Donald Trump Jr. hires lawyer for Russia probes

ddavidovsky · July 13, 2017

Hysteria over nothing. Just people desperately dishing dirt. That's politics.

The only important issue here is what inside information exactly did the Russians on HC have and how did they get it?

Best way to find that out is to cosy up to them and find out what they've got, which is what Jr did. That would help close the security loophole. He could argue it was in America's best interests.

FritsSikkink · July 13, 2017

2 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

Hysteria over nothing. Just people desperately dishing dirt. That's politics.

The only important issue here is what inside information exactly did the Russians on HC have and how did they get it?

Best way to find that out is to cosy up to them and find out what they've got, which is what Jr did. That would help close the security loophole. He could argue it was in America's best interests.

Dream on:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/12/did-donald-trump-jr-commit-treason-break-law-met-russian-lawyer/

iReason · July 13, 2017

Exclusive: Video shows Trump with associates tied to email controversy

"The video, obtained by CNN in the wake of the email disclosures, offers fresh insights into the warm relationship between Trump and the Agalarovs, which has been widely reported because Aras Agalarov and Emin Agalarov inked a multi-million dollar deal with Trump to bring the Miss Universe pageant to Moscow in 2013."

"Goldstone, who is also seen in the video talking with Trump, claimed in the 2016 emails that damaging information against Hillary Clinton surfaced after a meeting between someone Goldstone described as "the Crown prosecutor of Russia" and Aras Agalarov, an Azerbaijani-Russian billionaire with ties to Russian President Vladimir Putin."

"The next day, Trump lavishes praise on the Agalarovs at the Miss USA 2013 red carpet, calling them "the most powerful people in all of Russia."

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/07/12/politics/video-trump-relationships-russian-associates/index.html

One big happy family.

Thakkar · July 13, 2017

2 hours ago, stevenl said:

I don't think he needs a criminal lawyer, no way treason or something similar can be proven.

What this does prove though is that the Trump camp has been lying time and time again about their intentions and about their contacts with the Russians.

Agreed. The evidence, based on what's publicly known, is still thin. The only angle so far is campaign finance laws that prohibit in-kind contributions "of value". The Trump camp, while finally now acknowledging meetings with Russian government connected people who promised damaging Clinton info, still claim they received no such info. The meetings themselves *may* be enough to indict but probably not enough to successfully prosecute.

Still, a lot of meetings, with a lot of shady Russians, and a lot of lies and denials and non-disclosures of those meetings. As Dahlia Lithwick of Slate said:

"As 'nothing burgers' go, this one looks like a whopper."

Watch the *countless* times Trump and his team denied any collusion or ties with Russia pic.twitter.com/eLlZ7rhvRO

— NowThis (@nowthisnews) July 11, 2017

Also, as yet we don't know what Mueller knows or is working on. We don't know if Flynn or Roger Stone (maybe Manaford) will flip. Since Trump is still Prez. they may not flip if they believe Trump will pardon them.

The investigations will go on for a long time by the looks of it.

That's why Trump's immediate concern is the press who are doing solid investigative reporting. This is why Trump keeps attacking the press and its credibly, avoids press conferences as much as possible and why WH press briefings are now off camera.

T

Thakkar · July 13, 2017

2 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

As I posted in another thread. You need to do better research regarding this lawyer, and Chaika.

The Russian lawyer does have connections to the Russian government. Perhaps nothing took place, but the intent was there. Along with the lies. Which is what will get all these people in trouble. Hopefully.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/12/who-is-natalia-veselnitskaya-low-level-lawyer-or-kremlin-power-broker

Chaika definitely has connections to the "Evil Empire". LOL

Lookie here, what a coincidence! But then coincidences are common in the small circles of mob-connected former casino magnates, money launderers and their lawyers.

For years, she has been a lawyer for the Katsyv family, whose patriarch, Pyotr D. Katsyv, was minister of transportation of the Moscow region for more than a decade, and whose son was caught up in the New York money laundering case.

The family’s trust in Ms. Veselnitskaya was rewarded in May, when she helped Denis P. Katsyv, Pyotr’s son, fight the money laundering claims in New York brought by the Manhattan federal prosecutor at the time, Preet Bharara. Mr. Bharara tangled with Ms. Veselnitskaya several times and protested at one point that she had been charging the government for a $995-a-night room at the Plaza Hotel.

The case was settled two months after Mr. Bharara was dismissed by President Trump.

"U.S. settles Russia money-laundering case"

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-crime-prevezon-idUSKBN18904I

T

iReason · July 13, 2017

22 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

Hysteria over nothing. Just people desperately dishing dirt.

The only important issue here is what inside information exactly did the Russians on HC have and how did they get it?

Best way to find that out is to cosy up to them and find out what they've got, which is what Jr did.

That would help close the security loophole. He could argue it was in America's best interests.

"He could argue it was in America's best interests."

The only hysteria (and ridiculous spin) is coming from you.

The occupier of the White House’ son, who along with a senior adviser to his father and a Russian connected soon to be campaign manager, has confirmed they met with an agent from a hostile foreign adversary in secret.

"That would help close the security loophole"

Right.

Agent Clouseau Jr. was on the case.

What happened was a textbook case for calling the F.B.I.

Your spin is the best one to come out so far...

Edited July 13, 2017 by iReason

Thakkar · July 13, 2017

24 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

Hysteria over nothing. Just people desperately dishing dirt. That's politics.

The only important issue here is what inside information exactly did the Russians on HC have and how did they get it?

Best way to find that out is to cosy up to them and find out what they've got, which is what Jr did. That would help close the security loophole. He could argue it was in America's best interests.

Don Jr., the master spy. SAving America from Russian meddling by pretending to take part in the meddling on his father's behalf.

I love it!

T

ddavidovsky · July 13, 2017

7 minutes ago, iReason said:

"He could argue it was in America's best interests."

The only hysteria (and ridiculous spin) is coming from you.

The occupier of the White House’ son, who along with a senior adviser to his father and a Russian connected soon to be campaign manager, has confirmed they met with an agent from a hostile foreign adversary in secret.

"That would help close the security loophole"

Right.

Agent Clouseau Jr. was on the case.

What happened was a textbook case for calling the F.B.I.

Your spin is the best one to come out so far...

I'm totally objective. I view the world from a cloud. What I see is hysteria calculated to discredit the Trump administration.

Russia is not a 'hostile foreign adversary'. That's paranoia. Communism is long dead. There is no territorial contention - no conflict at all between Russia and the US. The 'hostility' is concocted for political purposes, such as this.

The FBI would have told Jr to cosy up to the Russians and get the information. If there is a security loophole, this is the best way to discover it. Funnily enough, that actually isn't spin, but quite a serious point.

Spin that.

Thakkar · July 13, 2017

1 minute ago, ddavidovsky said:

I'm totally objective. I view the world from a cloud. What I see is hysteria calculated to discredit the Trump administration.

Russia is not a 'hostile foreign adversary'. That's paranoia. Communism is long dead. There is no territorial contention - no conflict at all between Russia and the US. The 'hostility' is concocted for political purposes, such as this.

The FBI would have told Jr to cosy up to the Russians and get the information. If there is a security loophole, this is the best way to discover it. Funnily enough, that actually isn't spin, but quite a serious point.

Spin that.

"I'm totally objective. I view the world from a cloud"

Cloud 9?

T

Berkshire · July 13, 2017

4 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

I'm totally objective. I view the world from a cloud. What I see is hysteria calculated to discredit the Trump administration.

Russia is not a 'hostile foreign adversary'. That's paranoia. Communism is long dead. There is no territorial contention - no conflict at all between Russia and the US. The 'hostility' is concocted for political purposes, such as this.

The FBI would have told Jr to cosy up to the Russians and get the information. If there is a security loophole, this is the best way to discover it. Funnily enough, that actually isn't spin, but quite a serious point.

Spin that.

"Totally objective"....?? Man, at least be honest about it, you're definitely not objective. You do know that the US has sanctions on Russia? Not just for election interference, but Crimea and Ukraine. And for human rights violations. And that Russia has been interfering in EU elections. And that Russia has been propping up Assad in Syria. Etc. Even Mitt Romney, a Republican, just last December said Russia is "our number-one geopolitical foe." So yes, Russia is a "hostile foreign adversary."

iReason · July 13, 2017

6 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

I view the world from a cloud.

What I see is hysteria calculated to discredit the Trump administration.

Russia is not a 'hostile foreign adversary'.

There is no territorial contention - no conflict at all between Russia and the US.

The 'hostility' is concocted for political purposes, such as this.

Yawn.

I submit, you view the world from within a cloud.

"Russia is not a 'hostile foreign adversary'.

"There is no territorial contention - no conflict at all between Russia and the US."

Read much?

Assessing Russian Activities and Intentions in Recent US Elections

Key Judgments:

"We assess Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the US presidential election."

"Russia’s goals were to undermine public faith in the US democratic process, denigrate Secretary Clinton,

and harm her electability and potential presidency."

"We further assess Putin and the Russian Government developed a clear preference for President-elect Trump."

https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ICA_2017_01.pdf

Obama expels 35 Russian diplomats in retaliation for US election hacking

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/29/barack-obama-sanctions-russia-election-hack

ddavidovsky · July 13, 2017

4 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

"Totally objective"....?? Man, at least be honest about it, you're definitely not objective. You do know that the US has sanctions on Russia? Not just for election interference, but Crimea and Ukraine. And for human rights violations. And that Russia has been interfering in EU elections. And that Russia has been propping up Assad in Syria. Etc. Even Mitt Romney, a Republican, just last December said Russia is "our number-one geopolitical foe." So yes, Russia is a "hostile foreign adversary."

Those are all politically concocted foreign policy issues - creating an enemy for domestic consumption because it stokes pride and galvanises the nation. Don't be fooled. Crimea and Ukraine, by the way, is none of the US's business as it involves ethnic Russians.

So that's what this is really about about - misguided paranoia about Russia? Oh and the faux moral outrage because obviously there are never any dirty tricks in American politics.

craigt3365 · July 13, 2017

17 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

Russia is not a 'hostile foreign adversary'. That's paranoia. Communism is long dead. There is no territorial contention - no conflict at all between Russia and the US. The 'hostility' is concocted for political purposes, such as this.

Russia is a 'hostile foreign adversary' according to many countries. You must be living in a cloud. LOL

From the UK government:

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/coping-with-russia

Quote

Defence Secretary Sir Michael Fallon speaking about Russia at St Andrews University.

.........

And above all we must not accept as any kind of new normal Russia’s propaganda, whether overt or covert; its easy disregard for hard facts and numbers; or its blatant distortions and evasions.

On the contrary, we must continue calling Russia out on its activities, judging it on its deeds rather than words. As Bulgakov warned us: “The tongue may hide the truth but they eyes – never.”

P.S. this isn't about communism. LOL

craigt3365 · July 13, 2017

2 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

Those are all politically concocted foreign policy issues - creating an enemy for domestic consumption because it stokes pride and galvanises the nation. Don't be fooled. Crimea and Ukraine, by the way, is none of the US's business as it involves ethnic Russians.

So that's what this is really about about - misguided paranoia about Russia? Oh and the faux moral outrage because obviously there are never any dirty tricks in American politics.

Politically connected? Tell that to those who've died defending their country against Russian aggression in Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova, etc, etc.

Not political at all. It's a power grab by Putin. And don't be fooled, Ukraine is a sovereign country. Not part of Russia. If the ethnic Russians there don't like it, they can move. Ukraine won't stop them.

Let's get back to Trump Jr.

ddavidovsky · July 13, 2017

18 minutes ago, Thakkar said:

"I'm totally objective. I view the world from a cloud"

Cloud 9?

T

No, that's next door. Some old guy with a white beard is on it.

I see you've run out of spin. Really, we should be asking exactly what the Russians had on Clinton that could influence an election? Rather worrying, no? The American people ought to know. And of course, the security agencies need to know where the security loophole is and this would have been the best way to find out. Not to deny, of course, that Jr had personal advantage in mind, just pointing out that argument could be made that trying to get the information may have been in America's best interests. It's actually impossible to deny.

Thakkar · July 13, 2017

3 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

No, that's next door. Some old guy with a white beard is on it.

I see you've run out of spin. Really, we should be asking exactly what the Russians had on Clinton that could influence an election? Rather worrying, no? The American people ought to know. And of course, the security agencies need to know where the security loophole is and this would have been the best way to find out. Not to deny, of course, that Jr had personal advantage in mind, just pointing out that argument could be made that trying to get the information may have been in America's best interests. It's actually impossible to deny.

Sorry, I was wrong. Looks like it's much higher than that.

Cloud 99?

T

ddavidovsky · July 13, 2017

9 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Russia is a 'hostile foreign adversary' according to many countries. You must be living in a cloud. LOL

From the UK government:

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/coping-with-russia

P.S. this isn't about communism. LOL

It's about paranoia. Which is a throwback to communism. The UK is also infected by it. Fallon's speech is full of paranoid speculation and misguided interference with an underlying political agenda. The Russian 'problem' is chimerical. Remove that from the Trump issue and the hysteria loses most of its steam.

craigt3365 · July 13, 2017

4 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

It's about paranoia. Which is a throwback to communism. The UK is also infected by it. Fallon's speech is full of paranoid speculation and misguided interference with an underlying political agenda. The Russian 'problem' is chimerical. Remove that from the Trump issue and the hysteria loses most of its steam.

Can we get back to the topic at hand? Trump Jr, lawyer, etc.

Thakkar · July 13, 2017

15 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

It's about paranoia. Which is a throwback to communism. The UK is also infected by it. Fallon's speech is full of paranoid speculation and misguided interference with an underlying political agenda. The Russian 'problem' is chimerical. Remove that from the Trump issue and the hysteria loses most of its steam.

"Fish are friends"

"He's really a nice guy"

iReason · July 13, 2017

Kushner under fire for role in meeting after Trump Jr. email release

"Kushner initially omitted the interaction with Veselnitskaya on his application for a security clearance,

but included the meeting on a supplemental form."

"The emails with Donald Trump Jr. about the Russian meeting were discovered as Kushner and his legal team prepared for his testimony before Congress as they were doing a document review, a source familiar with the process told CNN."

"As soon as the document was discovered, Kushner's disclosure form was amended to include the meeting, the source said."

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/07/12/politics/kushner-trump-jr-russia-email-chain/index.html

A Senior Adviser to The White House neglects to include a clandestine meeting with an agent of a long time adversarial foreign power on his Security Clearance form?

It's a safe bet that Special Counsel Mueller will be looking into that...

Edited July 13, 2017 by iReason

simple1 · July 13, 2017

19 minutes ago, iReason said:

Kushner under fire for role in meeting after Trump Jr. email release

"Kushner initially omitted the interaction with Veselnitskaya on his application for a security clearance,

but included the meeting on a supplemental form."

"The emails with Donald Trump Jr. about the Russian meeting were discovered as Kushner and his legal team prepared for his testimony before Congress as they were doing a document review, a source familiar with the process told CNN."

"As soon as the document was discovered, Kushner's disclosure form was amended to include the meeting, the source said."

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/07/12/politics/kushner-trump-jr-russia-email-chain/index.html

A Senior Adviser to The White House neglects to include a clandestine meeting with an agent of a long time adversarial foreign power on his Security Clearance form?

It's a safe bet that Special Counsel Mueller will be looking into that...

Kushner had initially omitted all of his meetings with foreign nationals from his SF-86, the questionnaire all applicants for national security clearances must fill out.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/kushner-security-clearance-amendment-russia-lawyer-meeting-bombshell

ilostmypassword · July 13, 2017

1 hour ago, ddavidovsky said:

It's about paranoia. Which is a throwback to communism. The UK is also infected by it. Fallon's speech is full of paranoid speculation and misguided interference with an underlying political agenda. The Russian 'problem' is chimerical. Remove that from the Trump issue and the hysteria loses most of its steam.

You mean before Communism there was no such thing as political paranoia?

Grubster · July 13, 2017

2 hours ago, ddavidovsky said:

Hysteria over nothing. Just people desperately dishing dirt. That's politics.

The only important issue here is what inside information exactly did the Russians on HC have and how did they get it?

Best way to find that out is to cosy up to them and find out what they've got, which is what Jr did. That would help close the security loophole. He could argue it was in America's best interests.

You may very well be right, that is why there is an investigation ongoing, this investigation is into any and all US citizens or politicians that may have been involved in some way with the Russians to undermine our elections, this includes Hillary Clinton and the DNC. it is not only about Trump, his family or his election team. So far I guess Trump Jr is the only figure to seek a high end defense attorney. Sure makes me wonder why. Can you imagine what would happen to an investigator that made something up in this high of a case. These investigators will make millions of dollars regardless if they find anything or not. I for one hope they find nothing but I don't want them to leave a stone unturned. It amazes me that those people that think any possible collusion with the Russians should just be ignored are the same people that were adamant about getting to the bottom of a presidents sex life, I don't think the Lady involved in that was a threat to US security, but Putin's Russia sure is.

Grubster · July 13, 2017

19 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

You mean before Communism there was no such thing as political paranoia?

The most paranoid period of US history was in the fifties when communism was the absolute devil. I don't think the communists felt nearly as strong about democracy. I have to apologies as I cannot see any connection with this story and communism either. Lets just hope justice is served in this very important investigation.

Thakkar · July 13, 2017

1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said:

You mean before Communism there was no such thing as political paranoia?

Don't believe the Lyin' Constantinople Times. Attila the Hun is our friend!

T

Grubster · July 13, 2017

6 minutes ago, Thakkar said:

Don't believe the Lyin' Constantinople Times. Attila the Hun is our friend!

T

I never believe anything said on Fox news unless verified, but I sure do like watching it. Funny stuff Man. How they keep a straight face I don't know. They have to be laughing their asses off in the back room.

Thakkar · July 13, 2017

11 minutes ago, Grubster said:

I never believe anything said on Fox news unless verified, but I sure do like watching it. Funny stuff Man. How they keep a straight face I don't know. They have to be laughing their asses off in the back room.

It's all the Botox.

T

Grubster · July 13, 2017

3 minutes ago, Thakkar said:

It's all the Botox.

T

Lipstick on a pig.

Thakkar · July 13, 2017

1 minute ago, Grubster said:

Lipstick on a pig.

I just imagined them laughing in the back rooms as you mentioned. In my mind their faces looked exactly as on-camera, but their bodies shook convulsively. Spilled my drink, so thanks for nothing.

T

iReason · July 13, 2017

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