Creating A Position In Thailand

[Coach Rob]

I am exploring the creation of two positions for my department, which will be based in Asia and report to mangers at our home office in the US. One of the options we have discussed is in Thailand. We are a US based company and have an office in Bangkok, and will create offices for our people there.

I am also looking at Beijing, Shanghai, Singapore and to lesser extent New Zealand. I will be listing the pros and cons of each location, and will make a proposal and cost assessment for my boss. From there we will hand it over to the HR people in the country chosen. We need to be in a position to drive the details and creation of the positions. We want to be well versed in the issues and planning needed before we hand thing over to their HR people so we control many aspects of the final position creation.

I have a couple of questions the members of this forum may be able to help me with.

What is the likliehood of finding candidates with strong written and excellent spoken English skills in Bangkok?

Is the infrastructure (ie internet access speed) in Bangkok likely to be upgraded anytime soon. The fastest speed I have found is 256K. We will require roughly 1024 min as these positions will be directly networked to our home office.

Our required skillset will include proficiency in Adobe Illustrator, experience in HTML editing, and ability to work independantly. The job sites I have seen seem to have plenty of postings with similar skillsets. Is there a shortage of candidates with these skills in Thailand?

The salary will be more than competitive, as we will want to keep the people we hire, not train them for someone else.

Thank you for any input you might have.

[MattFS218]

I am also looking at Beijing, Shanghai, Singapore and to lesser extent New Zealand. I will be listing the pros and cons of each location, and will make a proposal and cost assessment for my boss. From there we will hand it over to the HR people in the country chosen. We need to be in a position to drive the details and creation of the positions. We want to be well versed in the issues and planning needed before we hand thing over to their HR people so we control many aspects of the final position creation.

I have a couple of questions the members of this forum may be able to help me with.

What is the likliehood of finding candidates with strong written and excellent spoken English skills in Bangkok?

Is the infrastructure (ie internet access speed) in Bangkok likely to be upgraded anytime soon. The fastest speed I have found is 256K. We will require roughly 1024 min as these positions will be directly networked to our home office.

Our required skillset will include proficiency in Adobe Illustrator, experience in HTML editing, and ability to work independantly. The job sites I have seen seem to have plenty of postings with similar skillsets. Is there a shortage of candidates with these skills in Thailand?

The salary will be more than competitive, as we will want to keep the people we hire, not train them for someone else.

Thank you for any input you might have.

About english proficiency: In Thailand english proficiency varies greatly. If Thai hires will be talking to customers, I would say you are better off in New Zealand or Singapore. However if they will only be writing emails, then Thailand would be okay. University educated Thais can write and read english pretty well, it's the conversational english they lack. The other plus to Thailand is the high number of native speaking foreign expats, who are often willing to work for less money than in their home countries (but they tend to move around and switch jobs often).

Infrastructure in Bangkok is not a problem. Good internet is cheap and easy to come and dependable.

Technology wise Thailand education lacks greatly. I'm a business oriented IT consultant by profession and Thailand is really, really behind. If any tech skill is required, give India a look. You might be able to get by with basic html, and adobe illustrator, but don't expect cutting edge work.

Hope this helps.

Matt

[Indo-Siam]

Hi Coach -

Matt's report is accurate.

I run a company that - among other things - runs a business whose description you can find by searching the Internet for Bangkok Staff Services.

Basically, we provide oversight supervision, and serve as employer of record for Thai staff persons who work in dedicated support of the business missions of overseas clients. We operate on a "cost plus" basis - client pays employee salary and expenses, plus a management fee to my firm.

We presently provide such support to two US clients.

We also run a four-person operation specifically focused on high-speed data entry - for a Singapore firm that provides BPO support to the distribution chain for Hewlett Packard Thailand.

If interested in exploring use of such a service, please contcat me at [email protected], and I will provide you with more details.

Cheers!

Steve Sykes

Managing Director

Indo-Siam Group

Bangkok

[OldAsiaHand]

I disagree completely with the two posts above and respectfully suggest that they both have more to do with the posters' self-interests than anything even remotely resembling the truth.

I have been involved in international banking and corporate finance in Thailand for over twenty years. English language proficiency and educational standards in general among local employees here is the worst in Asia and the technical support infrastructure is a joke. "Good internet is cheap and easy to come and dependable," the above poster says, which is just utter nonsense. The total available international bandwidth in Thailand is controlled by corrupt government agencies and the speed is entirely dependant on how much of this restricted bandwidth may be made available at any particular time. As a rule, internet access here is both slow and completely unreliable. Technical support is nonexistent, both due to a lack of training and because problem solving is not part of the Thai culture.

Based on your quite general description of what you are looking for, I think you would be nuts to consider anywhere other than Singapore. Thailand is a third world country. No amount of cheerleading by local residents who have, for whatever reason, made their bed here is going to change that. And the Thais themselves haven't the slightest interest in changing it other than to prattle on and on about their own self-importance.

If you want food and women, come to Thailand. If you actually want to do international business in the twenty-first century, however, go to Singapore (although the food in Singapore isn't bad either).

Edited January 28, 2006 by OldAsiaHand

[Butterfly]

OldAsiaHand is absolutely right. Those 2 posters are "biased" to say the least.

The place is a dump, it's a third world country, you can't expect much. Quality of life is still nice but don't expect miracles when it comes to technology

Internet Connection is worthless, but usable

Thai don't speak English, but they can write ok

As for skills, it's not really the problem (you could find plenty of talents) but you will have to manage their little sensitive egos when it comes to work ethics and commitment. Turnorver here is HUGE, no matter how much you pay them or patronize them

Singapore much better choice but more expensive and the western food in Singapore is fantastic, much better than here. But China is definitely the place to go these days.

Edited January 28, 2006 by Butterfly

[clokwise]

I totally agree with the previous couple posts from OldAsiaHand and Butterfly. Unless you have specific business reasons to be in Thailand, don't come here. If your company is trying to expand your Asian presence, SG, CN, HK and TW are your best bet.

I work in the Asian online advertising sector, and live here only for the sake of my (Thai) family. It makes for a convenient commute to the other countries I visit or work in, so I can't complain.

At one time I considered expanding our business here but I'd rank TH at the bottom of the list in terms of finding professional staff with an overseas education & a true understanding of how business is done outside of Thailand - essential in my business. ADSL net connectivity has been possibly the worst internet experience I've had in 10 years, and I'm apparently connected to the best ISP in Thailand. VOIP, my key communications tool to my head office, is unpredictable at best.

You should seriously consider China. Hong Kong is an option but it's too expensive, and frankly, it's getting left in the dust as Shanghai and Beijing storm ahead. SG can also be pricey. Another good option would be Taiwan, which has an over abundance of western educated, english speaking professionals, good government, mindblowingly good net infrastructure, and in general costs are not much higher than Thailand.

[~G~]

What is the likliehood of finding candidates with strong written and excellent spoken English skills in Bangkok?

You can evanutally find such candidates, but the sad truth is that employers need to pay a very high premium for employees with excellent english. For example, if an average salary for a secretary might be 7,000 - 8,000, one with excellent english skills will cost you around 12,000 - 15,000 or more. A foreign-educated administrative assistant, with good experience might you cost over 20,000 baht a month.

I haven't seen anyone pay extra for english skills in India or singapore...

Is the infrastructure (ie internet access speed) in Bangkok likely to be upgraded anytime soon. The fastest speed I have found is 256K. We will require roughly 1024 min as these positions will be directly networked to our home office.

I'd expect some difficulties.

Our required skillset will include proficiency in Adobe Illustrator , experience in HTML editing,

No problems here

and ability to work independantly.

That's another catch, probably the biggest one. You have to have a strong supervisor. Otherwise, projects will never finish and QA will not be there. They will do the work, but with which results?

The salary will be more than competitive, as we will want to keep the people we hire, not train them for someone else.

I had a sales person leave with a day's notice, once offered a higher salary.

Edited January 28, 2006 by ~G~

[Buki]

Go to the Philippines. Everyone can speak, read and write English. Labor is cheap. Food is cheap. Accommodation is cheap. IT is in the Philippines is doing good, internet is fast. There are many American call centers over there for these reasons.

Just be careful of government red tape.

[MattFS218]

I don't sell any sort of service in Thailand, nor am I trying to seek anyone’s business abroad, so my comments aren't biased. I mentioned I was a business oriented IT specialist to qualify my statements on Internet access, which btw I believe are accurate for Bangkok (but not necessarily the rural areas, or anywhere outside of BKK).

(But enough of me being defensive )

Beijing and Shanghai aren't options because English is even less common there compared to Thailand. Further, the cost of both those cities is substantially higher than that of Bangkok. Yes, you do pay a premium for English speaking ability in Thailand, but it can still be cheaper than hiring someone based in Singapore or Shanghai.

Thailand is far from a third world country. Anyone who has walked through the new Siam Paragon can tell you this. Try Africa or India, and you'll really see what a third world country is like!

In Steve's defense though, he does sell a service, but he's an honest guy. I was oh so close to starting a Pvt Limited company with him a while ago, when he was honest and disclosed to me the costs of closing a business in Thailand. For that he saved me a lot of money and put my interest in front of his profits. So hats off to Mr. Sykes.

All the best,

Matt

[Indo-Siam]

The last couple of critical replies in this thread are LUDICROUSLY absurd - in relation to the original inquiry.

The original poster is looking for ONE employee in Thailand. It is easy to find ONE Thai employee who is fluent in English. The references to 12,000 and 15,000 baht per month salaries are also irrelevant. If I am an international businessman seeking to establish a significant position or two in Asia, I will not blink at a monthly salary of US $750 - or US $1,000 per month.

More than half my Thai employees make more than the figures mentioned - several more than double those figures - and several are quite fluent English speakers - it is not hard to find Thai employees who have lived and studied in English-speaking countries.

Clokwise, Butterfly and Old Asia Hand are signed up to the Bangkok concept that all Thais must be paid as little as possible, and are incapable of interacting at a western professional level - well, this is rubbish. You just have to know how to hire and motivate good people.

All the nay-sayers write under board names - I write under my own name - I put my business identity right up on the line - I don't hide behind anonimity. I would not expect to have difficulty establishing a support "cell" that met the OP's expectations. I won't do it for peanuts - but I did not see anything suggesting that the OP wanted top-quality staff for US $100 per month.

The same goes for internet connectivity. Several vendors here offer 4,096/512 ADSL - and if you want a T1 or T3 line, you can get it. My cell supporting HP Thailand sends up to 600 high-resolution scan document images per day to Singapore - no sweat (although there are periodic service outages - which happen in all major cities). We are running just 1,024/512 kbps.

I give "G" a pass - because he owes me money!

Now - if you want to establish a call center staffed by 500 fluent English speakers - and pay them US $200 per month - well, Thailand is not your best bet. Both India and the Philippines are better choices.

But - that has NOTHING to do with the OP's stated inquiry. He possibly wants ONE employee in Thailand.

Steve Sykes

Managing Director

Indo-Siam Group

Bangkok

[samran]

The last couple of critical replies in this thread are LUDICROUSLY absurd - in relation to the original inquiry.

The original poster is looking for ONE employee in Thailand. It is easy to find ONE Thai employee who is fluent in English. The references to 12,000 and 15,000 baht per month salaries are also irrelevant. If I am an international businessman seeking to establish a significant position or two in Asia, I will not blink at a monthly salary of US $750 - or US $1,000 per month.

More than half my Thai employees make more than the figures mentioned - several more than double those figures - and several are quite fluent English speakers - it is not hard to find Thai employees who have lived and studied in English-speaking countries.

Clokwise, Butterfly and Old Asia Hand are signed up to the Bangkok concept that all Thais must be paid as little as possible, and are incapable of interacting at a western professional level - well, this is rubbish. You just have to know how to hire and motivate good people.

All the nay-sayers write under board names - I write under my own name - I put my business identity right up on the line - I don't hide behind anonimity. I would not expect to have difficulty establishing a support "cell" that met the OP's expectations. I won't do it for peanuts - but I did not see anything suggesting that the OP wanted top-quality staff for US $100 per month.

The same goes for internet connectivity. Several vendors here offer 4,096/512 ADSL - and if you want a T1 or T3 line, you can get it. My cell supporting HP Thailand sends up to 600 high-resolution scan document images per day to Singapore - no sweat (although there are periodic service outages - which happen in all major cities). We are running just 1,024/512 kbps.

I give "G" a pass - because he owes me money!

Now - if you want to establish a call center staffed by 500 fluent English speakers - and pay them US $200 per month - well, Thailand is not your best bet. Both India and the Philippines are better choices.

But - that has NOTHING to do with the OP's stated inquiry. He possibly wants ONE employee in Thailand.

Steve Sykes

Managing Director

Indo-Siam Group

Bangkok

Just to add my two cents, where I am now, there are probably three dozen Thai's for whose spoken English is fluent, plus a couple speak various level of Chinese and Spanish. To build up that kind of staff would have been quite challenging even 10 years ago, but today I suspect it is much easier, as substantial numbers of Thai's in their late 20's are returning every year from a good 5 or 6 year spell at some of the better universities in the US, UK and Australia.

[mbkudu]

I have been involved in international banking and corporate finance in Thailand for over twenty years.

Based on your quite general description of what you are looking for, I think you would be nuts to consider anywhere other than Singapore. Thailand is a third world country.

If you want food and women, come to Thailand. If you actually want to do international business in the twenty-first century, however, go to Singapore (although the food in Singapore isn't bad either).

OAH, you haven't followed your own advice; or maybe you just like to suffer.

[Butterfly]

Clokwise, Butterfly and Old Asia Hand are signed up to the Bangkok concept that all Thais must be paid as little as possible, and are incapable of interacting at a western professional level - well, this is rubbish. You just have to know how to hire and motivate good people.

All the nay-sayers write under board names - I write under my own name - I put my business identity right up on the line - I don't hide behind anonimity. I would not expect to have difficulty establishing a support "cell" that met the OP's expectations. I won't do it for peanuts - but I did not see anything suggesting that the OP wanted top-quality staff for US $100 per month.

The same goes for internet connectivity. Several vendors here offer 4,096/512 ADSL - and if you want a T1 or T3 line, you can get it. My cell supporting HP Thailand sends up to 600 high-resolution scan document images per day to Singapore - no sweat (although there are periodic service outages - which happen in all major cities). We are running just 1,024/512 kbps.

I give "G" a pass - because he owes me money!

Now - if you want to establish a call center staffed by 500 fluent English speakers - and pay them US $200 per month - well, Thailand is not your best bet. Both India and the Philippines are better choices.

But - that has NOTHING to do with the OP's stated inquiry. He possibly wants ONE employee in Thailand.

Steve Sykes

Managing Director

Indo-Siam Group

Bangkok

You are seriously drinking too much Koo-Aid steve if you believe any of your own BS. I can respect your motivation but what you are saying above is totally rubish.

Apart from a few exceptions, I can't believe you are implying that hiring those "talents" here is easy. It's not. It's one of the main issues here that every corporations have to face. You know that perfectly well. Hiring that "one" person that the OP is looking for is going to be challenging and he should know that. Hiring an entire team would be as many times as challenging. If you are implying this is an easy process, I have doubt on the quality of the prople you are hiring.

As for paying, you are implying that "we", Bangkok type, have lower standards. I used to blow 150,000 baht a month on staff only, paying premiums over "normal salaries" and after many turnover and bad situations, I had to "restrict" some of my business "practice" because I couldn't find anyone good who could serve those "practice". That's the truth. You can't develop a business here because your "resources" and "options" are limited. I don't say it's impossible, I am just saying it's very challenging and time consuming with no much return. If 70% of your time is wasted on "managing" your staff instead of your business, then you are in trouble.

As for Internet, you can't be serious. Paying for a T1 for sending a few pics even at 600 dpi (only a few megs anyway), it's not only ridiculous but only stress the extend of the problem of Internet in Thailand. Paying $500 a month for a T1 for using Skype and emails shouldn't be a standard. Do you have any idea what is a T1, steve, and what is it made for ?

This being said, I am sure you are running a successful business and you are a great resource for people establishing businesses here, but trying to "downplay" the difficulties here is not what your should do. Granted, the OP mentionned only "one" person but will probably be looking also for expansion, so you need to be a little more exhaustive here than describing the situation for "one" person.

[MattFS218]

You are seriously drinking too much Koo-Aid steve if you believe any of your own BS. I can respect your motivation but what you are saying above is totally rubish.

Comments like these are ooh to common on this board, it's unfortune people decide to bash under aliases rather than give constructive feedback.

As for Internet, you can't be serious. Paying for a T1 for sending a few pics even at 600 dpi (only a few megs anyway), it's not only ridiculous but only stress the extend of the problem of Internet in Thailand. Paying $500 a month for a T1 for using Skype and emails shouldn't be a standard. Do you have any idea what is a T1, steve, and what is it made for ?

Maybe a few years ago, when your business was running, a T1 was expensive in Bangkok. Today, they aren't. True offers business grade ADSL of VoIP quality for well under USD$100/month. The 299 baht/mo adsl packages aren't great, but what do you expect for USD$10/mo.

Matt

[Butterfly]

Maybe a few years ago, when your business was running, a T1 was expensive in Bangkok. Today, they aren't. True offers business grade ADSL of VoIP quality for well under USD$100/month. The 299 baht/mo adsl packages aren't great, but what do you expect for USD$10/mo.

Matt

For an IT consutant, Matt, you have revealed not to know much about these network technology

T1 is still expensive in Bangkok. I think you are confusing SDSL and ADSL with a T1. You have don't have the same service and performance with ADSL compared with a T1. If I am correct, a T1 in Bangkok is actually more than $500 when you include all the ISP charges and equipment.

Yes, 500 baht a month for ADSL is cheap, it's cahotic, but for basic emails and surfing it's OK, so I am not complaining about that. However for more instensive business applications, even with a business Turbo SDSL, Internet in Thailand isn't reliable for a "real" business. Between the shortages of service and the large drop in performance, you couldn't run a real remote Internet business with such unreliable service.

[OldAsiaHand]

I have been involved in international banking and corporate finance in Thailand for over twenty years.

Based on your quite general description of what you are looking for, I think you would be nuts to consider anywhere other than Singapore. Thailand is a third world country.

If you want food and women, come to Thailand. If you actually want to do international business in the twenty-first century, however, go to Singapore (although the food in Singapore isn't bad either).

OAH, you haven't followed your own advice; or maybe you just like to suffer.

Nope, but I DO like food and women.......

[~G~]

I give "G" a pass - because he owes me money!

Steve, I think my post demonstrates pretty well that your services are actually a great solution for one seeking to create a position in Thailand - reliable supervision and extensive experience with Thai employees.

And no, not beacuse I owe you money!

[FlyingDutchman]

For an IT consutant, Matt, you have revealed not to know much about these network technology

T1 is still expensive in Bangkok. I think you are confusing SDSL and ADSL with a T1. You have don't have the same service and performance with ADSL compared with a T1. If I am correct, a T1 in Bangkok is actually more than $500 when you include all the ISP charges and equipment.

Yes, 500 baht a month for ADSL is cheap, it's cahotic, but for basic emails and surfing it's OK, so I am not complaining about that. However for more instensive business applications, even with a business Turbo SDSL, Internet in Thailand isn't reliable for a "real" business. Between the shortages of service and the large drop in performance, you couldn't run a real remote Internet business with such unreliable service.

Setting up a web-based business, you could place the web-server in another country. Or must I say should ? Uploading/maintaining from Thailand may take a while due to the bad connection, but your server is placed in a location where your cliënts have no troubles. Just to send your administration to your accountant or sending advert-mails or having a simple site, you need not have a huge line to the internet. Your employees would never get off the net (for private use).

[Butterfly]

Let me guess G, after paying a hefty "recruitment" fee for your "quality" employee, and a "guarantee" that he will not runaway with the cash register, he left the job only after 2 weeks with a day notice

Edited January 30, 2006 by Butterfly

[MattFS218]

For an IT consutant, Matt, you have revealed not to know much about these network technology

T1 is still expensive in Bangkok. I think you are confusing SDSL and ADSL with a T1. You have don't have the same service and performance with ADSL compared with a T1. If I am correct, a T1 in Bangkok is actually more than $500 when you include all the ISP charges and equipment.

Yes, 500 baht a month for ADSL is cheap, it's cahotic, but for basic emails and surfing it's OK, so I am not complaining about that. However for more instensive business applications, even with a business Turbo SDSL, Internet in Thailand isn't reliable for a "real" business. Between the shortages of service and the large drop in performance, you couldn't run a real remote Internet business with such unreliable service.

T1's in developed countries are the same cost; it's more of a local loop (public utilities) surcharge than an internet connectivity cost. It's why most people choose xDSL services rather than a T1 service. Further, if you have offices in one of the fiber connected offices in Bangkok, you can achieve even faster service at a lower cost.

Notice how I don't slam you when I respond! With love,

Matt

[steveromagnino]

The issue of staff turnover here is a simple one - incompetent companies with incompetent management and HR policies have turnover problems. Good companies don't.

Same same everywhere in the world.

Regarding availability of staff who speak good english; there are a stack of foreign educated Thais; Cambridge, Oxford, Harvard, Kellogg, Australia, New Zealand - you can take your pick and many even (sadly) have the local accent of the area they studied in. The supply side is fine. however, the demand for these graduates is very high, and thus a start up and particularly a company with foreign management who do not speak Thai and cannot assure the applicant that they will be making good connections, looked after and have a decent career path (remember that connections are all important here) may struggle to attract those staff.

Regarding experience or knowledge; I cannot comment on IT but when you have graphic design agencies doing work regionally and local designers planning out stores of the world's top luxury brands, award winning advertising and a few tip top companies, well clearly there are high fliers here. But at the same time, Thailand has an average GDP per capita ranking in the middle of the world on par with countries like Turkey and Brazil, that means there must be a lot of people not working or generating GDP at the same level as say Singapore, Taiwan or HK (all of which rank far higher). In other words, there are quality staff here, but there are far more non-quality staff to choose from, and for an outsider here, finding the right people is going to tough.

in terms of recruitment, jobsdb has proven useful to my main client, headhunters somewhat so, and mostly the applicants have come via personal connections.

Regarding income, if you pay peanuts you get monkeys for the most part. A decent english speaking secretary probably graduating from overseas with good english and a couple of years work experience might be somewhere between 18 - 45k a month.

Regarding getting people to speak up in the office, that takes perhaps 6 months of quality management and then almost all staff (even down to maids) are willing to participate and be part of conversations, debates and heated exchanges in my experience. Creating the right company culture can be done here easily the same as anywhere else, but first up you need to understand how Thai people think, and preferably avoid doing what many western expat managers do here in repeatedly offending their staff through cultural misunderstandings and inconsistent beahaviour. Face is all important here, but based on the threads about face here, it seems many expats would rather fight against the face system rather than using and accepting it as an element of culture here.

In my experience, the systematic complainers would do well to remember that the elements of inefficiency and the fact that Thailand is in some ways 3rd world are the only reasons why many of them have any use here at all; if Thailand was developed to the same level as HK or Singapore, then some of the expat idiots I have to deal with would be unable to work here at all, because the rubbish work they do would been seen through immediately.

I am happy to discuss further if you want to PM :-) Good luck with whatever country and decisions you make.

[~G~]

Let me guess G, after paying a hefty "recruitment" fee for your "quality" employee, and a "guarantee" that he will not runaway with the cash register, he left the job only after 2 weeks with a day notice

Actually I was probably not careful enough with that one, a bad judgment on my part. She did not stick to either of her past jobs, and kept switching between them. The thing was, she was an absolutely exceptional sales person (for the 2 months she worked for me ), energetic, assertive and resourceful. Unfortunetaly, niether loyalty nor honesty were there

[Prudent_rabbit]

Just to add, Im recruiting for a secretary for a client, had 3 people in for interview so far, 1 was a Thai who lived in Aus, spoke English like a natural (and Thai) the other 2 applicants had both been to Aus for English courses and their English was at a very good level, salaries required were between 13,000 and 20,000 (and the high end was for the secretary experinence.

[Butterfly]

For an IT consutant, Matt, you have revealed not to know much about these network technology

T1 is still expensive in Bangkok. I think you are confusing SDSL and ADSL with a T1. You have don't have the same service and performance with ADSL compared with a T1. If I am correct, a T1 in Bangkok is actually more than $500 when you include all the ISP charges and equipment.

Yes, 500 baht a month for ADSL is cheap, it's cahotic, but for basic emails and surfing it's OK, so I am not complaining about that. However for more instensive business applications, even with a business Turbo SDSL, Internet in Thailand isn't reliable for a "real" business. Between the shortages of service and the large drop in performance, you couldn't run a real remote Internet business with such unreliable service.

T1's in developed countries are the same cost; it's more of a local loop (public utilities) surcharge than an internet connectivity cost. It's why most people choose xDSL services rather than a T1 service. Further, if you have offices in one of the fiber connected offices in Bangkok, you can achieve even faster service at a lower cost.

Notice how I don't slam you when I respond! With love,

Matt

I wasn't slaming you Matt, just bringing to your attention a fairly big inaccurancy from someone who claim to be an IT specialist.

No, even T1 in "developed" countries are NOT the same cost as xDSL, TurboDSL etc..., they are getting close but they are still more expensive. And it's not a "mindless" surcharge either as you seem to imply. Equipments used and the quality of the network they chose to route your traffic is also of different quality, at least for the "serious" ISP, not the small network companies who will claim anything to get a client and make them believe they have a T1 instead of a xDSL/SDSL

I have both abroad and I can assure you that you can notice the difference when working with "Internet" intensive applications. I don't regard Skype, the desktop client, as an intensive Internet application.

Like previously said, surfing, emails and sending a few pics (even 800MB in size) is ok in Thailand and you don't need a T1. But I don't call these actions "real" business applications, casual business, yes.

Just to add, Im recruiting for a secretary for a client, had 3 people in for interview so far, 1 was a Thai who lived in Aus, spoke English like a natural (and Thai) the other 2 applicants had both been to Aus for English courses and their English was at a very good level, salaries required were between 13,000 and 20,000 (and the high end was for the secretary experinence.

Not bad. Quite cheap actually even for the top one. The real challenge would be how long she will stay. Even more true for small businesses.

Edited January 31, 2006 by Butterfly

[GuestHouse]

I think if I was wanting to move a business to Asia, and assuming I've considered all the issues such as location of client base etc, I'd then be looking to remove as much uncertainty as I could.

For that reason I'd recommend Singapore - and I have worked on International Projects in Thailand. China, The Philppines, Vietnam, Japan and Singapore.

Singapore, just works - the whole system is set up to make your (the investor's) life easier and it starts on Day 1 when you apply for your visas - There is none of this 'We are doing YOU a favour'. It's 'Hey you want to do business here - Welcome, and welcome to your ideas too'.

I think if you are going to still choose BKK then perhaps recruiting Indo Siam as a consultant to get you started might be a good idea to get you past the first pitfalls.

And one other point - Is you business plan the kind of thing that could be copied by your staff - ie Client Lists copied, contract details copied?

If so and you are going to start-up in Thailand, expect someone in your organization to do just that. They might even join your organization with the sole purpose of copying it.

[Butterfly]

And one other point - Is you business plan the kind of thing that could be copied by your staff - ie Client Lists copied, contract details copied?

If so and you are going to start-up in Thailand, expect someone in your organization to do just that. They might even join your organization with the sole purpose of copying it.

Hehe, good call, I forgot also about that one, and this actually happened to me once. The guy went to contact some of my clients by email and ask them to turn their business to him instead. He went as far as renting an office using my company name to setup the new business with "my" clients. Sweet. Found about it quickly (I monitor staff emails), and I didn't even get rid of him immediately (didn't want to make him lose face and go crazy on me). I told the clients of the situation and they could see what kind of work ethics they were dealing with. Found a nice excuse to get rid of him 3 months later. He didn't lose face and I still talk to him sometimes like nothing happened

Edited January 31, 2006 by Butterfly

[baht&sold]

Some valid points made on all sides here which proves the issue at hand is truly subjective (based on one's experience). Meanwhile, the OP has bolted it appears but it would be interesting to hear what he decided on and what his experience was

[MattFS218]

I wasn't slaming you Matt, just bringing to your attention a fairly big inaccurancy from someone who claim to be an IT specialist.

No, even T1 in "developed" countries are NOT the same cost as xDSL, TurboDSL etc..., they are getting close but they are still more expensive. And it's not a "mindless" surcharge either as you seem to imply. Equipments used and the quality of the network they chose to route your traffic is also of different quality, at least for the "serious" ISP, not the small network companies who will claim anything to get a client and make them believe they have a T1 instead of a xDSL/SDSL

I have both abroad and I can assure you that you can notice the difference when working with "Internet" intensive applications. I don't regard Skype, the desktop client, as an intensive Internet application.

Like previously said, surfing, emails and sending a few pics (even 800MB in size) is ok in Thailand and you don't need a T1. But I don't call these actions "real" business applications, casual business, yes.

The OP was asking about doing basic desktop publishing, so I fail to see how my information was inaccurate.

T1's are based on old PSTN switching systems, they are used for more than just data, they are also used for standard voice. It's a big cable that must be brought into your office (at least 24 strands). xDSL services are popular because they use signaling based on your current (standard) wiring and only require additioal equipment at the central office. There is NO inherrent latency or speed issues with xDSL compared with T1, infact several high grade carriers use xDSL technology for their backbone links in certain areas of the states (I'm not sure about abroad).

The issue comes with ISPs splitting/sharing your big xDSL pipe with other users. This can be avoided by paying for premium service or paying a premium ISP while still using the (cheap) xDSL service as a last mile. If you wish to discuess this further, please direct your question to the Technology section, as there are experts there who can verify my points.

Matt

[Butterfly]

You were saying

some network guru forums

http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/archive/in...p/t-173990.html

I'd go with the T1 service due to the fact of longevity.

The latency is going to be much lower, especially for a VPN solution, and if you ever plan to do data and voice over the same line, xDSL won't cut it, no matter what they tell you or your bandwidth allocation.

Eat your hat and learn

I am sure the answer would be similar in our technical forums. Obviously you forgot to read the memo about the difference between T1 and xDSL.

Google if you are not convinced:

http://www.google.co.th/search?q=T1+vs+xDS...:en-US:official

[Coach Rob]

The OP has not bolted.

I was unable to post for the last couple of days. I also like to sit back and watch things play themselves out a bit when widely varying information comes up on a post like this. I will PM the posters I felt presented the most unbiased and useful info.

First off, thank you for the help. Some good ideas, and as useful for me, some very important areas to research. I have been doing quite a bit of research.

(Sorry to be so cryptic, but until this has been finalized I cannot go into more detail)

Now a couple of clarifications/questions.

My company is already established in Thailand. We have a sister department in our Thailand office but would like to be prepared before they are included in our plans. The people who fill the positions may report directly to managers in the US, or may report to our Thailand managers, a decision that has not been made thus far.

The initial job posting and resume gathering will be performed by our Thailand human resources group. Staff from the US will be doing the interviews to assure us the applicants we choose meet our needs.

We are not interested in a fly-by-night save as much as we can. We will be paying an above average wage and will take what steps we can to make sure the chosen applicants remain with us for a long period of time.

Along with salary, what are other issues that we should take into account to keep our employees loyal and happy?

From what I have garnered from the posts and research, saving face may be an issue with the existing staff. Am I correct that we may cause the sister department managers to lose face if we have our new hire report directly to us? If so, how serious do Thai's take losing face?

I do not wish to go and destroy our relationship with the Thai department. At some point we may train them on our software and Content Management system.

Singapore and Beijing are also begining to look promising to me. Any help there would be appreciated.