Saddam Is Dead

[Jai Dee]

Important news I agree.

BUT

Do we REALLY need two threads on the subject whose relevence to Thailand is tenuous at best??

Duplicate topic merged.

[hammered]

So Saddam was found guilty by a court established under some US mandate following an illegal invasion. Two head judges were tossed at stages of the trial at the behest of the US for not following the script. At various times defence lawyers were intimidated, killed or refused access to their clients. Virtually no witness gave evidence in front of the accused. The trial has been declared unsound by various organizations. Saddam is swiftly hung well before any of the other cases can come to conclusion thereby denying the families of the victims any chance to see the accused in court.

All round a farce for justice and a farce overseen and controlled by the US. Political imperatives and revenge outweigh anything to do with justice is the message sent to the world.

Ghandi when asked what he thought of western civilization said it would be a good idea.

If we - and us Americans did control this trial behind the scenes - cannot insure a fair trial to one of our worst enemies whatever his crimes, and it seems Saddams were pretty bad, what does it say about own ideal of justice?

[Tolley]

At the end of the day SH was just another in a long line of tinpot dictators that have emerged in that part of the world.

The US needed a scapegoat after 9/11 and Saddam fitted the bill for a number of reasons most of them completely unrelated to the Twin Towers attack.

If the US had really been serious about attacking terrorism it would have invaded Pakistan or Saudi Arabia for it is those two countries that are the backbone to most of the organised terrorist activity. But they are US allies and really they were in the too hard basket.

Saddam had an established profile as a bad guy so it was very easy to sell him to a US public hel_l bent on revenge after 9/11.

People with short memories need to remember that Saddams rise to power was aided and abetted by the US government back in the early 80s.

THe US provided the chemical weapons and supported this brutal dictator in his war against Iran.

Saddam got too big for his boots and the US realised that they had helped create a monster.

Once the genie was out of the bottle it proved very hard to put him back in.

As bad as Saddam was there are many who believe that only a strong man like Saddam could control a country as divided as Iraq. The blood bath that is now Iraq bears some testament to this theory.

In reality the whole mess that is Iraq is the result of years of meddling by the US in the region in order to guarantee a cheap source of oil to fuel its own domestic economy.

Sure SH was a bad guy but there are worse guys out there and unfortunately many of them have been in previous and present US administrations.

[rainman]

If we - and us Americans did control this trial behind the scenes - cannot insure a fair trial to one of our worst enemies whatever his crimes, and it seems Saddams were pretty bad, what does it say about own ideal of justice?

But was he really one of the worst enemies of the US? How many times did Saddam invade or attack the US? Sure he had a war with Iran (and the CIA cheered him on) and invaded Kuwait (they didn't cheer so much there).

[usatrader]

So Saddam was found guilty by a court established under some US mandate following an illegal invasion. Two head judges were tossed at stages of the trial at the behest of the US for not following the script. At various times defence lawyers were intimidated, killed or refused access to their clients. Virtually no witness gave evidence in front of the accused. The trial has been declared unsound by various organizations. Saddam is swiftly hung well before any of the other cases can come to conclusion thereby denying the families of the victims any chance to see the accused in court.

All round a farce for justice and a farce overseen and controlled by the US. Political imperatives and revenge outweigh anything to do with justice is the message sent to the world.

Ghandi when asked what he thought of western civilization said it would be a good idea.

If we - and us Americans did control this trial behind the scenes - cannot insure a fair trial to one of our worst enemies whatever his crimes, and it seems Saddams were pretty bad, what does it say about own ideal of justice?

What is a cynic, a man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing? -Oscar Wilde.

More doublethink, Dronge, I think!

As Martin Luther King once said, “Justice denied anywhere diminishes justice everywhere.”

Leaving unsaid the more important mantle on which justice hangs its very existence all together. That being, WHERE THERE IS NO JUSTICE, but that of tyranny and oppression, as in Saddam’s Iraq, justice is absolutely always denied. It is by all who stand, knowing justice for themselves, but on the side disengaged in denial’s cynicism, doing nothing for those denied, that are but that which is diminished most of all in this era of me-ism*, Neo-relativism. **

The cry should not be in cynicism and one legged hyperbolic about Justice denied Saddam Hussein. Instead, in the justice granted to his victims, and or, those who would have been his victims had he not ended up where he did.

His victim’s voice of justice was not given without sacrifice of those who would not diminish themselves by standing by and doing nothing but to speak in hollowed platitudes of blame and shame, ignoring his victims, of some say 2 million, as if they were inconsequential. Yet, doing so, in the comfort of no sacrifice and in denial of their right to justice, lamenting those that gave them justice’s voice, as if they were more evil than him. Yet for merely giving justice’s opportunity to his multitudes of victim's silenced voices.

* ME-ism, the concept that in me, is me and for me, and, by me ,and, thus all about me and all else is Mai bpen rai' (ไม่เป็นไร ) '.

* *Neo-relativism judges actions relative not to the societal/cultural constructs of relativism, but to other related actions (whether of the same society/culture or not). In a nutshell, it's this idea that nothing anyone else does can be bad if somebody else, in one’s self assessment, thinks someone else is doing it as bad or even worse.

Its realm lies within the blurred lines of absolute falsity and or absolute and or universal truths. That region that assume there are but two dimension in this world. One where blaming others in false cynicism for all things is relative and true, and or the other, were blaming others in falsely created realities of hypocrisy, is relative and true. Leaving out all others possibilities all together –Trader

[Tywais]

At the end of the day SH was just another in a long line of tinpot dictators that have emerged in that part of the world.

The US needed a scapegoat after 9/11 and Saddam fitted the bill for a number of reasons most of them completely unrelated to the Twin Towers attack.

If the US had really been serious about attacking terrorism it would have invaded Pakistan or Saudi Arabia for it is those two countries that are the backbone to most of the organised terrorist activity. But they are US allies and really they were in the too hard basket.

And here I thought it was Osma Bin Laden and Afghanistan that was the scapegoat, I stand corrected.

[Tolley]

At the end of the day SH was just another in a long line of tinpot dictators that have emerged in that part of the world.

The US needed a scapegoat after 9/11 and Saddam fitted the bill for a number of reasons most of them completely unrelated to the Twin Towers attack.

If the US had really been serious about attacking terrorism it would have invaded Pakistan or Saudi Arabia for it is those two countries that are the backbone to most of the organised terrorist activity. But they are US allies and really they were in the too hard basket.

And here I thought it was Osma Bin Laden and Afghanistan that was the scapegoat, I stand corrected.

Well if the US had left it at the terrorist training camps in Afghanistan and the hunt of Bin Laden that probably would have been viewed as a reasonable response by most people but they didn't.

You must have been otherwise engaged when the case for invading Iraq was being made.

[Who, me ?]

bring bush to the same fate now.....He is another danger to the worls, far greater than was saddam.....

[usatrader]

bring bush to the same fate now.....He is another danger to the worls, far greater than was saddam.....

* ME-ism, the concept that in me, is me and for me, and, by me ,and, thus all about me and all else is Mai bpen rai' (ไม่เป็นไร ) '.

* *Neo-relativism judges actions relative not to the societal/cultural constructs of relativism, but to other related actions (whether of the same society/culture or not).

In a nutshell, it's this idea that nothing anyone else does can be bad if somebody else, in one’s self assessment, thinks someone else is doing it as bad or even worse.

Its realm lies within the blurred lines of absolute falsity and or absolute and or universal truths. That region that assume there are but two dimension in this world. One where blaming others in false cynicism for all things is relative and true, and or the other, were blaming others in falsely created realities of hypocrisy, is relative and true. Leaving out all others possibilities all together –Trader

[Who, me ?]

bring bush to the same fate now.....He is another danger to the worls, far greater than was saddam.....

* ME-ism, the concept that in me, is me and for me, and, by me ,and, thus all about me and all else is Mai bpen rai' (ไม่เป็นไร ) '.

* *Neo-relativism judges actions relative not to the societal/cultural constructs of relativism, but to other related actions (whether of the same society/culture or not).

In a nutshell, it's this idea that nothing anyone else does can be bad if somebody else, in one’s self assessment, thinks someone else is doing it as bad or even worse.

Its realm lies within the blurred lines of absolute falsity and or absolute and or universal truths. That region that assume there are but two dimension in this world. One where blaming others in false cynicism for all things is relative and true, and or the other, were blaming others in falsely created realities of hypocrisy, is relative and true. Leaving out all others possibilities all together –Trader

so what ???

[usatrader]

bring bush to the same fate now.....He is another danger to the worls, far greater than was saddam.....

* ME-ism, the concept that in me, is me and for me, and, by me ,and, thus all about me and all else is Mai bpen rai' (ไม่เป็นไร ) '.

* *Neo-relativism judges actions relative not to the societal/cultural constructs of relativism, but to other related actions (whether of the same society/culture or not).

In a nutshell, it's this idea that nothing anyone else does can be bad if somebody else, in one’s self assessment, thinks someone else is doing it as bad or even worse.

Its realm lies within the blurred lines of absolute falsity and or absolute and or universal truths. That region that assume there are but two dimension in this world. One where blaming others in false cynicism for all things is relative and true, and or the other, were blaming others in falsely created realities of hypocrisy, is relative and true. Leaving out all others possibilities all together –Trader

so what ???

[royar2002]

Sad story. Is Iraq better now? I rather see Mr. Bush whit a rope around his neck and Saddam will be a martyr. Another clever thing from USA

[booma]

Does anyuone know where I can find the full video?

Thanks in advance

B

[Buckwheat]

Try here....cellphone video

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7532034279766935521

[Robski]

Saddam was becoming too powerful before Gulf War 1. The US stamps on any regional influence that is not of it's own making.

The thinking that this boils down to his propensity for murder and oppression shows that you are buying in to the media promoted reasoning of his demise.

He was influencing other middle eastern countries, his countries infrastructure was a model to all aspiring nations, he wanted to trade Iraqi oil in Euros.

In the eyes of the US he had to go.

He has been demonised to serve the purpose of history.

Job done. The price for US hegemony? A ######ed up world.

Edited December 31, 2006 by Robski

[NukRukDee]

I suppose Rahyumdee that you see black helicopters in the middle of the night and you know that the CIA is making you impotent through the beams they send through your microwave oven. And you see people lurking behind every bush....

Typical smart-ass, brain-washed dumbsh!t. Doesn't do his homework, then swaggers up to his keyboard and pecks out an imbecilic remark.

Please, just put me on ignore. The likes of you don't deserve my generosity...

[Naam]

bring bush to the same fate now.....He is another danger to the worls, far greater than was saddam.....

unfortunately another two years and eight days till he is history.

[NukRukDee]

Pretty good article on rense.com by someone who's not easily fooled either:

More Bush Chicanery? Saddam's Double Hanged?

CAUTION: This is only for thinking people. So, those of you out there who don't qualify, -- and you know who you are -- don't sweat it.......

[kayo]

Thinking people, as you put it, make up their own minds and are not blindly following any opinions, be they Bush or Rense, or anybody else.

You have yet to show you are capable of thought, NukRukDee.

[NukRukDee]

bring bush to the same fate now.....He is another danger to the worls, far greater than was saddam.....

It wouldn't make any difference even if it had a snowball's chance on a Bangkok sidewalk in April.

He's not in charge. No modern-day U.S President is in charge. They take their marching orders from the New World Order secret global gov't. If they don't adhere to "the agenda", they're "gone" (as witnessed by what happened to JFK).

Even Clinton admitted this once by saying that,

''... by the time you become President [of the United States], someone else is already making the decisions..."

(if you don't believe me, look it up. Again, this is ONLY for thinking people...)

Edited December 31, 2006 by NukRukDee

[NukRukDee]

Thinking people, as you put it, make up their own minds and are not blindly following any opinions, be they Bush or Rense, or anybody else.

You have yet to show you are capable of thought, NukRukDee.

Look at the evidence. I have.

It takes time to investigate and study the evidence. That is not "blindly following opinions", as you say.

Then, of course, one makes up one's own mind and shares what one has discovered, be it right or wrong.

What planet are you from?

[britmaveric]

[farangsay]

Thinking people, as you put it, make up their own minds and are not blindly following any opinions, be they Bush or Rense, or anybody else.

You have yet to show you are capable of thought, NukRukDee.

Look at the evidence. I have.

It takes time to investigate and study the evidence. That is not "blindly following opinions", as you say.

Then, of course, one makes up one's own mind and shares what one has discovered, be it right or wrong.

What planet are you from?

Don't tell him Kayo.

Might be better if he doen't know where you live.

[kayo]

Thinking people, as you put it, make up their own minds and are not blindly following any opinions, be they Bush or Rense, or anybody else.

You have yet to show you are capable of thought, NukRukDee.

Look at the evidence. I have.

It takes time to investigate and study the evidence. That is not "blindly following opinions", as you say.

Then, of course, one makes up one's own mind and shares what one has discovered, be it right or wrong.

What planet are you from?

Farangsay, If I told him what planet I really am from, he might not believe me and end up looking in the Nevada desert.

NukRukDee, ... yet you still don't show any capacity for independent thought. I think another, clearer way of putting it, is by saying "MAKE UP YOUR OWN MIND".

You're right. It takes time to watch some uni student's home made masterpiece on you tube and then click the handy links right next to the vdo that all carry tags like "conspiracy... etc...".

Have you gone out into the field yourself? Have you researched these things yourself? Have any of the people putting up your "sources of information" done so?

THAT is what takes time. Have you analyzed Saddam's DNA?

Have you analyzed the Hanging Man's DNA?

No! you haven't have you? Admit it!

So ...

Of course maybe recognizing you have not yet mastered this art of FACT FINDING might make you feel defensive. That's ok. It's a natural human reaction. But the sooner you admit it, the better you'll feel. I haven't mastered it either. But then, I'm not found spouting other peoples "dubious" facts and proclaiming it Holy Truth.

All you are doing is spouting other peoples <deleted>.

Effectively, you are doing for some bored uni students, what FOX news does for the Bush Gov't. Repeating what you are told.

So, that's cool. Each to their own. Personally, I choose to not watch Fox news, cos I really dislike the administration running things and I severely dislike the puppet masters who (and here I agree with you) are running things. And imagine how worked up I get when I do accidentaly see a FOX broadcast. I'm then gonna go and find other like minded people on youtube or whatever and get even more worked up about it?

You must be joking! I'm off to a quiet island in Thailand to relax and get away from the news.

Or put another way... The whole US gov't pisses me off so much I found it unhealthy. And so once upon a time, I made a decision to NOT let it get me down. They don't deserve my hatred.

Only those I love, can I truly hate.

EDIT: STOP PRESS! Wait!

I'm just gonna put that whole rant into another phrase:

I can understand why you like what you hear from alternate sources of info. I really can.

I dig a lot of it too. All i'm trying to say, is don't believe everything you read, just cos it is pleasing.

Cos there's always more than meets the eye. There's always half as much that makes less sense than should. And that applies to gov't media, as well as alternative sources. Different sides of the game, but the same game nonetheless.

That's all i really meant.

Edited December 31, 2006 by kayo

[Boon Mee]

Dear Saddam,

I hear you are not going to be with us to celebrate the New Year. I was saddened to hear of your sudden change of plans and a pressing need on your part to attend a special party in your honor this weekend.

I wish you well in this new enterprise you are about to embark upon. I am sure you will prove to be as successful in this new project as you have been in the past. We will go ahead with the New Years parties as planned but it just won’t be the same without you.

Drop us a line whenever you can, old pal. Come back and hang out with us whenever you can.

Boon Mee

[kayo]

I heard he was going to join us... But he got Hung up!

[Griffin]

Good. The only bad thing was he was hung for one of his lesser crimes.

I look forward to more of them going to the gallows.

[Boon Mee]

Saddam drew his path to he11 a long time ago..."he chose this fate the day he chose cruelty and oppression as a way to deal with his people. He built his reign with blood and terror and vowed to make death the fate of anyone who dared say no to him.

Saddam lost his humanity the day he committed his first crime, so the one I saw walking to the rope this morning was no man to me.

It was him who rejected humanity to become the monster that the weak feared and prayed to see him dead for years to be safe from his crimes.

...To those who didn’t like justice I say that his death means life to many.

Executing the dictator renews the hopes of not only Iraqis but also of other oppressed peoples in the world in having a better future where they enjoy freedom. It’s time for other tyrants to learn from this lesson and realize that a similar fate is on the way if they refuse to change.

Yes, it was the people though [sic]their elected government who put Saddam on trial and who says otherwise should go back and learn about how Saddam humiliated, murdered and tortured Iraqis and plundered their fortunes in his stupid adventures.

He deserved to die—our people are still suffering from his crimes till this moment, maybe not in person anymore but through the murderous terrorist machine he built and expanded over years; his orphans are still murdering our people in cold blood trying to deny us the right to build a model of life away from the culture of death the dictator created."

Edited December 31, 2006 by Boon Mee

[Artfullmover]

Sadam was a piece of work and no doubt in violation of human rights. As he was taken down by a coalition of governments and tried under the pretence of human rights should he had have some human rights as well. He should have been tried and punished under international law not Iraqi law. This was all DONE WRONG. What would happen to Mr Bush if he was summoned to appear in court in one of the countrys he authorised military action like Iraq were the United nations DID NOT suport military action. There was none of this hero stuff the USA is made famous for "RETURN FIRE IF FIRED APON" just a full on attack with the killings of inocents including women and children. Should he recieve the death penality under Iraqi law. I think thats a given. One could possibly give it some merit if the truth was Sadam was proven to have weapons of mass destruction and intent to use them. North Korea now has them and has said it will use them if threatend. Hows Mr Bush going to now take them out. If he dont do that what will Iraq's neighbors ( The ones that will no doubt control Iraq once the coalition pulls out) develope to defend themselfs. Nukes for sure after all its working for North Korea.

This is a clasic example of the why resons why the major players of Thailand are now strenghting there ties with China.

Edited December 31, 2006 by Artfullmover

[JacknDanny]

Saddam drew his path to he11 a long time ago..."he chose this fate the day he chose cruelty and oppression as a way to deal with his people. He built his reign with blood and terror and vowed to make death the fate of anyone who dared say no to him.

Saddam lost his humanity the day he committed his first crime, so the one I saw walking to the rope this morning was no man to me.

It was him who rejected humanity to become the monster that the weak feared and prayed to see him dead for years to be safe from his crimes.

...To those who didn’t like justice I say that his death means life to many.

Executing the dictator renews the hopes of not only Iraqis but also of other oppressed peoples in the world in having a better future where they enjoy freedom. It’s time for other tyrants to learn from this lesson and realize that a similar fate is on the way if they refuse to change.

Yes, it was the people though [sic]their elected government who put Saddam on trial and who says otherwise should go back and learn about how Saddam humiliated, murdered and tortured Iraqis and plundered their fortunes in his stupid adventures.

He deserved to die—our people are still suffering from his crimes till this moment, maybe not in person anymore but through the murderous terrorist machine he built and expanded over years; his orphans are still murdering our people in cold blood trying to deny us the right to build a model of life away from the culture of death the dictator created."

I agree wholeheartedly with the above.

However I have just seen the events just prior to his actual execution, with the guards mocking him, calling him names and winding him up taunting him.

There was no whimpering or crying from him. He was defiant to the end. I hated the bastard, but at least he was a man to the end