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[webfact]

Dozens of migrants run across border in Spanish enclave

 

African migrants react after crossing the border from Morocco to Spain's North African enclave of Ceuta, Spain, early August 7, 2017. REUTERS/Jesus Moron

 

MADRID (Reuters) - Dozens of sub-Saharan migrants crossed into Spain from Morocco in the early hours of Monday after running through a border gate into the enclave of Ceuta, emergency services said.

 

Migrants frequently attempt to storm the borders of Spain's two enclaves in northern Africa, Ceuta and Melilla, often clambering up fences which are up to 6 metres tall and topped by razor wire.

 

On Monday a group of more than 100 migrants ran through one gate in the fence usually used as a border control, surprising Moroccan and Spanish security forces, a Reuters witness said.

 

The Red Cross said it had assisted 186 people following the morning rush across the border, adding that four migrants were taken to hospital.

 

Once inside Spain's enclaves, migrants are usually taken to temporary shelters and later moved to the Spanish mainland, or returned to their country of origin.

 

Many migrants try to enter Spain as a means of reaching other parts of Europe. Arrivals through Ceuta and Melilla, as well as the number of migrants attempting to cross into Spain by sea from North Africa has risen this year, although the route between Libya and Italy remains the most popular.

 

The Red Cross said last week it had attended 7,400 migrants crossing into mainland Spain and Ceuta and Melilla so far this year, up from 3,600 in the same period a year ago.

 

(Writing by Sarah White; Editing by Angus MacSwan)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-08-07

[i claudius]

This is just the tide coming in .wait for the tsunam in years to come ,the west as we new it is finished,

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[wwest5829]

6 hours ago, i claudius said:

This is just the tide coming in .wait for the tsunam in years to come ,the west as we new it is finished,

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Yes, and it will get worse and there is no stopping it with The Donald's wall, wealthy Americans buying guns, voting for Brexit  or otherwise. Now, do we wring our hands or look for what is causing the mass migration? Wars ... gee, what a surprise people flee to safety. Economic income wealth gap ... gee people flee to where they believe there is better economic times. The income/wealth gap has grown too wide. It is not sustainable at this level. You do not want Middle Eastern migration? Stop bombing the people. Not rocket science ... read some history....

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed:

 

7. Please do not post off-topic responses in an attempt to hijack the thread. Such posts will be deleted. 

[iReason]

1 hour ago, blowin said:

A race invasion springs to mind George Soros must be a happy man.

 

What is a "race invasion"?

[vandv]

at least little britain has one big moat surrounding it to stem the flow

[peterb17]

3 hours ago, wwest5829 said:

Yes, and it will get worse and there is no stopping it with The Donald's wall, wealthy Americans buying guns, voting for Brexit 

 or otherwise. Now, do we wring our hands or look for what is causing the mass migration? Wars ... gee, what a surprise people flee to safety. Economic income wealth gap ... gee people flee to where they believe there is better economic times. The income/wealth gap has grown too wide. It is not sustainable at this level. You do not want Middle Eastern migration? Stop bombing the people. Not rocket science ... read some history....

I presume you are American, therefore you can look at what is going on in Europe from afar. Countries such as Italy and Greece are becoming overwhelmed. 

 

I would agree with you - the mess in the Middle East was precipitated by Blair & Bush. The people fleeing Syria etc are genuine refugees.

 

The young men pictured are not refugees- they are economic migrants- do you think it acceptable that  taxpayers should pay for them- I sadly doubt they have much education.

 

The main problem is over population, then add corrupt governments ( money siphoned off shore runs into billions) who seem incapable of looking after their own people. 

 

Its  a mess, borders and fences are already rising in Europe- there are millions and millions trying to get into Europe- the land of milk and honey- sadly it's not- creaking under vast debt to provide social welfare for its own citizens. 

 

 

 

 

 

[foxboy]

Wait for all the Liberals to say "it's not fair.. they have a right to go and live wherever they want, we all share the same planet etc, etc".

 

It's a sad situation for these people, but storming borders en masse merely passes the burden of responsibility for their welfare to the recipient countries. Now that isn't fair! 

[Saradoc1972]

The problem is that Europe has walled itself in a plethora of "human rights" legislation that will be hard to curtail or reverse. Most of that, the ECHR from 1953, the Geneve Convention from 1957, were not made for this sort of situation(s). And the Court of Human Rights has developed, i.e. widened,  its interpretation of what is the extend of a human right laid down in that convention to things and extends never intended by the democratically legitimated lawmakers and governments that once signed it, all the time ascertaining its jurisdiction over an ever greater gamut of things.. A bit like the German Constitutional Court, but at least that can be fixed to some extend and the judges acknowledge changing circumstances and pressing needs.

 

The situation in Ceuta and Melilla is ridiculous. Win the right to apply for asylum if you can make 3x6m hurdles and dodge or strike down guards to get both feet on Spanish soil to then cry touchdown!. 10000s of people camping wild in the surrounding hills, Spain paying the Moroccan government to shoo them away or prevent hundreds of them making a prearranged sally, and from time to time deport them down south to the desert to never be heard from or of. So Morocco is using the truncheons, tear gas and guns, Spain is prohibited from using effectively, demanding ever more ransom to do so, or Spain gets swarmed like that. That is at least the third time this year, maybe including the Christmas week before, when they know fewer numbers of Spanish guards to be on patrol because of the holidays. I recall one Spanish police officer having lost an eye last time, probably hit by a rock or a rebar when trying to fend the illegals off. They can't even use rubber bullets by now, because one guy drowned trying to swim (which he couldn't) past the wall Spain had to build into the shore. And he wasn't even actually hit by one. Likewise had to take down the razor wire from the fences as people started intentionally cutting themselves up so bad they knew they would be taken to a Spanish hospital once down the fence. It is these peoples' human rights against those of the officers guarding the area.

 

Will get worse by the day unless Spain (and everybody else) scraps legislation or international accords everybody knows are from a bygone era where there were no inflatable dinghies, no GPS positioning, no mobile phones, and much less overpopulation and welfare for the take in the world. Plain statement: there is no asylum in Ceuta and Melilla, go play American Gladiator with obstacles and fences elsewhere. You make it past the fences, it's just back to Morocco, you hurl rocks at our guards, tell the Red Cross in Morocco where the evil man shot you. You can't shoot at people? Oh yes, you can. It's being done in France and Germany when somebody acts up with a knife or gun, just sadly not at the borders but inside our cities.

[Scott]

1 hour ago, foxboy said:

Wait for all the Liberals to say "it's not fair.. they have a right to go and live wherever they want, we all share the same planet etc, etc".

 

It's a sad situation for these people, but storming borders en masse merely passes the burden of responsibility for their welfare to the recipient countries. Now that isn't fair! 

I certainly don't know any of the liberals, with the exception of some of the extreme folks who don't believe there should be any borders, who think that people should have the right to live wherever they want.  

 

Most 'liberals' believe that people have the right to claim asylum.   If it is denied, then they should be deported.   Most people can't look at a picture and instantly figure out that they are ALL economic migrants, with the exception of some of the more astute members of Thaivisa.  

 

Every country needs to have the right to limit the number and types of people who are allowed to immigrate.   Most countries has quotas on how many refugees they will accept.

 

I don't doubt that many of these people are economic migrants and it appears that the Spanish gov't has a system in place for those to be removed by the Moroccan authorities. 

[Jonmarleesco]

5 hours ago, vandv said:

at least little britain has one big moat surrounding it to stem the flow

Connected to the continent by a tunnel that often seems like one big undersea drawbridge.

[wwest5829]

11 hours ago, peterb17 said:

I presume you are American, therefore you can look at what is going on in Europe from afar. Countries such as Italy and Greece are becoming overwhelmed. 

 

I would agree with you - the mess in the Middle East was precipitated by Blair & Bush. The people fleeing Syria etc are genuine refugees.

 

The young men pictured are not refugees- they are economic migrants- do you think it acceptable that  taxpayers should pay for them- I sadly doubt they have much education.

 

The main problem is over population, then add corrupt governments ( money siphoned off shore runs into billions) who seem incapable of looking after their own people. 

 

Its  a mess, borders and fences are already rising in Europe- there are millions and millions trying to get into Europe- the land of milk and honey- sadly it's not- creaking under vast debt to provide social welfare for its own citizens. 

 

 

 

 

 

Guilty as charged, an American. Redeeming social value, in that, I have friends posting to my FB page from 5 continents including one FB friend in Italy who lets me know, in no uncertain terms the problems Italy is facing. I do not view the economic migration as much a problem of overpopulation as much as the economic issues you also have pointed out. It is not only corrupt officials in those countries ripping off the people and country resources. There is a long history of western economic interests ripping off the peoples of those lands. My point is that, in order to address the force behind the migration, an economic balancing must come about or the flow to regions rumored to have better economic potential. I do not know gov't policy in the EU as to support for illegal immigrants, in the US (never mind the right wing reports), the law does not allow public money support.

[cream]

Classic case of Problem,

                            Reaction,

                            Solution.

 

It's all part of the plan to dilute customs, cultures and certain religions all around the world starting with Europe.

 

Back track to Sept 11 1991 some might recall George Bush Seniors speech of a New World Order. 

It's been happening ever since before our eyes and this is a perfect example.

Their agenda is Globalisation, one world government, one world currency = control over every single person.

 

Who's responsible for this ? it's the 1% of the worlds extremely wealthy people and families most have never heard of                                                                                  as any photographs or information has been suppressed.

They own and control the Banks, Oil, Gold, Drugs, Stock Markets, News and Media, Governments etc 

 

How they are able to do this ?  Same way that it is done here in Thailand - Corruption, Blackmail and Bribery.

 

 

[giddyup]

Wondering how long before basket case countries like Angola join the flood. Another African country that is mega rich in oil, gold and diamonds, but virtually none of the proceeds are used to help it's citizens. Read Paul Theroux's account of Angola (The last train to Zona Verde), it's a living hell.

Edited August 8, 2017 by giddyup

[Baerboxer]

15 hours ago, peterb17 said:

I presume you are American, therefore you can look at what is going on in Europe from afar. Countries such as Italy and Greece are becoming overwhelmed. 

 

I would agree with you - the mess in the Middle East was precipitated by Blair & Bush. The people fleeing Syria etc are genuine refugees.

 

The young men pictured are not refugees- they are economic migrants- do you think it acceptable that  taxpayers should pay for them- I sadly doubt they have much education.

 

The main problem is over population, then add corrupt governments ( money siphoned off shore runs into billions) who seem incapable of looking after their own people. 

 

Its  a mess, borders and fences are already rising in Europe- there are millions and millions trying to get into Europe- the land of milk and honey- sadly it's not- creaking under vast debt to provide social welfare for its own citizens. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Indeed. If you look at countries with good economic growth and development rates, the countries perhaps that will take over as the leading powers of the future - China, India, some SEA countries, you see a difference. They do not tolerate illegal economic immigrants and refugees and illegal immigrants shy away from them. Because they know illegal activities aren't tolerates, little or no free hand outs and not lots of NGO's carping on about their HR, wanting to give them more, and actually, sometimes illegally, helping them in.

 

The difference is the West European countries are dominated by liberalism and political correctness. So they are targeted. Look at the picture. Young fit strong looking men. No old people, women, children. Now, how will those men react if they don't get given all they demand?

 

 

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, giddyup said:

Wondering how long before basket case countries like Angola join the flood. Another African country that is mega rich in oil, gold and diamonds, but virtually none of the proceeds are used to help it's citizens. Read Paul Theroux's account of Angola (The last train to Zona Verde), it's a living hell.

 

Isn't Angloa another example of a socialist paradise? Where all citizens are equal but some are more equal?

 

Know a few people who fought there.

[giddyup]

3 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Isn't Angloa another example of a socialist paradise? Where all citizens are equal but some are more equal?

 

Know a few people who fought there.

It's a republic with a president who is head of state and government. All the considerable wealth is distributed among he and his cronies. Just another despot like Mugabe.

[baansgr]

Obama and Blair are to blame, very little of this happened befor Gadaffi was overthrown and killed. Those two murderers have a lot to answer for in the illegal wars they started and the mess left behind and should hold their heads in shame

[WaywardWind]

6 minutes ago, baansgr said:

Obama and Blair are to blame, very little of this happened befor Gadaffi was overthrown and killed. Those two murderers have a lot to answer for in the illegal wars they started and the mess left behind and should hold their heads in shame

You are wrong.

 

We lived in Malta for 10 years starting in 2001, and migrant boats were a daily occurrence. No one had even heard of Barack Obama at that point.

 

I do remember reading of one study by a Spanish university which demonstrated that the average annual income in the countries on the north side of the Med were ten times those in countries on the south.  With that level of disparity, you will not stop people from trying to come across to better their lives, no matter how hard you try.

[simple1]

10 minutes ago, WaywardWind said:

You are wrong.

 

We lived in Malta for 10 years starting in 2001, and migrant boats were a daily occurrence. No one had even heard of Barack Obama at that point.

 

I do remember reading of one study by a Spanish university which demonstrated that the average annual income in the countries on the north side of the Med were ten times those in countries on the south.  With that level of disparity, you will not stop people from trying to come across to better their lives, no matter how hard you try.

I remember sitting in a small beach bar in Jamaica with a US TV sitcom show on with all the Western wealth on display, with poverty all around me, having the same thoughts.

Edited August 8, 2017 by simple1

[Khun Han]

28 minutes ago, baansgr said:

Obama and Blair are to blame, very little of this happened befor Gadaffi was overthrown and killed. Those two murderers have a lot to answer for in the illegal wars they started and the mess left behind and should hold their heads in shame

 

As much as I despise Blair, the mess in Libya was created by Obama and Cameron.

[baansgr]

Just now, WaywardWind said:

You are wrong.

 

We lived in Malta for 10 years starting in 2001, and migrant boats were a daily occurrence. No one had even heard of Barack Obama at that point.

 

I do remember reading of one study by a Spanish university which demonstrated that the average annual income in the countries on the north side of the Med were ten times those in countries on the south.  With that level of disparity, you will not stop people from trying to come across to better their lives, no matter how hard you try.

1,500-2000 per year at that time. no where near on the scale we are seeing now of 1.5 million a year due to events in Syria, Afghan and no help from the Libyan coastguard as when Gadaffi was in power. The illegal wars started by those two and their puppets was the catalyst to human trafficking and the suffering that is happening now. Its easily stopped but no Western leader has the backbone to do anything. The UK sets aside 13 Billion in foreign aid, this could be channeled to  Africa and the Middle East to ease what is happening.

[baansgr]

Just now, Khun Han said:

 

As much as I despise Blair, the mess in Libya was created by Obama and Cameron.

Oh yes Cameron too

[simple1]

31 minutes ago, baansgr said:

1,500-2000 per year at that time. no where near on the scale we are seeing now of 1.5 million a year due to events in Syria, Afghan and no help from the Libyan coastguard as when Gadaffi was in power. The illegal wars started by those two and their puppets was the catalyst to human trafficking and the suffering that is happening now. Its easily stopped but no Western leader has the backbone to do anything. The UK sets aside 13 Billion in foreign aid, this could be channeled to  Africa and the Middle East to ease what is happening.

Gadaffi and Berlusconi were such a good guys weren't they...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/sep/01/eu-muammar-gaddafi-immigration

 

http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2063399,00.html

[giddyup]

33 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Gadaffi and Berlusconi were such a good guys weren't they...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/sep/01/eu-muammar-gaddafi-immigration

 

http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2063399,00.html

Never stopped the US from propping up bad guys before when it suited them.

[WaywardWind]

1 hour ago, baansgr said:

1,500-2000 per year at that time. no where near on the scale we are seeing now of 1.5 million a year due to events in Syria, Afghan and no help from the Libyan coastguard as when Gadaffi was in power. The illegal wars started by those two and their puppets was the catalyst to human trafficking and the suffering that is happening now. Its easily stopped but no Western leader has the backbone to do anything. The UK sets aside 13 Billion in foreign aid, this could be channeled to  Africa and the Middle East to ease what is happening.

Wrong again.

 

Here's a line from a Council on Foreign Relations report from 2007:

"With over one million migrants a year and 299,000 asylum applications in 2006 alone, Europe is the primary destination for migrants worldwide. Countries bordering the Mediterranean Sea such as Spain, Italy, and Malta are most affected. "

https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/african-migration-europe

 

 And here's some from Oxford in 2007 as well:

"Europe has long been familiar with irregular migration from the Maghreb. Since Spain and Italy introduced visa requirements for Maghrebi immigrants in the early 1990s, hundreds of thousands of Maghrebis have attempted to cross the Mediterranean illegally in pateras (small fishing boats chartered by smugglers),speedboats, hidden in vans and trucks, or carrying false papers. However, as the migration crises in Morocco's Spanish enclaves in 2005 and Spain's Canary Islands in 2006 exemplified, sub‐Saharan Africans have increasingly joined Maghrebis in their attempts to cross the Mediterranean since 2000."

https://afrique-europe-interact.net/files/de_haas_2008_-_myth_of_migration_artikel_.pdf

 

What is it about Barack Obama that makes people want to distort the facts to lay blame on him??

 

 

[simple1]

30 minutes ago, WaywardWind said:

Wrong again.

 

Here's a line from a Council on Foreign Relations report from 2007:

"With over one million migrants a year and 299,000 asylum applications in 2006 alone, Europe is the primary destination for migrants w

44 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Never stopped the US from propping up bad guys before when it suited them.

orldwide. Countries bordering the Mediterranean Sea such as Spain, Italy, and Malta are most affected. "

https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/african-migration-europe

 

 And here's some from Oxford in 2007 as well:

"Europe has long been familiar with irregular migration from the Maghreb. Since Spain and Italy introduced visa requirements for Maghrebi immigrants in the early 1990s, hundreds of thousands of Maghrebis have attempted to cross the Mediterranean illegally in pateras (small fishing boats chartered by smugglers),speedboats, hidden in vans and trucks, or carrying false papers. However, as the migration crises in Morocco's Spanish enclaves in 2005 and Spain's Canary Islands in 2006 exemplified, sub‐Saharan Africans have increasingly joined Maghrebis in their attempts to cross the Mediterranean since 2000."

https://afrique-europe-interact.net/files/de_haas_2008_-_myth_of_migration_artikel_.pdf

 

What is it about Barack Obama that makes people want to distort the facts to lay blame on him??

 

 

Good question, what has the previous Obama Administration got to do with asylum seekers / economic migrants departing from a Spanish enclave in North Africa?

[simple1]

44 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Never stopped the US from propping up bad guys before when it suited them.

Nor the Australian government

[baansgr]

Just now, WaywardWind said:

Wrong again.

 

Here's a line from a Council on Foreign Relations report from 2007:

"With over one million migrants a year and 299,000 asylum applications in 2006 alone, Europe is the primary destination for migrants worldwide. Countries bordering the Mediterranean Sea such as Spain, Italy, and Malta are most affected. "

https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/african-migration-europe

 

 And here's some from Oxford in 2007 as well:

"Europe has long been familiar with irregular migration from the Maghreb. Since Spain and Italy introduced visa requirements for Maghrebi immigrants in the early 1990s, hundreds of thousands of Maghrebis have attempted to cross the Mediterranean illegally in pateras (small fishing boats chartered by smugglers),speedboats, hidden in vans and trucks, or carrying false papers. However, as the migration crises in Morocco's Spanish enclaves in 2005 and Spain's Canary Islands in 2006 exemplified, sub‐Saharan Africans have increasingly joined Maghrebis in their attempts to cross the Mediterranean since 2000."

https://afrique-europe-interact.net/files/de_haas_2008_-_myth_of_migration_artikel_.pdf

 

What is it about Barack Obama that makes people want to distort the facts to lay blame on him??

 

 

I suppose its which media one reads and believes.

 

http://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwiN9_qZpMfVAhWMsI8KHf5uDDYQFggqMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.socialwatch.eu%2F2009%2Fdocuments%2FMalta.pdf&usg=AFQjCNFdgj2Mw0bFFqiCh6xENZxILyMNuQ

[simple1]

9 minutes ago, baansgr said:

I suppose its which media one reads and believes.

 

http://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwiN9_qZpMfVAhWMsI8KHf5uDDYQFggqMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.socialwatch.eu%2F2009%2Fdocuments%2FMalta.pdf&usg=AFQjCNFdgj2Mw0bFFqiCh6xENZxILyMNuQ

Though interesting, little relevance to the topic and overall people movement from North Africa into the EU, as only talks to people reaching Malta