Young boy dies in hospital waiting room "because he had to wait"

[tryasimight]

On ‎22‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 8:16 PM, petermik said:

Thats where proper training comes in.........had they known...........he should have been checked out properly when he was admitted/assessed

You've never lost a 'patient'?

 

Easy to be an expert after the fact.

 

There may have been a whining farang in the hospital who demanded his ingrown toenail was a higher priority, and put on a song and dance at how the peasant farmer son should wait while he got treatment because said farang had 3 thousand baht to flash around.

 

My point is...we will never know. Nobody wants to see a kid die and in the age of social media it is so easy to point fingers and try and blame people who may have tried their best.

 

I work in the electrical game and have to do CPR training regularly. The guys who train us are realists...been there and done that. CPR looks easy and works on TV. In the real world the outcome can be very different, made even worse by the corpse you are working on was a workmate.

 

Edited July 23, 2017 by tryasimight

[Nitandom]

À few months ago I was taken to SuAndok emergency room for a severe chest pain at 6 pm. Within an hour they have down all investigations perfectly: EKG, echo EKG, blood test and Ct scan and found a MI and that 2 stents should be fixed in a coronary artery.They have also found a cardiologist at RAM hospital who accept to come back from home and can put the stents half an hour later, because the angiography in SuAndok didn't work.

Can anyone believes that I had to wait 4,5 hours more just because  none of the doctors there wanted to respond to sign the official documents to free me out!

 If I don't have Thai friend who fighted with them for me, they would have let me dye, just doing nothing !!!

On the top of that when the cardiologist in Ram hospital open my file from SuAndok he found......nothing  but  the medical report saying I need 2 stents ! I was already unconscious but my friend told me he was really angry not to have the images of the Ct scan that shows where to put the stents  being obliged to work as a blind (his words)

I had the stents fixed 7,5 hours after my heart attack

Normaly it should be done within 6 hours 

Suandok free me out 6.5 hours after it

It is just criminal !!! And those in charge that day should not be allowed to approach a patient anymore 

My heart muscle have been seriously damaged and will never recover completely but I am still very lucky to be alive and I am very grateful to Dr Patharapong in Ram who took the risk to surgery me on that day and saved my life 

He is a geat professional and a great man

[mommysboy]

25 minutes ago, Grubster said:

There are many things that are not urgent that could cause this pain, you ever had a kidney stone. Until emergency nurses can do a cat scan with their eyes there will be those who fall through the cracks of a fair system. I have been in many emergency rooms where there were several in acute pain including me. Most times I was there I was working as I did a lot of work for hospitals. Maybe you should have the job of deciding when to send the next patient in and then you could see that that is not an easy call to make.

 

Blimey! I wouldn't want you around in an emergency!

 

Seriously, we don't know because of less than comprehensive facts, but it appears the boy died in agony in an ER department without being examined.  I don't think anyone sensible is blaming the staff, but rather scotching the idea that all should be assumed to be fine. 

 

I agree no system can be perfect and providing protocols have been followed then an investigation will clear all involved.

 

 

Edited July 23, 2017 by mommysboy

[Prbkk]

15 minutes ago, Grubster said:

And you can tell how much paid a child is in? I have seen many act like they are in the process of having their head sawed off when they hurt their finger. And that is not nonsense, again you need that job so you could be the man who decides. Bad pain may be urgent every time in some western hospitals as they do not have people waiting for emergency care like they do here.

Western ERs are overwhelmed by drunks, druggies, thugs, hoons, assorted low-life (and their victims)presenting with cuts, abrasions, bruises, wounds stemming from accidents, brawls, assaults. Sometimes people with legitimate , urgent needs die in the waiting room before they are seen ( and it's usually those who are accepting of the need to queue or don't/can't articulate their symptoms), as in the cases in Australia of a young man found dead in a waiting room chair because the triage staff assumed he was asleep , or the Canadian guy who wasn't seen by a doctor for 34 hours . There are dozens of cases.

Someone made the point: it would have been better for this boy to arrive by ambulance. True, but some people don't have the resources and in any case it can be slower.

This is a tragic case and one that should be thoroughly investigated to determine if there has been a failure of care. , not just a simple "sad but shit happens" response

Edited July 23, 2017 by Prbkk

[mommysboy]

6 minutes ago, Prbkk said:

Western ERs are overwhelmed by drunks, druggies, thugs, hoons, assorted low-life (and their victims)presenting with cuts, abrasions, bruises, wounds stemming from accidents, brawls, assaults. Sometimes people with legitimate , urgent needs die in the waiting room before they are seen ( and it's usually those who are accepting of the need to queue or don't/can't articulate their symptoms), as in the cases in Australia of a young man found dead in a waiting room chair because the triage staff assumed he was asleep , or the Canadian guy who wasn't seen by a doctor for 34 hours . There are dozens of cases.

Someone made the point: it would have been better for this boy to arrive by ambulance. True, but some people don't have the resources and in any case it can be slower.

This is a tragic case and one that should be thoroughly investigated to determine if there has been a failure of care. , not just a simple "sad but shit happens" response

 

So good it should be repeated: "This is a tragic case and one that should be thoroughly investigated to determine if there has been a failure of care. , not just a simple "sad but sxxx happens" response"

Edited July 23, 2017 by mommysboy

[tryasimight]

6 hours ago, barefootbangkok said:

My father-in law was in a coma. The nurses said no need to put him in CCU. He would get better care in the regular ward. He went brain dead that night due to a lack of oxygen. In the morning, they placed in CCU, apparently to cover up their mistake. The family didn't want to sue the hospital since it would only cause more trauma. The hospital wouldn't even transport the father to the family home, insisting that the family pay for transport after they killed him.

How do you presume the hospital killed him? He sounds like he was pretty sick before he went to the hospital. How long do you think he would have lived with oxygen?

 

Stop the blame game and  the "I'm a victim attitude'.

 

It has ruined the West. Hopefully that particular virus won't infect Thaland.

[Nemesis7]

Truly sad and sincere condolence to the family.

[tryasimight]

47 minutes ago, Pridilives said:

So introducing universal healthcare changed nothing at Thai hospitals? You may want double check your beliefs.

 

I think you should check what universal healthcare means......and it's not the 30 baht scheme.  Have a motorbike accident and see what it costs a Thai...I know...both my sons in law got knocked arse over tit on their motorbike. 30 baht didn't help them.

If you are sick...yeah great scheme...accident....forget it.

[Grubster]

15 minutes ago, Prbkk said:

Western ERs are overwhelmed by drunks, druggies, thugs, hoons, assorted low-life (and their victims)presenting with cuts, abrasions, bruises, wounds stemming from accidents, brawls, assaults. Sometimes people with legitimate , urgent needs die in the waiting room before they are seen ( and it's usually those who are accepting of the need to queue or don't/can't articulate their symptoms), as in the cases in Australia of a young man found dead in a waiting room chair because the triage staff assumed he was asleep , or the Canadian guy who wasn't seen by a doctor for 34 hours . There are dozens of cases.

Someone made the point: it would have been better for this boy to arrive by ambulance. True, but some people don't have the resources and in any case it can be slower.

This is a tragic case and one that should be thoroughly investigated to determine if there has been a failure of care. , not just a simple "sad but shit happens" response

Sad but shit happens and always will.

[tryasimight]

27 minutes ago, Nitandom said:

À few months ago I was taken to SuAndok emergency room for a severe chest pain at 6 pm. Within an hour they have down all investigations perfectly: EKG, echo EKG, blood test and Ct scan and found a MI and that 2 stents should be fixed in a coronary artery.They have also found a cardiologist at RAM hospital who accept to come back from home and can put the stents half an hour later, because the angiography in SuAndok didn't work.

Can anyone believes that I had to wait 4,5 hours more just because  none of the doctors there wanted to respond to sign the official documents to free me out!

 If I don't have Thai friend who fighted with them for me, they would have let me dye, just doing nothing !!!

On the top of that when the cardiologist in Ram hospital open my file from SuAndok he found......nothing  but  the medical report saying I need 2 stents ! I was already unconscious but my friend told me he was really angry not to have the images of the Ct scan that shows where to put the stents  being obliged to work as a blind (his words)

I had the stents fixed 7,5 hours after my heart attack

Normaly it should be done within 6 hours 

Suandok free me out 6.5 hours after it

It is just criminal !!! And those in charge that day should not be allowed to approach a patient anymore 

My heart muscle have been seriously damaged and will never recover completely but I am still very lucky to be alive and I am very grateful to Dr Patharapong in Ram who took the risk to surgery me on that day and saved my life 

He is a geat professional and a great man

Are you complaining or praising the Thai system??

[colinneil]

47 minutes ago, sweatalot said:

He came to ER - that means he had to be assessed asap

 

...Absolute nonsense, when you go to most hospitals here, you go to ER.

Even if you have grazed your knee.

[sweatalot]

15 minutes ago, colinneil said:

 

15 minutes ago, colinneil said:

 

...Absolute nonsense, when you go to most hospitals here, you go to ER.

Even if you have grazed your knee.

I've been to one public hospital only .- but a few times. Within a few minuts after entering I had been assessed. (Reason for coming to ER? blood pressure, pulse, OxSat weight. And I observed they did that with everybody. 

Edited July 23, 2017 by sweatalot

[atyclb]

3 hours ago, Here2008 said:

 

And how many of the patients in that study were children ?   You only post an abstract but I am willing to bet there were no children involved.

 

Apparently none   

[Nord X]

On 7/22/2017 at 6:39 AM, billd766 said:

I rarely use hospitals here in Thailand but when I have I have had no qualms about the training that the hospital staff received.

 

How do you know what training they have or have not received?

[DekDaeng]

2 hours ago, tryasimight said:

Are you complaining or praising the Thai system??

Any reason he can't do both?

[surangw]

same system and level of care  tourists will get  with the  prepaid fee  they are planning on collecting at arrival.

[billd766]

4 hours ago, Pridilives said:

So introducing universal healthcare changed nothing at Thai hospitals? You may want double check your beliefs.

 

 

Yes it did change things initially for the better and BTW it was a Democrat plan before Thaksin took it over.

 

It was and still is a good plan but sadly undefunded from the start and is still underfunded today despite governments of the TRT, coup, PPP, Democrats, PTP and another coup.

 

NONE of them increased the funding sufficiently to make it a viable proposition.

[LannaGuy]

Just now, billd766 said:

 

Yes it did change things initially for the better and BTW it was a Democrat plan before Thaksin took it over.

 

It was and still is a good plan but sadly undefunded from the start and is still underfunded today despite governments of the TRT, coup, PPP, Democrats, PTP and another coup.

 

NONE of them increased the funding sufficiently to make it a viable proposition.

 

Dems did nothing - but forget that - the principle is the right one and in the UK we have the best 'free on delivery' health in the world  

[billd766]

4 minutes ago, LannaGuy said:

 

Dems did nothing - but forget that - the principle is the right one and in the UK we have the best 'free on delivery' health in the world  

 

Not anymore.

 

Most of the NHS is overwhelmed at the hospital level by the amount of patients coming in for very minor reasons that perhaps have been sorted out at a pharmacy by OTC medicines (but they would have to pay for them).

 

Where I used to live in Poole UK you are lucky to get a doctors appointment in less than a week so people go to the A & E at the hospital which clogs that up.

 

With all the cutbacks ambulance services have been amalgamated so if you do get allocated an ambulance you could be lucky to get a local one from within a 10 mile radius or be unlucky to get one from 50 miles away. When you get to the hospital you may have to wait on a gurney for a while until the doctor is free to attend to you.

 

That junior doctor may have been on duty and on call for up to 36 hours with little sleep.

 

Log in to the local newspapers where you live, the national newspapers online and the BBC news on like and read about the NHS and the state it is in with cutbacks.

[atyclb]

RUPTURED AAA IN CHILDREN

Aortic aneurysms are extremely rare in children, and their aetiology is different from those in adults. In children, aortic wall infection, vasculitis, and connective tissue disorders are importantcausative factors for AAA.^63–65 Umbilical vein catheterisation is also a well recognised cause of childhood AAA, possibly through infection.^66–68 Most AAAs in children present as painlesspulsatile masses; however, a few alarming cases of rupture have been reported.^65 68 69 Ruptured AAA is not often suspected in children; however, given its fatal nature, clinicians shouldimmediately rule out ruptured AAA in children if it is suspected.

 

http://zarinslab.stanford.edu/publications/zarins_bib/zarins_pdf/2009/assar_AAA_pmj_2009.htm

[Here2008]

Just now, atyclb said:

Aortic aneurysms are extremely rare in children,

 

So rare in fact that most clinicians will never see a case within a working lifetime,

[atyclb]

this even could have happened in any hospital, any country. further compounded by available staff trying to stabilize very sick patient(s) already inside. triple aaa in a child is not a top differential dx.

[atyclb]

would venture to guess the kid would have have a high chance of mortality in surgery even assuming that hospital had capability to repair it. a very unfortunate incident.

[atyclb]

11 minutes ago, Here2008 said:

 

So rare in fact that most clinicians will never see a case within a working lifetime,

 agree unless a surgeon  doing triple a's in a regional referral facility.

Edited July 23, 2017 by atyclb

[atyclb]

Mortality rates for surgical repair of ruptured AAA averaged 49.8% and did not improve significantly over the 11 years studied.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8170034

[Here2008]

4 minutes ago, atyclb said:

 agree unless a surgeon  doing triple a's in a regional referral facility.

Having worked in such a facility I am aware that paediatric  Aortic Prosthesis were not available. Peadiatric cases had to be referred to a supra- regional facility and in the country that I worked there were only 8 such facilities.

[bill59]

Sounds like a visit to the VA here in America.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[LannaGuy]

13 hours ago, Prbkk said:

Western ERs are overwhelmed by drunks, druggies, thugs, hoons, assorted low-life (and their victims)presenting with cuts, abrasions, bruises, wounds stemming from accidents, brawls, assaults. Sometimes people with legitimate , urgent needs die in the waiting room before they are seen ( and it's usually those who are accepting of the need to queue or don't/can't articulate their symptoms), as in the cases in Australia of a young man found dead in a waiting room chair because the triage staff assumed he was asleep , or the Canadian guy who wasn't seen by a doctor for 34 hours . There are dozens of cases.

Someone made the point: it would have been better for this boy to arrive by ambulance. True, but some people don't have the resources and in any case it can be slower.

This is a tragic case and one that should be thoroughly investigated to determine if there has been a failure of care. , not just a simple "sad but shit happens" response

That was me and I gave a big tip about hospitals and it applied in the UK too. IF it is very serious (and you know it is) call an ambulance and you WILL be seen before 90% of the others. Stretchered-in cases get priority over walking wounded. If you can't get an ambulance or just can't wait get carried in.

 

RiP to the young boy, a tragedy, but shit happens and I'm sure they did their best. Investigate and if something can be learned that's good but hospital's can't all be geared up for every eventuality that's why they have specialists. 

[wgdanson]

On 7/22/2017 at 2:14 PM, seajae said:

in Australia you are seen by the nurse as you come in, temp and bp taken as well as pulse, this is everyone. If you happen to have bad readings you are pushed through, this is always the best method but here someone with a runny nose gets preference over someone dying because they were there first, very backward.

 

And of course name, address, insurance and credit card number.

[Grumpy Duck]

On 7/22/2017 at 0:37 PM, missoura said:

Many years ago there was a Thai lady  selling noodles at the school I worked at in Bangkok. Her teenage daughter lived upcountry to attend school. One day while heading to the market with her two friends on a motorcycle, a car swerved from the other lane and hit the girls. No one was killed, but the noodle daughter suffered a serious leg injury.

 

She was taken to the hospital and told that proof of payment must be shown before receiving any medical care. By the time arrangements were made, it was too late. This young girl lost her leg. In the weeks following the accident, most everyone at school pitched in and bought a prosthesis for her.

 

The person who hit her, was a teenage son of a policeman. His family sued the girl's family for damages to their car. Never did hear the outcome.

Oh my ghastly terror. may the young lad enjoy a long fruitful next life. 

I have no idea who was at fault in the accident mentioned, but to go after a girl that lost her leg for dammages to your car is terribly heartless. Such greed should be unimaginable I almost wish his father would be the "Red Bull Bosses" next victim.