Thai police spokesman says Belgian tourist died from suffocation

[sandrabbit]

10 minutes ago, Bigdogfarang said:

Easily explained I don't want to post the whole theory again here - but short version - suicidal girl left for mainland in a terrible mental state - Got off at ko toa on a whim - stayed at guesthouse took sleeinng pill overdoes - knocked over lamp started fire - this brought her round and she fled - bought ticket to Bkk but a day later suicidal thoughts returned - goes into jungle and hangs herself - third attempt first was trying to jump in front of a train and was saved - put yourself in the mind of a tortured soul who contemplating suicide and all her actions make sense .. police delay release of story and try to suppress it as last thing they need is another ko Tao farang death reported end of story 

I see the points you are making, the 'guru' said she came on retreat before she went on 6 months holiday to New Zealand. I  understand that some people like to do a Hindu/Buddhist retreat thing but it seems like she might have had some mental problems and needed some support and did this instead of seeing a professional councilor.

[Lupatria]

If one hangs himself, what is more likely to die from a broken neck or suffocation?

[TEFLKrabi]

If the hanging scenario is so clear cut why did they cremate the body?

[sandrabbit]

8 minutes ago, Lupatria said:

If one hangs himself, what is more likely to die from a broken neck or suffocation?

suicide is suffocation, judicial is broken neck and maybe the head coming off a lah Saddam.  

[Krenjai]

What about this version? Girl decides to go home after traveling abroad for a very long time, buys ticket to BKK, but before going home wants to spend a few days in Koh Tao. Fire at the resort, caused by a candle, petrol whatever. Need another place to stay, goes to Tanote Bay by motorcycle taxi, it is the middle of the night. Her ticket was burned/lost in the fire so she buys new one. Wants to pick up her luggage next day but it was loaded on the ferry by mistake due to chaos with the fire. The motorcycle taxi driver who drove her to Tanote Bay or whoever spots the good looking farang girl goes back the next day for some action. She refuses, he strangles her and makes it look like a suicide. Police covers up, they don't want another suspicious death, come up with a previous suicide attempt in front of a train, and an obscure sect guru. 

 

This version is as ridiculous as any other speculation. We will just NEVER know, that is very likely the outcome of this case. 

[Lamar]

"The deputy spokesman of the Royal Thai Police said forensic examination of the Belgian tourist showed she died from suffocation, indicating she took her own life." Incorrect reasoning: this is compatible with the hypothesis of a suicide, BUT ALSO with the hypothesis of a murder by strangulation! There have been many strangulation murders all over the world!

 

My purpose is not to argue in favor of this second hypothesis but to emphasize that it can not be so easily swept away and that the reasoning that "death by suffocation = suicide" is not correct.

 

One can also (again) keep in memory that in the annals of criminal cases in this country there have been many instances of suspicion that dead by hanging are in fact crimes disguised as suicides; There is at least one proven case, when a victim escaped hanging over a highway bridge because, fortunately, the rope broke!

This is also reminiscent of Sean McAnna's allegations that two people threatened to hang him in the forest and disguise this as a suicide.

It will also be remembered that in some criminal cases it happened that the bodies of the victims were burnt at the place of execution to prevent their identification; This was particularly the case for the mass grave discovered last year near Udon Thani.

 

Before jumping to either conclusion, there should be publicly and openly verifiable evidence!

 

 

[bannork]

1 minute ago, Lupatria said:

If one hangs himself, what is more likely to die from a broken neck or suffocation?

To hang  from a broken neck requires considerable skill and experience.

[Krenjai]

4 minutes ago, Lamar said:

Before jumping to either conclusion, there should be publicly and openly verifiable evidence!

 

 

There should be....correct! Problem however they (RTP) had a two month head start to sweep anything under the carpet that does not fit the suicide scenario 

[bannork]

4 minutes ago, Lamar said:

"The deputy spokesman of the Royal Thai Police said forensic examination of the Belgian tourist showed she died from suffocation, indicating she took her own life." Incorrect reasoning: this is compatible with the hypothesis of a suicide, BUT ALSO with the hypothesis of a murder by strangulation! There have been many strangulation murders all over the world!

 

My purpose is not to argue in favor of this second hypothesis but to emphasize that it can not be so easily swept away and that the reasoning that "death by suffocation = suicide" is not correct.

 

One can also (again) keep in memory that in the annals of criminal cases in this country there have been many instances of suspicion that dead by hanging are in fact crimes disguised as suicides; There is at least one proven case, when a victim escaped hanging over a highway bridge because, fortunately, the rope broke!

This is also reminiscent of Sean McAnna's allegations that two people threatened to hang him in the forest and disguise this as a suicide.

It will also be remembered that in some criminal cases it happened that the bodies of the victims were burnt at the place of execution to prevent their identification; This was particularly the case for the mass grave discovered last year near Udon Thani.

 

Before jumping to either conclusion, there should be publicly and openly verifiable evidence!

 

 

Looking at the place where she was found dead, it is clearly totally unsuitable to hang someone there as the victim could clearly reach the rocks with her legs if she intended. 

To suffocate her would require force that would surely show up in an autopsy. Yet no signs of assault were found.

[sandrabbit]

5 minutes ago, Krenjai said:

There should be....correct! Problem however they (RTP) had a two month head start to sweep anything under the carpet that does not fit the suicide scenario 

agreed and sorry to go back to the B2 it has to be credible.

[fxe1200]

3 hours ago, rockingrobin said:

Elise was identified by dental records

Where did they have the dental records from, and when, before she was cremated or after? Did the mother of Elise Dallemagne provided the police with those records?

 

[The Deerhunter]

Died of suffocation? A non-judicial hanging either self inflicted or not will do just that.  Judicial hangings are meant to cause C2/C3 fracture dislocation as well as suffocation.  Strangulation murderers sometimes try to fake a suicide hanging to cover their crime. The marks of bruising from the various forms of suffocation and strangulation  or lack if them hould tell an experienced pathologist whether they were inflicted by the hanging or another means such as manual strangulation, or even if they occurred before the hanging.  Either way, it is yet another sad end to a probably decent and promising life. She has obviously had a troubled time in her recent past and thought she was through it at one recent point.  Poor girl.  Very sad.  How tragic for the family whatever the mode of death.  If murder we hope they can find and punish him.

[Lamar]

7 minutes ago, bannork said:

Looking at the place where she was found dead, it is clearly totally unsuitable to hang someone there as the victim could clearly reach the rocks with her legs if she intended. 

To suffocate her would require force that would surely show up in an autopsy. Yet no signs of assault were found.

Right! But if it's difficult to hang someone at this place (because her legs will reach the rocks), then it seems also to hang herself, for the same oblivious reason.

The force exercised necessary for causing suffocation is the same whether exercised by voluntary hanging or by a third party.

If the victim is taken by surprise, for example assaulted from behind (as often in cases of strangulation), this will leave no trace of assault other than the strangulation itself.

[fxe1200]

Now the Bangkok police is coming to the rescue by saying, that Elise tried to kill herself in Bangkok already, but was saved from jumping in front of a train. The "Guru" Raaman Andreas  is now linked to the/murder/suicide. He is wanted for questioning, but he left the country already. I would do exactly the same: leaving the country immediately, before being tortured forced into confession and ending up like the B2. Good decision.

[tukkytuktuk]

How long has the cult been on Phangan?

[bannork]

5 minutes ago, fxe1200 said:

Now the Bangkok police is coming to the rescue by saying, that Elise tried to kill herself in Bangkok already, but was saved from jumping in front of a train. The "Guru" Raaman Andreas  is now linked to the/murder/suicide. He is wanted for questioning, but he left the country already. I would do exactly the same: leaving the country immediately, before being tortured forced into confession and ending up like the B2. Good decision.

Didn't he leave 2 months ago, well before any of this broke? 

[tukkytuktuk]

Creepy looking dude Raaman Andreas.

 

[oldlakey]

2 hours ago, Dibbler said:

Forensic investigation is a gaping hole in the Thai police training programme. If they want to know the truth (?) they'll need to invite Dr Pornthip to take the case, and I doubt she is high on their list of people to call.  

That explains it then, a gaping hole now I know where a lot more stuff went

[phantomfiddler]

How could she have hanged herself and subsequently be eaten by a large lizard ? Did the lizard leap up and take bites, or did the unfortunate girl let herself down and lay on the rocks after she had hung herself ? This has to be the weirdest chain of events ever recorded !

[sandrabbit]

7 minutes ago, tukkytuktuk said:

Creepy looking dude Raaman Andreas.

 

post your picture and let us judge you .............

[ThaiWai]

4 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

but suffocation is one of the easier ways without showing body assault.

Bullcrap.  Petechial hemorrhaging, ligature marks, fingernail scrapings all the first things to look for and easy to find.

[ThaiWai]

39 minutes ago, Lamar said:

Right! But if it's difficult to hang someone at this place (because her legs will reach the rocks), then it seems also to hang herself, for the same oblivious reason.

The force exercised necessary for causing suffocation is the same whether exercised by voluntary hanging or by a third party.

If the victim is taken by surprise, for example assaulted from behind (as often in cases of strangulation), this will leave no trace of assault other than the strangulation itself.

Bullcrap.  You can hang yourself seated on the floor.

[tukkytuktuk]

18 minutes ago, sandrabbit said:

post your picture and let us judge you .............

 

[ThaiWai]

4 hours ago, dake333 said:

No traces of assault evidence?. Wasn't she partially eaten by a large lizard?

What exactly are you saying?  You wanna charge the lizard with assault?  Roaches, rats even cats and dogs will often dine on found corpses, a trained investigator can easily identify the differences between post mortem animal feasting and assault injuries.

[bannork]

22 minutes ago, tukkytuktuk said:

Creepy looking dude Raaman Andreas.

 

It's a good number if you can set yourself up as a guru. Always lots of beautiful girls casting  upward admiring glances at your wonderful ego less self.

[bannork]

5 minutes ago, tukkytuktuk said:

 

Brian! Where have you been?

[tukkytuktuk]

Reminds me of the Bhuddafield cult. Young, intelligent people brainwashed and manipulated by a charismatic leader.

[tukkytuktuk]

1 minute ago, bannork said:

Brian! Where have you been?

Posting on another forum.

[nasanews]

Even though she had previous attempts of suicide, I still like to see the last question asked concerning her mysterious death to be answered rationally.

Keep up the good work in all suspicious death cases to come.

[ThaiWai]

1 hour ago, bannork said:

Elise had  2 post-mortems  and was cremated with officials present from the Belgian embassy.

DAMNED FACTS!!  Always ruining the conspiracy fun!