is it possible to live in thailand as long as you like this....

[superglue]

8 minutes ago, jamieoutlook said:

Can anyone please tell me what happens if or when the powers that be decide that i have been here too long.

I know i am pushing the set limits regarding living here as a full time tourist, but all i would like to know is  what is the proceedure .

Next time i go to Vientiane and get a TV and at the border the IO decides that i am not wanted here any more, does he just, there and then  refuse my entry or does he give this red stamp i hear about and lets me stay for the duration of my visa and then i must go back to my old home country?

Thanks for any relevant info.

 

You stated that you are pushing the limits.

Do your research & pay the consequences (or reap the rewards).

[jamieoutlook]

4 minutes ago, superglue said:

 

You stated that you are pushing the limits.

Do your research & pay the consequences (or reap the rewards).

Thank you for your contribution, but all i really want to know is as i asked;ie

Next time i go to Vientiane and get a TV and at the border the IO decides that i am not wanted here any more, does he just, there and then  refuse my entry or does he give this red stamp i hear about and lets me stay for the duration of my visa and then i must go back to my old home country?

 

[superglue]

20 minutes ago, jamieoutlook said:

Can anyone please tell me what happens if or when the powers that be decide that i have been here too long.

I know i am pushing the set limits regarding living here as a full time tourist, but all i would like to know is  what is the proceedure .

Next time i go to Vientiane and get a TV and at the border the IO decides that i am not wanted here any more, does he just, there and then  refuse my entry or does he give this red stamp i hear about and lets me stay for the duration of my visa and then i must go back to my old home country?

Thanks for any relevant info.

 

You stated that you are pushing the limits.

Do your research & pay the consequences (or reap the rewards).

[superglue]

I choose not not to push the limits. I have had a retirement visa for 14 years.

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, jamieoutlook said:

Thank you for your contribution, but all i really want to know is as i asked;ie

Next time i go to Vientiane and get a TV and at the border the IO decides that i am not wanted here any more, does he just, there and then  refuse my entry or does he give this red stamp i hear about and lets me stay for the duration of my visa and then i must go back to my old home country?

Never heard of red stamp like you mentioned. You seem to be referring to the stamp an embassy or consulate put on your visa stating you may not be able to get another visa there.

You cannot be denied entry for staying here too long by immigration since there is no rule or regulation that states how long you can stay here on tourist visas.

The most common reasons for denial of entry are lack of financial proof and/or suspicion of working here. A denial of entry does not prevent you from entering again.

[acenase]

6 minutes ago, jamieoutlook said:

Thank you for your contribution, but all i really want to know is as i asked;ie

Next time i go to Vientiane and get a TV and at the border the IO decides that i am not wanted here any more, does he just, there and then  refuse my entry or does he give this red stamp i hear about and lets me stay for the duration of my visa and then i must go back to my old home country?

 

 

If you have an unused TV in your passport then you are already accepted to go back, because if they deny you, they would deny your application at Thai consular. If Immigration officer sees the valid Visa in your passport then you will gain entry.

[jeab1980]

1 minute ago, superglue said:

I choose not not to push the limits. I have had a retirement visa for 14 years.

Thats your choice doesnt make you any better or worse than others.

[superglue]

4 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

Thats your choice doesnt make you any better or worse than others.

 

I have my own comfort zone as you have yours.

Edited September 8, 2017 by superglue

[darrendsd]

17 minutes ago, acenase said:

 

If you have an unused TV in your passport then you are already accepted to go back, because if they deny you, they would deny your application at Thai consular. If Immigration officer sees the valid Visa in your passport then you will gain entry.

Completely incorrect, having a valid visa does not guarantee entry

[superglue]

6 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

Completely incorrect, having a valid visa does not guarantee entry

 

What does?

[juice777]

Thank you for your contribution, but all i really want to know is as i asked;ie
Next time i go to Vientiane and get a TV and at the border the IO decides that i am not wanted here any more, does he just, there and then  refuse my entry or does he give this red stamp i hear about and lets me stay for the duration of my visa and then i must go back to my old home country?
 

At some point you might get the Visa and the red stamp I think. How many have you had from Vientiane?



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[jamieoutlook]

59 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Never heard of red stamp like you mentioned. You seem to be referring to the stamp an embassy or consulate put on your visa stating you may not be able to get another visa there.

You cannot be denied entry for staying here too long by immigration since there is no rule or regulation that states how long you can stay here on tourist visas.

The most common reasons for denial of entry are lack of financial proof and/or suspicion of working here. A denial of entry does not prevent you from entering again.

Thank you  for clarifying this ubonjoe.

The reason i asked was because there is so much mis-information around when one does do research as suggested by superglue.

Even now there is a  disagreement going on on this page.

I got it wrong then, about the red stamp,as you say it is given by the embassy and not at immigration.

 So, on this info, if the embassy, next time , or at some future time happens to give me the stamp, what options does one have to get back into Thailand?

If you have not used your 2 land border crossings already, i guess you can get back this way.

However if ,perchance you have used those 2 already what other options do you have?

Thanks.

 

+++ Will the embassy give you a "last" visa and add the red stamp so there is no "next time" or do they just give the stamp and refuse you the visa there and then?

 

Edited September 8, 2017 by jamieoutlook

[jamieoutlook]

22 minutes ago, juice777 said:

At some point you might get the Visa and the red stamp I think. How many have you had from Vientiane?



Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
 

This one ,last week, after a couple of visa exemptions and land border crossings, but had quite a few from years ago, the last one being exactly 2 years ago.

In between had a retirement extention, but lost the capital and a lot more to a lovely lady 

Hence, back on a TV.

 

Edit..another query.

When i hear about having 20,000 baht on you etc, who is asking, the embassy or the immigration officer?

 

 

Edited September 8, 2017 by jamieoutlook

[juice777]

If you go to Savannakhet instead you probably won't get the stamp. But you will Need a proof of funds and a Ticket out of Thailand. I have had about 4 in a row from there.

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[darrendsd]

22 minutes ago, superglue said:

 

What does?

The Immigration Officer letting you in is usually a start

 

I/O's are the ones who decide if you enter or not, having a valid visa does not grant automatic entry, that's why there are I/O's, their job is to check

[juice777]

This one ,last week, after a couple of visa exemptions and land border crossings, but had quite a few from years ago, the last one being exactly 2 years ago.
In between had a retirement extention, but lost the capital and a lot more to a lovely lady 
Hence, back on a TV.
 
Edit..another query.
When i hear about having 20,000 baht on you etc, who is asking, the embassy or the immigration officer?

The immigration officer at the borders.The embassy sometimes want proof of funds on paper.

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[jamieoutlook]

59 minutes ago, juice777 said:

The immigration officer at the borders.The embassy sometimes want proof of funds on paper.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
 

Thanks for all the feedback.

I really need to get this right as i have a major health issue and don't need any nasty surprises later.

In summary and correct me if i'm wrong

As ubon joe says there is no limit on the time one can stay here on a TV.

However, if one does not have the funds to show the immigration officer he can over ride the visa issued to you and refuse you entry.

 Realistically then, one can apply for multiple TV's , interspersed with VE's at land crossings twice PA successfully as long as you can show funds to the IO if he wants to see this.

I also have my bankbook showing a regular monthly payment from my social security office.

[darrendsd]

7 minutes ago, jamieoutlook said:

Thanks for all the feedback.

I really need to get this right as i have a major health issue and don't need any nasty surprises later.

In summary and correct me if i'm wrong

As ubon joe says there is no limit on the time one can stay here on a TV.

However, if one does not have the funds to show the immigration officer he can over ride the visa issued to you and refuse you entry.

 Realistically then, one can apply for multiple TV's , interspersed with VE's at land crossings twice PA successfully as long as you can show funds to the IO if he wants to see this.

I also have my bankbook showing a regular monthly payment from my social security office.

Yes the visa can be over rided

 

Always have the 20k and bank book with you when you enter, at most land crossings you will never be asked to show these but better safe than sorry

 

Tip, avoid Airports, this is where the vast majority of people being questioned/denied are happening

[juice777]

Thanks for all the feedback.
I really need to get this right as i have a major health issue and don't need any nasty surprises later.
In summary and correct me if i'm wrong
As ubon joe says there is no limit on the time one can stay here on a TV.
However, if one does not have the funds to show the immigration officer he can over ride the visa issued to you and refuse you entry.
 Realistically then, one can apply for multiple TV's , interspersed with VE's at land crossings twice PA successfully as long as you can show funds to the IO if he wants to see this.
I also have my bankbook showing a regular monthly payment from my social security office.

That's about it the rule is at Borders you need 20000THB cash. But you almost definitely won't need to show This at land crossing. I've only herd about it about it happening at airports. But with people who are quite young and have many Tourists Visas in there passport. But consider keeping 20000THB on you just to be on the safe side.

Also my advice to you is to go to Savannakhet get a cheap 1000THB ticket out of Thailand and print out your bank Statement. Very important is to make sure that guy at the window can see its your bank statement. So take I always take my cash card with me. Luckily I had it on me the first time the guy in front of me got knocked back because of this. If you go to Savannakhet you will almost definitely not get that stamp. I have been here for 3 years on Tourist Visas. Always keep checking on TV forum for any rules. It's saved me more then once.

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[JackThompson]

52 minutes ago, juice777 said:

That's about it the rule is at Borders you need 20000THB cash. But you almost definitely won't need to show This at land crossing. I've only herd about it about it happening at airports.

And Malaysian border crossings - Sadao definitely, and now reports of this at Pedang Besar.   I'd recommend always carrying it to avoid any potential problem - and also as the OP said he had proof of income from overseas, might as well be prepared with that as well.

20K + Visa and you are OK to enter for now, as long as you avoid Airports and the Poipet land-crossing.  The future is another matter, so stay tuned here for any updates/changes.  The Poipet/Aranya crossing "went rogue" and started making up imaginary laws - and others may too at some point.

[JackThompson]

4 hours ago, KiChakayan said:

Hmmmhhh.. so have fun. But these are exactly the kind of questions asked when you get interviewed for an immigrant (or permanent resident) visa in other countries. I experienced it first hand. I can also imagine myself answering: "oh I want to lead a cheap life and you should be happy to let me spend my little money in your country".

 

Thai immigration seem to embrace now a "right visa for the right purpose" paradigm. "right visa for the right purpose" paradigm; so permanent residence with a series of tourist visas, or exemptions must be seen a bit disturbing.

It's not "little money" compared to the locals - each of us support many local businesses.  Some more than others, but anyone who is not working illegally or otherwise harming locals and is spending foreign-earned income is "doing good" for Thailand.  

If immigration actually cared about the "real reason" for people staying here, they would not embrace the, "Pay an agent or school to hand me money under the table for a visa" paradigm.  "Abusing the system with loopholes" is exactly what that is - and what IOs prefer.  TR Visa users who are not working or overstaying are actually obeying the rules, in contrast to many "agent-users."  Payoff an agent, and never mind those pesky "proper qualifications."  You can even skip the queue.  It's not a stretch to guess that is why some IOs hate TR Visas - because there is no corruption in it.

 

Even for those qualified for non-TR options, whether a "non-agent / legal / honest" route exists, and/or at what level of trouble, depends on your office and which desk / head-officer of the desk, at the office you have to deal with.  Most people report few issues with proper extensions at most offices.

 

On 9/7/2017 at 2:13 PM, hawker9000 said:

... And then they come whining about it.  They're in detention; have no ticket; have no money; need help; had no idea; being treated unfairly; human rights violated, how do I appeal,,,

Yes - appeal is the law, but the one report I have seen where someone tried, "legal recourse" was apparently "not available."   But this is only an issue for those who try to enter via Airport Immigration desks or at Poipet/Aranya.  Elsewhere, where the actual laws are still followed - no "made up rules" are spouted as if true - and it is not a problem. 

 

Granted, the disease of corruption and hate might spread to all checkpoints and immi-offices over time - at which point we can all kiss our tourist AND non-tourist permits to stay goodbye - though I am sure some will be able to afford to become an honorary aryan "permitted-stay-farang" for an ever-increasing fee and or higher hurdles.

Edited September 8, 2017 by JackThompson

[jamieoutlook]

Thanks to all who gave me [and urbanmoe] the answers.

 That is,that it is possible, without breaking any rules to live long term here on TV's and VE's providing you comply with all we have discussed here.

The only question that i have not really got an answer to is this

For whatever reason, on a given day that an IO at a land border entry point decides that he will not let you enter Thailand with, for eg your single TV from an embassy ,what can you do?

As i asked earlier say you have used your 2 X 30 day entries already for the year, how can you get back to Thailand to your place of residence and make plans to go back to your home country?

Or will the IO let you in for the period of your new visa under the proviso that you leave when it expires?

Or, do they hold you in detention?  Scary prospect!

Thanks again.

[juice777]

Thanks to all who gave me [and urbanmoe] the answers.  That is,that it is possible, without breaking any rules to live long term here on TV's and VE's providing you comply with all we have discussed here. The only question that i have not really got an answer to is this For whatever reason, on a given day that an IO at a land border entry point decides that he will not let you enter Thailand with, for eg your single TV from an embassy ,what can you do? As i asked earlier say you have used your 2 X 30 day entries already for the year, how can you get back to Thailand to your place of residence and make plans to go back to your home country? Or will the IO let you in for the period of your new visa under the proviso that you leave when it expires? Or, do they hold you in detention?  Scary prospect! Thanks again.

Don't use your 2 land crossing unless you have to. Then if you get denied you have 120 days to leave Thailand or sort something else out.

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[darrendsd]

7 minutes ago, jamieoutlook said:

Thanks to all who gave me [and urbanmoe] the answers.

 That is,that it is possible, without breaking any rules to live long term here on TV's and VE's providing you comply with all we have discussed here.

The only question that i have not really got an answer to is this

For whatever reason, on a given day that an IO at a land border entry point decides that he will not let you enter Thailand with, for eg your single TV from an embassy ,what can you do?

As i asked earlier say you have used your 2 X 30 day entries already for the year, how can you get back to Thailand to your place of residence and make plans to go back to your home country?

Or will the IO let you in for the period of your new visa under the proviso that you leave when it expires?

Or, do they hold you in detention?  Scary prospect!

Thanks again.

If you have already used your 2 VE for the year  then it is obvious that you do not try for a 3rd, you will not be allowed to enter

 

If refused on a TV at a land border (unlikely) then try another land entry point, if not possible you would need to fly in

 

It's unlikely you will be refused entry at a land crossing with a TV

[BritTim]

4 hours ago, jamieoutlook said:

Can anyone please tell me what happens if or when the powers that be decide that i have been here too long.

I know i am pushing the set limits regarding living here as a full time tourist, but all i would like to know is  what is the proceedure .

Next time i go to Vientiane and get a TV and at the border the IO decides that i am not wanted here any more, does he just, there and then  refuse my entry or does he give this red stamp i hear about and lets me stay for the duration of my visa and then i must go back to my old home country?

Thanks for any relevant info.

The first point to realize is that, in Thailand, the law is flexible, and the "powers that be" is the individual official you are currently dealing with and his direct boss. There are some hard and fast rules, but mostly what happens is location dependent. It would be possible to write a book about how to navigate the Thai immigration system, but I will restrict my comments to general points about the Vientiane consulate, and entry back into Thailand. I also restrict myself to the position now, ignoring the past and speculation about the future.

 

Vientiane consulate : this is a friendly consulate that does a great job. They have several times reorganized to allow them to handle over 500 applications a day while keeping the process as painless as possible for the applicants. They are on your side, but they also know they are under the microscope from those above them, and cannot issue visas without some restrictions. They issue tourist visas without asking for onward tickets, hotel reservations, or financial proof. However, they do not issue tourist visas indefinitely. If you ask for more than about three from that consulate, they will give you the visa, but give you the red stamp to indicate you are not getting any more.

 

Reentry by land : as a general point, if you are denied entry at a land border, this is a better situation than denial at an airport. The reason is that they invariably just tell you to get lost, with no stamps in your passport or record in the immigration computer about your attempted entry. This means that you can try elsewhere (or even at the same place another day) without the previous denial affecting your chances. If entering visa exempt, you are restricted to two entries by land in a calendar year. If you comply with that restriction, they have no problem. Most land borders are friendly towards those entering with a visa. If coming from Vientiane with a tourist visa, you are very unlikely to have a problem entering via the Friendship Bridge.

 

Reentry by air : all airports have become risky for those living in Thailand on tourist entries. How risky, depends on nationality and whether it seems likely that you could be an illegal worker. Technically, the likely reasons you could be denied entry are lack of finance to fund your stay (have 20,000 baht equivalent in cash or travelers' checks to eliminate the official using that justification) or a well founded suspicion that you are working illegally. Under certain circumstances (6+ visa exempt entries since 2015 is a well know one) the immigration official is alerted that you should be scrutinized more closely to confirm you are a genuine tourist. Why people are actually denied entry is often murky. If an official really wants to deny you entry, they will find a way. However, the officials will generally follow the law unless you really upset them. If you are denied entry at an airport, this will be done officially, with entries in your passport and immigration's system. Usually, you will be returned to your last departure point before attempted entry to Thailand. You will not be blacklisted from Thailand, but future entries are likely to be more difficult.

 

I could add more on what can upset officials, and make them want to give you grief, but this is already a long post.

[hawker9000]

On ‎9‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 0:56 AM, acenase said:

 

What if someone got laid off from work and has all this money to travel but instead of traveling to different places around the world, decides to rent a condo for a year and stay in Thailand? You can still live in Thailand and still be a Tourist. The rules are that you have to leave every 3 months with no employment. 

 

I have been doing back to back Tourist visas and multiple Visa exempts before I even started applying for a Visa and the only thing they questioned me was "Are you working here?" if you aren't doing anything illegal then there's no problem.  It's not tricking the system, because I am not eligible for a Non Immigrant Visa because I do not work in Thailand. So I would still apply for a Tourist Visa and follow the rules. The system is there for a reason. And as long as people are leaving after 90 days, not working and applying for a new Tourist Visa to continue their stay, there shouldn't be any problems.  theres no rules saying that you can only be considered a tourist in Thailand for a certain amount of months.

You just keep believing that.   Your day will come (assuming your report is to be believed in the first place).

 

Actually, you can get a multi-entry Tourist Visa (in your home country), and use it to stay up to 270d (with a 30d extension at the end).   And if that was your first ever Thai visa, and at the end of it you flew to, say, Vientiane, and got yourself a single-entry Tourist Visa, I suspect you'd probably have no problems on that next entry.  And so with another 30d extension,  you'd have your one year.  Trying to continue with a succession of back-to-back tourist visas AFTER THAT is where you'd start rolling the dice.

 

But no, you cannot legally use a tourist visa to LIVE in Thailand because it's a visa for purposes of tourism.  Yes, I agree, the term "tourist" has no defined limiting number of days' stay associated with it, but that's just being pedantic and trying to game the fact that with so many valid options available it would be impossible to specify a limiting total number of days' stay.  However, any Immigration Officer has more than enough horsepower and discretion to decide to refuse you continued entry based on suspected residence when your record of back-to-back entries comes up on his screen.   It's just foolish to try and advise others to the contrary, but does provide a good example why readers should not accept at face value every bit of foolish advice and questionable and/or purely anecdotal "evidence" put forth by scofflaws to be found here.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, hawker9000 said:

But no, you cannot legally use a tourist visa to LIVE in Thailand because it's a visa for purposes of tourism.  Yes, I agree, the term "tourist" has no defined limiting number of days' stay associated with it, but that's just being pedantic and trying to game the fact that with so many valid options available it would be impossible to specify a limiting total number of days' stay. 

The authorities could (and may, someday) limit TR use to a set-number of days - 180/calendar year or similar.  They have chosen not to do so until now, thereby giving their stamp of approval to those staying here more than that using TR Visas, provided the rules (no work, no overstay, etc) are followed.

 

1 hour ago, hawker9000 said:

However, any Immigration Officer has more than enough horsepower and discretion to decide to refuse you continued entry based on suspected residence when your record of back-to-back entries comes up on his screen.  

"Suspected Residence" is not a legal criteria for denial of entry.  Under Thai law, an IO is not given blanket-authority to deny entry, as they are in many other countries.  Not having 20K Baht in cash or travelers checks is the most common reason for denial, but in a couple of cases, the IO claimed they somehow knew the person was working illegally ("suspicion" is not in the legal statute). 

 

Of course, we all know that when dealing with a guy in a uniform, what is legal and what actually happens may not overlap, when that uniformed-person (or their boss) decides they are wiser than those who write the actual laws.  In the cases reported of entry-denial - all at airports, recently - the IO would usually cite a made-up non-rule - such as "too many TR Visas" or "max 180 Days/yr" - then stamp a different "legal" reason in the denied person's passport to cover their tracks (how law-breakers generally behave).

 

If caught in this trap, there is little if anything a foreigner can do - you could cite the actual Thai laws/rules all day, and just face increasing ire.  Therefore, the only recourse for longer-staying persons using TR entries is to avoid border-points where we have reports of the laws not being followed by IOs - namely at airports and the Poipet/Aranya land-crossing. 

 

If a longer-stayer chooses to "run the gauntlet" at these points of entry, they should be sure to have 20K Baht in cash or travelers checks, and be prepared for strange illegal requests, such as being forced to buy a ticket out when entering with a valid TR Visa, as happened here:
https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/999077-being-stopped-at-the-border-and-visa-extensions/

 

[acenase]

16 hours ago, darrendsd said:

Completely incorrect, having a valid visa does not guarantee entry

 

Yes it does guarantee entry. It is the Thai consulars job to decide if they will issue the Visa or not. If they issue the Visa it means you shouldn't have a problem.

 

If you are denied by IO, then that is called Corruption. 

 

The most they will ask you is to show proof of cash and flight ticket, which anyone should be able to provide. If you can't provide 20k in funds anyways, thats a big red flag and you shouldn't be traveling to Thailand with such limited amount of money anyways and deserve to be turned away.

 

Edited September 9, 2017 by acenase

[jamieoutlook]

21 minutes ago, acenase said:

 

Yes it does guarantee entry. It is the Thai consulars job to decide if they will issue the Visa or not. If they issue the Visa it means you shouldn't have a problem.

 

If you are denied by IO, then that is called Corruption. 

 

The most they will ask you is to show proof of cash and flight ticket, which anyone should be able to provide. If you can't provide 20k in funds anyways, thats a big red flag and you shouldn't be traveling to Thailand with such limited amount of money anyways and deserve to be turned away.

 

From Thai embassy website>

 

– The visa validity is the length of time you are permitted to travel to a port-of-entry in Thailand to request permission of the immigration officer to permit you to enter Thailand. The visa does not guarantee entry to Thailand.

sit.

– Each time you arrive at the port-of-entry, an immigration officer decides whether to allow you to enter and how long you can stay. Only the immigration officer has the authority to permit you to enter Thailand. “

[juice777]

You just keep believing that.   Your day will come (assuming your report is to be believed in the first place).
 
Actually, you can get a multi-entry Tourist Visa (in your home country), and use it to stay up to 270d (with a 30d extension at the end).   And if that was your first ever Thai visa, and at the end of it you flew to, say, Vientiane, and got yourself a single-entry Tourist Visa, I suspect you'd probably have no problems on that next entry.  And so with another 30d extension,  you'd have your one year.  Trying to continue with a succession of back-to-back tourist visas AFTER THAT is where you'd start rolling the dice.
 
But no, you cannot legally use a tourist visa to LIVE in Thailand because it's a visa for purposes of tourism.  Yes, I agree, the term "tourist" has no defined limiting number of days' stay associated with it, but that's just being pedantic and trying to game the fact that with so many valid options available it would be impossible to specify a limiting total number of days' stay.  However, any Immigration Officer has more than enough horsepower and discretion to decide to refuse you continued entry based on suspected residence when your record of back-to-back entries comes up on his screen.   It's just foolish to try and advise others to the contrary, but does provide a good example why readers should not accept at face value every bit of foolish advice and questionable and/or purely anecdotal "evidence" put forth by scofflaws to be found here.

Me personally I wouldn't say it foolish if you have no choice. But just don't have to much you can't walk away from if it goes wrong. Don't buy a condo don't get married and don't have kids. Actually I worry if I had any of those things in country like Thailand. No way I could worry about a family on yearly visas knowing that I could loose my residence here for some unknown reason.

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