Aussie father and son electrocuted to death in Rayong

[oldwelshman]

RIP to them, tragic. Lots of presumptuous posts here. How do you know it was not falty wiring that caused issue. He was found with a wrench in his hand? Hardly the tool for electrical work.

In my wifes house, builders complained the roof gave them a shock, I tested an dit was live !! No main isolator/fuse, no earthing, no rcd, and all cables in roof twisted together and not insulated at all! Oh and sypply straight from a meter across road only 2m up a post and terminals open to the elements !!!!

I donned a pair of gloves and disconnected supply to house, wired new board with rcd's and min isolator also and installed earth rod and fitted junction boxes everywhere.

Then removed all joined cables which were on garden floor and fitted outdoor lights and put cable overhead in piping!!! Some holiday that was but I would not have slept back in UK had I left that place like a death trap with kids running round.

 

 

[impulse]

Condolences to the guys' family.  This is a sad cautionary tale, and I'd like the input from any sparkies about these socket testers for use in LOS:

 

http://www.lazada.co.th/peakmeter-pm6860er-automatic-electric-socket-tester-neutral-liveearth-wire-testing-rcd-test-uk-plug-230v-intl-8078318.html

 

http://www.lazada.co.th/duoyi-dy207-220-230v-detection-testingleakage-protection-test-safety-electrical-socket-tester-rcd-plug-eu-europe-version-14573684.html

 

http://www.lazada.co.th/peakmeter-pm6860e-automatic-electric-220v-250v-united-kingdomplug-socket-testercolorblack-intl-28274528.html

 

Please keep in mind I'm not endorsing any of them, but $10 seems cheap for DIY testing the sockets in a home and possibly prevent a tragedy.

 

[NanLaew]

6 hours ago, oldwelshman said:

He was found with a wrench in his hand? Hardly the tool for electrical work.

But it can be a plumbing tool... and he was working on the swimming pool pump. Maybe tightening a leaking coupling or flange with the pump power still on? Just shows that even the most mundane of tasks in Thailand needs a Risk Assessment carried out, especially if there's electricity around.

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, impulse said:

Condolences to the guys' family.  This is a sad cautionary tale, and I'd like the input from any sparkies about these socket testers for use in LOS:

 

http://www.lazada.co.th/peakmeter-pm6860er-automatic-electric-socket-tester-neutral-liveearth-wire-testing-rcd-test-uk-plug-230v-intl-8078318.html

 

http://www.lazada.co.th/duoyi-dy207-220-230v-detection-testingleakage-protection-test-safety-electrical-socket-tester-rcd-plug-eu-europe-version-14573684.html

 

http://www.lazada.co.th/peakmeter-pm6860e-automatic-electric-220v-250v-united-kingdomplug-socket-testercolorblack-intl-28274528.html

 

Please keep in mind I'm not endorsing any of them, but $10 seems cheap for DIY testing the sockets in a home and possibly prevent a tragedy.

 

I bought something similar in the UK a while ago to check out the electricals in the newly built home. Unfortunately, it appears that the Thai convention for the 'L' and 'N' pins follows the US standard and is reversed from the UK and EU standard.

 

But the grounds are all correct... if you have any.

[DUNROAMIN]

Everything in LOS is half ass,  electrical, plumbing, mechanics, you name it, all back yard boys with a certificate out of the Kellogs Cornflake packet. Prefer doing my own work, that way I know its done correctly to my own country's standard.

I strongly urge everybody to have a safety cut switch added to their circuit  breakers or a complete new board wire by somebody who knows what they are doing.

RIP to my OZ countrymen.

[VocalNeal]

5 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Thai convention for the 'L' and 'N' pins follows the US standard and is reversed from the UK and EU standard.

I was at a house one time in Sattahip where the owner told me got a belt of a socket while wiring up his stereo. It turned out the L and N has been reversed somewhere on the pole aways down the street. So although he had turned off the breaker. What he had actually isolated was the neutral. So to all intents and purposes the circuit in his house was dead because nothing worked, but it was still live if one touched the wrong wire.

 

It pays to use insulated tools until one is absolutely sure.

[rickudon]

With a separate pumphouse near the gate you wonder if it was wired in BEFORE any circuit breakers ..... Also no explanation as to how the metal gate was electrified. As said, electrical installations in Thailand are scary. My wife will not even let me change a light bulb! (ATM must never be put at risk).

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, rickudon said:

With a separate pumphouse near the gate you wonder if it was wired in BEFORE any circuit breakers ..... Also no explanation as to how the metal gate was electrified. As said, electrical installations in Thailand are scary. My wife will not even let me change a light bulb! (ATM must never be put at risk).

Possible. I mentioned earlier that I had an air conditioner hot-wired to the main service coming to the property. Throw the house main breaker and it kept running!

 

The gate wasn't electrified. In lieu of a separately wired ground on the pool pump installation, the gate was the path to ground, ie. the current passed from the live appliance, through both victims to ground via the gate. Most fatal shocks are ones that cross the body, disrupting the heartbeat whereas someone may easily survive a 'belt' when their hand touches something live but their elbow or upper arm is (touching something) grounded. In that instance, the current path avoids the heart. Unfortunately, when higher currents are encountered, muscles will contract which is why it is very common for someone holding something that becomes live or another part of their body enables a better current path to ground, they will grip the live item. This is why, in lieu of confirming that the current source has been totally deactivated, they recommend any intervention such as moving the live item or even moving the victim should be done with a dry piece of wood.

 

If the current cannot be cut-off or it takes too long due to the switch being far away, try to disengage the electrocuted person using any non-conducting element (board, strip of wood, rope, wooden chair, leather belt, stick or dry branch, etc.) to grab hold of the wire or the injured person from a distance, or grab his clothes, provided the first-aider is well insulated.

 

Electrocutions in a wet environment are the most dangerous to tackle and typically result in higher fatalities.

[oldwelshman]

9 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

I was at a house one time in Sattahip where the owner told me got a belt of a socket while wiring up his stereo. It turned out the L and N has been reversed somewhere on the pole aways down the street. So although he had turned off the breaker. What he had actually isolated was the neutral. So to all intents and purposes the circuit in his house was dead because nothing worked, but it was still live if one touched the wrong wire.

 

It pays to use insulated tools until one is absolutely sure.

A correct double pole isolator isolates live and neutral so would provide safe working.

[impulse]

22 hours ago, NanLaew said:

I bought something similar in the UK a while ago to check out the electricals in the newly built home. Unfortunately, it appears that the Thai convention for the 'L' and 'N' pins follows the US standard and is reversed from the UK and EU standard.

 

But the grounds are all correct... if you have any.

 

Is that a genuine PEA standard, or what you found?  I'm reading here some instances where someone disconnected the power- (I'm thinking at the breaker?), and only the ground (or neutral) was disconnected and the circuit remained live through what should have been the neutral.  It would surprise me to find the actual standard to be reverse, though I wouldn't be surprised at all to find that a lot of installations are reversed -either before the incoming panel or in the panel itself- since there are so many 2 prong outlets.  (I miss the USA 3 prong outlets, both from a standardization of plugs and knowing which side is the neutral regardless of the orientation of the wall outlet and how many extension cords I daisy chain...)

 

And I do admit that I am often surprised...

 

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, impulse said:

Is that a genuine PEA standard, or what you found?

See below, a locally bought wall socket. With reference to the ground pin, the US and Thai convention is reversed from the UK and EU one. Using the polarity checkers from lazada with integrated UK and EU plugs will give a L/N fault light on an otherwise correctly wired Thai outlet.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎8‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 2:19 PM, MadMuhammad said:

So sad. There's just no second chances when it comes to playing with electricity. RIP. Thoughts are with the family.

Not quite correct. Install an RCD between outside main feed and the breaker box and it will save your life. One saved mine 3 times.

 

I wonder if he had any experience in electrical stuff? The village "electrician" that wired up a switch for the family house had no clue, and I had to put a breaker into the circuit. Neither did the "electrician" that used a I foot steel rod for the earth when I had him install a hot water heater. I had to redo his work as well.

 

Anyway, RIP to the 2 guys, and condolence to the family. Tragic.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, NanLaew said:

See below, a locally bought wall socket. With reference to the ground pin, the US and Thai convention is reversed from the UK and EU one. Using the polarity checkers from lazada with integrated UK and EU plugs will give a L/N fault light on an otherwise correctly wired Thai outlet.

 

 

Not sure what you mean by "polarity checker" but I used one of those screwdrivers with a bulb in it to check for live wires. Costs a few baht at any electrical store.

[thaibeachlovers]

6 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Is that a genuine PEA standard, or what you found?  I'm reading here some instances where someone disconnected the power- (I'm thinking at the breaker?), and only the ground (or neutral) was disconnected and the circuit remained live through what should have been the neutral.  It would surprise me to find the actual standard to be reverse, though I wouldn't be surprised at all to find that a lot of installations are reversed -either before the incoming panel or in the panel itself- since there are so many 2 prong outlets.  (I miss the USA 3 prong outlets, both from a standardization of plugs and knowing which side is the neutral regardless of the orientation of the wall outlet and how many extension cords I daisy chain...)

 

And I do admit that I am often surprised...

 

Nothing surprised me when I was rewiring my ex's family houses. One time I found that when the light switch was off, the wire to the bulb was still live. Twisted wire joins with tape and reversing the live wire with what should have been neutral was common.

In the BIL's house, they wired up a plug direct from the outside main feed and put a knife breaker into the circuit. Unfortunately, they omitted to put the cover over it, which made it lethal to anyone rummaging around in the garage, as I was doing. Only by the grace of the deity.......................

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, oldwelshman said:

A correct double pole isolator isolates live and neutral so would provide safe working.

Correct, but I always turned the wire that I was working on off at the breaker so I could still  use power tools and lights etc.

However, I did check the wire was not live before doing anything.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎8‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 3:13 PM, VocalNeal said:

I was at a house one time in Sattahip where the owner told me got a belt of a socket while wiring up his stereo. It turned out the L and N has been reversed somewhere on the pole aways down the street. So although he had turned off the breaker. What he had actually isolated was the neutral. So to all intents and purposes the circuit in his house was dead because nothing worked, but it was still live if one touched the wrong wire.

 

It pays to use insulated tools until one is absolutely sure.

One should always check if a wire is live, even if the mains switch is off, wherever one is. Easily done with a voltmeter or one of those circuit testers that cost a few baht at the hardware store.

[MadMuhammad]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Not quite correct. Install an RCD between outside main feed and the breaker box and it will save your life. One saved mine 3 times.

 

I wonder if he had any experience in electrical stuff? The village "electrician" that wired up a switch for the family house had no clue, and I had to put a breaker into the circuit. Neither did the "electrician" that used a I foot steel rod for the earth when I had him install a hot water heater. I had to redo his work as well.

 

Anyway, RIP to the 2 guys, and condolence to the family. Tragic.

While I understand and agree, to some extent RCD's are not entirely foolproof, depends on the fault conditions. 

 

You should consider yourself lucky you had any firm of earthing installed lol

[ChrisKC]

Of course this is a serious and tragic accident. Am I wrong for thinking in this case that if the mains elctricity supply was turned off, cannot suffer from shock or electrocution?

whenever I do anything  remotely connected with electricity i automatically turn off the mains.

 

[oldwelshman]

On ‎20‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 9:30 AM, ChrisKC said:

Of course this is a serious and tragic accident. Am I wrong for thinking in this case that if the mains elctricity supply was turned off, cannot suffer from shock or electrocution?

whenever I do anything  remotely connected with electricity i automatically turn off the mains.

 

Yes you are wrong. If the switch is other side of what is being worked on it will still be live. In thiland no way of knowing where the supply comes from, always test befor touching any bare conductor. Marrigold gloves and insulated tools help just in case ;-)

[kaorop]

On 8/18/2017 at 10:51 AM, NanLaew said:

See below, a locally bought wall socket. With reference to the ground pin, the US and Thai convention is reversed from the UK and EU one. Using the polarity checkers from lazada with integrated UK and EU plugs will give a L/N fault light on an otherwise correctly wired Thai outlet.

 

 

Not sure if someone else posted this, but with the flat prongs N is wider than L, as this socket shows.

But with many round prong leads there is no difference.

electricals are one of the banes of my life here in lo(n)s, (land of no safety)

so many unsafe sub par BS ratings products

[NanLaew]

33 minutes ago, kaorop said:

Not sure if someone else posted this, but with the flat prongs N is wider than L, as this socket shows.

But with many round prong leads there is no difference.

electricals are one of the banes of my life here in lo(n)s, (land of no safety)

so many unsafe sub par BS ratings products

Yes, the original Thai power outlets and plugs copied American ones and had the wider Neutral pin/socket and most name brand hardware still carries this convention. However, in addition to the non-polarized round pin "Schuko" plugs/sockets from Europe, there's a whole lot of cheap, locally made flat-pin plugs and sockets that have the same sized flat pins so unless they are 3-pin, the polarity problem resurfaces.

[kaorop]

12 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Yes, the original Thai power outlets and plugs copied American ones and had the wider Neutral pin/socket and most name brand hardware still carries this convention. However, in addition to the non-polarized round pin "Schuko" plugs/sockets from Europe, there's a whole lot of cheap, locally made flat-pin plugs and sockets that have the same sized flat pins so unless they are 3-pin, the polarity problem resurfaces.

Quite correct on the flat pin cheap stuff. 

With so many pitfalls of these products add in the danger of Elec, low skill and poor installations and flooding people must be dying or seriously injured from electrocution at very high rate. But like many things here the stats, would be inaccurate at best and deliberately fudged at worst.

[SwimmingPoolsThailand]

Always obtain  the services of a genuine pool  professional for  installations of electrical  equipment for  swimming pools.

SwimmingPoolsThailand carries out  installtions strictly  to  European and Australian electrical  codes of practice.

 

Many  houses in  Thailand, even modern ones, are not  equipped with RCCB/GFC. Check  your  consumer unit  to  be sure.

 

See: http://swimmingpoolsthailand.com/en/144-din-rail-components

or contact  a certified electrical  store.

[HooHaa]

On 8/15/2017 at 8:32 PM, jorj44 said:

I don't want to be seen as insensitive, or a pedant, but I do want to be of assistance to the sub-editor.

 

The word "electrocution" was coined at the time of the adoption of the electric chair and is a contraction of the words electric execution.

 

The sub-editors' scourge is the tautology, and look what he has gone and done.

and in common contemporary usage is used to include accidental death - which according to Webster's is the primary definition.