How Much Sin-sod Did You Pay?

[elle]

elle, one thing you forget not every thai lady is the same, nor are there families. If sinsot worked for you than I am happy for you, however the next couple it might not be necessary.

I do know that not every body is the same, and nore is a farang.

There are always two sides of a coin. If one thinks it is not neccessary to pay, and it's okay for his/her other half, then it's fine. The most important thing is that the couple is happily married.

I just personally dislike the idea of some people who think it's a scam while it's not.

[Donz]

elle, one thing you forget not every thai lady is the same, nor are there families. If sinsot worked for you than I am happy for you, however the next couple it might not be necessary.

I do know that not every body is the same, and nore is a farang.

There are always two sides of a coin. If one thinks it is not neccessary to pay, and it's okay for his/her other half, then it's fine. The most important thing is that the couple is happily married.

I just personally dislike the idea of some people who think it's a scam while it's not.

SOme people just think everything Thai is a scam. They could go down to the local bread shop buying bread and still think there getting scammed.

[Richard W]

If the bride's parents are dead and there is no clear equivalent, whom should sin sot be paid to?

[old wanderer]

Elle:

I has amazed me also that so many farrang on the board are so insensitive. Thanks you for speaking out.

My Suay (Thai) wife from Surin was really upset when I read some of the comments by those that posted.

Choke dee mak mak

[teacup]

It varies from family to family with their own values and believes.

I can tell you that this part of thai culture is not uniformly practiced by all thai families.

[britmaveric]

So I can tell you that this part of thai culture is not uniformly practiced by all thai families.

Well put teacup..... there is a common misconception that sinsot is a requirement.

[Bruce1]

Very interesting, especially from Elle and Teacup, whose situations are obviously quite different.

So is it fair to conclude that sin sot survives mainly in poorer families, but is not considered necessary if the wife's parents are well off?

[cdnvic]

Very interesting, especially from Elle and Teacup, whose situations are obviously quite different.

So is it fair to conclude that sin sot survives mainly in poorer families, but is not considered necessary if the wife's parents are well off?

Sometimes it may be more important for a wealthy family to have at least a show of a large sin-sot to maintain their status.

[Thaddeus]

I feel sorry for those women who ended up with those who consider sin sot a scam. Those girls hurted their parents, and trust me, it will disturbs them for the rest of their life as they did not do what a good daughter should do.

Sin sod doesn't need to be a big amount. It depends on the agreement between the family and the groom. If it is too high for you, you can make it low. Your wife to be is the best person to help you talking to the parents or she even could help paying for the sin sod as many Thais also do so. No parents want to hurt their daughters and will do what is proper for her.

If you still think sin sot is a complete scam, or unwillingly pay for it, don't bother to marry a Thai woman at all.

Elle

That has to be the most rational post about this subject that I have ever read.

One thing that the Bangkok society have forgotten is that they have become overtly westernised, one thing that you shouldn't see at a traditional Thai marriage is a tuxedo.

If you want to marry in Thailand, respect the culture, respect the beliefs and order a large amount of string.... having a three tier cake with miniature bride and groom stuck on top is so western it's sickening to see here.

It boils down to two options.

Get married in a big hotel in Bangkok, he wears pinstripe or black, she wears white, cut a cake, drink Champagne, accept presents from guests, make a few speeches, have a boogie to some 60's disco music and laugh at the drunk uncles...... sin sot never mentioned.

Or do it properly.

(is that better Moss? )

[Neeranam]

QUOTE(SanukJoe @ 2007-01-03 17:52:14)

I don't think you have to live there to know about culture and social life.

Agreed. So many farangs living in Thailand for such a long time and can't even grasp the simple meaning of the word "farang"! It really has amazed me!

And I have never lived in Thailand.

Yeah, right.

[Heng]

elle, one thing you forget not every thai lady is the same, nor are there families. If sinsot worked for you than I am happy for you, however the next couple it might not be necessary.

I do know that not every body is the same, and nore is a farang.

There are always two sides of a coin. If one thinks it is not neccessary to pay, and it's okay for his/her other half, then it's fine. The most important thing is that the couple is happily married.

I just personally dislike the idea of some people who think it's a scam while it's not.

Unfortunately for many foreigners, it IS a scam. There are Thais out there who want to harpoon a whale ...and then gut and sell off every single ounce of fat, oil, and bone. There are Thais out there that have double and triple standards: for instance they might return the sin sot to a fellow Thai but not to a farang. There are Thais that are embarrassed to have their sons or daughters have a wedding ceremony with a foreigner at all... in which case many folks get to skip this whole sin sot thing altogether. For many foreigners who are unfortunate enough to settle down with locals of this sort, it's understandable that they might not want to insult their own husbands, wives, families, and finally themselves for sealing their own fates, but instead choose to insult the entire culture and move the blame away from themselves somewhat.

I find it amusing when those same folks -those who believe it to be a scam- attempt to normalize it by trying to describe it as a scam (or archaic, illogical, whatever...) for EVERYONE else: for all foreigners and Thais included, often quite passionately with apparent anger and frustration. For those folks, I'd say, 'yes, it may indeed have been a scam for YOU or someone you know, but certainly not for everyone.'

[Neeranam]

I am an Isaan woman who got married to my beloved farang hubby.

Sin sot...very interesting debate. I am very very thankful to Joe as he has spoken out for us, Isaan people. Sin sot is not a scam. . You aren't asked to pay for a sin sod because you are a farang. Sin sot tradition has long been existed before you were born. We did not create a sin sot to rib off farangs.

Elle - would a Thai man have given your parents 300,000 baht and never asked for anything in return?

Should man give a divorced woman's family a 'sin sot'?

Do you give your parents a monthly income too?

Edited January 4, 2007 by Neeranam

[KireB]

@ Joe,

Sorry mate, wasn't meant so personal!

Let's have a beer!

BTW I'm Dutch aswell and miss the homeland and the culture mak mak!

[JimsKnight]

If you love your woman you will do what is necessary and in the tradition of HER country where you want to stay. On top, I'm divorced too, are divorced people second class?

Read the topic "sin sot" in general topics, very well written, maybe you understand the meaning of it after reading it.

Sin sot is not like paying money for a cow, it is a tradition and has nothing to do with buying a woman or putting her value in money.

If you would value your wife in money, would you dare to name a number? A good woman is by no means valued in money, they are far beyond that, but a lot of macho men think they value a woman by the amount of money they would spend on them, might be good for bargirls, but not for real women!

Joe

Yes they are second class according to Thai people.Never heard of one Thai person ever paying a sin sot if they married a divorced woman with kids etc. On;ly farangs would pay this IMO,which is fine if that's what they want to do.

I'll back that too. You shouldn't pay a dime / penny or peanut to the family. If you are taking on any thai girl! Giving money to the family can be a very murky prospect. Yes there are good but there are also bad who will take your cash and smile like the thais smile but not give it back!

If you give Sin-Sod you must ensure they know that it goes straight back into your pocket at the end of the day. The chances are 9 times out of 10 that you'll have to support the wife anyway and typically she usually has kids too so theres more baggage.

When will the falang get it into their thick heads that the notion of chivalry / gentleman to the girl at all costs is not respected here!

This is not Europe or the USA, when in Rome do as the Romans do!

A good friend of mine married a thai lady and she is HiSo. Not a penny was required from him in Sin-Sod.

[cdnvic]

Get married in a big hotel in Bangkok, he wears pinstripe or black, she wears white, cut a cake, drink Champagne, accept presents from guests, make a few speeches, have a boogie to some 60's disco music and laugh at the drunk uncles...... sin sot never mentioned.

Or do it properly.

Or, do what makes the two of you happy. That's the only "proper" wedding.

[Thaddeus]

Get married in a big hotel in Bangkok, he wears pinstripe or black, she wears white, cut a cake, drink Champagne, accept presents from guests, make a few speeches, have a boogie to some 60's disco music and laugh at the drunk uncles...... sin sot never mentioned.

Or do it properly.

Or, do what makes the two of you happy. That's the only "proper" wedding.

Indeed...... that is the most important thing.

But if you want to have a traditional Thai wedding, the sin sot, the discussions about it before-hand should be conducted in the time honoured manner.

[autonomous_unit]

We met in the US and remained there while my wife finished her doctorate. We had the absolute minimum civil marriage ceremony in a judge's chambers and never gave either of our families a wedding or reception. I am not the autonomous unit by chance...

I am not certain whether there would have been one of those symbolic sin sots if we had done a wedding party in Thailand. I suspect my mother-in-law would have felt too much peer pressure to just ignore it. Of my wife's Thai friends from a similar background (overseas scholars who married foreigners), I think the only ones who did sin sot did it for fun as part of a full-scale Thai wedding day and it was returned to the couple.

I did travel to meet her parents before we married, and the topics of conversation (via translation) were relatively simple:

1. Q: "what is your religion?" A: "none" Response: "good!" (look of relief that I wasn't out to "convert" their daughter like on T.V.)

2. Q: "is it true westerners do not care about their parents?" A: more involved explanation of retirement funds, social security, etc. and how my parents sought to put me into the world to be self-sufficient rather than to support them. Response: thoughtful consideration that such a system also makes sense and does not mean we do not care about our parents.

3. Q: "have you eaten?" A: irrelevant. Response: food thrust upon me. OK, maybe this topic came up more than once...

[Neeranam]

The chances are 9 times out of 10 that you'll have to support the wife anyway and typically she usually has kids too so theres more baggage.

The typical Thai marrying a farang has kids?

I'd say if you are older with no hair and say 'sanook' or 'poong' more than once an hour, or ever say 'ting tong' there is a pretty good chance she'll have kids.

In fact if you ever hear a girl say 'ting tong' the games already been given away - beware!

Edited January 4, 2007 by Neeranam

[Donz]

Im sure you have all paid it.

No need to lie, if you are lying to impress the Donz with your manhood then its not working.

Just admit you paid your sin sot and stop being ashamed of it

[cdnvic]

Im sure you have all paid it.

No need to lie, if you are lying to impress the Donz with your manhood then its not working.

Just admit you paid your sin sot and stop being ashamed of it

You know, acting like a retard in every thread gets old after a while.

[Mossfinn]

In response to my earlier post I would suggest it was a little regrettable in content, although not in substance.

Prejudice in all its forms have always been anathema to me, whether it is race, religion, creed or colour and this constant decrying of the Isaan girl as a second class citizen, made my temperature rise, something I should not have allowed it to do.

Rudeness in all its manifestations, is almost on a level with prejudice and should be consigned to the scrap heap, for rudeness I apologise.

Captain Moneyshot, my dark days are well documented on this forum and thank you for reminding me of them, although I would suggest that pulling yourself together earlier is a little too easy a statement to make.

All things black, may need a catalyst, a spur and/or a major change in direction, my catalyst was going to Thailand, the spur meeting my wife and the change, well thats pretty obvious.

I hope you will be pleased to know that the dark days are a long way behind now.

Ah, what was this all about, Sin Sot.

You either agree with it or you don't, you either agree with tradition or you don't, you either think it's right or you don't.

For those that agree to it and have it paid back at the end, well that obviously works for you, for those that do not even discuss it and just have the parents say, 'Just look after my daughter', thats sounds even better, depending on your point of view.

But as several have stated, surely the best way is what you and your wife agree and what the pair of you think is most suited and to a secondary degree, the parents.

I paid it, not a substantial amount in my terms, but I owed them a debt of gratitude and was pleased to help them in some way from a level of, what I considered to be, a poor financial footing.

And I am all for tradition, when I understand it and agree with it that is.

Good Luck

Moss

[JacknDanny]

If you love your woman you will do what is necessary and in the tradition of HER country where you want to stay. On top, I'm divorced too, are divorced people second class?

Read the topic "sin sot" in general topics, very well written, maybe you understand the meaning of it after reading it.

Sin sot is not like paying money for a cow, it is a tradition and has nothing to do with buying a woman or putting her value in money.

If you would value your wife in money, would you dare to name a number? A good woman is by no means valued in money, they are far beyond that, but a lot of macho men think they value a woman by the amount of money they would spend on them, might be good for bargirls, but not for real women!

Joe

Yes they are second class according to Thai people.Never heard of one Thai person ever paying a sin sot if they married a divorced woman with kids etc. On;ly farangs would pay this IMO,which is fine if that's what they want to do.

I'll back that too. You shouldn't pay a dime / penny or peanut to the family. If you are taking on any thai girl! Giving money to the family can be a very murky prospect. Yes there are good but there are also bad who will take your cash and smile like the thais smile but not give it back!

If you give Sin-Sod you must ensure they know that it goes straight back into your pocket at the end of the day. The chances are 9 times out of 10 that you'll have to support the wife anyway and typically she usually has kids too so theres more baggage.

When will the falang get it into their thick heads that the notion of chivalry / gentleman to the girl at all costs is not respected here!

This is not Europe or the USA, when in Rome do as the Romans do!

A good friend of mine married a thai lady and she is HiSo. Not a penny was required from him in Sin-Sod.

With the greatest of respect, that is the biggest load of bulls#it that I have seen on here for a long time.

I dont know if you are posting it in order to get a response or you are really feeling that way. Its not even worth arguing your dim witted remarks

[SanukJoe]

If you love your woman you will do what is necessary and in the tradition of HER country where you want to stay. On top, I'm divorced too, are divorced people second class?

Read the topic "sin sot" in general topics, very well written, maybe you understand the meaning of it after reading it.

Sin sot is not like paying money for a cow, it is a tradition and has nothing to do with buying a woman or putting her value in money.

If you would value your wife in money, would you dare to name a number? A good woman is by no means valued in money, they are far beyond that, but a lot of macho men think they value a woman by the amount of money they would spend on them, might be good for bargirls, but not for real women!

Joe

Yes they are second class according to Thai people.Never heard of one Thai person ever paying a sin sot if they married a divorced woman with kids etc. On;ly farangs would pay this IMO,which is fine if that's what they want to do.

I'll back that too. You shouldn't pay a dime / penny or peanut to the family. If you are taking on any thai girl! Giving money to the family can be a very murky prospect. Yes there are good but there are also bad who will take your cash and smile like the thais smile but not give it back!

If you give Sin-Sod you must ensure they know that it goes straight back into your pocket at the end of the day. The chances are 9 times out of 10 that you'll have to support the wife anyway and typically she usually has kids too so theres more baggage.

When will the falang get it into their thick heads that the notion of chivalry / gentleman to the girl at all costs is not respected here!

This is not Europe or the USA, when in Rome do as the Romans do!

A good friend of mine married a thai lady and she is HiSo. Not a penny was required from him in Sin-Sod.

With the greatest of respect, that is the biggest load of bulls#it that I have seen on here for a long time.

I dont know if you are posting it in order to get a response or you are really feeling that way. Its not even worth arguing your dim witted remarks

I second that!

What a crap some people can produce here. Did he say: When in Rome live like the Romans? I say: When in Thailand live like the Thais. Thais pay sim sot, at least the majority of them. If you don't like thai culture and traditions, move on, you're a guest here, guests behave or leave.

Joe

[SanukJoe]

I really can't believe what is happening with this thread.

The question is: how much sin sot did you pay?

So it's not: how stupid are you to pay or how clever are you not to pay?

Irrelevant, those who paid (and admit) did that won a voluntary basis and are happy with it, one way or the other.

No need for ever so critising farangs with no respect for the culture of the country they live in to insult the people who followed thai culture.

As has been said: if you don't want to pay, don't pay. As a thai female poster said: if you don't like thai culture go home.

Cheers

Joe

[Mid]

for interests sake Joe ,

am I still a guest when I employ staff and pay tax ?

also , are you not surposted to treat your guests with respect ?

[rcm]

for interests sake Joe ,

am I still a guest when I employ staff and pay tax ?

Yes, what makes you think that you are not?

also , are you not surposted to treat your guests with respect ?

You will be paid respect , if you earn it.....

[SanukJoe]

for interests sake Joe ,

am I still a guest when I employ staff and pay tax ?

also , are you not surposted to treat your guests with respect ?

Yes, as long as you don't have the thai nationality you are a guest in this country. Answer the question: can they order me to leave the country? Yes they can. So you're a guest. Nothing against guests, of course not, and if you employ staff you do something for the economy and employment too, hat off.

Respect for guests: of course. I have not met one Thai who did not have respect for me, like I have respect for them. Simple.

[Mid]

don't know of too many 'guests' who pay tax !!

[SanukJoe]

don't know of too many 'guests' who pay tax !!

This one is on you

[JacknDanny]

don't know of too many 'guests' who pay tax !!

Enjoy, your stay in Thailand (if in fact you are here)

You will go far with that attitude