Show some patriotism, UK minister tells broadcasters over Brexit

[billd766]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

Unfortunately you and some others keep on with the same arguments, without addressing arguments given by others. This way it is not a discussion, just one way traffic with the same arguments. If you don't want to listen to others there is no discussion.

 

Well blow me down.

 

Is that not exactly what you are doing?

[billd766]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

Unfortunately you and some others keep on with the same arguments, without addressing arguments given by others. This way it is not a discussion, just one way traffic with the same arguments. If you don't want to listen to others there is no discussion.

 

Could you not reply to my questions are is it too difficult for you?

[nauseus]

5 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

Ps Brexiteers might note that Hitler justified his coming to power on a one time simple nationalistic majority.

Proof that you can fool enough of the people for just enough time?

An invalid comparison that only proves who the fool is.  

[Retiredandhappyhere]

On 6/25/2017 at 8:10 AM, Grouse said:

I thought Leadsom was buried last year! Loathsome!

Most of what you say about the UK, its Government,  and particularly about Brexit and its supporters appears to fall into that category, according to the majority of your posts. 

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

Unfortunately you and some others keep on with the same arguments, without addressing arguments given by others. This way it is not a discussion, just one way traffic with the same arguments. If you don't want to listen to others there is no discussion.

Is that your argument?

[dick dasterdly]

On 6/25/2017 at 1:18 PM, Grouse said:

Let's clear up something

 

On the remain side, the forecast was overly negative as it turned out, in large part due to swift action by the BoE.

 

On the leave side, multiple lies were told. There is a distinct difference.

 

Right now, I sense no appetite for Brexit. Far too many other urgent matters to attend to. I suspect we may need to adopt building codes from other EU countries that are not so bent and twisted as we seem to have become.

 

 

Hang on a minute!  Didn't Osbourne promise an immediate punitive budget in the event of a 'leave' vote?  A lie, or a scare tactic?

 

Not to mention that you're defending the scare tactics used by the 'remain side' as "overly negative" - rather than outright lies.....

[Retiredandhappyhere]

5 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

"Firstly, another referendum would completely undermine our Brexit negotiations because the EU could be completely ruthless with us, knowing that the messier the potential divorce, the more likely Britain ends up reversing its decision and returning with cap in hand... a win win for the EU"

 

I suspect you already know the result!

of course a referendum would simply mean scrapping Brexit and save g a lot of time and money.

2

I see that you have already carried out your own second referendum and announced the result on here.

[Retiredandhappyhere]

5 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

"The precedent will have been set for ignoring referendum results"

 

That is already the default preference in the UK and has been as along as voting was the norm. In the UK we normally elect a parliament to debate and sort out complicated issues like this.

 

The best way to scrap Brexit will not be by referendum....parliament will throw out the negotiated settlement and UK will remain. 

It would be nice then to pass on the bill to the Brexiteers.

 

You obviously already know what the negotiated settlement will be and, not only that, you already know that Parliament will reject it.

Quite amazing!   Well done.................

and so you should be, to quote an old joke.  No offence!     

 

[dick dasterdly]

23 hours ago, Grouse said:

A year is a long time in politics

 

Check again and see what the position is now. I'll bet it's changed

 

A simple majority was a ridiculously low bar for such a major change particularly with the large numbers of poorly informed, dissatisfied people in the UK now

 

Nobody has been able to give me a clear benefit of Brexit to date.

They have, but you immediately delete those opinions from your mind as inadequate and stupid - preferring to believe that the UK was able to change EU faults..... if only they'd remained part of the EU .

 

We now know that the EU has no intention of changing any of its faults.....

[Grouse]

19 minutes ago, Retiredandhappyhere said:

Most of what you say about the UK, its Government,  and particularly about Brexit and its supporters appears to fall into that category, according to the majority of your posts. 

It gives me no joy I assure you.

[Retiredandhappyhere]

10 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Although this particular issue was long discussed, and I agree with this point, there is another implication resulting from the growing recognition (Even among some Daily Heil readers) that leaving the largest and richest free market in the world, will be a very foolish thing to do. The point is this, we elect politicians so they can react to events as they happen. We don't expect to have a referendum on whether to respond to an attack for example, and this referendum was supposed to be advisory, for a reason. Things change, our politicians are supposed to have the ability to respond to changes in the best interests of the country. We are finding out that we can probably almost all expect to be poorer if/when we leave. Do we really want that. 

Very few people who voted for Brexit expected to be better off financially straight away but they voted for it despite that due to other considerations which they felt were more compelling.

[Grouse]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

They have, but you immediately delete those opinions from your mind as inadequate and stupid - preferring to believe that the UK was able to change EU faults..... if only they'd remained part of the EU .

 

We now know that the EU has no intention of changing any of its faults.....

Watch what happens with Macron's leverage.

 

There will be different levels of EU membership

 

We will be in one of the outer orbits. A bit like Uranus.

[Grouse]

Just now, Retiredandhappyhere said:

Very few people who voted for Brexit expected to be better off financially straight away but they voted for it despite that due to other considerations which they felt were more compelling.

When are you going to give a real tangible benefit?

[Xaos]

Heres little story.

Im polish we got great patriotic young priest called Jacek Miedlar. Really great speaches he do. He was bullied by polish leftist and that.

 

Anyway he went to UK twice and was refused entry twice. 2 days ago was second time. UK border told him he got no visa even we are in EU. There was jews taking laugh out of him. Really bad story behind it. Guy didnt do anything really.

So basically UK let in muslim extremists but not polish right wing priest and calling him extremist.

 

YT him

 

 

 https://youtu.be/iTQ4fU2UW30

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Grouse]

17 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Hang on a minute!  Didn't Osbourne promise an immediate punitive budget in the event of a 'leave' vote?  A lie, or a scare tactic?

 

Not to mention that you're defending the scare tactics used by the 'remain side' as "overly negative" - rather than outright lies.....

Osborne expected a punitive budget would be required if the GBP went into free fall. Quick action by Carney headed that off at the pass.

 

What out right lies were told?

[Grouse]

Leadsom accused of being naive and daft by the BBC. Quite right too!

[dick dasterdly]

21 hours ago, Yann55 said:

 

I couldn't agree more. Patriotism is NEVER the solution and ALWAYS a problem.

 

Patriotism is the secular version of religious fundamentalism.

 

If only we were taught in school that countries are just a by-product of history, an interesting cultural item that should not be given too much importance, that being born here or there is irrelevant, that diversity is an asset and not a problem, that our neighbors are not the enemy, that whatever problems we have are the result of our own mistakes and that we should look into that before accusing foreigners ...

 

... and then I wake up, I see the faces of Trump-and-cronies, Geert Wilders, Marine Le Pen, Norbert Hofer, Mattero Salvini, Nigel Farage, Tayyip Erdogan ... and I realise that, as usual in the history of humanity, our future is behind us

Agree entirely with the first 2 paras - but you can't expect people of any nation to embrace those from poorer countries entering their country and reducing salaries as companies take advantage of the cheap labour - particularly when it reflects up the 'scale'!

[dick dasterdly]

5 hours ago, soalbundy said:

I'm not a fan of referendums anyway, MP's are elected presumably to govern in our best interests with an army of experts at their disposal while Mrs Smith of number 4 railway crossing, East Cheam, votes because she remembers something that she read in the Daily Express. A more or less 50/50 result from a referendum should be ignored.

You seriously think MPs care about 'ordinary people', rather than their own best interests??!

[rockingrobin]

4 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Agree entirely with the first 2 paras - but you can't expect people of any nation to embrace those from poorer countries entering their country and reducing salaries as companies take advantage of the cheap labour - particularly when it reflects up the 'scale'!

The Bitish had no problems in the past embracing nationals from poor countries, instead of inviting them the British enslaved them

[Retiredandhappyhere]

3 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Watch what happens with Macron's leverage.

 

There will be different levels of EU membership

 

We will be in one of the outer orbits. A bit like Uranus.

Macron achieved an outstanding result in winning the election and being able to form a majority Government and he does appear to have some promising policies for France, even if his proposed further integration within the EU does not have universal appeal.

 

However, he achieved that election victory when less than 50% of the electorate voted.  In no way does that diminish his right to form a majority Government but it does show that the French people were not entirely enthusiastic about the whole situation.   With slightly over 50% apparently undecided and/or completely disinterested in the election,  what might happen if (and probably when) the workers start to protest in the streets, possibly violently as they tend to do, when Macron attempts to introduce his planned new labour laws making it easier for employers to hire and fire?  The "missing" voters may start to influence French policies in a way which may not please the EU.

[owl sees all]

On 25/6/2560 at 0:59 PM, phutoie2 said:

Should have grown a pair. 

Well we have now! Goodbye EU!!

Edited June 26, 2017 by owl sees all

[Retiredandhappyhere]

Posted 2 minutes ago · Report post

  5 hours ago, soalbundy said:

I'm not a fan of referendums anyway, MP's are elected presumably to govern in our best interests with an army of experts at their disposal while Mrs Smith of number 4 railway crossing, East Cheam, votes because she remembers something that she read in the Daily Express. A more or less 50/50 result from a referendum should be ignored.

 

Dick Dastardly replied:

"You seriously think MPs care about 'ordinary people', rather than their own best interests??!"

 

 

 

Judging by the quality of M.P.s in recent years, along with their army of "experts", I would put my money on Mrs Smith of number 4  Railway Crossing, East Cheam any day!

 

Jeremy Corbyn seems to believe that because Mrs May failed to win an overall  majority in Parliament in the recent UK election, despite getting a substantial majority over his party, he should be given the opportunity to form a Government instead of the Tories.

 

As an aside, he also heavily criticised the Government over the Grenfell Flats disaster, even calling for all the local council members to resign, until of course he discovered that many of the other councils presiding over similar unprotected buildings were in Labour constituencies.  

 

 Like th

•  

Edited June 26, 2017 by Retiredandhappyhere
Typing error

[nauseus]

7 hours ago, stevenl said:

Sorry you don't get it.

 

I don't care about leaving or not, I care about the will of the people. And at present the will of the people is not listed to.  Democracy should be to listen to that, in stead of keep on hammering on about a vote that is clearly not the representation of what is wanted.

The only clear will of the people that is proven is the 2016 referendum result - the rest is speculation - a democratic choice was offered. So no need for you to keep hammering on about it.

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

The only clear will of the people that is proven is the 2016 referendum result - the rest is speculation - a democratic choice was offered. So no need for you to keep hammering on about it.

And if another referendum is offered, then that will be the proven clear will of the people.

[nauseus]

49 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Watch what happens with Macron's leverage.

 

There will be different levels of EU membership

 

We will be in one of the outer orbits. A bit like Uranus.

We were Mars. Then we attacked!

[Retiredandhappyhere]

2 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

And if another referendum is offered, then that will be the proven clear will of the people.

No, it would not, because with a clear precedent of a second referendum, held because some people did not like the first result,  the Brexeteers would be justified in asking for a third referendum and so on, ad infinitum.

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, Retiredandhappyhere said:

No, it would not, because with a clear precedent of a second referendum, held because some people did not like the first result,  the Brexeteers would be justified in asking for a third referendum and so on, ad infinitum.

And if the votes were there, they would get it. Nothing wrong in asking.

[nauseus]

3 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

And if another referendum is offered, then that will be the proven clear will of the people.

Ah, of course! The first referendum was a proven murky will of the people and we should adopt the EU truly democratic philosophy of vote until we get the right result. Thanks for setting that straight.

 

[Retiredandhappyhere]

2 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

And if the votes were there, they would get it. Nothing wrong in asking.

So, how many referenda would you be satisfied with ?   

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, nauseus said:

Ah, of course! The first referendum was a proven murky will of the people and we should adopt the EU truly democratic philosophy of vote until we get the right result. Thanks for setting that straight.

 

If you can find a constitutional reason to invalidate a second vote, please let me know.Invoking the evil EU is a nice shot at deflection.