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[webfact]

Kremlin orders Washington to slash embassy staff in Russia

By Maria Tsvetkova and Jack Stubbs

 

The flag of the U.S. flies outside the U.S. consulate in St. Petersburg, Russia, July 31, 2017. REUTERS/Anton Vaganov

 

MOSCOW (Reuters) - The Kremlin has ordered the United States to cut about 60 percent of its diplomatic staff in Russia but many of those let go will be Russian citizens, softening the impact of a measure adopted in retaliation for new U.S. sanctions.

 

The ultimatum issued by Russian President Vladimir Putin is a display to voters at home that he is prepared to stand up to Washington, but is also carefully calibrated to avoid directly affecting the U.S. investment he needs, or burning his bridges with his U.S. opposite number Donald Trump.

 

Putin said on Sunday Russia had ordered the United States to cut 755 of its 1,200 embassy and consulate staff by September, and was seizing two diplomatic properties.

 

The cuts will affect embassy and consular operations, but allowing the United States to choose who leaves means a smaller impact than expelling U.S. diplomats from Russia.

 

The measures were announced after the U.S. Congress overwhelmingly approved new sanctions to respond to Russian meddling in the 2016 U.S. presidential election and to punish Russia further for its 2014 annexation of Crimea from Ukraine. The White House said on Friday that Trump would sign the sanctions bill.

 

Speaking to troops in Tallinn, Estonia, U.S. Vice President Mike Pence called Russia's actions "drastic" but said Washington would continue with its sanctions until Moscow stopped its "destabilising activities in Ukraine and elsewhere."

 

Trump did not comment on the expulsions on Monday. "Right now, we're reviewing our options, and when we have something to say, we'll let you know," his spokeswoman Sarah Sanders told reporters.

 

Staff at the U.S. embassy in Moscow were on Monday summoned to an all-hands meeting where Ambassador John F. Tefft briefed employees on the Russian decision - the toughest diplomatic demarche between the two countries since the Cold War.

 

"The atmosphere was like a funeral," said one person present, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he is not authorised to talk to the media.

 

PUNISHING CONGRESS, NOT TRUMP

 

Forcing the United States to scale back its diplomatic presence will reinforce Putin's reputation at home as a resolute defender of Russia's interests. That will help burnish his image before next year's presidential election, when he is expected to seek another term.

 

Putin said on Sunday he saw no sign of better relations with the United States, and held out the possibility of more measures to come.

 

The consequences of the Russian retaliation are not so stark that it would permanently alienate Trump, according to Alexander Baunov, a senior fellow at the Moscow Carnegie Centre, a think tank.

 

By announcing his counter-measures before Trump signed the sanctions legislation into law, "Putin is sending a message that he is punishing Congress's America, and not Trump's America," Baunov wrote in a Facebook post.

 

"(Putin) has taken Trump out of the direct line of fire and spared his ego."

 

Absent from the Russian retaliation were any measures that directly target U.S. investment in Russia. U.S. bluechip companies such as Ford, Citi and Boeing have projects in the country, bringing the kind of investment the Kremlin needs to lift a sluggish economic recovery.

 

TOWN HALL MEETING

 

Embassy employees in Moscow on Monday anxiously waited to hear if they would keep their jobs. Tefft described the Russian decision as unfair, but provided no details about the cuts, a person at the meeting told Reuters.

 

The ambassador said Russian staff who were let go could apply for a special immigration visa to the United States.

 

"People asked what Russian staff should do now, since a lot of Russian people working for the embassy are blacklisted and cannot find a job in Russian companies," said the person present.

 

One area likely to be cut is the office that issues visas to Russian citizens seeking to travel to the United States, according to a former U.S. ambassador to Moscow, Michael McFaul.

 

"If these cuts are real, Russians should expect to wait weeks if not months to get visas to come to U.S.," McFaul wrote in a Twitter post on Sunday.

 

Moscow's response included a vow to seize a U.S. warehouse in southern Moscow and a country villa, or dacha, on the outskirts of the city used by embassy staff on the weekends.

 

On Monday, a Reuters journalist saw five vehicles with diplomatic licence plates, including a cargo truck, arrive at the dacha. The convoy was refused access.

 

Russian state news agency RIA quoted an unnamed foreign ministry source as saying the Americans failed to obtain environmental permits for the trucks to enter a conservation area around the site.

 

(Additional reporting by Polina Devitt, Dmitry Madorsky and Gennady Novik in Moscow and Yeganeh Torbati and Roberta Rampton in Washington; writing by Christian Lowe; editing by Grant McCool)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-08-01

[maewang99]

we are almost there.....  making Amerikee Great Again

next? an Autonomous Killer Drone Gap... a race to build thousands of 'self flying' laser equipped killer drones.... paid for and made in China.

 






 

  







 

 

 

Edited August 1, 2017 by maewang99

[binjalin]

Expected this weeks ago. Tit for Tat and who can blame them?  Instead of applying sanctions why not firm-up cyber-security if they feel it's been  breached? this get's us nowhere but it's American led. 

[ilostmypassword]

9 minutes ago, binjalin said:

Expected this weeks ago. Tit for Tat and who can blame them?  Instead of applying sanctions why not firm-up cyber-security if they feel it's been  breached? this get's us nowhere but it's American led. 

Yes. Maybe America should work on improving cyber security with the Russians as the President suggested.

[binjalin]

1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said:

Yes. Maybe America should work on improving cyber security with the Russians as the President suggested.

They are not the enemy and a more co-operative world would help us ALL. Billions spent annually by nations to make themselves 'the best' could be spent on hospitals, schools and the like. Nationalism is a world evil.

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, binjalin said:

They are not the enemy and a more co-operative world would help us ALL. Billions spent annually by nations to make themselves 'the best' could be spent on hospitals, schools and the like. Nationalism is a world evil.

Vladimir Putin - a friend to democracy and world peace.

[binjalin]

4 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Vladimir Putin - a friend to democracy and world peace.

Donald Trump (your elected President) - a friend to democracy and world peace?

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, binjalin said:

Donald Trump (your elected President) - a friend to democracy and world peace?

So if you disapprove of one, that means you approve of the other? Donald Trump would disagree with you. After all, he is notorious for approving of himself which didn't seem to get in the way of his warm feelings for Putin.

And how do you know that Trump is my President?

[binjalin]

22 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

So if you disapprove of one, that means you approve of the other? Donald Trump would disagree with you. After all, he is notorious for approving of himself which didn't seem to get in the way of his warm feelings for Putin.

And how do you know that Trump is my President?

You might not like Putin but he got 63.64% of the vote and is undoubtedly the popular choice in Russia. Not anyone's but Russian's business who they elect and the other way around. Trump is a disaster on so many levels and you can't say that about Putin and I know who I prefer.  

[craigt3365]

2 minutes ago, binjalin said:

You might not like Putin but he got 63.64% of the vote and is undoubtedly the popular choice in Russia. Not anyone's but Russian's business who they elect and the other way around. Trump is a disaster on so many levels and you can't say that about Putin and I know who I prefer.  

Russia is not a democracy.  So the percentage of the vote he got is meaningless.  Just like in North Korea.  Trump is a disaster, but Putin is a danger. 

 

FYI.  I just read an article that said many of those laid off are actually Russian.  Working at the various consulates and the embassy.  I'm sure those Russians will "vote" for Putin again! LOL

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, binjalin said:

You might not like Putin but he got 63.64% of the vote and is undoubtedly the popular choice in Russia. Not anyone's but Russian's business who they elect and the other way around. Trump is a disaster on so many levels and you can't say that about Putin and I know who I prefer.  

I guess what really helps him is that the Russian Press is free and openly allowed to criticize him. And if a journalist does criticize him or dig up unfavorable information about his government, he or she is in absolutely no danger of being murdered.  Also, potential opponents to run against him are openly welcomed and encouraged as they ought to be in a democracy.

And of course, Russian hasn't initiated military action against neighboring nations or seized territory. Their forebearance on that score is remarkable.

[binjalin]

9 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Russia is not a democracy.  So the percentage of the vote he got is meaningless.  Just like in North Korea.  Trump is a disaster, but Putin is a danger. 

 

FYI.  I just read an article that said many of those laid off are actually Russian.  Working at the various consulates and the embassy.  I'm sure those Russians will "vote" for Putin again! LOL

Not a democracy?    you are living in the Cold War dark ages

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_presidential_election,_2012

 

37% did not vote for him but OTHER candidates - what's that? you are just biased on your spoon-fed USA spin

 

Nice to see you admit to the 'vote' for Putin and that's called democracy but you will never admit to it.

 

PS many of those in the USA sanctions were American employees not just Russians so 'same same'.

 

 

Edited August 1, 2017 by binjalin

[binjalin]

4 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

I guess what really helps him is that the Russian Press is free and openly allowed to criticize him. And if a journalist does criticize him or dig up unfavorable information about his government, he or she is in absolutely no danger of being murdered.  Also, potential opponents to run against him are openly welcomed and encouraged as they ought to be in a democracy.

And of course, Russian hasn't initiated military action against neighboring nations or seized territory. Their forebearance on that score is remarkable.

According to your news outlets. Millions voted against him, many millions in fact, and Russians I know voted for him and you don't like that but it's true. Of course America has never initiated any military action right? 

[craigt3365]

Just now, binjalin said:

Not a democracy?    you are living in the Cold War dark ages

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_presidential_election,_2012

 

37% did not vote for him but OTHER candidates - what's that? you are just biased on your spoon-fed USA spin

 

Nice to see you admit to the 'vote' for Putin and that's called democracy but you will never admit to it

What's the cold war got to do with this?  Wow.

 

A democracy means you have a free, fair and independent press.  Russia does not.  Nuff said. 

 

Even Russians aren't sure they're a democracy!  LOL

 

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/economy/2016/01/very-special-version-russian-democracy

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, binjalin said:

According to your news outlets. Millions voted against him, many millions in fact, and Russians I know voted for him and you don't like that but it's true. Of course America has never initiated any military action right? 

And of course these millions had easy access to an opposition press. Because it's a definite fact that the Russian Government has not systematically  shut down any press organizations that are critical of Putin and Company. And certainly has no hand in the beatings and murders of journalists it doesn't approve of.

[craigt3365]

Just now, binjalin said:

According to your news outlets. Millions voted against him, many millions in fact, and Russians I know voted for him and you don't like that but it's true. Of course America has never initiated any military action right? 

I love this quote by Stalin:

The people who cast the votes decide nothing; the people who count the votes decide everything

 

[binjalin]

Just now, craigt3365 said:

I love this quote by Stalin:

The people who cast the votes decide nothing; the people who count the votes decide everything

 

Yes it's horrific and Stalin was an evil butcher and thank God the Russian's have pulled around and all of our nations should seek cooperative effort with each other not tit-for-tat antagonisms. Aim your hate and ire at North Korea now on THAT we will probably agree. Evil place.  

[iReason]

21 minutes ago, binjalin said:

Millions voted against him, many millions in fact, and Russians I know voted for him and you don't like that but it's true.

Of course America has never initiated any military action right? 

 

Whataboutism is a propaganda technique formerly used by the Soviet Union in its dealings with the Western world,

and subsequently used as a form of propaganda in post-Soviet Russia.

 

When criticisms were leveled at the Soviet Union,

the Soviet response would be "What about..." followed by an event in the Western world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

[craigt3365]

13 minutes ago, binjalin said:

Yes it's horrific and Stalin was an evil butcher and thank God the Russian's have pulled around and all of our nations should seek cooperative effort with each other not tit-for-tat antagonisms. Aim your hate and ire at North Korea now on THAT we will probably agree. Evil place.  

But Russia hacked US election computers.  That's been proven.  Should they just be allowed to go free?  And it's not only the US, it's many other countries. 

 

Plus, they've illegally invaded several other sovereign countries.  Should that also be allowed to stand?  What's next, the Baltics?  Even Putin has said he'd like them back.  Where do you draw the line?

[nasanews]

1200 embassy and consulate employees are too many, probably many of them are informers and spies.

[Dave67]

 "Right now, we're reviewing our options, and when we have something to say, we'll let you know," 

 

A tweet declaring War on Russia

[binjalin]

32 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

But Russia hacked US election computers.  That's been proven.  Should they just be allowed to go free?  And it's not only the US, it's many other countries. 

 

Plus, they've illegally invaded several other sovereign countries.  Should that also be allowed to stand?  What's next, the Baltics?  Even Putin has said he'd like them back.  Where do you draw the line?

Russians may have but Russia?  anyway I'm 100% confident America does the same all over the place lol.

[Ace of Pop]

1200 embassy and consulate employees are too many, probably many of them are informers and spies.

They are to be relocated in Pats in vacated Russian slum areas.[emoji539]


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[craigt3365]

Interesting analysis of Putin's response:

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/07/31/opinions/putin-in-a-corner-galeotti-opinion/index.html

 

Quote

 

Putin is in a corner, trying not to look weak

NASA, for example, still depends on Russian rockets to loft its astronauts to the International Space Station, and Moscow could have refused to do this any more -- but that would have cost Russia's cash-strapped space program almost a billion dollars in 2017 and 2018 alone.

 

Likewise, Russia exports nothing essential to America, and with a GDP smaller than that of New York state's, there is minimal scope for other economic moves.

 

 

[Ron19]

A number of off topic bickering posts have been removed.

[joecoolfrog]

2 hours ago, binjalin said:

Russians may have but Russia?  anyway I'm 100% confident America does the same all over the place lol.

I despise Trump and Putin is definitely on a higher level intelectually . However it is absurd to believe that Russia is a democracy , there is no free press , political intimidation is rampant and opponents of Putin sometimes end up dead.

The USA has its problems , its foreign policies and arrogance have not endeared it to many people and Trump is making it worse.

Seriously though ask yourself one question , would you feel safer demonstrating outside the White House against Trump or outside the Kremlin against Putin ?

 

[binjalin]

31 minutes ago, joecoolfrog said:

I despise Trump and Putin is definitely on a higher level intelectually . However it is absurd to believe that Russia is a democracy , there is no free press , political intimidation is rampant and opponents of Putin sometimes end up dead.

The USA has its problems , its foreign policies and arrogance have not endeared it to many people and Trump is making it worse.

Seriously though ask yourself one question , would you feel safer demonstrating outside the White House against Trump or outside the Kremlin against Putin ?

 

I think it's absurd to believe the US is a democracy too. Both have failings and it's true that the US has more freedoms but it's not true to say Putin was not elected by 64% of the millions who voted. And they were not all intimidated. We need to get beyond this 'Russia hating' they are different culturally and politically and for the US to impose it's own form of 'democracy' as being 'right' is a fools errand sir. The US cannot bend Russia to it's will nor bully her and vice versa. 

Edited August 1, 2017 by binjalin

[dick dasterdly]

3 hours ago, nasanews said:

1200 embassy and consulate employees are too many, probably many of them are informers and spies.

"Probably many of them are informers and spies" 

 

Of course they are - hence the occasional purge of foreign embassy staff every now and again when one country gets bad-tempered about obvious spies and the like !

 

Embassies are largely pointless IMO.  They're there to promote business and spying under the guise of 'diplomacy'....

 

Only a small 'embassy' is required by any country (to take care of their own citizens needs in that country).  Spying/promoting business can easily be carried out without the use of embassies.....

[Morch]

7 hours ago, binjalin said:

Expected this weeks ago. Tit for Tat and who can blame them?  Instead of applying sanctions why not firm-up cyber-security if they feel it's been  breached? this get's us nowhere but it's American led. 

 

5 hours ago, binjalin said:

They are not the enemy and a more co-operative world would help us ALL. Billions spent annually by nations to make themselves 'the best' could be spent on hospitals, schools and the like. Nationalism is a world evil.

 

4 hours ago, binjalin said:

Yes it's horrific and Stalin was an evil butcher and thank God the Russian's have pulled around and all of our nations should seek cooperative effort with each other not tit-for-tat antagonisms. Aim your hate and ire at North Korea now on THAT we will probably agree. Evil place.  

 

And it's all the US's fault. Nothing whatsoever to do with Russia's actions. Russia is passive, only reacting to US transgressions. US ought to be the "better man" and act responsibly. Russia isn't the enemy, even when engaging in hostile activities. And Russia is not expansionist. But but but the US.

 

Gets tired after a while.

 

[joecoolfrog]

1 hour ago, binjalin said:

I think it's absurd to believe the US is a democracy too. Both have failings and it's true that the US has more freedoms but it's not true to say Putin was not elected by 64% of the millions who voted. And they were not all intimidated. We need to get beyond this 'Russia hating' they are different culturally and politically and for the US to impose it's own form of 'democracy' as being 'right' is a fools errand sir. The US cannot bend Russia to it's will nor bully her and vice versa. 

I neither hate Russia nor love the USA , its not a zero sum game. As mentioned in an earlier post you have fallen back on the 'whatabout ' defence , no democracy is 100% perfect , its all a question of degree.

Trump aside I would confidently assert that the level of democracy in the USA far exceeds that of Russia , its not even a contest.