Future govts ‘will be wary of populist policies’ after action against ex-PM

[Ricardo]

1 minute ago, jaywalker said:

I stand corrected. Thanks.

You're welcome  ...  it's a fairly-long & complicated story.

[jaywalker]

Capitalism vs Populist/Socialist idealogy... my view.

 

A capitalist works hard, earns money and re-invests his money, to make more money. Along the way he creates jobs for people with no money.

 

Along the way the lazy socialist will say "That's not fair! He has more money than me!"

 

Now, in Thailand, who you know, many times, but not always, making money is corrupt to the core.

 

Not & never will say Thaksin is whatever (guilty or not - I'm not a judge), but he worked at KFC in college, in the US & created AIS, that employs how many thousands of citizens?

 

I 'think' Yingluck is a pawn & Thaksin was trying to buy his way back in,

 

Prime ministers/governments who can grant amnesty come & go like vendors on a street bar in Pattaya,

 

Before you reply hating Thaksin, are you using AIS?

 

I do not like nor hate any of them. I'm apolitical the world over, as I believe they are all crooks. But Thaksin did start something that many people find useful, unlike General P, who has done naught but roll out tanks and clean up a few beach chairs.

 

 

[jaywalker]

17 minutes ago, Ricardo said:

You're welcome  ...  it's a fairly-long & complicated story.

Kinda like trying to keep up w/ the new "Draft Charter".

[Pridilives]

3 minutes ago, jaywalker said:

Capitalism vs Populist/Socialist idealogy... my view.

 

A capitalist works hard, earns money and re-invests his money, to make more money. Along the way he creates jobs for people with no money.

 

Along the way the lazy socialist will say "That's not fair! He has more money than me!"

 

Now, in Thailand, who you know, many times, but not always, making money is corrupt to the core.

 

Not & never will say Thaksin is whatever (guilty or not - I'm not a judge), but he worked at KFC in college, in the US & created AIS, that employs how many thousands of citizens?

 

I 'think' Yingluck is a pawn & Thaksin was trying to buy his way back in,

 

Prime ministers/governments who can grant amnesty come & go like vendors on a street bar in Pattaya,

 

Before you reply hating Thaksin, are you using AIS?

 

I do not like nor hate any of them. I'm apolitical the world over, as I believe they are all crooks. But Thaksin did start something that many people find useful, unlike General P, who has done naught but roll out tanks and clean up a few beach chairs.

 

 

Goog god. Only an American can write such nonsense. 

Only capitalist work hard for money - like Wall Street you mean. Banker produce nothing but take billions dollars. Global financial crisis 2008 create how many job. Bailout cost how many billion. 

 

Best system is is welfare state like Canada Australia and Scandinavia country.

 

you can think anything you want about yingluck or thaksin or anything just have to remember opinion is not fact.

 

 

[LannaGuy]

5 hours ago, robblok said:

 

I have little pity for her she has so much money and she put herself in this position to benefit her family (see amnesty). I have far more empathy for real poor people in trouble. These politicians are in it for themselves and know the risks and have enough money to bail out when they want. 

 

My pity goes out to people like the parents from those that were killed by Jentrop and other unfairness in Thailand. People who don't have YL her means. She went here willingly to help her family and she lost. 

I think you'll find, in the long term, she won

[robblok]

6 minutes ago, LannaGuy said:

I think you'll find, in the long term, she won

That is something only time will tell (and then is still open for interpretation)

[LannaGuy]

2 minutes ago, robblok said:

That is something only time will tell (and then is still open for interpretation)

robblok she hasn't run and had plenty opportunity to do so (the Junta would have loved it).

 

She has stood up, even though followed by the Junta's spies wherever she goes. She has had dignity, resolution and calmness despite not being allowed to speak freely. She deserves some credit and most Thais love her for it.

Edited July 23, 2017 by LannaGuy

[robblok]

Just now, LannaGuy said:

robblok she hasn't run and had plenty opportunity to do so (the Junta would;d have loved it). She has stood up, even though followed by the Junta's spies wherever she goes. She has had dignity, resolution and calmness despite not being allowed to speak freely. She deserves some credit and most Thais love her for it.

Sorry mate i don't give her any credit.. she is just a puppet for her brother and was only happy to have him included in the amnesty. This has shown me clearly what is more important for her, family over Thailand. she is in it for her family and that is it.. she has a pretty face.. can act good sure she is a good politician. But I have no respect for her, she bullied people around too when she was in power (thinking about the woman who blew the lid on the rice program). She is no different.. just a pretty face who does her brothers bidding. 

[LannaGuy]

Just now, robblok said:

Sorry mate i don't give her any credit.. she is just a puppet for her brother and was only happy to have him included in the amnesty. This has shown me clearly what is more important for her, family over Thailand. she is in it for her family and that is it.. she has a pretty face.. can act good sure she is a good politician. But I have no respect for her, she bullied people around too when she was in power (thinking about the woman who blew the lid on the rice program). She is no different.. just a pretty face who does her brothers bidding. 

I'm afraid we will always disagree on this. If she was ousted legally, through elections, you would not have heard a murmur from me... but...

[jaywalker]

11 minutes ago, Pridilives said:

Goog god. Only an American can write such nonsense. 

Only capitalist work hard for money - like Wall Street you mean. Banker produce nothing but take billions dollars. Global financial crisis 2008 create how many job. Bailout cost how many billion. 

 

Best system is is welfare state like Canada Australia and Scandinavia country.

 

you can think anything you want about yingluck or thaksin or anything just have to remember opinion is not fact.

 

 

I was referring to my Thai brother-in-law really. His name is Na and now lives near Prasat, Surin.

 

Not Wall Street bankers who are are so deeply in with Washington.

 

The guy had NOTHING, but a motorbike to start. Married my wife's sister, and grandma/grandpa took care of their first baby, while he made 25,000/month as a moto-taxi driver, and his wife worked in a factory making about 15,000 a month (I'm taking a wild guess as their salaries).

 

They saved money and Na bought a tractor to plow farms in Isaan. He now has 4 tractors and 5 guys working for him and makes around (guessing again) 100,000 baht per month.

 

He has a nice truck, decent house, and just works his butt off all day.

 

Should the government take money from him to feed those who think others are "Rich" and have no ambition?

 

If they did, then many more people would lose out. No plowed fields = no harvest = he can't feed his kids.

 

Allow the man to be free and thrive. He WORKED for it! Allow him to enjoy the fruits of his LABOR.

 

Labor seems to be a word that socialists cannot comprehend.

 

 

[robblok]

Just now, LannaGuy said:

I'm afraid we will always disagree on this. If she was ousted legally, through elections, you would not have heard a murmur from me... but...

We will disagree on lots of things, partly because of what we experienced and where we are located who we engage with what we have seen. 

 

I don't like coups, but to let things run into the ground before taking action is also not a good idea. I can't wait for the next election lets hope that this time they will just keep within the rules. I would hate it if they are again going to remove checks and balances.. or if in power try to get Thaksin off. That is sure to set into motion problems. But I guess they had other priorities.

[Pridilives]

5 minutes ago, robblok said:

We will disagree on lots of things, partly because of what we experienced and where we are located who we engage with what we have seen. 

 

I don't like coups, but to let things run into the ground before taking action is also not a good idea. I can't wait for the next election lets hope that this time they will just keep within the rules. I would hate it if they are again going to remove checks and balances.. or if in power try to get Thaksin off. That is sure to set into motion problems. But I guess they had other priorities.

Seem like you like coups more than elect government though just too scared to say it. 

You don't like a government that had more checks and balances than government that replace it. If this real reason why you don't like red government then why you not talk anything this government worse for check and balance. so easy to see through you

[maxcorrigan]

15 hours ago, Thailand said:

The current ptb will also be on the block sometime in the future when the self given amnesties are revoked, not much changes here.

I hope it happens, i can't see what can stop a future government arming itself with art 44 which apparently can over rule any law, and overriding the juntas all encompassing amnesty for its leaders, or maybe i'm missing something! 

[Grubster]

14 hours ago, robblok said:

All farmers should be ready to either change or tighten their belt. Change hurts but in the long run benefits farmers. You can't keep pumping money in things that don't work. The farmers only wanted money, they were too set in their ways to change.

 

There is a reason why the Thai neighbors have more yield per rai and lower costs.. because they had too change and were not constantly helped out. Its how things work you adapt of you go out of business it works that way for all businesses why not farmers. Why allow them to just hold their hand up and never change. I am all for helping farmers set up cooperatives, education and soft loans to change things in their farms (not to buy pickups in a good year and have no money for them the next year).

 

I feel farmers and everyone else should be subjected to market forces, if you deny that you will blow up your country in the end. Your citizen will be forced to buy stuff at higher prices because the high import taxes to help protect a failing internal market. 

So you would stop protecting all the rich producers of most other products here by taking the tariffs off all their foreign competitors? 

[candide]

6 hours ago, jaywalker said:

I was referring to my Thai brother-in-law really. His name is Na and now lives near Prasat, Surin.

 

Not Wall Street bankers who are are so deeply in with Washington.

 

The guy had NOTHING, but a motorbike to start. Married my wife's sister, and grandma/grandpa took care of their first baby, while he made 25,000/month as a moto-taxi driver, and his wife worked in a factory making about 15,000 a month (I'm taking a wild guess as their salaries).

 

They saved money and Na bought a tractor to plow farms in Isaan. He now has 4 tractors and 5 guys working for him and makes around (guessing again) 100,000 baht per month.

 

He has a nice truck, decent house, and just works his butt off all day.

 

Should the government take money from him to feed those who think others are "Rich" and have no ambition?

 

If they did, then many more people would lose out. No plowed fields = no harvest = he can't feed his kids.

 

Allow the man to be free and thrive. He WORKED for it! Allow him to enjoy the fruits of his LABOR.

 

Labor seems to be a word that socialists cannot comprehend.

 

 

The point you raise shows that this issue has no solution. The problem in Thailand is that the burden of financing redistributive policies falls on the shoulders of the (alledgely) hard-working middle-class, while economic rents are also extracted from them in an economy dominated by a powerfull network.It is difficult to introduce redistribution to the poor in a system distributing to the rich.

[Baerboxer]

On 7/23/2017 at 5:11 AM, Samui Bodoh said:

Thailand, as a country that has huge wealth inequalities, needs a few populist policies to assist the poor.

 

The issue isn't whether the country needs policies aimed at poverty-reduction, but whether the Powers That Be in Bangkok will allow for it. And if it is not allowed, then it is likely that the troubles will continue into the future, despite the military. If you are on a farm in Issan, and you see the gleaming towers of Bangkok on the Net, it is a natural question to wonder why you are being excluded.

 

Populism is a label. 'Populist' policies are happening now (see rubber policy for Southerners). And populist policies will continue.

 

The question is who will benefit from them. And that is the continuing dispute.

 

Populist policies are fine - and you are 100% correct that they are especially needed where country's have big wealth inequalities.

 

But, they need to be well managed, be under parliamentary and ngo scrutiny to ensure full accountability and transparency and be correctly budgeted for. 

 

Having a situation where the status quo is not allowed to change as those who benefit from that don't want it to change; or where someone wants to changes only for the benefit of themselves and their cronies will simply continue and worsen the disputes.

 

Future governments should not be wary of populist policies - but they should be wary of how they are managed and implemented.

Edited July 24, 2017 by Baerboxer

[Eric Loh]

6 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

But, they need to be well managed, be under parliamentary and ngo scrutiny to ensure full accountability and transparency and be correctly budgeted for. 

Kind of run contrary to the purchases of military hardware in terms of Parliment scrutiny and ignoring Ngo and public criticisms plus lack of accountability and transparency. Not populist per se but certainly highly popular with the generals and procurement staffs. They get some credit for allocating indecent amount of budget for their toys at the expense of other necessary spending like education and healthcare. 

[Baerboxer]

Just now, Eric Loh said:

Kind of run contrary to the purchases of military hardware in terms of Parliment scrutiny and ignoring Ngo and public criticisms plus lack of accountability and transparency. Not populist per se but certainly highly popular with the generals and procurement staffs. They get some credit for allocating indecent amount of budget for their toys at the expense of other necessary spending like education and healthcare. 

 

Eric - exactly. These aren't populist policies. It's highly debatable that a civilian government would spend such an amount on defense hardware when other areas such as health care, education, infrastructure and poverty eradication call out for more. 

 

[Pridilives]

3 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Eric - exactly. These aren't populist policies. It's highly debatable that a civilian government would spend such an amount on defense hardware when other areas such as health care, education, infrastructure and poverty eradication call out for more. 

 

What is not debate is every time have coup military spend go up. Before Thailand reserve 400 billion baht now with junta spend just 80 billion baht reserve

[Baerboxer]

Just now, Pridilives said:

What is not debate is every time have coup military spend go up. Before Thailand reserve 400 billion baht now with junta spend just 80 billion baht reserve

 

And during the PTP regime the Shiniwattra family wealth increased by 450% !

 

How much did the wealth of the average Thai family increase during the PTP years?

[robblok]

So you would stop protecting all the rich producers of most other products here by taking the tariffs off all their foreign competitors? 

Yes I would if it was up to me. Let them compete on quality and price. I hate monopolies.

[Grubster]

3 hours ago, robblok said:

Yes I would if it was up to me. Let them compete on quality and price. I hate monopolies.

That sure opens the door to slavery and all kinds of other human rights issues, as who is to decide if a foreign country is taking care of its workers. Do you know how many children the US textile industry put to work in slave like conditions in the far east and se Asia in the name of lower prices. I think at some point a country needs to take care of its own.   Thailand would collapse in less than one year if they tried to compete with the world this way.

[Grubster]

8 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

And during the PTP regime the Shiniwattra family wealth increased by 450% !

 

How much did the wealth of the average Thai family increase during the PTP years?

I don't think there are many leaders of any nation that didn't end up much, much more wealthy after "serving" their country. Nor do I think that the current leaders here will end up only a paltry 450% more wealthy than when they took office.

[Chris Lawrence]

A lot of experts of little opinion, but one.

[funandsuninbangkok]

Certainly taking all Yingluck's money is redistributive!  Interesting to watch where it goes. 

[robblok]

That sure opens the door to slavery and all kinds of other human rights issues, as who is to decide if a foreign country is taking care of its workers. Do you know how many children the US textile industry put to work in slave like conditions in the far east and se Asia in the name of lower prices. I think at some point a country needs to take care of its own.   Thailand would collapse in less than one year if they tried to compete with the world this way.

Whatever i said you would have disagreed. You can setup blockades against slavery. When i say competing on quality and price i dont mean go for slave labor. Lot of crap here in Thailand is over priced low quality. Just think of the beers here. Not much slave labor in those if you have to compete on quality. I guess if i said YL wanted it you would have agreed.