In thailand working in the uk

[zok7]

Thanks for the advice people.

 

As a follow up question. If I can't get a visa it looks unlikely I can get a thai bank account. What's the best practice for getting money from a UK bank account into Thai Baht ready to spend? I here Credit Cards/Debit Cards charge and then the Thai ATM's charge on top. How expensive is it? And is there a way round getting stung like this?

 

 

[anon789561]

17 minutes ago, zok7 said:

Thanks for the advice people.

 

As a follow up question. If I can't get a visa it looks unlikely I can get a thai bank account. What's the best practice for getting money from a UK bank account into Thai Baht ready to spend? I here Credit Cards/Debit Cards charge and then the Thai ATM's charge on top. How expensive is it? And is there a way round getting stung like this?

 

 

ATM withdrawals are stupid, about 250 baht a pop I think. you should be able to open an account with Bangkok bank but you may need to get your passport verified by the UK embassy. there are transfer services such as transferwise which should make it cheaper than through the bank

[Here2008]

18 minutes ago, zok7 said:

Thanks for the advice people.

 

As a follow up question. If I can't get a visa it looks unlikely I can get a thai bank account. What's the best practice for getting money from a UK bank account into Thai Baht ready to spend? I here Credit Cards/Debit Cards charge and then the Thai ATM's charge on top. How expensive is it? And is there a way round getting stung like this?

 

 

Presumably you have a tourist visa. If you want a bank account then you will have to trawl the banks until you find one willing to assist YOU.  You would be best advised to try the larger bank branches in the tourist areas. 

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, genericptr said:

That's ominous. Did you have multiple TV's from Vientiane in the previous year? Since last year my passport is going to look like 1 TV from Colorado USA, 1 TV from Vientiane 1 TV from Phnom, over and over until I commit to getting the $7000 USD. Thanks.

Yes, I did have several from them the year before.  Consider Savanahket, HCMC, and Penang - though wait for news about the 'extra stamp' from Penang.  And remember, the 'extra stamp' issue is solved with a new passport.

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, jenifer d said:

that does NOT specifically say they cannot do digital work that does NOT involve Thailand,

Yes it does. If the "digital work" is an "occupation" it requires permission. They do not exempt any "occupation" in that law.

 

1 hour ago, jenifer d said:

it says they cannot WORK here- unless one is doing digital work that involves Thai people spending THEIR money,

No it doesn't!

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, jenifer d said:

that does NOT specifically say they cannot do digital work that does NOT involve Thailand,

it says they cannot WORK here- unless one is doing digital work that involves Thai people spending THEIR money,

It just says "work" - written at a time when remote-work didn't exist.  There are co-working spaces full of people not being touched, and bragging about it on FB - but I would not recommend this, as it sets them up for being rounded-up at any time.  Enforcement is what matters, and that could change at any time.  On this forum, we have discussed many "old laws" that were suddenly brought into force. 

 

Clearly, remote-workers are a net-benefit to Thailand - but if someone is up to this, they would be wise not to make it public. 

 

Quote

also- if one is on tourist visa, they are abusing if more than two consecutively (many divers and NON-work-permitted teachers abuse tourist visas) not sure about recently, as i only used tourist visa twice several years 

ago and now have retirement...

Where does the "more than two" number come from?  Why not more than one, or more than three?   Not trying to be harsh - just that there isn't any legal / rule definition to rely on. 

 

Once you are 50, you can easily "buy" a faked-money visa for between 15K and 25K per-year from scores of agents.  Therefore, I would bet that most illegal teachers, without the foreign-sourced funds to support themselves without working illegally, are over 50, because they can more affordably keep a visa here.  Yet they undergo little scrutiny.  Under 50s, meanwhile, get put through the ringer.  Consider the difference in paperwork for marriage vs retirement, and some offices even requesting extra MFA stamps from married-folks, but not for those same docs for a retirement-extension. 

 

Enforcement doesn't seem to be "really" about the issues they say it is -  they don't seem to give a hoot about illegal workers (see Cambodians and Burmese) or dirt-poor farangs (see the retirement-ghettos on Pattaya's dark-side) - as long as they are over 50.

Edited August 3, 2017 by JackThompson

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

1 hour ago, jenifer d said:

that doesn't seem to have troubled "my mate Nate" until his antics got out of hand-

my experience is that if your local immigration like you & you show respect- and they likewise,

they don't sweat the little things

 

And again, WP & labour laws etc., are not immigration matters, they are handled a by a different ministry, nothing to do with immigration and I'm quite surprised if immigration officers are making comments about WP's etc.

This is not quite true. One of the responsibilities of immigration officials (explicitly stated in the Immigration Act) is to exclude people from the country who are working illegally (see Section 12 (3)). You are, of course, correct though that immigration is not responsible for defining what constitutes illegal work.

[SS1]

It is possible to work legally from Thailand for an UK employer / online business when you have a local company sponsor your work permits for this job, depending on the type of work you do. This way you can get a work permit, visa and pay taxes in Thailand. 

Edited August 3, 2017 by SS1

[anon789561]

think the OP got the answers he required. this topic is boring. same old stuff, round and round we go haha

[elviajero]

35 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

It just says "work" - written at a time when remote-work didn't exist

It doesn't. It says "occupation" or "employment".

 

"Employment" covering anyone working for a company legally operating in Thailand, which is governed by the Alien Working (employment) Act, and "occupation" covering any other work.

 

I doubt it would be written differently now as they can easily exempt occupations involving "remote work", which is IMO is not going to happen.

[HampiK]

1 hour ago, zok7 said:

Thanks for the advice people.

 

As a follow up question. If I can't get a visa it looks unlikely I can get a thai bank account. What's the best practice for getting money from a UK bank account into Thai Baht ready to spend? I here Credit Cards/Debit Cards charge and then the Thai ATM's charge on top. How expensive is it? And is there a way round getting stung like this?

 

 

 

You should try to open an Thai bank account with kasikorn for example (in Bangkok try the one in shopping centers).

I opened one myself about (the last one in Klongsan area about 2 years ago without any problems.

I also was going with a friend to the Paragon Branch about 1 year ago and he could open an account with only the 30 days visa excempt stamp.

 

But at the end it depends on the branch and the person you ask. I hear many stories where they had problems opening an account without a longstay visa...

[rwdrwdrwd]

4 hours ago, Autonuaq said:

You have to pay taxes where the work is done.

 

And remotely means the work actually is done at the place of origin and that is where the money comes from.

 

World income you have to pay taxes over it. In this case the uk

 

No work permit possible because work is actually done remote in the uk.

 

That is what they told me not so long ago

There are a few issues with the points you made.

Yes UK sourced income of non residents is taxed in the UK, however income remitted to Thailand by a tax resident in the year it is earned is still subject to Thai income tax.  In this scenario it may well be zero rated due to dual taxation legislation, however I thought it sensible to point out that it's not as simple as 'tax is only paid where the income is sourced'.

The UK does not tax non UK income of non tax resident citizens, so it is not the case that one would have to pay taxes on 'world income' in the UK. Of course the Thai remittance rules would apply to this income and therefore it would end up taxed by Thailand, if remitted in that year.

For optimal tax efficiency OP I recommend that you incorporate an IBC in Seychelles and invoice the UK monthly from that company. Then get a personal bank account in Singapore and pay yourself in dividends from the Seychelles company, then keep it there until the next January 1st. You can then send it to Thailand completely free of any taxes worldwide. This works because the UK does not tax foreign income of non resident citizens, Seychelles does not apply corporate tax to foreign income of IBCs, Singapore does not apply tax to income of non residents, and Thailand does not tax income that is remitted in a different year to when it was earned. There are other options to Seychelles that would work (BVI, Hong Kong for example), but that one in my opinion is optimal since it doesn't require filing of yearly accounts, so bureaucracy is basically eliminated.

In terms of the Work Permit. If you do not wish to 'fly under the radar' as I suspect most do, if you wish to be 100% certain of your legal working status in Thailand, and if you wish to get easy visas without buying an Elite Visa, getting married to a Thai, or getting old, a solution like https://iglu.net will work for you. This can be used either with your current setup or the one I just described, and you only would need to run around $2500 a month of your income through it (you'll be charged $750 a month for the privilege though).

Edited August 3, 2017 by rwdrwdrwd

[zok7]

Thanks so much people. I didn't think it was possible to get a bank account on a non-working visa anymore but will give it a shot.

 

Final question, can anyone recommend me a good place to search for apartments. houses etc. I've been looking on siamrealestate.com but if anyone knows any better ones - all they seem to have is Phuket or Pattaya and I'd rather live somewhere a little less seedy.

 

The last time I was in Thailand I spent most of my time on various islands to the east. Koh Chang, Samui, etc.  Are these areas more expensive to rent a decent place? I'm after 2 bedrooms not too far from the beach with a pool. Creature comforts as I'm not 21 anymore. Somewhere fairly peaceful but with bars not to far when the mood takes me. 

 

 

(edit - ah just seen the separate areas on the forum for this question. Thanks all the same.)

 

 

 

Edited August 3, 2017 by zok7

[scorecard]

8 hours ago, SS1 said:

It is possible to work legally from Thailand for an UK employer / online business when you have a local company sponsor your work permits for this job, depending on the type of work you do. This way you can get a work permit, visa and pay taxes in Thailand. 

 

What do mean by 'local company'.

 

One possible route is a WP issued to you as an employee of a Law firm (probably run by farang), really meaning that they are acting as an agency for WPs.

 

Dubious at the least and involves several outrageous fees. 

[Baerboxer]

23 hours ago, over it said:

Get an ed visa. Stay under the radar. Been doing it for years on the retirement visa.

 

And that sort of advice is exactly why Education Visas are now much stricter. 

 

They are for education purposes not some handy alternative.

 

As for working. Flying under the radar is always risky. If there is no impact of the work on Thailand, then they might not be too interested. However, if you upset someone then they might. So be careful, keep it to yourself, and live nicely. The risk is there - manage it if you consider it acceptable.

[Tanoshi]

12 hours ago, zok7 said:

Thanks for the advice people.

 

As a follow up question. If I can't get a visa it looks unlikely I can get a thai bank account. What's the best practice for getting money from a UK bank account into Thai Baht ready to spend? I here Credit Cards/Debit Cards charge and then the Thai ATM's charge on top. How expensive is it? And is there a way round getting stung like this?

 

 

Yes you can. Just look through the banks websites for the conditions.

As an example;

 

.http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/PersonalBanking/SpecialServices/ForeignCustomers/Pages/Account.aspx
Even if you are in Thailand for only a short visit, you can open a savings account and get a debit card, which are convenient and cost-effective ways to manage your everyday finances.

A Bangkok Bank savings account is the first step to accessing our products and services. Savings accounts are passbook-based and you can also apply for a Be1st Debit card, which can be used at ATMs and to make purchases.

 

Tourists include the following visa types: Tourist, Transit, Visa on Arrival, Exemption Visa, Non-Immigrant MT
and S.

 

[chickenrunCM]

11 hours ago, SS1 said:

It is possible to work legally from Thailand for an UK employer / online business when you have a local company sponsor your work permits for this job, depending on the type of work you do. This way you can get a work permit, visa and pay taxes in Thailand. 

this is not true, you don´t need any permission to work for a company outside Thailand, as it doesn´t touch thai law. 

why you make statements when you don´t have any experience and proof of this matter`?

It will be under the law where your employer or company has their location. And as never anybody get fined for working on his computer in Thailand, I think this matter should be closed anyway. 

No foreigner can work by is own with work permitt! 

The only thing is you can employ people to work as digigal normades for you. This would break thai laws, because you employ them in Thailand.

[SS1]

4 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

What do mean by 'local company'.

 

One possible route is a WP issued to you as an employee of a Law firm (probably run by farang), really meaning that they are acting as an agency for WPs.

 

Dubious at the least and involves several outrageous fees. 

 

I mean a company like Iglu.net. Yes, those law firms providing work permits are quite dodgy indeed and doubt it's fully legal. 

 

1 hour ago, chickenrunCM said:

this is not true, you don´t need any permission to work for a company outside Thailand, as it doesn´t touch thai law. 

why you make statements when you don´t have any experience and proof of this matter`?

It will be under the law where your employer or company has their location. And as never anybody get fined for working on his computer in Thailand, I think this matter should be closed anyway. 

No foreigner can work by is own with work permitt! 

The only thing is you can employ people to work as digigal normades for you. This would break thai laws, because you employ them in Thailand.

I did not comment about the legality of working remotely from Thailand, but simply mentioned that it is possible to have a local company employ you to conduct your online work under them. This is a good solution for someone who wants to stay longer term in Thailand and become a local tax resident. 

 

If it comes to a stay of few months, I would not bother indeed. Nobody will care if you are working from your home laptop to a company that is not in Thailand. 

[zok7]

9 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Yes you can. Just look through the banks websites for the conditions.

As an example;

 

.http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/PersonalBanking/SpecialServices/ForeignCustomers/Pages/Account.aspx
Even if you are in Thailand for only a short visit, you can open a savings account and get a debit card, which are convenient and cost-effective ways to manage your everyday finances.

A Bangkok Bank savings account is the first step to accessing our products and services. Savings accounts are passbook-based and you can also apply for a Be1st Debit card, which can be used at ATMs and to make purchases.

 

Tourists include the following visa types: Tourist, Transit, Visa on Arrival, Exemption Visa, Non-Immigrant MT
and S.

 

This is fantastic news. Presumably they have branches all over Thailand or is this a Bangkok thing?

[balo]

Oh no , not another digital nomad thread .  

 

We can disagree but right now 200.000 people in Thailand are online doing freelance work from their laptops.

I am one of them . As long as you stay home in your rented place or in a hotel nothing can stop you really .

Why ?'Because your job is not in Thailand, your salary bank account is not in Thailand, your tax is paid to your home country . You do not really live in Thailand on a permanent basis , since you kept your home address. No problems , just stop worrying too much , 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tanoshi]

44 minutes ago, zok7 said:

This is fantastic news. Presumably they have branches all over Thailand or is this a Bangkok thing?

All over, in every Province.

 

You can search for branch locations by Province here;

http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/WebServices/LocateUs/Pages/Default.aspx

[SS1]

23 hours ago, rwdrwdrwd said:

...
For optimal tax efficiency OP I recommend that you incorporate an IBC in Seychelles and invoice the UK monthly from that company. Then get a personal bank account in Singapore and pay yourself in dividends from the Seychelles company, then keep it there until the next January 1st. You can then send it to Thailand completely free of any taxes worldwide. This works because the UK does not tax foreign income of non resident citizens, Seychelles does not apply corporate tax to foreign income of IBCs, Singapore does not apply tax to income of non residents, and Thailand does not tax income that is remitted in a different year to when it was earned. There are other options to Seychelles that would work (BVI, Hong Kong for example), but that one in my opinion is optimal since it doesn't require filing of yearly accounts, so bureaucracy is basically eliminated.
...

Excellent post. With this setup, where would you recommend opening a corporate bank account for your Seychelles company? 

 

Also, does the income need to stay one year in a personal bank account, or could you keep it on your corporate account for one year and then pay yourself dividents still tax free in Thailand? 

 

I personally went for a HK company, but the bureaucracy is quite cumbersome indeed. I chose this route because I need PayPal, that doesn't accept a combination with company registration and bank account at different locations. 

[BritTim]

5 hours ago, SS1 said:

Also, does the income need to stay one year in a personal bank account, or could you keep it on your corporate account for one year and then pay yourself dividents still tax free in Thailand? 

To avoid tax in Thailand totally legally you must avoid transferring your personal income into Thailand in the year that it is earned. I am not a tax expert, but I do not think money in a corporate account is treated as your income until withdrawn on your behalf, or transferred into a personal account. Waiting a year before transferring it means it is personal income in the latter year, not the original year.

 

If there is a tax consultant here who regards the above as too simplistic, please do chip in. This is an area where I would like to become better informed also.

[Tanoshi]

Tax laws may be Country specific and no 'one' rule to cover all.

 

The UK have reciprocal tax agreements with Thailand.as an example.

Your income if taxed in the UK is not liable for tax in Thailand. This to prevent double taxation.