Retirement Visa

[lopburi3]

the bank letter having to be issued on the same day one goes to apply for the OA extension?? Also,do you have to go to the same branch at which the account was opened (in my case was BKK bank on Sukhumvit,in BKK) to get the letter,or will any (in my case BKK bank) branch in the kingdom be able to do this?

The bank letter is supposed to be less than one week old from previous official web site information and believe that is still the normal word.

Bangkok Bank head office can issue letter but don't believe another branch office would do unless your account was with them. If you have multi accounts/branches they could probably arrange to obtain from head office for you. But this is a guess and many bank branches seem to operate by their own set of rules.

[Phil Clark]

Once I've obtained my retirement visa, it would be my intention to immediately apply for a multiple entry visa. I'm not sure how often I would be leaving the country each year but it would simplify matters for me just to pay the extra fees there and then. At least, it would ensure that i did not have to apply for a re-entry permit if I wanted to escape from Pattaya at Songkran.

Alan

How can you apply for a multiple entry visa after you have extended your 'O' visa for retirement purposes?

Do you mean a multiple re-entry permit?

If so, that will cost you 3,800 Baht and you can go out and back in as many times as you like during the extension period of your 'O' visa. You can apply for that as soon as you get your 'O' extension.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

He is new. Don't be pedantic, and let us all help. Of course a re-entry permit is what he means.

[ProThaiExpat]

lopburi3 is so right again! Last month, I went to the small branch near the house for my "bank letter" the same place I went last year, and was told "no way" had to be from the branch I have my account, Bangkok Bank by the way.

Getting the letter from my large branch, I had occasion to talk to the Manager and she said, any branch can issue the letter since they all have computer access to all accounts. She even offered to call the manager of the small branch and advise of that fact. I said mai pen rai and left it at that. Before comming to Thailand, I would have insisted the small branch manager be taken to task.

And who said immigration is the only place to get conflicting information!!!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Wise decision. You don't need the local bank manager off side. Altogether too hard to cope with.

[RDN]

RDN: Thanks for your less risky approach.  Please amplify regarding the financial responibility aspects of your method.

Sorry if anyone misunderstood my previous long post. I hope this clarifies what I said:

Are you saying that you can get a non-immigrant O-A (retirement) visa  with a 365 day extention  in U.K. WITHOUT having the 800K Baht in a Thai bank???

Absolutely not (I'm quite confused about how you could infer that from my post ). What you get is a "type O-A" (Other, Approved) visa which is valid for 3 months (this means you must use it to enter Thailand within 3 months of the issue date stamped on the visa) and because you are already "approved" (because of all the paperwork you presented at the Thai Embassy) the immigration officer at the desk at the airport must give you an entry stamp with a one year departure date.

The paperwork that you must present at the Embassy includes criminal record, health certificate AND the letter from the bank stating that the bank statement attached to the letter is correct (and shows 800,000 baht minimum). This is all done before you get the visa.

The only risk I can see to entering on a tourist visa, bringing the money in while here and then applying for the non-immigrant O retirement with 365 day extention during your first 30 days is the difficulty in returning your funds to the U.K.  if your turned down for the change of classification here. Am I missing something?

No - you are missing nothing, but maybe you underestimate the importance of being "turned down". If I had given up my well paid job, sold my house, etc and then came to Thailand to retire, and then find out I was rejected for some reason, it would have been a total disaster for me. I could not have got as good a job as I had, or house, or standard of living. I would have been devastated. But by getting the O-A visa, one-year stamp and multiple re-entry permit before I left work, etc. it meant that I knew absolutely that I could stay here.

I have written down the whole process, with dates, that I went through to get here, and I often think about posting it on a site such as this but am a little wary that people will find it boring. If you are interested, I could do it...

[JimGant]

maybe you underestimate the importance of being "turned down".

Good point. It's been discussed before on this forum about 'what if you flunk the physical and have already burned your bridges to home.' No one responded, which doesn't mean it hasn't happened. What does seem the consensus, however, is that if you develop problems after being here awhile ('awhile' not defined), immigration has the latitude to bend the rules for you. This would seem to be the other side of the immigration law coin: the whims of individual immigration officials can really annoy us -- but this flexibility can also work in our favor, if they choose.

Some interesting takes on the O-A visa from postings on this forum:

- Not as hard to accomplish as has been advertised, even at the notorious LA Consulate. (Can vary from case to case, of course.)

- One poster used an honorary consulate in the US, without difficulty, and his O-A visa was good for one year, with 'multiple entry' stamped on it. So, he's come in and out of Thailand several times since, each entry stamp good for 365 days.

- The above did not have to have the medical, criminal, and financial statements notarized, which is a stated requirement on embassy/consulate websites.

- Immigration is not that familiar with the O-A visa, and several posters had to call in higher horsepower at Don Muang to get the 365-day entry stamp.

And, as RDN says, you're preapproved before taking the leap. Sounds like it might be worth going thru the extra hoops (e.g, criminal check) for the resulting peace-of-mind.

[JimGant]

Oh, almost forgot--

RDN,

have written down the whole process, with dates, that I went through to get here, and I often think about posting it on a site such as this but am a little wary that people will find it boring. If you are interested, I could do it... 

Please do! I've already built a house in Thailand, but can come here only in 75-day chunks several times a year (due to elderly parents in States). So, I'm currently using NI "O" multiple entry. But someday soon I'll need to decide on the O-A approach, so any and all info you have would be appreciated. Thanx.

[ProThaiExpat]

RDN: We are misunderstanding each other. Perhaps, I should have said as a preface to my question, the safe approach is the best approach, and if you have time and want to do it at home, do so for the peace of mind involved.

However, there doesn't seem to be any risk in obtaining a tourist visa, taking a VACATION in Thailand and getting your long stay approved here, then going back home and taking the steps that sever your relationships, knowing your approved for long stay in Thailand.

Of course, there is the cost of the "vacation" to consider.

I would appreciate your expanding on the financial aspects. Does your approach involve money in a Thai bank or can you do it with funds in a home bank?

Do you know what difficulty there is involved in trying to take your 800K deposit out of Thailand, if you are turned down, after setting it up while on a tourist visa?

Does anyone know the answers to these questions?

[RDN]

RDN:  We are misunderstanding each other.  Perhaps, I should have said as a preface to my question, the safe approach is the best approach, and if you have time and want to do it at home, do so for the peace of mind involved.

However, there doesn't seem to be any risk in obtaining a tourist visa, taking a VACATION in Thailand and getting your long stay approved here, then going back home and taking the steps that sever your relationships, knowing your approved for long stay in Thailand.

Of course, there is the cost of the "vacation" to consider.

I would appreciate your expanding on the financial aspects.  Does your approach involve money in a Thai bank or can you do it with funds in a home bank?

Do you know what difficulty there is involved in trying to take your 800K deposit out of Thailand, if you are turned down, after setting it up while on a tourist visa?

Does anyone know the answers to these questions?

Yes! Of course! I don't know why I assumed that the people who enter on a tourist visa and then get their "long stay" approved, have already "burned their bridges" . Sorry! So now I don't believe there is a difference in the "risk" factor.

As for the financial aspects, sure, I had to have the 800,000 in a bank in Thailand in order to get the O-A visa in London - I opened the account on one of my holiday trips.

And as far as getting money out again, if you are turned down, the O-A visa route has the same problem as the tourist visa conversion route - once the money is here, how do you get it back out? Fortunately I have never had to do this. Maybe a 15 day vacation getting 60,000 baht out per day using your ATM card is one way . I have spoken to a bar owner about selling a car and getting the money out of Thailand (e.g. for people who have decided to go back to England but have a car to dispose of) and he reckoned it was near to impossible to transfer it out. But that's just "bar talk"...

Seems like I should post my complete experience of getting the O-A visa. Let me check what I've already written and I'll post it tonight.

[Phil Clark]

He is new. Don't be pedantic, and let us all help. Of course a re-entry permit is what he means.

Have a bad hair day Mr Pong?

If letting someone, new or not, know the correct procedure and terminology in a given situation is being pedantic, then yes I am a pedant and happy to be one.

Perhaps if more members took the trouble to point out misconceptions there would be less confusion and misunderstandings.

I wonder which form the Immigration Officer would have given him when he asked to apply for a multiple entry visa? Perhaps he would have simply told him that he would have to apply from a Consulate?

I believe that by telling the poster that he would need a multiple re-entry permit rather than a 'multiple entry visa', plus the cost and timing involved was being helpful.

He clearly did not know there was a difference: I suspect he now does.

What help did your pompous snipe provide, hmmm…?

[RDN]

He is new. Don't be pedantic, and let us all help. Of course a re-entry permit is what he means.

Have a bad hair day Mr Pong?

Now, now! Handbags at dawn ? We're all trying to help...

[JimGant]

RDN,

As for the financial aspects, sure, I had to have the 800,000 in a bank in Thailand in order to get the O-A visa in London

Seems to be some confusion over this. Others who have gotten O-A visas, at least in the States, have only had to show a dollar equivalent of 800k baht in their stateside banks. No requirement to have a Thai bank account -- until one year later at renewal time in Thailand.

Would make sense, however, that the Embassy/Consulate folks would honor amounts already in a Thai bank in lieu of amounts in your home of origin.

In theory, a benefit of the O-A is that you could obtain one without ever having been in Thailand. Then, once in Thailand, you have a year to decide whether or not the paradise your mates at the local bar described was correct or not.

[RDN]

RDN,

As for the financial aspects, sure, I had to have the 800,000 in a bank in Thailand in order to get the O-A visa in London

Seems to be some confusion over this. Others who have gotten O-A visas, at least in the States, have only had to show a dollar equivalent of 800k baht in their stateside banks. No requirement to have a Thai bank account -- until one year later at renewal time in Thailand.

Would make sense, however, that the Embassy/Consulate folks would honor amounts already in a Thai bank in lieu of amounts in your home of origin.

In theory, a benefit of the O-A is that you could obtain one without ever having been in Thailand. Then, once in Thailand, you have a year to decide whether or not the paradise your mates at the local bar described was correct or not.

Jim, I believe you! I've just had a look at the RTE website: http://www.thaiembassyuk.org.uk/thaiembassy.html and the procedure lists the following documents needed for O-A (Long Stay) visa applications:

2.1 Validity of passport at least 1 year

2.2 Three (3) visa application forms and 3 passport size recent photographs

2.3 Additional application form for Non-Immigrant “O-A” (Long Stay)

2.4 Copy of bank statement having in possession of annually income equivalent to Thai currency at least 800,000 Baht or monthly income 65,000 Baht. (approximately GBP 14,000.00/annum)

2.5 In case attached copy of bank statement as stated in 2.4, the original reference letter from the banking concerned is necessary.

2.6 Criminal Record from own country or country of permanent residence of validity at least 3 months.

2.7 Medical Record proving applicant has never been infected with contagious disease with validity at least 3 months (in accordance with Immigration Act B.E.2522)

2.8 In case wishing to be accompanied by spouse, the marriage certificate will be attached. But spouse will be granted Non-Immigrant “O” in stead of “O-A” (Long Stay)

So they do NOT say that the money must be already in Thailand.

I now realise exactly what happened and why I put my money in a Thai bank. I first went to Immigration in Bangkok in 2000 and got a leaflet written in Thai on one side and English on the other. It spelled out what you had to do to get a Resident's visa (two ways) or approval for a one year stay (two more ways). The latter ways were (1) the 3 million baht investment route (buy a condo) and (2) the retirement route. I was going down the investment route because at that time the age requirement was 55 years. The investment of 3 million baht had to be in a bank in Thailand and the document lists which banks were acceptable: Krung Thai Bank, Govt. Savings Bank, Bank for Agriculture and Agriculture Cooperatives, Rattanasin Bank, Bangkok Metropolitan Bank, Siam City Bank and Government Housing Bank. I chose Krung Thai (because it was first on the list and had a simple name )

But, when I went to the RTE in London in 2002 to pursue the investment visa, they told me that the age requirement had been reduced to 50 for retirement applicants. So I changed my approach and went that route. But because I had already set up the bank account in Thailand, I just assumed that they still wanted the money in Thailand! And, of course, they didn't tell me any different!

I am sure, now, that you are right and applicants for "O-A" (Long Stay) visas can keep their money in their own country and transfer 800,000 baht equivalent after a year in order to get the one-year extension. Thanks Jim!

[JimGant]

RDN,

Glad it all worked out for you regardless of how accomplished.

Interesting seeing the RTE in London's take on O-A requirements. Looks almost the same as that of the Los Angeles Consulsate -- except nothing about 'notarizations' of medical and criminal records.

Were you required to have your O-A paperwork officially blessed by anyone before submittal? If so, who?

I think LA is a little confused. Notarization means signature witness, and I don't think my doctor and police chief would accompany me to the notary's office. But they may mean some kind of official seal is required, so your experience would be helpful.

Thanks.

[ProThaiExpat]

RDN: There has been many posts suggesting that you can take out of Thailand the same money you brought in. So, in your scenario, if you came into

Thailand on a tourist visa, deposited the 800K in a Thai bank, were turned down for long stay, you could still take out the 800K because your bank book would be proof of the amount brought in.

Comments are invited and addition information on "how to take money out" is solicited.

Is there some proceedure to go through to take money out of Thailand?

Is the government involved in taking money out of Thailand?

How do you do it?

[RDN]

RDN,

Glad it all worked out for you regardless of how accomplished..

Me too! But I think the point you made about the money transfer to Thailand not being required until the end of the first year's stay is very important. I also think it's a bit illogical, because it implies that for the first year a new retiree will be living with no money in Thailand. Or maybe the authorities realise it takes a long time to get financial matters sorted - but if that's so, it's a little bit unusual for them to be so understanding .

Interesting seeing the RTE in London's take on O-A requirements. Looks almost the same as that of the Los Angeles Consulsate -- except nothing about 'notarizations' of medical and criminal records.

Were you required to have your O-A paperwork officially blessed by anyone before submittal? If so, who?

I think LA is a little confused. Notarization means signature witness, and I don't think my doctor and police chief would accompany me to the notary's office. But they may mean some kind of official seal is required, so your experience would be helpful. Thanks.

Jim, I have used a Notary Public in Thailand to certify that a copy of my passport was a "true copy", so I know what it is they do. But I did not use one in England for my visa application almost certainly because all documents had to be the originals: the passport, medical certificate (written on my doctor's headed paper and signed), criminal record (original document with heavy blue lines top and bottom so could not be easily copied), bank statement and guarantee letter (with bank stamp and signed on header paper).

So, if LA Consulate wants notarized copies, maybe it is because they want to keep them. But London Embassy gave me all my originals back (with my nice new visa) and with the comment "Take these to the airport and make sure they give you a one year stamp".

My understanding of a Notary Public is that they certify that a copy of a document is true - I don't believe that they have to witness your doctor's signature, just that they've seen the original document (with a handwritten signature) and that the copy is a true copy.

PS Sorry for the late reply - bad weather: landslides, trees down, power off, no telephone. Welcome to sunny Phuket !

Edited June 9, 2004 by RDN

[RDN]

RDN: There has been many posts suggesting that you can take out of Thailand the same money you brought in.  So, in your scenario, if you came into Thailand on a tourist visa, deposited the 800K in a Thai bank, were turned down for long stay, you could still take out the 800K because your bank book would be proof of the amount brought in.

Agreed! But if it is near to impossible to transfer money OUT of Thailand, then the least risk option (financially) in getting the O-A (long stay) visa (irrespective of whether you get it at home through an embassy/consulate or in Thailand by converting a tourist visa) is to leave your money in your native country and only transfer it once you've got the visa. Maybe this is why they give you one year to transfer the 800,000 (for the first one-year extension).

Just think of the outcry if all those people who were refused an O-A visa had 800,000 baht trapped in a Thai bank!

I'm afraid I can't help on your other point "how to take money out" as I have no experience of it.

[ProThaiExpat]

RDN: In the U.S., which as a former colony of the U.K. and from whom they inherited the common law, a notary public only verifies the signature. Verification of documents as true copies can be accomplished by officials, such as court clerks or embassy personnel, if they are certifying their own agencies documents. Thus on a divorce decree, a "certified copy" from the court of original jurisdicttion is required in some countries prior to re-marriage, if the divorce occured in another country.

No clue how it is in the U.K. or even Thailand now, but I think JimGant is correct regarding a notaries function. I have had many documents notarized in the U.S. and the notary only wants to see ID, usually drivers license, and wants to see you sign the document and then you sign the book she uses to register the signature for their records.

They rarely even look at the document upon which the signature they are notarizing appears.

Imagine, if you will, a residential mortgage document, a huge number of pages, where the signature must be notarized.

At the U.S. Consulate in CMX, I had to have land sale documents notorized. I submitted my documents and while they were behind the wall, so to speak, they were mis-piled, such that the wrong person was called to the window and before the vice-counsel, the wrong person signed my documents.

The error was caught when someone came to their senses and when I was called to the window, a red-faced vice-counsel was madly "whiting out" the erroneos signature from my documents.

No discount on the $50 fee for notary services, although technically the vice-counsel is not acting as a notary, since they have no such commission, (it being a state function) but as an officer of an overseas Embassy or Counsulate in the due course of thier duties certifying that one with proof of identity signed the document in their presence. The signature is not compared with anything. The notary only certifies under penalty of perjury that the person properly identifying themselves signed this document with his signature.

There may be a refusal to notarize if the name signed is markedly different than the proof of identity provided.

[lopburi3]

HOW DO THE NOTARIAL FUNCTIONS OF U.S. CONSULAR OFFICIALS DIFFER FROM THOSE OF A U.S. NOTARY PUBLIC? Like a notary public in the U.S., the consular official must require the personal appearance of the person requesting the notarial service; establish the identity of the person requesting the service; establish that the person understands the nature, language and consequences of the document to be notarized; and establish that the person is not acting under duress. (22 C.F.R. 92.31). In addition, the consular official must be satisfied that the act does not come within the purview of the regulatory bases for refusal to provide the notarial service set forth at 22 C.F.R. 92.9. This requires that the consular officer be generally familiar with the laws of the foreign country, U.S. law, and treaty obligations, or consult the Department of State when a matter is in doubt. Finally, in addition to the usual functions of notaries related to oaths, affidavits and acknowledgments, U.S. consular officials authenticate documents, a governmental act, which is not performed by notaries in the United States.

[RDN]

RDN:  In the U.S., which as a former colony of the U.K. and from whom they inherited the common law, a notary public only verifies the signature.  Verification of documents as true copies can be accomplished by officials, such as court clerks or embassy personnel,  if they are certifying their own agencies documents.  Thus on a divorce decree, a "certified copy" from the court of original jurisdicttion is required in some countries prior to re-marriage, if the divorce occured in another country.

Looks like a 'notary public" has more than one function or purpose. I just got this from the internet: Notary Public Job Description - Any individual appointed and commissioned to perform notarial acts. The purpose of a notarial act is to prevent fraud and forgery. A notary acts as an official and unbiased witness to the identity of a person who comes before the notary for a specific purpose.

I needed a copy of my passport to be sent to England for a "proof of identity" requirement which was needed because of "Prevention Of Money Laundering" rules imposed on my investment company. The copy had to be certified as being a "true copy of the original" by a "Notary Public, lawyer or advocate". The guy who did this for me signed himself "Notarial Services Attorney".

Looks like the LA Consulate wants the Notary Public to witness the signature being written on the documents, whereas my NP just had to certify that the photocopy of my passport was a true copy

[Roger13]

To take Money out of Thailand, just have your Funds in an

Account that is provided with a VISA Electron Card.

You can make withdrawals from any VISA ATM World Wide.

Roger

[Roger13]

Just ask for a standard retirement letter

A little confused here. What is a standard retirement letter? I know I'll need my Embassy to verify my retirement annuity income to satisfy the financial requirement.

But what else is required from my Embassy to satisfy Thai Immigration to grant me an extension?

The Embassy Letter is normally obtained to Certify

your Pension.

But the British Embassy letter does contain other information and

MAYBE ? will be asked for - even if one is applying on the basis

of Capital rather than Income?

The Letter I have had from the British Embassy these

past several years states that:

This is to Certify that Mr ... , Holder of British Passport No....

is recognised as a British Citizen.

Mr ... has indicated that he resides at ...and that there is

no information in our Consular Records to the detriment of the Applicant.

Mr ... has provided evidence showing that he receives an annual Pension of £

The Embassy would be grateful for any assistance you can provide to Mr ...

in his application for an extension to stay in the Kingdom.

Yours Faithfully

Second Secretary.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

RDN: There has been many posts suggesting that you can take out of Thailand the same money you brought in. So, in your scenario, if you came into

Thailand on a tourist visa, deposited the 800K in a Thai bank, were turned down for long stay, you could still take out the 800K because your bank book would be proof of the amount brought in.

Comments are invited and addition information on "how to take money out" is solicited.

Is there some proceedure to go through to take money out of Thailand?

Is the government involved in taking money out of Thailand?

How do you do it?

If the funds were transfered to your Thai account from a foreign bank, and the records show that. you can easily repatriate the money.

[dutch]

Roger 13,

Some months before, this letter was already on the forum.

I used it as an example at the Dutch embassy in Jakarta and just last Monday they provided me with this letter.I will use it to get my 1 year multiple O-A at the Royal Thai Embassy in Jakarta at the end of this year.

At first they refused,telling never done before.However after showing the British example, I could collect the same afternoon.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Roger 13,

Some months before, this letter was already on the forum.

I used it as an example at the Dutch embassy in Jakarta and just last Monday they provided me with this letter.I will use it to get my 1 year multiple O-A at the Royal Thai Embassy in Jakarta at the end of this year.

At first they refused,telling never done before.However after showing the British example, I could collect the same afternoon.

They just needed to be shown the way to do it Dutch. Have you met Ambassador Atchara yet ?

[dutch]

Dr PP

Yes we ( my wife and I )had dinner with a small group of Thai business people and embassy ministers.Being the only farang I felt honoured.

She is very sympathic and communicative.

Unfortunatyely no golfplayer!

[JimGant]

Lop,

Finally, in addition to the usual functions of notaries related to oaths, affidavits and acknowledgments, U.S. consular officials authenticate documents, a governmental act, which is not performed by notaries in the United States.

Where'd you find that? Explains a lot, including why RDN's eyebrows raised, and why LA Consulate believes 'notarization' equates to 'certification of validity.'

Obviously, lawyers are at work here, trying to trick screw us. Just can't figure their angle with this one(?).

[JimGant]

But the British Embassy letter does contain other information and

MAYBE ? will be asked for - even if one is applying on the basis

of Capital rather than Income?

Thanks, Roger. Don't know what the US embassy/consulate will put in any certification I request, other than I make x amount of dollars in a year. Sounds like your Foreign Service can 'anticipate' and thus can ease matters up-front with Thai immigration. What a nice touch -- would be "grateful for any assistance to extend stay in the Kingdom"

Heck, if Dutch can convert his foreign service types --- Hello, Colin Powell, I know your pretty busy these days, but------------.

[dutch]

Hi JimG,

Don't understand exactly what you mean.

However don't read more than what you read.

Royal Thai Embassy in Jakarta is only a very small embassy.

The Thai community over here is limited and no big deal.

My wife and I are both member of the Thai Golf Club in Jakarta and my wife is member of the Asian women association and the Thai women association.

That,s how you get to know people