Health insurance vs non o visa

[tonbridgebrit]

12 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

So, what's your strategy for winning?  And if you have one, do you have a cost estimate for it?

Well, there isn't a strategy for winning. And if there isn't a way to win, how about pull out ?
Cost estimate ?  Well, it's costing a lot of money to have a load of soldiers in Afghanistan, taking part in a war that cannot be won. Pulling the soldiers out, and pay the locals to fight each other will be a cheaper. Actually, the locals don't need to be paid to fight each other, they'ill fight each other without being paid to do so.

Edited August 3, 2017 by tonbridgebrit

[tonbridgebrit]

10 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

That's the reality I've always been afraid of being the case. But what's the alternative/end result if the U.S. and coalition participants walk away?  Nothing there presents itself as a very appealing option for the future.

 

If the US walks away, what is the result ?  Afghanistan will never become a democracy if the US walks away, but it will never become a democracy if the US stays in Afghanistan. After 16 years, lots of Afghan people are simply not interested in embracing things like :  total freedom for women, homosexuality, everybody will be allowed to vote, and allow everybody to say what they want to say (freedom of speech). 

What's the point of Washington stayng in Afghanistan ? There isn't one.  And ISIS, doing their stuff in Europe, I don't think ISIS are the same guys in Afghanistan. So, staying in Afghanistan does not actually reduce terrorism in Europe.

[nasanews]

The reason Americans went to Afghanistan was to go after bin Laden, he is killed and surely U.S army can not defeat Taliban.

Get out of there asap.

[pegman]

11 hours ago, Can samui said:

News flash troops.......
Nobody will ever "win" in Afghanistan.
I speak from experience after spending the better part of seven years there in both Kabul and Kandahar.
It is an ancient tribal society that will never embrace democracy in any form. The national passtime of Afghans is fighting. They only come together when a foreign power invades and after they leave the Afghans go back to fighting each other.
The arrogance of that fat windbag Trump to assume he, in his infinite wisdom, can force another commander to win is amazing.
Afghanistan is a swamp which is tremendously difficult to extricate ones self from. I do not claim to know how, I only know that it can never be won.
I weep for the people who have lost their lives in the conflict. I knew a great many truly good Afghans and participated in way too many ramp ceremonies sending fallen troops home.
Just wish I knew the answer.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

Well the answer my friend is given at the top of your great post. This is what a journalist I respect has to say about this. He, like Trump is New York City born but also a Vietnam War Vet who didn't get his rich daddy to payoff the recruitment office.

 

https://ericmargolis.com/2016/10/afghanistan-fools-war/

[Grouse]

Intractable without sorting out Pakistan first. Pakistan is far from being a real state. More a collection of tribal areas. The Pashtuns don't recognise the border with Afghanistan which was arbitrarily drawn by the British anyway. Too complex to even discuss here but the best bet is get close to both Iran and India.

[Ruffian Dick]

When you're up to your ass in alligators, it's easy to forget that your original idea was to drain the swamp.  I agree with Can Samui. You don't bomb a country into being reasonable; that's not how it works. I am a great believer in the ability of western civilization to destroy foreign cultures. The USA should be building shopping malls in Cuba, for instance. Afghans just need to be so spoiled by consumer goods that they are afraid to fight anymore.

Seriously, Senator McCain said it best: we need to stay there for the duration, as we have in Korea, Japan and Germany.

[Ruffian Dick]

10 hours ago, Can samui said:

Close Silurian but I think the Afghans will play with the Chinese if ya know what I mean...


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

Hmmm... maybe they'd like to take over?

[observer90210]

Nothing has changed since 16 years and the area is in a bigger mess then before the Soviets started to meddle in the first place.

 

Many are making big bucks in these wars.

 

The Afghan stunt has drained trillions in US Taxpayer's money.

 

BTW. what about the millions of homeless, with no medicaid, on the streets of US Metros?

[observer90210]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Intractable without sorting out Pakistan first. Pakistan is far from being a real state. More a collection of tribal areas. The Pashtuns don't recognise the border with Afghanistan which was arbitrarily drawn by the British anyway. Too complex to even discuss here but the best bet is get close to both Iran and India.

A highly sensible analysis Mr Grouse!...

 

India has been warning the USA since the 70ies that Pakistan is a terrorist state. The US has bluntly ignored the warnings from India....ignored until a certain morning in September 2001 with a merciless wake up call.

 

As for Iran, they would seem one of the very rare mid east nations having a certain degree of influence and respect amongst certain radical mouvements.

 

[thehelmsman]

Democracy will never work in Afghanistan, just not in their DNA. Same with Iraq, we should have put Hussein back in power. He kept his folks under control.

[pegman]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

Intractable without sorting out Pakistan first. Pakistan is far from being a real state. More a collection of tribal areas. The Pashtuns don't recognise the border with Afghanistan which was arbitrarily drawn by the British anyway. Too complex to even discuss here but the best bet is get close to both Iran and India.

So the question of when will these guys ever learn is answered, NEVER!

[simple1]

3 hours ago, Grouse said:

Intractable without sorting out Pakistan first. Pakistan is far from being a real state. More a collection of tribal areas. The Pashtuns don't recognise the border with Afghanistan which was arbitrarily drawn by the British anyway. Too complex to even discuss here but the best bet is get close to both Iran and India.

You will recall the mass murder by Islamists of Pakistani military families children. Since that time . Pakistan has revamped it's efforts to suppress the Pakistani Taliban and other Islamist groups and has killed thousands during combat operations and hanged many in detention; at the same time a tremendous toll on Pakistani civilians and security forces. Plus huge numbers of Afghan refugees in Pakistan for which a final resolution has yet to be found.

 

Iran, Afghanistan & India have for a number of years sought to find a means to resolve their difference and address the destabilisation of Afghanistan with the resultant impact on their countries e.g. the alliance between Iran, India and Afghanistan with Chabahar port, the million of so Afghan refugees in Iran & India. attempts at ethnic cleansing of Shia etc

 

Afghan Taliban recommenced the production of opium (estimated 90% of illegal heroin supply worldwide) which has led to tens of thousands of deaths outside of Afghanistan, including the US, does seem people posting are unaware of this issue.

Edited August 3, 2017 by simple1

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

You will recall the mass murder by Islamists of Pakistani military families children. Since that time . Pakistan has revamped it's efforts to suppress the Pakistani Taliban and other Islamist groups and has killed thousands during combat operations and hanged many in detention; at the same time a tremendous toll on Pakistani civilians and security forces. Plus huge numbers of Afghan refugees in Pakistan for which a final resolution has yet to be found.

 

Iran, Afghanistan & India have for a number of years sought to find a means to resolve their difference and address the destabilisation of Afghanistan with the resultant impact on their countries e.g. the alliance between Iran, India and Afghanistan with Chabahar port, the million of so Afghan refugees in Iran & India. attempts at ethnic cleansing of Shia etc

 

Afghan Taliban recommenced the production of opium (estimated 90% of illegal heroin supply worldwide) which has led to tens of thousands of deaths outside of Afghanistan, including the US, does seem people posting are unaware of this issue.

Gwadar in Baluchistan is part of a huge Chinese push to open a corridor through Pakistan down to the gulf. Most of Pakistani mineral wealth is in Baluchistan. In this part of the world, soft power seems to be the thing. Not sure the Americans are up to this sort of thing.

 

As for Afghan poppies, agent orange would be my choice.

[simple1]

7 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Gwadar in Baluchistan is part of a huge Chinese push to open a corridor through Pakistan down to the gulf. Most of Pakistani mineral wealth is in Baluchistan. In this part of the world, soft power seems to be the thing. Not sure the Americans are up to this sort of thing.

 

 

"As for Afghan poppies, agent orange would be my choice".

 

IMO wrong choice as cement resistance by the rural community. What was not committed to and followed up was to assist farmers (protection and support) to move to meaningful alternative cash crops i.e. a tool for counter terrorism strategy

[Rancid]

21 hours ago, canopus1969 said:

US military are dragging this out on purpose - remember War is good business  and makes many Americans rich.  Dump is quite right to kick the top brass, 16 years and nothing to show for it, pathetic

 

Either win it or get out

Sadly they use nationalism and fake news to rally support for these illegal wars, the families of those killed get a flag for the coffin, while those that instigate it get new private jets and mansions. The whole thing is a crime and an obscenity. The sociopaths that manufacture these wars for personal gain, or their families, are of course never seen near the front lines. When will the canon fodder wake up to what is really going on?

[halloween]

15 hours ago, JulesMad said:

Why does "The Greatest" himself not go to Afghanistan??? Piece of cake for the 'fearless' leader.... Just lie a bit and bully the Taliban away

The Taliban will shit their pants (of laughter!) when the hypocrite coward would come. I know, it will never happen.... trumpy probably does not have a clue when Afghanistan is

 

I'm sure he knows where Afghanistan is on a map. Wars are how Americans learn geography.

[pegman]

3 hours ago, Grouse said:

 

 

As for Afghan poppies, agent orange would be my choice.

How do you propose to deploy Trump?

[selftaopath]

22 hours ago, simple1 said:

The architecture was agreed at the Tokyo Conference in 2012 for goals to be achieved by 2024 in Afghanistan. Perhaps Trump should familiarise himself with the document, before launching into a tirade, to ascertain what needs to be re-tuned, re-vitalised political engagement with regional power players, the emergence of ISIS in Afghanistan etc etc

 

http://www.mofa.go.jp/region/middle_e/afghanistan/tokyo_conference_2012/tokyo_declaration_en1.html

Lastly, Trump  sees himself as the best of the best, so rather than complaining, has Trump made any constructive contributions to strategic / tactical matters with reference to Afghanistan.

45 could always go there and see for himself. lol lol Oh yea.... but I think he limits himself to speaking to sailors on battleships etc. lol 

[tonray]

Apparently Bannon is pushing his plan to outsource the war to Erik Prince (formerly founder of Blacwater). He has re-branded himself with a new company and flashy brochures. Yeah BTW he is the brother of Trump's Education Secretary Betsy Devi's.. Trump loves family businesses. The generals ate fighting this  

[tonray]

34 minutes ago, selftaopath said:

45 could always go there and see for himself. lol lol Oh yea.... but I think he limits himself to speaking to sailors on battleships etc. lol 

"You guys have a beautiful ship, ok?  Not like that dump I live in. Did I tell you about my popular vote win yet? "

[simple1]

9 minutes ago, tonray said:

Apparently Bannon is pushing his plan to outsource the war to Erik Prince <snip>

Couldn't believe until I came across a creditable source article - mind boggling!

 

In a recent Wall Street Journal op-ed, Prince laid out a plan whereby the fighting force would be led by an American viceroy who would report directly to Trump.

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/07/afghanistan-erik-prince-trump-britain/533580/

[tonray]

3 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Couldn't believe until I came across a creditable source article - mind boggling!

 

In a recent Wall Street Journal op-ed, Prince laid out a plan whereby the fighting force would be led by an American viceroy who would report directly to Trump.

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/07/afghanistan-erik-prince-trump-britain/533580/

Erik fails to mention the part we he gets very rich and he and his men get immunity from prosecution. Another swamp bug

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, pegman said:

How do you propose to deploy Trump?

Good question.

 

I thought go in low, below good taste, about 300m off the deck. Just before release, rapid climb just prior to release. He will be under no guidance except his own internal gyros. He will ping the target with tweets before make a great impact, very great impact.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, tonray said:

Apparently Bannon is pushing his plan to outsource the war to Erik Prince (formerly founder of Blacwater). He has re-branded himself with a new company and flashy brochures. Yeah BTW he is the brother of Trump's Education Secretary Betsy Devi's.. Trump loves family businesses. The generals ate fighting this  

 

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

Couldn't believe until I came across a creditable source article - mind boggling!

 

In a recent Wall Street Journal op-ed, Prince laid out a plan whereby the fighting force would be led by an American viceroy who would report directly to Trump.

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/07/afghanistan-erik-prince-trump-britain/533580/

 

1 hour ago, tonray said:

Erik fails to mention the part we he gets very rich and he and his men get immunity from prosecution. Another swamp bug

 

And then there are these tidbits....

 

Blackwater founder Erik Prince eyes opportunities with China

https://www.ft.com/content/e6942960-19e9-11e7-bcac-6d03d067f81f

 

Blackwater founder's FSG buys stake in Chinese security school

http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-china-silkroad-companies-idUKKBN18Q0WR

 

Trump associate Erik Prince 'helping China create private army'

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/trump-associate-erik-prince-helping-china-create-private-army-1607040

 

Company run by Blackwater founder Erik Prince to open bases in China

http://www.atimes.com/article/blackwaters-eric-prince-open-bases-china/

 

 

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, tonray said:

Erik fails to mention the part we he gets very rich and he and his men get immunity from prosecution. Another swamp bug

You're forgetting the hat! A viceroy gets a great hat!

[simple1]

37 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

 

 

And then there are these tidbits....

 

Blackwater founder Erik Prince eyes opportunities with China

https://www.ft.com/content/e6942960-19e9-11e7-bcac-6d03d067f81f

 

Blackwater founder's FSG buys stake in Chinese security school

http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-china-silkroad-companies-idUKKBN18Q0WR

 

Trump associate Erik Prince 'helping China create private army'

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/trump-associate-erik-prince-helping-china-create-private-army-1607040

 

Company run by Blackwater founder Erik Prince to open bases in China

http://www.atimes.com/article/blackwaters-eric-prince-open-bases-china/

 

 

There's more,  likely a lot more. Mercenaries hired by UAE are fighting and dying in Yemen, think mainly Colombians 'cause they're cheap, guess who together with an Australian guy. They've been accused of practising torture and 'disappearances' in Yemen.

 

https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/news/2017/7/7/the-uae-is-employing-blackwater-to-run-its-army

Edited August 4, 2017 by simple1

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, simple1 said:

There's more,  mercenaries hired by UAE are fighting and dying in Yemen, think mainly Colombians 'cause they're cheap, guess who...

 

https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/news/2017/7/7/the-uae-is-employing-blackwater-to-run-its-army

 

He's got his fingers in many pies, but the PRC connections are more relevant to the OP.

[simple1]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

He's got his fingers in many pies, but the PRC connections are more relevant to the OP.

Understood.

[selftaopath]

23 hours ago, dunroaming said:

Actually the US don't have a good record when it comes to wars.  They certainly have the fire power and a lot of brave men, women and LGBTs who will lay down their lives for their country.  Unfortunately that isn't enough when fighting an enemy within.

And 45 and his regime is the most dangerous enemy within U.S. has ever seen with an enabling Republican party. (R) stands for Russia.

[observer90210]

13 hours ago, thehelmsman said:

Democracy will never work in Afghanistan, just not in their DNA. Same with Iraq, we should have put Hussein back in power. He kept his folks under control.

The whole mess in the area started with ousting Saddam (for oil) and then Khadafi...(for boosting arms sales)