Prisons

[fw1]

Could anyone tell me how I go about visiting prisoners in Bangkok. I was thinking of going to Bang Kwang to pass on some basic food packages to a fellow Brit, and perhaps to pass on a message.

A friend of mine told me that I need to get in touch with the British Embassy first, who will then give me a list of names, from which I can choose a prisoner. If this is true, I was planning on doing it on Macha bucha Day. Couls anyone tell me whether the British Embassy will be open then?

Does anyone have any experiences to share?

Thanks

[The_Eye_Of_Sauron]

Don't think you need to go to the Embassy in advance - just head for the jail.

Don't forget to take the gifts, they'll be fed up if you chat and then reveal there's no Presents.

[SEAtramp]

Visiting a prisoner

Also a site similar online, regarding visiting female prisoners in Bkk.

[toastwars]

take the river bus 10bt to nontaburi, head to the prison they are pretty helpful, they will show you where to go and ask you who you want to see. simple. anyway who is your mate as I pass all the time and often drop in some stuff for people.

[fw1]

Do you think they allow visitors on public holidays? I plan on going on Macca Bucha day, next Wednesday.

[maikee]

here is a link to a listings of prisons in Thailand. There's phone numbers and e-mail contacts. Maybe have a Thai aquaintance call the number, or e-mail the contact listed.

http://www.phaseloop.com/foreignprisoners/contactall.html

[chanchao]

> and perhaps to pass on a message.

How about: "Smuggling drugs in Thailand is a bad idea."

or: "Don't kill people."

or: "Have sex with people your own age."

Thanks!

[booma]

spit on a policeman!

[booma]

Sorry!

I meant get spat on by a policeman!

O, whatever

[dr_Pat_Pong]

spit on a policeman!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought that the policeman gets to shoot you for that.

[Abandon]

http://www.phaseloop.com/foreignprisoners/prisoners.html

http://www.bangkwang.net/

No need to contact the embassy first. Just go and contact the foreign affairs section next to the prison gate. The guards there are so helpful as to put the Thai tourist industry to shame. They will show you how and where to fill out the forms. Basically they take you to the opposite side of the road where you present your passport for photocopying, and fill out a slip with the information of the prisoner you wish to visit. The site above will tell you which building he is in and you will need to know that. Most prisoners are in the buildings that allow visits on Mondays and Wednesdays, but check first that you are going on the right day. Then go across the road and enter, place your phone and valuables with the guards in a deposit box. Then you can enter the visitors area. Deposit any food etc you took with the desk at the far end of the courtyard, and they will tell you which window to wait at. Fresh food is best and you can buy it at the place where you fill out your slip. If you buy it in the prison shop inside the premises of the prison you will pay inflated prices.

You can also place money in the prisoners account at the desk as you exit the visitors area - on the left just as you exit the prison proper. Don't be apprehensive, the visiting area is very pretty and clean, and everything appears very nice on your side of the glass. They have new intercoms for conversations which is an improvement on the previous shouting system. Try and write first, including a stamped addressed postcard, to make sure that the person you visit is in the building you expect, and that he does not have any other visitors. Especially in December when contact visits are allowed with family, or when he is expecting his lawyer, you should make sure not to clash with these visits. That is, try not to make a suprise visit if you can, let them know in advance (don't worry if you can't)

[fw1]

Thanks guys this is most helpful. The only time off work I have is next Wednesday, so let's hope that they accept visitors on Macca Bucha day.

[maikee]

> and perhaps to pass on a message.

How about:  "Smuggling drugs in Thailand is a bad idea."

or: "Don't kill people."

or: "Have sex with people your own age."

Thanks!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey Mr. Farung Luv Thai super moderator....

As a moderator... super at that..., I would think you have a responsibility to respond to topics/posts like this in a neutral manner. The original poster was asking for information as to whether or not he could visit his friend or aquaintance on a holiday. He also wanted to pass on a message...I'm guessing he wasn't tacitly asking you for a message to pass on. Try being helpful.... refraining from your kind of comment is being helpful by the way.

[toastwars]

> and perhaps to pass on a message.

How about:  "Smuggling drugs in Thailand is a bad idea."

or: "Don't kill people."

or: "Have sex with people your own age."

Thanks!

how about " they have done the crime and are now doing the time, you might like to give them a break now that they are banged up for years thousands of miles from home" just a thought. You never made a mistake in your life??

[Abandon]

Good post Toastwars. I have found that almost all the expats in Bangkwang are really just stupid boys who got tempted in a moment of madness by professional conmen. Often they are stitched up from the start as they are always caught by informants - who are the real drug dealers using these boys as decoys, or as fodder to keep the drug enforcement police happy. They are not professional theives and certainly not profeesional drug dealers - but were taken for a ride by experienced dealers offering them a lot of "easy" money. In any ohter country this would be taken into consideration and they would be given sentances of 4-10 years with parole before then. In fact, after 8 years theya re eligible to be transferred home to serve the remainder of their sentances, but are in every case released shortly after being returned as the courts in the developed world consider what is a just sentance in their own country. The exception is with those who are or amintain innocence, with Brits as the 'everything by the book' attitude of uk courts makes them serve at least half of the original sentance (which is always 40 - 99 years), and in some cases Americans who know that conditions in US prisons are far worse than in Thailand.

And they get it easier than the Thai prisoners who are forced into slave labour without safety gear, and without the money or education to apply for Royal Pardons. Many hill tribe folk, especially women, have no legal status in Thailand, and so no rights. They live far from their families who also might not have citizenship (despite being born and bred in thailand) and so cannot travel to Bangkok to visit and give essential money. They have to pay for all basics themselves, and have high numbers of TB and dyssentry from the bad water, and aids from the 'medical' services. Many of these hill tribe women, who were also used as decoys or promised a lot of money for such poor people, are executed or spend life without parole in prison. Many of them also speak English, and most of them can speak some Thai. If there are any people here who would like to help, especially women, I can post some details of names of english speakers. The women really get an even worse deal than the men.

[Neeranam]

take the river bus 10bt to nontaburi, head to the prison they are pretty helpful, they will show you where to go and ask you who you want to see. simple. anyway who is your mate as I pass all the time and often drop in some stuff for people.

I did exactly that and was told I had to go to my embassy as I didn't have the name of anyone. I just wanted to give some cigarettes away.

[Ajarn]

and in some cases Americans who know that conditions in US prisons are far worse than in Thailand

Ridiculous statement. How did you possibly get that idea into your head?

[SEAtramp]

> and perhaps to pass on a message.

How about: "Smuggling drugs in Thailand is a bad idea."

or: "Don't kill people."

or: "Have sex with people your own age."

Thanks! 

Typical L/P schoolboy retort.

[kat]

Good post Toastwars. I have found that almost all the expats in Bangkwang are really just stupid boys who got tempted in a moment of madness by professional conmen. Often they are stitched up from the start as they are always caught by informants - who are the real drug dealers using these boys as decoys, or as fodder to keep the drug enforcement police happy. They are not professional theives and certainly not profeesional drug dealers - but were taken for a ride by experienced dealers offering them a lot of "easy" money. In any ohter country this would be taken into consideration and they would be given sentances of 4-10 years with parole before then. In fact, after 8 years theya re eligible to be transferred home to serve the remainder of their sentances, but are in every case released shortly after being returned as the courts in the developed world consider what is a just sentance in their own country. The exception is with those who are or amintain innocence, with Brits as the 'everything by the book' attitude of uk courts makes them serve at least half of the original sentance (which is always 40 - 99 years), and in some cases Americans who know that conditions in US prisons are far worse than in Thailand.

And they get it easier than the Thai prisoners who are forced into slave labour without safety gear, and without the money or education to apply for Royal Pardons. Many hill tribe folk, especially women, have no legal status in Thailand, and so no rights. They live far from their families who also might not have citizenship (despite being born and bred in thailand) and so cannot travel to Bangkok to visit and give essential money. They have to pay for all basics themselves, and have high numbers of TB and dyssentry from the bad water, and aids from the 'medical' services. Many of these hill tribe women, who were also used as decoys or promised a lot of money for such poor people, are executed or spend life without parole in prison. Many of them also speak English, and most of them can speak some Thai. If there are any people here who would like to help, especially women, I can post some details of names of english speakers. The women really get an even worse deal than the men.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, I'd like those details (on the english-speaking hill-tribe women). Thanks.

[Abandon]

I lost the main list that I had but there is enough to get started below (look through for info on the English language abilites)

http://akha.org/article93.html

main page:http://akha.org/topics.html

some more info at this site: http://www.phaseloop.com/foreignprisoners/...s-thailand.html

Excellent visiting information (though the site is not so well laid out)

http://www.bangkwang.net/pen-pal/

http://www.mail-archive.com/nat-internatio...m/msg00055.html

also offers contacts to follow up

I am a bit cautious to post too many links as many of them list political abuses from murder to land theft, including some 'references' to Royal programs, and I don't want to break forum rules.

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cf...=44&ItemID=3782

I can tell you that the women get a much harder time than the men, especially the hilltribe women. Many are used as decoys, or are arrested and prosecuted without justice, and face sentances not justifiable by any sane person. The womens prison has no walls (only cages) no clean water, slave labour, and prisoners have to pay for everything themselves. Relatives either cannot afford to travel to bangkok, or are not recognised as citizens and cannot travel period. Malnutrition, no health care, TB etc.. are all rife there. However, not to be intimidated, the visitors are well enough treated, and the visiting area does not allow you to see anything of the prison proper, so it is not nearly so disturbing to make a visit as you would expect.

[Neeranam]

and in some cases Americans who know that conditions in US prisons are far worse than in Thailand.

A good post apart from this line.

You surely are not saying that US prisons are worse than Thai ones????

I have been inside Thai prisons and know many people who have been 'residents'.

Things that go on there would NEVER happen in the US.

[chanchao]

> Hey Mr. Farung Luv Thai super moderator....

> As a moderator... super at that..., I would think you have a responsibility

> to respond to topics/posts like this in a neutral manner.

Ok, okay..

> The original poster was asking for information as to whether or not he

> could visit his friend or aquaintance on a holiday.

That's not quite what I got from the OP.. it sounded more like visit any random fellow countryman to bring some cookies and cigarettes. For many people, especially those who think of themselves as 'responsible travellers' instead of 'tourists', a visit to a Thai jail is just another cool & cheap thing to do.

Normally they wouldn't think of visiting a prisoner back home, or even just visit a Thai prisoner, noooo it has to be some white-faced prisoner who they likely perceive has having been setup by corrupt authorities and god knows what else they get from seeing too many movies.

This jail-tourism became so popular that jails now require you to supply a name of an inmate, you can't just show up with your jar of cookies asking to see 'any foreign inmate' anymore. Which is good; it's a jail, not Disneyland.

Of course if you have a friend or relative who you're visiting then that's completely different. Or even if you are genuinely concerned about inmates who are held so far away from home. In that case you will of course also have visited Asian or African inmates in jails back home. Right?

[Ajarn]

noooo it has to be some white-faced prisoner who they likely perceive has having been setup by corrupt authorities and god knows what else they get from seeing too many movies.

Though I might be labled a 'bleeding heart Liberal' on many topics, I take a pretty cut-and-dried atittude regarding most of the farangs in Thai prisons... Outside of the possibilty of some being 'innocent' (TiT), most are there paying the price for their play. Everyone knows that prison here sucks, and everyone knows Thailand gives serious consequences if caught. They tried to beat the odds, and lost. Some lost because they were snitched on, some were caught at the airport.... But all knew what they were doing, and the heavy consequences for their actions. Calling them "really just stupid boys who got tempted in a moment of madness by professional conmen" is naive thinking at its best, in my opinion. I used to work with prisoners at San Quentin, and many of these guys spew lots of crap to hook people...Even tourists on a 'prison tour'

But, everyone deserves humanity, even farangs in prisons. Who the ###### cares if they didn't visit prisoners at home first? The point is, they are at least trying to do something positive for someone here now, and slagging them for that just ain't very humane, in my book. You can't change your past actions, but you can change your present and future actions. Visiting Thai prisons is maybe the best Reality Check there is in Thailand. I feel people should be encouraged to go, not spat on for going.

[Abandon]

I have made a number of visits to Bang Kwang so I feel that I do know what I am talking about. Calling the inmates 'mostly just stupid boys' is a comment I stand by as I have met them. I mean to contrast them with "hardened criminals" that I have met in other prisons. The latest 2 additions were just 20 years old when convicted, and had no serious prior. They WERE stupid, and neither I or themselves are making excuses for that. Yes they new the risk and they took it - why do you need to mention that as if it were not obvious? And yes - Thailand does have stiff penalties -we all know that so again why bring it up as if we don't?

What they are not are nasty crimial tattood, shake-in-your-boots-if-you-met-them-in-an-ally kind of folk - they are nice enough boys serving sentances that would not be given by any sane court in the West - reflected in the fact that they are released quickly upon re-patriation after 8 or more years. I bring this fact up because some kindly folk who might be willing to help might be put off by such an image.

So far as I know, only one western inmate is claiming innocence, and his claim is backed up by Fari Trials Abroad, who are not in the habit of claiming innocence for all applicants. I personally believe him, but am not out to convince anyone else of it.

I also stand by my statement that conditions are worse in the US, and also in many British prisons, reflected in the fact that inmates, in almost every case, are not willing to be transferred to their home countries until they have written assurance of quick freedom (which they do get). The British prisoners are the exception to this due to an antiquated treaty, and the stiff-@ssed British by-the-book attitude. We are currently applying pressure for this to be changed.

In short, Thai prisons have the problems of:

-needing to pay yourself for basic amenities, even soap, razor blades, books etc.

-The food is just sour fish-head stew and to remain healthy they need to buy proper food, or have supporters bring it to them.

-Extreme overcrowding with 36 to a cell (this has improved in the last 6 months with nearly 5000 prisoners moved). Many corridors are also used as cells.

-Extreme boredom as no passtimes are provided, such as few reading materials. This is possibly the main complaint of the prisoners.

-TB and AIDS are rife, and flu, and dengue fever have periodic epidemics.

This is for foreigners, for Thai's it is somewhat worse, particularly in cases where there is "coercion" for confessions or information. Also Thai's are forced into labour without safety gear, and without meaningful payment.

The women have it worse, with extremely bad water, little support from the outside, and cages instead of walls. Also, I understand, the foreign women are not exempt from labour (unless they pay).

The reasons why it is better than US prisons (and prisons vary enormously in the States) is that it is safe, the guards are nice so long as you do not cause trouble; there is a lot of freedom within the compound for exercise, socialisation etc. Inmates are free to write letters for instance (a privelage often severely restricted to US prisoners) or to receive visitors. There have been no instances of male rape in Thai prisons, amongst western prisoners. Medical care is just as bad in both countries, but better in the UK. US prisons are especially brutal, especially with such methods as 5 point restraint, beatings, and sleep deprivation etc for those who try and lodge a complaint against the guards.

But it all varies - for example many prisons in the US allow TVs, or Brazilian prisons that allow weekly contact visits with wives (including sleeping together) and family. Also parole is structured in the US, as opposed to the uncertainty and pot luck of Royal pardons in Thailand.

As for prison tourism, why not let the prisoners decide if they appreciate it or not? What is your beef - if you don't want to go don't. Simple

I have found that the inmates generally appreciate just being able to chat to people of their own country, to alleviate boredom as much as anything. Most of them just like to chat about regular stuff, and are not out to pour their miseries on anyone. There are a few prisoners who do not appreciate visits, so try and find out who does and does not.

You do not need to go to the embassy to get names before you go. But it is best if you have a name and building number for filling out the forms. Look in here to find the names and information (such as their crime)http://www.phaseloop.com/foreignprisoners/prisoners.html

Note the name, building number, and visiting days for that building. Most westerners can be visited on mondays and wednesdays in the morining or afternoon.

Otherwise, there is a foreign affairs office next to the prison gate, across the road from where you fill out the forms. The guards there know the names of prisoners who are open to visits, and who is available. Its worth taking your list from the site above and checking in there first, as the prisoner might be waiting for a contact visit from someone (mostly in the month of December). The guards there are extremely helpful (though that may be becaue I'm a recognised social worker). Also someone on your list might have been transferred, or be involved in court, so have a few alternatives, and check in that office.

The foreigners there do appreciate visits, do appreciate food/money, and do appreciate morale support. So if you are interested, even if for your own reasons, do make the effort.

[chanchao]

Very impressive and informative post Pandit, thanks for posting... Gave me lots to think about!

Cheers,

Chanchao

[kataiseeker]

Very detailed and thoughtful post pandit35!

I have worked with volunteer prisoner aid groups in the US in the past and while conditions vary greatly from prison to prison, many prisons have appaling conditions in the US.

The US has the highest per capita prison population of any country in the world. Male rape is common and the some of the guards are often as sadistic as some of the prisoners. On the other side of the coin some of the guards are they nicest, kindest people you will ever meet. Food is often spoiled or possibly contaminated since they often buy up surplus and recalled food like e-coli recalled stuff. If it's cooked thoroughly is might not cause problems but food posioning is common.

Prisoner to prisoner violence in the US is epidemic even when the guards try and stop it. Conditions vary as well as to what security level the prisoners are.

Although most people in prisons deserve to be there, many in the US as well as Thailand are there because of a one-time poor judgement. I think mistake might be too forgiving, but lack of judgement is a lot more common reason than being a hard-core career criminals, which exist as well.

Once I get to Thailand, I plan on making fairly regular visits to Bang Kwang.

Kataiseeker

[skycop51]

People who mess with children need to be shot on the spot. Hate them most I think.

> and perhaps to pass on a message.

How about:  "Smuggling drugs in Thailand is a bad idea."

or: "Don't kill people."

or: "Have sex with people your own age."

Thanks!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[shotover]

In short, Thai prisons have the problems of:

-Extreme boredom as no passtimes are provided, such as few reading materials. This is possibly the main complaint of the prisoners.

Excellent post and information. I have a lot of recently purchased magazines. Would farang prisoners appreciate receiving these, and do prison officials allow visitors to give prisoners reading materials such as these?

[DJ_Tom]

Don't have to go that far. There's quite a few would-be prisoners on Khao San, Soi Cowboy, Patpong, Nana etc.

[Abandon]

Magazines with a lot of pictures are usually frowned upon and not forwarded, especially if there are pictures of women in them. But anyway, you can hand them over and ask if they will be allowed. The guards are suprisingly helpful and nice to deal with. Novels, documentary style and educational books are the most appreciated, and will be passed around until they have fallen to bits.

Scan down the following link for what to take, and what not to take:

http://www.bangkwang.net/visit/index.htm

Printed matter will takes several weeks, even months before it has passed the censor and handed over. Though of course, the prisoners are not going anywhere.