British Citizen With Massive Overstay

[PREM-R]

I have just been asked by a local bar owner if I can assist with the predicament of one of his "regulars". It seems that a British passport holder has accumulated "several years" of overstay in Thailand and has now been convinced to "sort it out". He has managed to renew his expired passport at the Embassy in Bangkok and now is wanting to clear the overstay. As far as I can see his only option is to try to get to the airport in Bangkok with a ticket to Singapore or Malaysia and 20,000 baht for his fine. My question is: what are the consequences for him of having a passport with no stamps in it? Will they just fine him the maximum and send him on his way or will there be more to it than that? Are there any other ways he can clear his overstay without the risk of arrest?

[A_Traveller]

If the expired passport has disappeared then all he can do is present himself at the airport and pay the fine. The system should link him to his last entry, assuming it wasn't in the days of clay tablets and so not having the passport is less of an issue.

Regards

PS Reading between the lines here, I wouldn't recommend trying to clear in country.

Edited June 18, 2007 by A_Traveller

[Fred Sanford]

they will have a record of his last entry for sure

[PeaceBlondie]

I stood at the embassy officers' queues one day, next to a fellow American who had a 15 (fifteen!) year overstay. He told the officer that Immigration Police came to his condo with a search warrant and confiscated his passport! The American officer said they could not issue a new passport without the old one.

I knew of a neighbor who paid 20K for her child who was a few months overdue. But with multiple years of overstay, would the police invoke a more harsh punishment?

[chinthee]

I stood at the embassy officers' queues one day, next to a fellow American who had a 15 (fifteen!) year overstay. He told the officer that Immigration Police came to his condo with a search warrant and confiscated his passport! The American officer said they could not issue a new passport without the old one.

It's not relevant, but I'm just curious what kind of person would do that. Did he look shabby, unkempt, etc., or like a "normal" person?

[PhilHarries]

Or, PB, when will they crackdown (fave term in LoS) on these overstayers and raise the minimum fine so it's uneconomic to overstay rather than do visa runs?

Or, more draconian, when will they start issuing those nice little PNG stamps as well as a fine?

[Sunbelt Asia]

I have just been asked by a local bar owner if I can assist with the predicament of one of his "regulars". It seems that a British passport holder has accumulated "several years" of overstay in Thailand and has now been convinced to "sort it out". He has managed to renew his expired passport at the Embassy in Bangkok and now is wanting to clear the overstay. As far as I can see his only option is to try to get to the airport in Bangkok with a ticket to Singapore or Malaysia and 20,000 baht for his fine. My question is: what are the consequences for him of having a passport with no stamps in it? Will they just fine him the maximum and send him on his way or will there be more to it than that? Are there any other ways he can clear his overstay without the risk of arrest?

He cannot just go the airport as his passport does not have the date when he entered. They will not allow him on the plane without him going to Immigration first and getting this entry stamped into his passport. Our professional fee is 3,000 Baht to go with him and clear this up. He will need a airplane ticket showing he will be leaving that night or the next day. For this amount of overstay he will also be paying the 20K at Immigration. Sometimes our lawyers are able to convince the officer to transfer the entry stamp and they pay the overstay fine at the airport but with this amt of overstay, he will need to pay the fine at Immigration and then pay 1,800 Baht for a 7 day extension.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[A_Traveller]

Or, PB, when will they crackdown (fave term in LoS) on these overstayers and raise the minimum fine so it's uneconomic to overstay rather than do visa runs?

Or, more draconian, when will they start issuing those nice little PNG stamps as well as a fine?

My understanding is that the daily fine could be adjusted by an order, but that the maximum fine can only be adjusted by an act passed by the House. Can't swear to it though. I do think it's strange to now be in the position that the max out is 40 days and as I've said elsewhere, the mindset that position can create. When the major changes were going through last year I do know that over-stay was discussed, with a view to an amnesty and then tougher punishments, but it didn't come to fruition.

Regards

PS Would be useful to know if the gentleman still has his original passport. If so then he should be able to present that at the airport along with his new valid to travel one.

/edit PS //

Edited June 18, 2007 by A_Traveller

[Paulbangkok]

I'm aware of a very similar situation where the offender did get the overstay paid off at Thai Immigration but as the previous record of entry was past 365 days and the original passport was absent he had to return to his Country of Origin (Canada in this case) in order for him to return to the Kingdom.

I'm sorry if this is in any way inaccurate as it was quite some time ago and it may not have been 365 days, but another predetermined length of time however the offender definately did have to Journey back to Canada and was granted prompt re-entry on him return.

[cali4995]

Sunbelt's 3k baht offer is a real bargain. Imagine waltzing into Suan Phlu on a multi-year overstay to get a replacement entry stamp. The stink of fear from the I.D.C. lingering in the air. And the conversations that will ensue......farang! why you overstay! how long! mafia!

The legal representation might be a good idea, you're still a looong way from the airport.

Edited June 18, 2007 by cali4995

[PeaceBlondie]

I stood at the embassy officers' queues one day, next to a fellow American who had a 15 (fifteen!) year overstay. He told the officer that Immigration Police came to his condo with a search warrant and confiscated his passport! The American officer said they could not issue a new passport without the old one.

It's not relevant, but I'm just curious what kind of person would do that. Did he look shabby, unkempt, etc., or like a "normal" person?

In fact, I'd known the guy casually for years. He always seemed pleasant enough, well dressed, sober - but not overly friendly. If he had any behavioural problems, they weren't obvious.

As for draconian punishments for outlandishly long overstays - when they increased the daily fee from 200 to 500 baht, didn't we discuss that the law itself also permitted imprisonment or something? I recall wondering if something so egregious would make the officer look further into the law to punish multiple years of overstay.

[farangsay]

Sunbelt's 3k baht offer is a real bargain. Imagine waltzing into Suan Phlu on a multi-year overstay to get a replacement entry stamp. The stink of fear from the I.D.C. lingering in the air. And the conversations that will ensue......farang! why you overstay! how long! mafia!

The legal representation might be a good idea, you're still a looong way from the airport.

Seconded.

A real bargain.

Even if it goes totally pear shaped at least there is someone there who would communicate back to his friends (and he does seem to have one or two) that he is in the IDC and could assist him in getting out and leaving the country.

[tropo]

Sunbelt's 3k baht offer is a real bargain. Imagine waltzing into Suan Phlu on a multi-year overstay to get a replacement entry stamp. The stink of fear from the I.D.C. lingering in the air. And the conversations that will ensue......farang! why you overstay! how long! mafia!

The legal representation might be a good idea, you're still a looong way from the airport.

Seconded.

A real bargain.

Even if it goes totally pear shaped at least there is someone there who would communicate back to his friends (and he does seem to have one or two) that he is in the IDC and could assist him in getting out and leaving the country.

Yes, that's cheap. I'd be heading to Sunbelt immediately if I was you.

[Koratcat1]

Sunbelt's 3k baht offer is a real bargain. Imagine waltzing into Suan Phlu on a multi-year overstay to get a replacement entry stamp. The stink of fear from the I.D.C. lingering in the air. And the conversations that will ensue......farang! why you overstay! how long! mafia!

The legal representation might be a good idea, you're still a looong way from the airport.

Seconded.

A real bargain.

Even if it goes totally pear shaped at least there is someone there who would communicate back to his friends (and he does seem to have one or two) that he is in the IDC and could assist him in getting out and leaving the country.

Yes, that's cheap. I'd be heading to Sunbelt immediately if I was you.

The fact Sunbelt are offering their services so cheap is evidence they are confident he will face no problems at the airport. He wil be required to pay his fine, his name will be checked against their database of wanted farangs and off he will go. Why would they detain him? Good riddance is the policy.

[astral]

Go with the Sunbelt offer.

It makes the most sense.

[Prakanong]

Sunbelt's 3k baht offer is a real bargain. Imagine waltzing into Suan Phlu on a multi-year overstay to get a replacement entry stamp. The stink of fear from the I.D.C. lingering in the air. And the conversations that will ensue......farang! why you overstay! how long! mafia!

The legal representation might be a good idea, you're still a looong way from the airport.

Could not agree more - that 3k THb is a bloody pittance for him to pay in that situation for a bit of backup and peace of mind.

[Koratcat1]

Sunbelt's 3k baht offer is a real bargain. Imagine waltzing into Suan Phlu on a multi-year overstay to get a replacement entry stamp. The stink of fear from the I.D.C. lingering in the air. And the conversations that will ensue......farang! why you overstay! how long! mafia!

The legal representation might be a good idea, you're still a looong way from the airport.

Could not agree more - that 3k THb is a bloody pittance for him to pay in that situation for a bit of backup and peace of mind.

Don't rely on Sunbelt. They self evidently have limited experience of this situation and lawyers are not popular with all immigration officers.

Book a cheap flight out the country. Go to the airport with both old and new passports. Do not go to an immigration office. You risk detention until you can come up with the price of an air ticket to your home country.

Check in staff only care you have a valid passport and necessary visa for destination.

Immigration attitude will be pay up, eff off and good riddance (and respect, man, for getting away with it for so long).

What advice did his embassy give? They must have said something.

[astral]

Sunbelt's 3k baht offer is a real bargain. Imagine waltzing into Suan Phlu on a multi-year overstay to get a replacement entry stamp. The stink of fear from the I.D.C. lingering in the air. And the conversations that will ensue......farang! why you overstay! how long! mafia!

The legal representation might be a good idea, you're still a looong way from the airport.

Could not agree more - that 3k THb is a bloody pittance for him to pay in that situation for a bit of backup and peace of mind.

Don't rely on Sunbelt. They self evidently have limited experience of this situation and lawyers are not popular with all immigration officers.

Book a cheap flight out the country. Go to the airport with both old and new passports. Do not go to an immigration office. You risk detention until you can come up with the price of an air ticket to your home country.

Check in staff only care you have a valid passport and necessary visa for destination.

Immigration attitude will be pay up, eff off and good riddance (and respect, man, for getting away with it for so long).

What advice did his embassy give? They must have said something.

So with only 28 posts under your belt you are the expert????????????????

Follow the Sunbelt advice.

[Neeranam]

I'd go to the airport myself with 20,500 baht in an envelope. Best to ge an early morning flight.

My friend did this with 8 years overstay - no problems.

[Sir Burr]

So with only 28 posts under your belt you are the expert????????????????

What has post count got to do with the price of fish?

Go with the airport option as per Neeranam. No problems.

[Tywais]

So with only 28 posts under your belt you are the expert????????????????

What has post count got to do with the price of fish?

Go with the airport option as per Neeranam. No problems.

Some dangerous advise going around here. In Neeranam's case he didn't mention if his acquaintance still had his passport with his entry stamp in it. In the case here, no entry stamp shown in the passport suggests illegal entry into the country to immigration and there has been a past topic(s) where an individual was jailed then deported because of that missing stamp. Yes I know, it should be on record - but this is Thailand.

2nd, if he gets detained/arrested by the police before arriving at either immigration (better choice) or the airport, he is pretty much guaranteed to get some time in IDC.

I agree, Sunbelt is the best option.

[Koratcat1]

Sunbelt's 3k baht offer is a real bargain. Imagine waltzing into Suan Phlu on a multi-year overstay to get a replacement entry stamp. The stink of fear from the I.D.C. lingering in the air. And the conversations that will ensue......farang! why you overstay! how long! mafia!

The legal representation might be a good idea, you're still a looong way from the airport.

Could not agree more - that 3k THb is a bloody pittance for him to pay in that situation for a bit of backup and peace of mind.

Don't rely on Sunbelt. They self evidently have limited experience of this situation and lawyers are not popular with all immigration officers.

Book a cheap flight out the country. Go to the airport with both old and new passports. Do not go to an immigration office. You risk detention until you can come up with the price of an air ticket to your home country.

Check in staff only care you have a valid passport and necessary visa for destination.

Immigration attitude will be pay up, eff off and good riddance (and respect, man, for getting away with it for so long).

What advice did his embassy give? They must have said something.

So with only 28 posts under your belt you are the expert????????????????

Follow the Sunbelt advice.

I offer an opinion. I do not claim to be an expert. I do however know what some immigration officers think of lawyers. I may be new to the forum but not new to Thailand.

If only experts posted there'd be sod all worth reading.

[Maestro]

... didn't we discuss that the law itself also permitted imprisonment or something? I recall wondering if something so egregious would make the officer look further into the law to punish multiple years of overstay.

That’s right. From Thailand’s Immigration Act:

Section 81 : Any alien who stay in the Kingdom without permission or with permission expired or revoked shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding two years or a fine not exceeding 20,000 Baht or both.

I believe the current practice of collecting an overstay fine of 500 Baht per day, maximum 20,000 Baht is based on an internal rule of the Immigration Bureau, probably a National Police Order, and therefore the Immigration officer would not have the authority to go beyond that and impose also imprisonment, but he might have the authority to refer the offender to the police for arrest – no report of this happening yet – and subsequent trial in court, where a judge would have to decide on the “imprisonment not exceeding two years or a fine not exceeding 20,000 Baht or both”. The judge would not be bound by the limits of the internal rule, only by the terms of the Immigration Act. Arrest and court appearance are, of course, the norm if the overstayer gets checked and found out before he makes it to the immigration office or the airport to volunteer payment of the fine.

--

Maestro

[Neeranam]

So with only 28 posts under your belt you are the expert????????????????

What has post count got to do with the price of fish?

Go with the airport option as per Neeranam. No problems.

Some dangerous advise going around here. In Neeranam's case he didn't mention if his acquaintance still had his passport with his entry stamp in it. In the case here, no entry stamp shown in the passport suggests illegal entry into the country to immigration and there has been a past topic(s) where an individual was jailed then deported because of that missing stamp. Yes I know, it should be on record - but this is Thailand.

2nd, if he gets detained/arrested by the police before arriving at either immigration (better choice) or the airport, he is pretty much guaranteed to get some time in IDC.

I agree, Sunbelt is the best option.

Sorry, he did have his passport. I'd feel safer doing this than using a lawyer. There are lots of bent lawyers around.

Edited June 18, 2007 by Neeranam

[Maestro]

Don't rely on Sunbelt. They self evidently have limited experience of this

I suggest to members reading the above to ignore it as the poster has evidently produced no evidence in support of his statement.

Anyway, I believe any member who has read this forum for a few months will be able to form his/her own opinion about the experience of Sunbelt.

--

Maestro

[Koratcat1]

So with only 28 posts under your belt you are the expert????????????????

What has post count got to do with the price of fish?

Go with the airport option as per Neeranam. No problems.

Some dangerous advise going around here. In Neeranam's case he didn't mention if his acquaintance still had his passport with his entry stamp in it. In the case here, no entry stamp shown in the passport suggests illegal entry into the country to immigration and there has been a past topic(s) where an individual was jailed then deported because of that missing stamp. Yes I know, it should be on record - but this is Thailand.

2nd, if he gets detained/arrested by the police before arriving at either immigration (better choice) or the airport, he is pretty much guaranteed to get some time in IDC.

I agree, Sunbelt is the best option.

The fact he has a new passport, rather than an emergency one suggests he has his old passport.

He is more likely, by reference to this forum, to be detained at an immigration office than the airport.

His chance of being stopped en route to the airport or an immigration office are virtually nil.

Every overstayer posting on this site is advised to get straight to the airport. 1 day or 10years this is the best advice. No disrespect to Sunbelt but showing clear evidence of leaving the country (i.e. turn up at BKK with a ticket and 20k THB) is the way to sort this out - in my opinion.

If he doesn't have the old passport with an entry stamp then he needs to ensure he has sufficient funds for a one way full fare ticket on a direct flight to his home country then seek consular assistance.

[Koratcat1]

Don't rely on Sunbelt. They self evidently have limited experience of this

I suggest to members reading the above to ignore it as the poster has evidently produced no evidence in support of his statement.

Anyway, I believe any member who has read this forum for a few months will be able to form his/her own opinion about the experience of Sunbelt.

--

Maestro

I am in no doubt of the knowledge and expertise and experience of Sunbelt in legal and immigrastion matters. I know a couple of peple who have used their services and are completely satisfied. And there are many testimonials to their professionalism in this forum

I use the term "self-evidently have limited experience" because this is such a rare occurence that I must be correct. My advice is given honestly and concurs with that consistently given on this site - get to the airport. Thats what I would do.

[Maestro]

I have just been asked by a local bar owner if I can assist with the predicament of one of his "regulars...

REM-R, by now you will have realised that you are in a bit of a quandary. Advise your local bar owner to advise his customer to use the services of Sunbelt to go and pay his fine at the Immigration office, or to go straight to the airport and offer to pay his fine there?

Whichever option the overstayer chooses it would be interesting to hear from you later how it went, if you have a way of finding out.

--

Maestro

[cali4995]

I think the technical point Sunbelt made, was that in the event of loss / theft of a passport, an individual must take the new passport to Suan Phlu to get a replacement entry stamp. Going to the airport directly isn't an option. At least that's my tentative understanding, perhaps when Sunbelt checks-in he can clarify that issue. I guess they've handled this before.

Edited June 18, 2007 by cali4995

[ratcatcher]

I have just been asked by a local bar owner if I can assist with the predicament of one of his "regulars". It seems that a British passport holder has accumulated "several years" of overstay in Thailand and has now been convinced to "sort it out". He has managed to renew his expired passport at the Embassy in Bangkok and now is wanting to clear the overstay. As far as I can see his only option is to try to get to the airport in Bangkok with a ticket to Singapore or Malaysia and 20,000 baht for his fine. My question is: what are the consequences for him of having a passport with no stamps in it? Will they just fine him the maximum and send him on his way or will there be more to it than that? Are there any other ways he can clear his overstay without the risk of arrest?

This thread has been a most interesting read.

My question is this: What on earth makes these guys think that they can live here in Thailand,where 99% of farangs obey the immigration laws re visas and reporting etc, without doing the correct thing and reporting every 90 days or leaving the country when his legal visa expires?.

What has this character been doing for "several years" while he never bothered to report to immigration? Is he on the run? Is he senile?

Just curious.

Edited June 19, 2007 by ratcatcher