Open a business just for obtaining a visa.

[Henderson]

Hello,

I am under 40 years old, I don't actually need or want to work in Thailand (I live on dividends of past deals which are sufficient for me to live comfortably), I own a condo and a car and I am just looking for a way to live in the country without constantly worrying about having a visa and all the fear associated with it.

Thai Elite visa for 20 years is a great solution but I currently can't pay 1mil Baht in 1 payment, I would do it immediately if they offered to do it in 10 payments but 1mil up front is very hard for me to do at this point.

In this case the only option I have would be to open a business, so my question is this: what is the total cost of running a business which has 0 deals (let's assume I'll send emails to companies but they will want nothing to do with my shitty services)

Thai Elite or this option are both ways to buy a visa, it's just a question of what is the less costly option.

* If anyone here knows of a simpler option, please kindly share, thank you very much.

 

[ubonjoe]

There is also a 5 year Thai Elite membership for 500k baht. See: http://www.thailandelite.com/#/at-your-service/card/elite-easy-access-membership

By the time you pay for 4 Thai employees needed for a work permit and yourself a salary I can easily see the annual cost to be well above 100k baht a year. And that does not include all the accounting fees and etc needed.

[elviajero]

55 minutes ago, Henderson said:

In this case the only option I have would be to open a business,

Forget it. Starting a business is expensive and bureaucratically unpractical.

[blackcab]

You main problem is that immigration won't keep giving you extensions if you work for a company that has no visible signs of commercial activity.

 

It's perfectly ok to work for a company that does not make a profit, as long as immigration can see taxes being paid and evidence of business taking place.

 

Each year you have to supply a full set of audited accounts, plus details of assets, profit or loss and taxes paid.

[seancbk]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

There is also a 5 year Thai Elite membership for 500k baht. See: http://www.thailandelite.com/#/at-your-service/card/elite-easy-access-membership

By the time you pay for 4 Thai employees needed for a work permit and yourself a salary I can easily see the annual cost to be well above 100k baht a year. And that does not include all the accounting fees and etc needed.

Except that a company potentially makes money and allows the person to stay for 10, 20, or more years.

500K for 5 years is great, but what do you do after 5 years?   I've been here for 8+ years so I'd be onto my second 5 year Thai Elite by now.   

It might make sense if you could actually stay in Thailand without leaving for 5 years, but you still have to leave every 90 days (afaik) which means you are still paying for international flights, hotels etc.  The only thing you save on are visa fees and presumably not being accused of working, although you could easily also be working on a Thai Elite visa.

 

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, seancbk said:

It might make sense if you could actually stay in Thailand without leaving for 5 years, but you still have to leave every 90 days (afaik) which means you are still paying for international flights, hotels etc.

They started issuing five year multiple entry visas almost 5 years ago that allows a one year entry every time and if the holder does not leave they can apply for a one year extension of stay.

[seancbk]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

They started issuing five year multiple entry visas almost 5 years ago that allows a one year entry every time and if the holder does not leave they can apply for a one year extension of stay.

 I stand corrected.  The only person I know who has the 5 year Thai Elite (got it maybe 1 year ago) leaves every 90 days.  Will have to ask him why.

 

[12DrinkMore]

1 minute ago, seancbk said:

leaves every 90 days.  Will have to ask him why.

If he's like me, then he needs a regular break from Thailand.

 

And possibly from his g/f as well.

 

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, seancbk said:

 I stand corrected.  The only person I know who has the 5 year Thai Elite (got it maybe 1 year ago) leaves every 90 days.  Will have to ask him why.

Perhaps he was a member of Thai Elite before they started the new PE visa and still is getting the SE visa that only allows 90 day entries that can be extended for 90 days if the don't leave the country. Some people changed their lifetime membership to 20 years to get the PE visa so they could get one year entries.

[seancbk]

Just now, ubonjoe said:

6 minutes ago, seancbk said:

 I stand corrected.  The only person I know who has the 5 year Thai Elite (got it maybe 1 year ago) leaves every 90 days.  Will have to ask him why.

Perhaps he was a member of Thai Elite before they started the new PE visa and still is getting the SE visa that only allows 90 day entries that can be extended for 90 days if the don't leave the country. Some people changed their lifetime membership to 20 years to get the PE visa so they could get one year entries.

Yes that could be it.  Certainly sounds like a possible reason.

I still think that if you have a good business plan and a product that will sell in Thailand, that going the company route is a better option.  Depends a lot on the person, their age, their business experience and a whole slew of other factors.   Personally I'd rather build a business with the 500K than just use it to pay for a 5 year visa.   

 

[sanemax]

24 minutes ago, seancbk said:

but you still have to leave every 90 days (afaik) which means you are still paying for international flights, hotels etc.  

Just go to the nearest border by bus and come straight back again

[Henderson]

Thank you all for your answers.

If I go for the Elite it will be the 20 years because the yearly cost isn't much and seems fair.

I think that the 5 years cost way too much per year and is not suitable for me personally.

So opening a company is out of the question so how about this idea?

"work" for a company for the minimum salary required by law, never actually collect the salaries or actually do any work except send emails to companies which again, will never want anything to do with our services.

Pay the tax on the salaries and work permit from my own pocket and pay a fee to the company that employs me.

Will that work?

I'm running out of ideas now that a guy who had too many tourist visas got detained in the airport.

Thx.

 

 

[YetAnother]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

There is also a 5 year Thai Elite membership for 500k baht. See: http://www.thailandelite.com/#/at-your-service/card/elite-easy-access-membership

By the time you pay for 4 Thai employees needed for a work permit and yourself a salary I can easily see the annual cost to be well above 100k baht a year. And that does not include all the accounting fees and etc needed.

very practical; insights needed here

[sanemax]

2 minutes ago, Henderson said:

"work" for a company for the minimum salary required by law, never actually collect the salaries or actually do any work except send emails to companies which again, will never want anything to do with our services.

Pay the tax on the salaries and work permit from my own pocket and pay a fee to the company that employs me.

Will that work?

You are asking about ways to circum navigate or even break laws ?

[Henderson]

31 minutes ago, sanemax said:

You are asking about ways to circum navigate or even break laws ?

No, I don't ask for ways to break any laws, I am simply asking for a way to work within the framework of these laws but as they are handled and understood in real life and not on paper.

For example, to obtain a retirement visa, on paper the applicant must show 800,000 Baht in his bank account, well, we all know that many people who don't have this amount still get the visa by choosing another path to the same goal.

All I am asking is a similar solution for people like me who are less than 50, who don't want/can't pay 1mil baht cash for the Thai Elite visa and all they want is to live and spend their money in Thailand while not taking a single Baht from any Thai person.

[blackcab]

58 minutes ago, Henderson said:

Thank you all for your answers.

If I go for the Elite it will be the 20 years because the yearly cost isn't much and seems fair.

I think that the 5 years cost way too much per year and is not suitable for me personally.

So opening a company is out of the question so how about this idea?

"work" for a company for the minimum salary required by law, never actually collect the salaries or actually do any work except send emails to companies which again, will never want anything to do with our services.

Pay the tax on the salaries and work permit from my own pocket and pay a fee to the company that employs me.

Will that work?

I'm running out of ideas now that a guy who had too many tourist visas got detained in the airport.

Thx.

 

 

 

Yes, it probably would, but I think you underestimate the hassle it would be for the business.

 

Hassle = cost.

Edited July 18, 2017 by blackcab

[blorg]

Henderson, I don't think it's a goer, as @blackcab says besides the cost of the tax there would be an administrative/hassle cost for the company involved.

 

There is one company I am aware of, Iglu, which will employ you and get you a work permit on the basis that you bring your own clients to them and then bill through them. They take 30% and pay your taxes/social security and take their cut out of that. Minimum bill is $2,500/month so that would be 1m THB a year and you would pay them 300,000 THB/year.

 

If I were in your position and presuming you have not done it already I would look at Education visa options.

[sanemax]

17 minutes ago, Henderson said:

No, I don't ask for ways to break any laws, I am simply asking for a way to work within the framework of these laws but as they are handled and understood in real life and not on paper.

For example, to obtain a retirement visa, on paper the applicant must show 800,000 Baht in his bank account, well, we all know that many people who don't have this amount still get the visa by choosing another path to the same goal.

All I am asking is a similar solution for people like me who are less than 50, who don't want/can't pay 1mil baht cash for the Thai Elite visa and all they want is to live and spend their money in Thailand while not taking a single Baht from any Thai person.

You re asking about how to obtain a business visa , when you are not entitled to one .

  You have even suggested a deception , by pretending to work for a company , paying tax on a salary that you will not receive

   As I am in the same position as you, you can still stay here on tourist visas

[cracker1]

In Samui there are many bars closed for many months. I am told that foreigners own a lot of these bars with Thai Company structures in place. They presumably employ (on paper) the required number of Thai people and possibly pay them a small monthly salary throughout the year.

They open the business in the High Season for 2 or 3 months and either make a profit or loss that satisfy's the Tax man and the Immigration office.

Perhaps this is how a foreign Business owner can be permitted to stay a long time in Thailand ?

[Farangland]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

You re asking about how to obtain a business visa , when you are not entitled to one .

  You have even suggested a deception , by pretending to work for a company , paying tax on a salary that you will not receive

   As I am in the same position as you, you can still stay here on tourist visas

Hi guys,

I'm exactly in same position. My money comes from my country and I like living here.

Maybe in the future planning to make business ( still trying to find what to do) but meanwhile, I would like not to have issues at inmigration every time  I go for visa run. 

When I need to leave Thailand ( every 3 months, due to my nationality) I go and visit neighbouring for a couple of weeks, and then I come back and have a new visa exempt entry stamp.

Why you Sanemax are so sure to say you can stay here on tourists visas? Aren't you concerned from last detentions?

[tonray]

[perthperson]

1 hour ago, Henderson said:

For example, to obtain a retirement visa, on paper the applicant must show 800,000 Baht in his bank account

Wrong -- !  

 

A visa/extension of stay based on retirement  can legally be obtained without having 800K in the bank. 

 

I will not bother to explain the detail as you do not yet qualify ............................

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, Henderson said:

how about this idea?

"work" for a company for the minimum salary required by law, never actually collect the salaries or actually do any work except send emails to companies which again, will never want anything to do with our services.

Pay the tax on the salaries and work permit from my own pocket and pay a fee to the company that employs me.

Will that work?

A handful of people do that. It usually requires that you have a friendship with a Thai business owner. No random business wants to involve themselves with the hassle unless you have actual skills you can offer them, such as a few hours consulting a month in an area you are an expert.

[perthperson]

9 minutes ago, Farangland said:

When I need to leave Thailand ( every 3 months, due to my nationality) I go and visit neighbouring for a couple of weeks, and then I come back and have a new visa exempt entry stamp.

Take care ---  Repeated visa exempt entries gained via a Bi-Lateral agreement can/will attract attention from immigration. 

[meom]

A bit far fetched but can't you take a loan of one million with your condo as collateral, buy the 20 year elite visa and pay of the loan in one year.

[greenchair]

Why don't you get an education visa and go study part time. 

There must be something you'd like to learn. 

[Farangland]

2 minutes ago, perthperson said:

Take care ---  Repeated visa exempt entries gained via a Bi-Lateral agreement can/will attract attention from immigration. 

You think is better to apply for a tourist visa? Does make sense to apply for one month visa and extensions, when with the exempt entry I got three months in a row? What will Thai consulate think about this?

Somewhere I have read on tourists/exempt visa entries you are allowed to stay no more than 180 days per year.

But at the same time, Sanemax is advising you to stay under tourist visa???

[perthperson]

2 minutes ago, Farangland said:

You think is better to apply for a tourist visa?

 

I make no claims about knowing how to live, long term  in Thailand using tourist visa/visa exempt entries. 

 

You must determine what is best for you. 

[sanemax]

27 minutes ago, Farangland said:

 

Why you Sanemax are so sure to say you can stay here on tourists visas? Aren't you concerned from last detentions?

I ve been here for seven years on tourists visas, although with the current clampdowns, that may be coming to an end

    This will be my last tourist visa, Im off somewhere else

Not because of the visa situation though, I just need a change 

[Farangland]

1 minute ago, perthperson said:

 

I make no claims about knowing how to live, long term  in Thailand using tourist visa/visa exempt entries. 

 

You must determine what is best for you. 

So why have you advised me to take care? Has happened something to you or just wondering?