Exit Poll Results Show PPP Wins

[raybingham]

Balanced reporting from the BBC:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7162774.stm

[bulmercke]

Where have the PPP stated that they will let him off scott free?- even they know that is a decision only the courts can make.

Where have they stated that?

All I've seen is that they rejected the preconditions by Barnhan et al... of which, that was one of them....

Good point. It seems that an important precondition was that the PPP must not let Thakasin off - to go scott free - or near enough to that scenario.

The PPP rejected that.

Looks like that after five days after the election the PPP is showing it's true colours!

Wouldn't be surprised if they outright rejected all the pre-conditions - such is my toal mistrust of the PPP's sinister agenda. They're Thaksin's boys after all - bought 'lock, stock and barrel'.

[blaze]

Where have the PPP stated that they will let him off scott free?- even they know that is a decision only the courts can make.

Where have they stated that?

All I've seen is that they rejected the preconditions by Barnhan et al... of which, that was one of them....

Good point. It seems that an important precondition was that the PPP must not let Thakasin off - to go scott free - or near enough to that scenario.

The PPP rejected that.

Looks like that after five days after the election the PPP is showing it's true colours!

Wouldn't be surprised if they outright rejected all the pre-conditions - such is my toal mistrust of the PPP's sinister agenda. They're Thaksin's boys after all - bought 'lock, stock and barrel'.

There were five preconditions. The only one that I heard the PPP comment on was respect for the monarchy (and the reasoning, I thought made sense- it would be like you to say you'll engage me in conversation only providing I promise not to steal your family china while we talk- a bit of an insult- and a dangerous one.).

Edited December 28, 2007 by blaze

[sriracha john]

Where have the PPP stated that they will let him off scott free?- even they know that is a decision only the courts can make.

Where have they stated that?

All I've seen is that they rejected the preconditions by Barnhan et al... of which, that was one of them....

Balanced reporting from the BBC:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7162774.stm

which includes the following in regards to the above....

But a PPP-led government might make the climate a good deal easier for Mr Thaksin, as his supporters argue that the charges are politically-motivated, and would likely press to have them withdrawn.

[sriracha john]

Where have the PPP stated that they will let him off scott free?- even they know that is a decision only the courts can make.

Where have they stated that?

All I've seen is that they rejected the preconditions by Barnhan et al... of which, that was one of them....

Good point. It seems that an important precondition was that the PPP must not let Thakasin off - to go scott free - or near enough to that scenario.

The PPP rejected that.

Looks like that after five days after the election the PPP is showing it's true colours!

Wouldn't be surprised if they outright rejected all the pre-conditions - such is my toal mistrust of the PPP's sinister agenda. They're Thaksin's boys after all - bought 'lock, stock and barrel'.

There were five preconditions. The only one that I heard the PPP comment on was respect for the monarchy (and the reasoning, I thought made sense- it would be like you to say you'll engage me in conversation only providing I promise not to steal your family china while we talk- a bit of an insult- and a dangerous one.).

Or conversely.... one that is very very easy to agree to... as in, "It should go without saying, but if you insist, sure.. we'll agree to do that. That's the easy one...No problem. Next?"

Edited December 28, 2007 by sriracha john

[blaze]

Where have the PPP stated that they will let him off scott free?- even they know that is a decision only the courts can make.

Where have they stated that?

All I've seen is that they rejected the preconditions by Barnhan et al... of which, that was one of them....

Good point. It seems that an important precondition was that the PPP must not let Thakasin off - to go scott free - or near enough to that scenario.

The PPP rejected that.

Looks like that after five days after the election the PPP is showing it's true colours!

Wouldn't be surprised if they outright rejected all the pre-conditions - such is my toal mistrust of the PPP's sinister agenda. They're Thaksin's boys after all - bought 'lock, stock and barrel'.

There were five preconditions. The only one that I heard the PPP comment on was respect for the monarchy (and the reasoning, I thought made sense- it would be like you to say you'll engage me in conversation only providing I promise not to steal your family china while we talk- a bit of an insult- and a dangerous one.).

Or conversely.... one that is very very easy to agree to... as in, "It should go without saying, but if you insist, sure.. we'll agree to do that. That's the easy one...No problem. Next?"

If the other four are firmly established in the public mind as being fact- then what is the public to make of that fifth? Were I to say to you for instance that you couldn't discuss anything regarding the navy, nothing about computer skills, none of Thaksins shortcomings- no mention of living on the Eastern Seaboard- and no discussion of the merits of selling pot to fourth grade skaters- now what would your response be? I know what mine would.

(Please don't take this personally SRJ- just illustrating a point and I hope you don't take offense.)

Edited December 28, 2007 by blaze

[sriracha john]

Where have the PPP stated that they will let him off scott free?- even they know that is a decision only the courts can make.

Where have they stated that?

All I've seen is that they rejected the preconditions by Barnhan et al... of which, that was one of them....

Good point. It seems that an important precondition was that the PPP must not let Thakasin off - to go scott free - or near enough to that scenario.

The PPP rejected that.

Looks like that after five days after the election the PPP is showing it's true colours!

Wouldn't be surprised if they outright rejected all the pre-conditions - such is my toal mistrust of the PPP's sinister agenda. They're Thaksin's boys after all - bought 'lock, stock and barrel'.

There were five preconditions. The only one that I heard the PPP comment on was respect for the monarchy (and the reasoning, I thought made sense- it would be like you to say you'll engage me in conversation only providing I promise not to steal your family china while we talk- a bit of an insult- and a dangerous one.).

Or conversely.... one that is very very easy to agree to... as in, "It should go without saying, but if you insist, sure.. we'll agree to do that. That's the easy one...No problem. Next?"

If the other four are firmly established in the public mind as being fact- then what is the public to make of that fifth? Were I to say to you for instance that you couldn't discuss anything regarding the navy, nothing about computer skills, none of Thaksins shortcomings- no mention of living on the Eastern Seaboard- and no discussion of the merits of selling pot to fourth grade skaters- now what would your response be? I know what mine would.

(Please don't take this personally SRJ- just illustrating a point and I hope you don't take offense.) *not possible... no worries*

My response would be

Ok

Ok

Ok

Ok

Ok, sure..that's the easy one.

(although then, I'd be left discussing why americans think that thai children ride elephants to school.)

[bulmercke]

Where have the PPP stated that they will let him off scott free?- even they know that is a decision only the courts can make.

Where have they stated that?

All I've seen is that they rejected the preconditions by Barnhan et al... of which, that was one of them....

Good point. It seems that an important precondition was that the PPP must not let Thakasin off - to go scott free - or near enough to that scenario.

The PPP rejected that.

Looks like that after five days after the election the PPP is showing it's true colours!

Wouldn't be surprised if they outright rejected all the pre-conditions - such is my toal mistrust of the PPP's sinister agenda. They're Thaksin's boys after all - bought 'lock, stock and barrel'.

There were five preconditions. The only one that I heard the PPP comment on was respect for the monarchy (and the reasoning, I thought made sense- it would be like you to say you'll engage me in conversation only providing I promise not to steal your family china while we talk- a bit of an insult- and a dangerous one.).

Yes - but if we go a few steps back - don't you think it's extremely sinister that it was included in the first place as one of the pre-conditions? Do they know something that we don't or fear something?

Your analogy is valid - but if you have a suspicion that I may indeed steal your china while we engage in conversation about other matters - then it isn't an insult - it's a very important precondition - and a dangerous one in that both sides are now aware of the importance of this issue.

Huge questions have to be asked about why these two smaller parties felt it necessary to include it as a pre-condition in the first place.

I would have thought this particular pre-condition would have gone without saying.

Edited December 28, 2007 by bulmercke

[hammered]

Mmmm. Rock and hard place and now Banharn is in hospital with high blood pressure.

It is starting to look like an easy compromise is not going to happen

[Journalist]

He is facing serious charges in Thailand. He can't be extradited.

Thailand has extradition treaties with numerous countries.

[LaoPo]

Interesting discussion so far and quite interesting to see how some -Farang- TV members have the solution how to govern and run Thailand....

But:

"..............the country will continue to be torn between its impoverished rural electorate, and a wealthy, urban elite, who still cannot agree on how Thailand should be governed, and who should run it."

From:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7162774.stm

It does not matter HOW LONG anybody, as a farang, has lived in Thailand but IMHO we will never ever fully understand Thai politics.

If someone claims he/she does....it's a dream, a wet dream though !

Same thing as if one lives for 30/40 years in Spain or Mexico; just forget thinking about politics. You will never understand.

How many of us do understand their homeland politics and their -greedy- power politicians ?

Forget it, but it's fun talking about it, ain't it ?

LaoPo

[hammered]

Where have the PPP stated that they will let him off scott free?- even they know that is a decision only the courts can make.

Where have they stated that?

All I've seen is that they rejected the preconditions by Barnhan et al... of which, that was one of them....

Good point. It seems that an important precondition was that the PPP must not let Thakasin off - to go scott free - or near enough to that scenario.

The PPP rejected that.

Looks like that after five days after the election the PPP is showing it's true colours!

Wouldn't be surprised if they outright rejected all the pre-conditions - such is my toal mistrust of the PPP's sinister agenda. They're Thaksin's boys after all - bought 'lock, stock and barrel'.

There were five preconditions. The only one that I heard the PPP comment on was respect for the monarchy (and the reasoning, I thought made sense- it would be like you to say you'll engage me in conversation only providing I promise not to steal your family china while we talk- a bit of an insult- and a dangerous one.).

Yes - but if we go a few steps back - don't you think it's extremely sinister that it was included in the first place as one of the pre-conditions? Do they know something that we don't or fear something?

Your analogy is valid - but if you have a suspicion that I may indeed steal your china while we engage in conversation about other matters - then it isn't an insult - it's a very important precondition - and a dangerous one in that both sides are now aware of the importance of this issue.

Huge questions have to be asked about why these two smaller parties felt it necessary to include it as a pre-condition in the first place.

I would have thought this particular pre-condition would have gone without saying.

The preconditions also identify the two parties and where they stand on loyalty to who issues and use of law. It may be as simple as they wanted to publically show this before entering an alliance with what some see as the devil and they didnt realise or think through what they said could look very very negative on the PPP. On the other hand maybe they knew full well......

Interesting new year coming up. But i intend to enjoy it and drink myself into oblivion.

[bulmercke]

"The five preconditions are the reverence of the monarchy; refraining from disrespecting General Prem Tinsulanonda, President of the Privy Council; no reprisals; Thaksin's return to face due legal process on corruption charges and no meddling with agencies such as the Assets Examination Committee."

The five pre-conditions:

1. Reverence of the monarchy. This should go without saying. Why was it included in the list of pre-conditions in the first place?

2. Refraining from disrespecting General Prem Tinsulanonda. Why was this included as well?

3. No reprisals. No surprise in the inclusion of this one - proves that these two smaller parties see the PPP as an instrument of Thaksin. Thaksin's a very vindictive person by nature.

4. Thaksin's return to face due legal process on corruption charges. Suggests they fear government interference in juridicial matters concerning Thaksin's affairs. i.e. the corruption charges will be dropped.

5. No meddling with agencies such as the Assets Examination Committee. More of the same fear.

Oh boy!

[Ricardo]

"PPP spokesman Kuthep Saikrachang... said the issues of the monarch and respect to Privy Council president Prem Tinsulanonda, another point in the condition, should not be tabled for a political negotiation since "it could create the misunderstanding that the PPP is a troublemaker as far as these issues are concerned." "

There were five preconditions. The only one that I heard the PPP comment on was respect for the monarchy (and the reasoning, I thought made sense- it would be like you to say you'll engage me in conversation only providing I promise not to steal your family china while we talk- a bit of an insult- and a dangerous one.).

Blaze, as you can see from the above quote, the PPP have actually commented on two preconditions, not one.

[bulmercke]

Where have the PPP stated that they will let him off scott free?- even they know that is a decision only the courts can make.

Where have they stated that?

All I've seen is that they rejected the preconditions by Barnhan et al... of which, that was one of them....

Good point. It seems that an important precondition was that the PPP must not let Thakasin off - to go scott free - or near enough to that scenario.

The PPP rejected that.

Looks like that after five days after the election the PPP is showing it's true colours!

Wouldn't be surprised if they outright rejected all the pre-conditions - such is my toal mistrust of the PPP's sinister agenda. They're Thaksin's boys after all - bought 'lock, stock and barrel'.

There were five preconditions. The only one that I heard the PPP comment on was respect for the monarchy (and the reasoning, I thought made sense- it would be like you to say you'll engage me in conversation only providing I promise not to steal your family china while we talk- a bit of an insult- and a dangerous one.).

Yes - but if we go a few steps back - don't you think it's extremely sinister that it was included in the first place as one of the pre-conditions? Do they know something that we don't or fear something?

Your analogy is valid - but if you have a suspicion that I may indeed steal your china while we engage in conversation about other matters - then it isn't an insult - it's a very important precondition - and a dangerous one in that both sides are now aware of the importance of this issue.

Huge questions have to be asked about why these two smaller parties felt it necessary to include it as a pre-condition in the first place.

I would have thought this particular pre-condition would have gone without saying.

The preconditions also identify the two parties and where they stand on loyalty to who issues and use of law. It may be as simple as they wanted to publically show this before entering an alliance with what some see as the devil and they didnt realise or think through what they said could look very very negative on the PPP. On the other hand maybe they knew full well......

Interesting new year coming up. But i intend to enjoy it and drink myself into oblivion.

QUOTE:"PPP spokesman Surapong Suebwonglee told journalists that his party rejected the five pre-conditions raised by the two-party alliance of Chart Thai (Thai Nation) and Puea Pandin (For the Motherland) parties for joining a coalition government led by PPP, calling the pre-conditions a contempt of the country's existing political system.

The language of the press release doesn't suggest this. It's very strong language.

[bulmercke]

"PPP spokesman Kuthep Saikrachang... said the issues of the monarch and respect to Privy Council president Prem Tinsulanonda, another point in the condition, should not be tabled for a political negotiation since "it could create the misunderstanding that the PPP is a troublemaker as far as these issues are concerned." "

There were five preconditions. The only one that I heard the PPP comment on was respect for the monarchy (and the reasoning, I thought made sense- it would be like you to say you'll engage me in conversation only providing I promise not to steal your family china while we talk- a bit of an insult- and a dangerous one.).

Blaze, as you can see from the above quote, the PPP have actually commented on two preconditions, not one.

O.K. So the PPP have commented on two pre-conditions and not one - but what difference does it make? Again, why did the two smaller parties feel it necessary to include them in the first place?

Very, very sinister. And I'm sure Prem and the military are watching these negotiations very carefully.

[Jingthing]

He is facing serious charges in Thailand. He can't be extradited.

Thailand has extradition treaties with numerous countries.

They could not get him out of the UK. Do you seriously think he will return if he doesn't have a SPECIAL DEAL from PPP that he will not be jailed and not have all his money taken from him? That's ridiculous. PPP ran as a TRT THAKSIN proxy. Get the connection. Are you so naive as to think it is coincidence that only NOW he is talking about coming back in February? Do you think he will come back if Abhisit is PM?

Edited December 28, 2007 by Jingthing

[bulmercke]

He is facing serious charges in Thailand. He can't be extradited.

Thailand has extradition treaties with numerous countries.

They could not get him out of the UK. Do you seriously think he will return if he doesn't have a SPECIAL DEAL from PPP that he will not be jailed and not have all his money taken from him? That's ridiculous. PPP ran as a TRT THAKSIN proxy. Get the connection.

Exactly. The problem is that the PPP have been duly elected and now for all intents and purposes is the next government. With that comes a tendency (from some TV members) to condone and overlook the past injustices and wrong-doings of Thai Rak Thai and Thaksin.

The attitude is forget the past and look to the future. That's the scary thing.

They are one of the same. Time for a reality check. Whatever the assurances from some members that the military will act as a 'balance and checks' mechanism - the reality is that Thai Rak Thai is back with a vengeance in all but name - with Thaksin - by hook or crook - hanging onto it's coat tails!

They are the government elect and see themselves accountable to absolutely no one except Thaksin! The judiciary and other branches of the executive might now seem themselves as being above government interrference and independent - but they can easily be corrupted and prejudiced - just as they were during Thaksin's tenure.

[sriracha john]

The PPP has capitulated and agreed to all 5 pre-conditions...sort of.. kind of... in a roundabout way...

Banharn gets PPP offer to join the government

The People Power Party (PPP) yesterday made an offer to Chart Thai leader Banharn Silapa-archa asking him to join the PPP-led coalition government.

Speaking after his 30-minute visit to Ramathibodi Hospital, where Banharn was seeking treatment, PPP Deputy Leader Somchai Wongsawas, a brother-in-law of Thaksin, said yesterday his offer was meant to create a an even more stable coalition government.

He said Banharn would officially announce his decision today.

A PPP source had earlier said Chart Thai and Puea Pandin Parties had already agreed to join the PPP-led government *which was denied by both parties themselves as premature and contradictory to what the PPP says below*, making a six-party coalition, commanding a 315-seat majority, thus leaving the Democrat Party as the sole opposition party.

Meanwhile, PPP leader Samak Sundaravej described the conditions imposed by Chart Thai and Puea Pandin to form a coalition government as an insult to him and his party.

Banharn on Thursday outlined five conditions under which he would accept a position in a People Power coalition government.

They were reverence for the monarchy, respect for Privy Council President and elder statesman General Prem Tinsulanonda, no reprisals, Thaksin Shinawatra's return to face due process of law and no meddling with the work of the Assets Examination Committee.

Samak was especially offended by the condition demanding that a government coalition revere the monarchy. "Banharn has known me for a long time but obviously does not know my family. It has served the monarchy since King Rama VI. Banharn should not lecture me about this," he said.

Samak said there were no plans to dissolve the Assets Examination Committee and there would be no revenge against coup leaders.

PPP Secretary-General Surapong Suebwonglee said the conditions were not intrinsic to the formation of a government. He added that the existing coalition parties, which hold 254 seats, had enough of a majority to form a government but the PPP wanted a more stable government.

At a news conference yesterday, Surapong said the monarchy should not be used as a political bargaining tool and that the PPP respected the Privy Council.

He said his party already embraced the five conditions, adding the main condition for a coalition was for policies all parties could work together with. He said the PPP could not force the two smaller parties to join a coalition.

When asked about inviting just the Puea Pandin to join a coalition, he said the aim was for a stable government and he believed at least four parties were needed. "We announce that if we have more than 280 seats, the next government will be strong," he said.

Speaking alongside Samak, Surapong said Thaksin was not a People Power Party member and would have to defend himself against charges in court if he returned. There are no plans to dissolve the Assets Examination Committee, he said, and would be no benefit to Thaksin in doing so.

People Power spokesman Kuthep Saikrajang believed the Chart Thai and Puea Pandin would understand its position, and it would not refuse them entry.

"We will wait. After they have heard our leader's declaration they will understand our position," he said. However, he believed Puea Pandin would join. He refused to comment on Chart Thai.

Two top executives of that party yesterday toned down the five-point demand, saying it was meant as a working guideline and not a precondition to joining a coalition led by People Power.

Deputy Leader Somsak Prissanananthakul and Chief Adviser Sanan Kachornprasart said Chart Thai and Puea Pandin had put forward the guidelines in the hope of overcoming turmoil.

"Chart Thai is ready to join the coalition if People Power agrees to the guidelines," Somsak said, which he said were easy to follow as reverence for the monarchy was prescribed in every charter and every government was obliged to uphold the monarchy, which was the most revered institution.

He said that in referring to the monarchy the two parties did not question the royalist stand of People Power but merely wanted the next government to rally behind the monarchy. Sanan said the ball was now in People Power's court to decide whether to invite Chart Thai and Puea Pandin to join a coalition. He said the guidelines were designed to create a climate of cooperation in which to kick off the coalition and that there was no need for a ratification process.

Yesterday evening key members of the potential coalition members dined together at the home of a Puea Pandin Party Deputy Leader, Suchart Tancharoen. It was the fifth such meeting between the two since the election.

- The Nation

Edited December 28, 2007 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

Perhaps the PPP conceded to the pre-conditions, because it seemed fairly certain that the Democrats would accept them.

Abhisit sees end to turmoil

Democrat Party Leader Abhisit Vejjajiva said yesterday the five preconditions for a coalition alliance were a good start to ending turmoil.

"I see the conditions in a positive light, as Chart Thai and Puea Pandin parties set out to make clear where they stand in resolving the country's problems," he said in reference to the two parties' pre-conditions to join the alliance formed by the People Power Party.

Abhisit said the Democrats would wait until next Friday before making its next move if the People Power Party failed to form the next government.

He said his party was ready to become the opposition. Democrat Secretary-General Suthep Thaugsuban anticipated People Power to conclude a coalition deal soon.

Negotiations could succeed because the demands were not unreasonable, he said, adding he did not expect a great number of disqualifications to drastically change the election outcome.

- The Nation

[blaze]

Where have the PPP stated that they will let him off scott free?- even they know that is a decision only the courts can make.

Where have they stated that?

All I've seen is that they rejected the preconditions by Barnhan et al... of which, that was one of them....

Good point. It seems that an important precondition was that the PPP must not let Thakasin off - to go scott free - or near enough to that scenario.

The PPP rejected that.

Looks like that after five days after the election the PPP is showing it's true colours!

Wouldn't be surprised if they outright rejected all the pre-conditions - such is my toal mistrust of the PPP's sinister agenda. They're Thaksin's boys after all - bought 'lock, stock and barrel'.

There were five preconditions. The only one that I heard the PPP comment on was respect for the monarchy (and the reasoning, I thought made sense- it would be like you to say you'll engage me in conversation only providing I promise not to steal your family china while we talk- a bit of an insult- and a dangerous one.).

Yes - but if we go a few steps back - don't you think it's extremely sinister that it was included in the first place as one of the pre-conditions? Do they know something that we don't or fear something?

Your analogy is valid - but if you have a suspicion that I may indeed steal your china while we engage in conversation about other matters - then it isn't an insult - it's a very important precondition - and a dangerous one in that both sides are now aware of the importance of this issue.

Huge questions have to be asked about why these two smaller parties felt it necessary to include it as a pre-condition in the first place.

I would have thought this particular pre-condition would have gone without saying.

And that is exactly the response of the PPP- that this is a pre-condition without saying- so why say it at all- unless you believe it to be a question- (in which case- what kind of 'partnership' are we going to have?)

One of the chief reasons for the coup was a suspicion on the part of the royalists and military that Thaksin was seeking to in some way undermine the monarchy. Thaksin vehemently denied this. I can see several reasons the parties would include it: first to ingratiate themselves to the most virulent of anti-Thaksin people while at the same time obtainging the benefits of joining 'his' party.

Next- they may fear a new round of lesse majeste threats and charges- (some of which HRH has said were trivial and a waste of time)- and wish to dissociate themselves in advance from such blanket charges.

Finally- it provides a bit of leverage- it's like the mouse tweaking the cats whiskers- when the mouse knows it has obtained powerful friends.

[blaze]

dammit- sorry -double posted.

Edited December 28, 2007 by blaze

[sriracha john]

Tentative Cabinet list ready

BANGKOK: -- The People Power Party has already discussed a list of possible Cabinet members, as it prepares to announce the make-up of its coalition government on January 4.

Samak Sundaravej would become prime minister, while Chalerm Yoobamrung would take the Interior post, Thanong Bidhaya will be finance minister, with Mingkwan Saeng-suwan as deputy prime minister or commerce minister.

Yongyuth Tiyapairat is tipped for Agriculture and General Ruengroj Mahasaranond as defence minister. Somchai Wongsawat will take Justice, Noppadol Pattama gets education and Surapong Suebwonglee will be health minister.

Perhaps a modification to the above.... to enable Thaksin's lawyer, his brother-in-law, AND now his cousin to all be in the People Power Party Cabinet....

General Chaisit Shinawatra

Defence portfolio eyed by Chaisit

Former Army Chief General Chaisit Shinawatra yesterday said he was ready to become defence minister in the coalition government.

Chaisit, who is Thaksin Shinawatra's cousin, has been mentioned as a candidate to assume the post, along with General Ruengroj Mahasaranond, a People Power Party deputy leader.

Chaisit told reporters he would welcome an invitation to take the job, saying he was ready to work for the country.

"Privately, I don't want to be involved with politics, because the military must be neutral. It is the duty of the party that will form the government to consider who will be proper for the post," he said.

- The Nation

[blaze]

He is facing serious charges in Thailand. He can't be extradited.

Thailand has extradition treaties with numerous countries.

They could not get him out of the UK. Do you seriously think he will return if he doesn't have a SPECIAL DEAL from PPP that he will not be jailed and not have all his money taken from him? That's ridiculous. PPP ran as a TRT THAKSIN proxy. Get the connection.

Exactly. The problem is that the PPP have been duly elected and now for all intents and purposes is the next government. With that comes a tendency (from some TV members) to condone and overlook the past injustices and wrong-doings of Thai Rak Thai and Thaksin.

The attitude is forget the past and look to the future. That's the scary thing.

They are one of the same. Time for a reality check. Whatever the assurances from some members that the military will act as a 'balance and checks' mechanism - the reality is that Thai Rak Thai is back with a vengeance in all but name - with Thaksin - by hook or crook - hanging onto it's coat tails!

They are the government elect and see themselves accountable to absolutely no one except Thaksin! The judiciary and other branches of the executive might now seem themselves as being above government interrference and independent - but they can easily be corrupted and prejudiced - just as they were during Thaksin's tenure.

First the tendency is not, I believe, to overlook the allegations against Thaksin- it's to demand that they be proved- and that they were serious enough to merit the seizure of the government by the army along with the tearing up of the constitution of the land.

The attitude to forget the past and look to the future- well- let's see how many commissions are established to investigate the illegal seizure of the government of the land next year- or will it be- ok boys we've had our little coup- now lets get back on track and bygones be bygones- till the next one.

If you believe the courts are so easily swayed- then you must also question every judicial verdict that has come down while the army was in charge of the country- particularly those verdicts which pit the army against its strongest enemy: the TRT

[sriracha john]

Speaking alongside Samak, Surapong said Thaksin was not a People Power Party member

- The Nation

On Thursday night, Mr. Noppadol, concurrently an elected MP for the People Power Party, ruled out Thaksin's involvement in the PPP and stood firm that he did not discuss the formation of a new government with the ex-premier, "otherwise the PPP will be charged with acting as a surrogate for Thaksin, or seeking an approval in Hong Kong for the Cabinet lineup."

- MCOT

======================================================================

Despite news of his brother-in-law, his lawyer, and now his cousin all potentially being in the Cabinet.... and despite any and all other indicators.... we must all remember, Thaksin has nothing to do with the People Power Party...

Edited December 28, 2007 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

But then again, when there's loose cannons on deck.... anything is possible... and maybe the PPP has NOT agreed to the 5 preconditions.... as this issue seems to flow back and forth hourly depending on who in PPP is doing the talking

Coalition conditions rile Samak

PPP executives yesterday angrily rejected the five conditions to forming a coalition government set by the Chart Thai and Puea Pandin parties, saying the conditions were an insult to them. PPP Leader Samak Sundaravej said yesterday the move by Chart Thai Leader Banharn Silpa-archa to team up with the Puea Pandin and issue conditions before forming a coalition government with the PPP showed contempt against him and his party. ''I want to tell Mr Banharn that him expressing such an opinion was tantamount to insulting me,'' Samak said. Samak also said neither he himself or any PPP executives had said they would take revenge against any political rivals, especially the military top brass. ''I don't know what is happening. I had expressed my admiration towards the army chief [Gen Anupong Paojinda] since his first days in office,'' he said, referring to a statement by Gen Anupong that the military would not stage a coup even if the PPP was in government. Meanwhile, Thaksin yesterday issued a statement to affirm his loyalty to the monarchy, swearing an oath that if his words were not true he and his family would have an unfortunate future.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.net/News/29Dec2007_news01.php

Edited December 28, 2007 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

12 more PPP candidates accused of poll fraud

The EC yesterday pressed election fraud charges against 12 prospective MPs from the People Power Party. 11 of them are elected constituency candidates and the other is a proportional candidate, said EC Secretary-General Suthiphon Thaveechaiyagarn. Besides 12 PPP candidates, the EC also charged an elected MP from the Democrat Party and a canvasser of a Chart Thai candidate who failed to win a House seat in Udon Thani. Suthiphon said the EC has summoned all of them to testify today. According to Suthiphon, the 11 PPP candidates facing EC charges include 3 who ran for MP seats in Phrae. They were accused of distributing cash and VCDs to voters. 3 other PPP candidates ran in Chiang Rai, and party-list candidate Yongyuth Tiyapairat, have been accused of distributing cash to voters. 3 PPP candidates in Udon Thani's constituency and another PPP candidate in Kalasin are also facing cash distribution charges. A PPP candidate in Buri Ram is charged with slander.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.net/News/29Dec2007_news09.php

[raybingham]

Perhaps the PPP conceded to the pre-conditions, because it seemed fairly certain that the Democrats would accept them.

Abhisit sees end to turmoil

Democrat Party Leader Abhisit Vejjajiva said yesterday the five preconditions for a coalition alliance were a good start to ending turmoil.

"I see the conditions in a positive light, as Chart Thai and Puea Pandin parties set out to make clear where they stand in resolving the country's problems," he said in reference to the two parties' pre-conditions to join the alliance formed by the People Power Party.

Abhisit said the Democrats would wait until next Friday before making its next move if the People Power Party failed to form the next government.

He said his party was ready to become the opposition. Democrat Secretary-General Suthep Thaugsuban anticipated People Power to conclude a coalition deal soon.

Negotiations could succeed because the demands were not unreasonable, he said, adding he did not expect a great number of disqualifications to drastically change the election outcome.

- The Nation

I am trying to follow all this from the UK and I am struggling with the response of the Democrats. At first I thought they were taking a watching brief, waiting for the PPP to cards to fall around their ears and step in as white knights to form the next government. This does not appear to be happening and PPPappear to be getting stronger (talking tougher) as time goes on.

Where do the Democrats stand ?

[bbkkandrew]

But then again, when there's loose cannons on deck.... anything is possible... and maybe the PPP has NOT agreed to the 5 preconditions.... as this issue seems to flow back and forth hourly depending on who in PPP is doing the talking

Coalition conditions rile Samak

PPP executives yesterday angrily rejected the five conditions to forming a coalition government set by the Chart Thai and Puea Pandin parties, saying the conditions were an insult to them. PPP Leader Samak Sundaravej said yesterday the move by Chart Thai Leader Banharn Silpa-archa to team up with the Puea Pandin and issue conditions before forming a coalition government with the PPP showed contempt against him and his party. ''I want to tell Mr Banharn that him expressing such an opinion was tantamount to insulting me,'' Samak said. Samak also said neither he himself or any PPP executives had said they would take revenge against any political rivals, especially the military top brass. ''I don't know what is happening. I had expressed my admiration towards the army chief [Gen Anupong Paojinda] since his first days in office,'' he said, referring to a statement by Gen Anupong that the military would not stage a coup even if the PPP was in government. Meanwhile, Thaksin yesterday issued a statement to affirm his loyalty to the monarchy, swearing an oath that if his words were not true he and his family would have an unfortunate future.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.net/News/29Dec2007_news01.php

Once again, you seem to be confusing yourself. In out, in out, shake it all about. Whilst you do the Hokey Kokey, all others turn around and accept the PPP aka TRT are here to stay for now and K.Squarehead will arrive at the Swampy airport with all prostrate before him.

There is a phrase for this: 'Like it or Lump it'

Or 'God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; The courage to change the things I can; And the wisdom to know the difference'

and another one: 'Get a life'

[sriracha john]

But then again, when there's loose cannons on deck.... anything is possible... and maybe the PPP has NOT agreed to the 5 preconditions.... as this issue seems to flow back and forth hourly depending on who in PPP is doing the talking

Coalition conditions rile Samak

PPP executives yesterday angrily rejected the five conditions to forming a coalition government set by the Chart Thai and Puea Pandin parties, saying the conditions were an insult to them. PPP Leader Samak Sundaravej said yesterday the move by Chart Thai Leader Banharn Silpa-archa to team up with the Puea Pandin and issue conditions before forming a coalition government with the PPP showed contempt against him and his party. ''I want to tell Mr Banharn that him expressing such an opinion was tantamount to insulting me,'' Samak said. Samak also said neither he himself or any PPP executives had said they would take revenge against any political rivals, especially the military top brass. ''I don't know what is happening. I had expressed my admiration towards the army chief [Gen Anupong Paojinda] since his first days in office,'' he said, referring to a statement by Gen Anupong that the military would not stage a coup even if the PPP was in government. Meanwhile, Thaksin yesterday issued a statement to affirm his loyalty to the monarchy, swearing an oath that if his words were not true he and his family would have an unfortunate future.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.net/News/29Dec2007_news01.php

Once again, you seem to be confusing yourself. In out, in out, shake it all about. Whilst you do the Hokey Kokey, all others turn around and accept the PPP aka TRT are here to stay for now and K.Squarehead will arrive at the Swampy airport with all prostrate before him.

There is a phrase for this: 'Like it or Lump it'

Or 'God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; The courage to change the things I can; And the wisdom to know the difference'

and another one: 'Get a life'

Amazing that you managed to suss all of THAT in the 21 minutes that you have been a member of thaivisa....

you wouldn't happen to be related to the banned bkkandrew now, would you?