non O conversion in Surathani, or in any of the other southern provinces?

[metisdead]

Moving to the Visas forum.

[ubonjoe]

There have been recent reports of immigration in Bangkok turning people away. Apparently there has been a mandate that all offices should  accept the applications for a non immigrant visa. So offices are accepting the application that turned people away before.

He should check with his local office to find out if they are accepting them now.

[virgomjh]

12 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

There have been recent reports of immigration in Bangkok turning people away. Apparently there has been a mandate that all offices should  accept the applications for a non immigrant visa. So offices are accepting the application that turned people away before.

He should check with his local office to find out if they are accepting them now.

Thanks for your clarification on the current position. Do the authorities post these immigration rule changes and new directives anywhere to inform the public, or do they just give internal directives and let people find out by trial and, potentially very expensive, error? It seems at present that applicants are completely reliant on the great efforts of individuals such as yourself to try to identify these changes based entirely on feedback on the forums?

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

7 minutes ago, virgomjh said:

Thanks for your clarification on the current position. Do the authorities post these immigration rule changes and new directives anywhere to inform the public, or do they just give internal directives and let people find out by trial and, potentially very expensive, error? It seems at present that applicants are completely reliant on the great efforts of individuals such as yourself to try to identify these changes based entirely on feedback on the forums?

 

 

Immigration rarely seems to publicly, broadly, clearly communicate much of anything they do -- except for the broadest, most major policy changes. Operational detail things like the one affecting your friend, virtually never. Sometimes something might get posted on their website, but the average person would never know to go looking for it.

 

Immigration could have an informational newsletter for expats in the country who use Immigration services that people could voluntarily subscribe to, but they don't have one and never have in my many years here.  They can't even manage to maintain a comprehensible English language version of their website, not to mention being unable to keep their online 90-day reporting system in working order.

[virgomjh]

Thanks for your interesting observations TallGuy. 

A newsletter along the lines you suggested would be great, but even just a page on their website where all these changes could be registered would be a big help. Experts like ubonjoe could use it to broadcast the important details to the rest of us via this forum for example. How long would it take for one of the officers to type something on the page along the lines ''From 1st June 2017, applicants wishing to convert Tourist Visas to non O immigrant visas can apply at their local immigration centre. After this date Bangkok Immigration centre will only process such applications from Bangkok residents.''

Who knows how many people have wasted a lot of time and money travelling from their province to Bangkok over the past few weeks thinking this was still the right place to go. I hope at least that this post might help a few people avoid that mistake.

[Suradit69]

11 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Immigration rarely seems to publicly, broadly, clearly communicate much of anything they do -- except for the broadest, most major policy changes.

Or expats could take it upon themselves to inquire at their local immigration office regarding some issue that affects them, rather than depending solely on "credible feedback"  from message boards and then traveling to Bangkok to discover that the "credible feedback" was out of date or, in some cases, "incredible."

 

On 6/25/2017 at 1:58 AM, virgomjh said:

Based on credible feedback in these forums

Most of the basic information & requirements are available from one source or another, and yet reading through some threads on TV you discover that even this is beyond the comprehension of some expats who seem to be perpetually at sea. Even if immigrations played at nanny state hand-holding by broadcasting information, evidence that many expats would make the effort to keep informed isn't there. Many are still struggling to understand the difference between an extension of stay and a visa.

[IMA_FARANG]

Having applied for 5 annual retirement extensions I can ASSURE you that it has been always been the case that CW has always been for those living or residing  in Bangkok (immigration area one ONLY.).

They stress that point and have for years.

 

 

 

 

 

[ubonjoe]

14 minutes ago, IMA_FARANG said:

Having applied for 5 annual retirement extensions I can ASSURE you that it has been always been the case that CW has always been for those living or residing  in Bangkok (immigration area one ONLY.).

They stress that point and have for years.

 

Read the OP again. It is not about applying for a extension of stay based upon retirement. It is about applying for a non immigrant visa at immigration in Bangkok.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

AFAIK, in the past, BKK CW would do conversions to Non-O visas for people from other areas because, at least in the past, a lot of other Immigration offices outside BKK would NOT do them.  That was the status of things on Non-O conversions for quite a long time -- apparently until this recent change.

 

Joe alluded earlier to having recently seen some feedback where that former policy/practice had changed. But Immigration sure never announced the change in any fashion that I'm aware of. And, anyone reading here for advice on the subject over any extended period most likely would have believed doing a conversion at BKK would be fine.

 

The OP's friend was certainly reasonable in believing that BKK was an acceptable place to go for a Non-O conversion.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

12 hours ago, virgomjh said:

Thanks for your interesting observations TallGuy. 

A newsletter along the lines you suggested would be great, but even just a page on their website where all these changes could be registered would be a big help. Experts like ubonjoe could use it to broadcast the important details to the rest of us via this forum for example. How long would it take for one of the officers to type something on the page along the lines ''From 1st June 2017, applicants wishing to convert Tourist Visas to non O immigrant visas can apply at their local immigration centre. After this date Bangkok Immigration centre will only process such applications from Bangkok residents.''

Who knows how many people have wasted a lot of time and money travelling from their province to Bangkok over the past few weeks thinking this was still the right place to go. I hope at least that this post might help a few people avoid that mistake.

 

You're right. It would seemingly be a very simple thing for them to do, even just an Immigration Department updates web page with any changes.  But they don't do it, and I have no idea why.  If Immigration has a public relations officer anywhere in the department, he either must be the loneliest or most useless bureaucrat anywhere in the Thai government.

 

The one reason I can think of, besides potentially just simple laziness, is that once you put rules or policies down on paper or the web, people can point to them and rely on them as what's correct. And I could see that causing a problem given that seemingly so many local Immigration Offices have their own peculiar local policies and quirks for different things that necessarily don't match with the national policies. By not saying or writing anything anywhere, all the Immigration locals remain free to meander as they wish.

 

[JackThompson]

12 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

Even if immigrations played at nanny state hand-holding by broadcasting information, evidence that many expats would make the effort to keep informed isn't there. Many are still struggling to understand the difference between an extension of stay and a visa.

True - but at least you could then say, "It's their own fault - it's published on the official website," versus the situation now, where the "official websites" are minimally-helpful / incomplete, at best. 

And we haven't even gotten to the fact that some offices want a princely-sum "tip" for conversions.  The best policy is, give it a try at the local-office, be polite even if they aren't cooperative  (you will need their help later with the annual-extensions) - then go to a neighboring consulate if it doesn't work out.  Or, temporarily move to Bangkok, where they follow the rules and fees.

 

4 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

You're right. It would seemingly be a very simple thing for them to do, even just an Immigration Department updates web page with any changes.  But they don't do it, and I have no idea why.  If Immigration has a public relations officer anywhere in the department, he either must be the loneliest or most useless bureaucrat anywhere in the Thai government.

 

The one reason I can think of, besides potentially just simple laziness, is that once you put rules or policies down on paper or the web, people can point to them and rely on them as what's correct. And I could see that causing a problem given that seemingly so many local Immigration Offices have their own peculiar local policies and quirks for different things that necessarily don't match with the national policies. By not saying or writing anything anywhere, all the Immigration locals remain free to meander as they wish.

Yes - "Make Stuff Up" as it suits them, is how I would put it - this seems to be enabled quite deliberately, from IOs at checkpoints to immigration-offices.  There are a lot of Immigration people I have dealt with who are nice, friendly, helpful people.  I feel sorry for them being caught in such a system.

[virgomjh]

5 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

AFAIK, in the past, BKK CW would do conversions to Non-O visas for people from other areas because, at least in the past, a lot of other Immigration offices outside BKK would NOT do them.  That was the status of things on Non-O conversions for quite a long time -- apparently until this recent change.

 

Joe alluded earlier to having recently seen some feedback where that former policy/practice had changed. But Immigration sure never announced the change in any fashion that I'm aware of. And, anyone reading here for advice on the subject over any extended period most likely would have believed doing a conversion at BKK would be fine.

Thanks for that TallGuy, couldn't have put it better myself. I would only add that that the power to grant non O conversions was removed from all local offices some years ago, and until very recently you would be hard pushed to find anywhere other than Bangkok that would be able to grant it. The policy has apparently been completely reversed with a directive that only local offices can deal with this.

 

That is fair enough, but my only point is that if this is done without any public announcement, it will inevitably lead to confusion and potential loss of time and money for many people who mistakenly think that the old rules still apply.

 

13 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

Or expats could take it upon themselves to inquire at their local immigration office regarding some issue that affects them, rather than depending solely on "credible feedback"  from message boards and then traveling to Bangkok to discover that the "credible feedback" was out of date or, in some cases, "incredible."

Until recently, my friends local office did not offer the conversion service. In retrospect, perhaps he should have been super diligent and gone in to check if there had been any rule changes in recent weeks, but it is a bit harsh to suggest that he was at fault for not doing so.

 

In the absence of any official source for relatively minor changes in policy like this, expats are entirely reliant on reports from others on forums like this. Some posters feedback may not be entirely reliable, but we are all very fortunate to have the benefit on this forum of some exceptionally credible posters that have proven time and again that they can be relied upon.

 

It is inevitable that their will be some time lag between a rule change and adjustments to their advice because they are dependent on getting enough reports before they can come to any firm conclusion. It was bad luck for my friend in this case that not enough reports on the change had been posted for anyone to even flag it up. No one's fault in my view, just an inevitable consequence of the way this works.