Thai Logic

[gburns57au]

I once watched a guy chop down a Coconut tree with a machete....I asked why didnt he use a saw or a chainsaw....

The answer was along the lines....

He has nothing else to do today....it gives him good exercise....he has always done it that way....He already has the Machete...why does he need to buy a saw ???

All good sound logical reasons.

Thai Logic seems to based on one or more of four basics.....The traditional way, the quickest way, the easiest way and the cheapest way.

But how can anyone say that the Thais dont have logic....how many of you have been beaten at Connect 4 by some fresh from the country Bar girl....

[udon]

"Most people wont do anything unless told to do so by a superior. The problem is that to get anything done, you need to know the person at the top of the pyramid and work with them. The guy at the bottom of the pack will not do anything, as initiative is very rarely rewarded in thai society, lest it make someone higher up lose face."

Ahhh, "initiative" not a good thing where maids are concerned!

I instructed a new maid NOT to use my washing machine on any account.

Came home 2 days later to find that she had shown "initiative" by washing 2 Chinese made dark green vests along with a brand new, stone colored smuggler's vest I'd just bought and some white underwear....... yep, you guessed it, everything was green and the 80 quid vest was ruined, I'd only worn it once.

She got a rightbollocking for that, since then no more "initiative" has been shown and things have run smoothly.

[Jockstar]

Alot of Thai people cant seem to think for themselves. This starts a young age. Thai teachers cheat in exams. they tell kids the answers. Where as farang teachers want the kid to work it out for themselves. Many times my kids have been doing something simple. like drawing. 10 minutes after you have told them do whatever you want. the only rule is that they must use only shapes(example) triangles. squares, circles, hexagons etc. Draw a picture using these and other shapes to make a picture. Whatever you want. 10 minutes later. Some have'nt even started. So Ok. I do and EXAMPLE! On the board. Ok they say. 10 minutes after that. I check to see what they have done. They have only gone and copied. Think for yourself i say. I guess it is ingrained into some from a young age that they get told what to do and when they are then told. Do what you want. They are like. EMMMMM! cant think. The more they try and think the more they come up with nothing.

[marquess]

Lack of intiative is certainly a big thing. I'll never for get the lack of intiative that one continually comes across in places like Tescos and Carrefour. Alot of mindless indviduals standing around, and rarely able or willing to help anyone.

[Doctor John]

Lack of intiative is certainly a big thing. I'll never for get the lack of intiative that one continually comes across in places like Tescos and Carrefour. Alot of mindless indviduals standing around, and rarely able or willing to help anyone.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Unwilling to help?

That is one thing I have never found in Thailand.

[Gazza]

Try showing the figure of 300,000 on a piece of paper to some Thais and sometimes you'll see them counting the numerals in reverse. It's as though they're saying "Units. Tens of units. Hundreds...etc."

Whereas we just glance at a figure for a nano second and we can read what the number is.

[Doctor John]

Try showing the figure of 300,000 on a piece of paper to some Thais and sometimes you'll see them counting the numerals in reverse. It's as though they're saying "Units. Tens of units. Hundreds...etc."

Whereas we just glance at a figure for a nano second and we can read what the number is.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Its because you show it to a person that does not usually associate with such a high number, many Farangs do associate with high numbers.

Show it to a bank teller or a businessman and there will be no problem.

You can also show the same figure to some Farangs and they will also struggle.

[tayto]

2+2=Up to you{Thai logic}

[snoophound]

Thai Logic

"Whatever suits them at the time"

[Ajarn]

2+2=Up to you{Thai logic}

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

2+2=Up to you{Thai logic}= Tayto logic

[Ajarn]

Thai Logic

"Whatever suits them at the time"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Or maybe more clearly stated, 'whatever works'....?

Pragmatism is a required survival skill here. That is logic. Thai Logic, too.

[paulfr]

As a farang living in Thailand, I am embarrased and surprised at how many posters seem to not only know/understand so little about why Thais act the way they do, but also lack respect for the culture and the people.

I agree it is easy to be bewildered by the actions/behaviors of many Thais, but do any of you have a teenage daughter that behaves rationally (a near synonym for logically) in your eyes most of the time ? Thais have values driven by a history and experience much different from many of us in the West. Are they are wrong and we are right ?

I also agree that many, due to cultural experience, are not cut out for the aggressive, hard working, competitive world of international competition, but many are. And more and more are each year. Most just need a chance to be rewarded for smart, hard work.

When I do not understand my daughter's behavior or that of a Thai, I do not assume I am right and she is stupid. It is usually me who lacks some information which makes the behavior perfectly logical to her or the Thai.

My experience is that Thais are very concerned about the other person (greng jai)

And Thais can think and solve problems as well as anyone else IMHO.

My TGF solves problems for us all the time. She cannot tell you where Yugoslavia is, but she can fix a problem as well or better than me. And I have an MS in Engineering from a top tier school.

I think this whole thread is just a statement about how little Farangs understand about Thailand and it's culture. And when you do not understand, the easy way out of the embarrassment is to blame the other guy rather than find out what he/she was thinking and why ?

Cheers ..........

[Doctor John]

My experience is that Thais are very concerned about the other person (greng jai)

And Thais can think and solve problems as well as anyone else IMHO.

My TGF solves problems for us all the time. She cannot tell you where Yugoslavia is, but she can fix a problem as well or better than me. And I have an MS in Engineering from a top tier school.

I think this whole thread is just a statement about how little Farangs understand about Thailand and it's culture. And when you do not understand, the easy way out of the embarrassment is to blame the other guy rather than find out what he/she was thinking and why ?

Cheers ..........

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You got that right.

[Doctor John]

I am a Farang myself, but i am amazed that when a farang cannot understand another culture, he calls them stupid people.

Tell me something...........how do you think you would get along if you was dumped in the middle of 'The Amazonian rain forrest', how would you survive?

Do you think you would be able to do all the things that one of the Rain forrest Natives do to survive in such an enviroment, would he think you where rather stupid because you did not know how to survive without his help? You would be very grateful to that guy, you would not survive alone.

But if you met this same Rain Forrest Native in a modern city, you would call him stupid because you could not understand why he was so confused in a city enviroment. But is he stupid, or is it that you just do not understand another persons culture and psyche.

Because you do not understand another persons ways , it does not mean they are stupid, it means You do not understand.   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This says it all, in my opinion.

[B...C..]

In my four years of residency here in the los, I have been baffled by the Thai way of thinking. Can anyone define for me what Thai logic is? In the West 2+2=4 and so on. What is the reasoning here?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What is the relation in between 2+2=4 and logic?

Define what kind of logic you are talking about?

Is it a mathematical function?

I'm sure for the Thai 2+2=4 also...

But I'm sure also that in terms of "emotional logic", it is pretty different than yours.

In Asia, in general, there is a far smaller gap in between "business" and private life.

In the western world, we do business and we have our separate private life.

In Asia, we do business...

[siamruby]

This thread is very much remind me of the first time when I arrived in UK and couldn't speak very good English. I lost count how many time I was called stupid just because I couldn't understand some British accent (and they couldn't understand me) A few of my student friends also had similar experiences. One said he got a master degree in Economic but got called stupid because he couldn't speak much English! It s same to me got 2 degrees but got called stupid. I used to get upset about it but later on told myself that at least I could speak English a bit but my Thai was perfect and those people who called me stupid couldn't speak nothing in Thai!

Anyway, this sort of insulting farangs won't get in Thailand when you can't speak Thai properly. We find it endearing and respect for you to try to learn Thai and no Thai will call you stupid either, if we don't understand you

Oh and don't forget Thai logic according to the Thai proverb

Tum dai tam jai kue Thai tae= do what you want to do is the real Thai!

[Doctor John]

This thread is very much remind me of the first time when I arrived in UK and couldn't speak very good English. I lost count how many time I was called stupid just because I couldn't understand some British accent (and they couldn't understand me) A few of my student friends also had similar experiences. One said he got a master degree in Economic but got called stupid because he couldn't speak much English! It s same to me got 2 degrees but got called stupid.   I used to get upset about it but later on told myself that at least I could speak English a bit but my Thai was perfect and those people who called me stupid couldn't speak nothing in Thai!

  Anyway, this sort of insulting farangs won't get in Thailand when you can't speak Thai properly. We find it endearing and respect for you to try to learn Thai and no Thai will call you stupid either, if we don't understand you 

  Oh and don't forget Thai logic according to the Thai proverb

  Tum dai tam jai kue Thai tae= do what you want to do is the real Thai!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well said.

Farangs do tend to have a superiority complex in Thailand.

Sad really, most of the farangs in Thailand could not make it in their own country.

[Jai Dee]

What a great thread this was...

Apart from the sledging which was pretty entertaining and if you read between the lines you'll gain a little more insight

Great stuff.

I've decided to post a reply just so it can be seen in the active topics, and let give some people who have not read it an opportunity.

Enjoy!

[chaladmak]

Farangs do tend to have a superiority complex in Thailand.   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

and not only in Thailand !

personally I found this thread not very educating.

[Doctor John]

Farangs do tend to have a superiority complex in Thailand.   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

and not only in Thailand !

personally I found this thread not very educating.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just look through many topics, Thais are portrayed by the majority as always stupid and always wrong, Thai women are no good , Thai men are no good, Thai police are no good, Thai retailers are no good, Thai drivers are no good...........the list is endless......

Makes you wonder why their own Farang countries are in such a mess, Makes you wonder why over 40,000 people will die on US roads this year, makes you wonder why there will be thousands upon thousands of divorces in UK this year, makes you wonder why there are so many suicides in western countries, makes you wonder.

[chaladmak]

Doctor, you are not an american then ? and not even british?

[booma]

You ppl need to get off the personal attacks, where am I imposing MY values on the Thais when I vent on a forum?? Get off the soap box, I dont have to or need to accept anything as it is, I am a free person who can think critically and make my own judgements. Whether its in OZ, or the UK, or Thailand makes no difference.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We don't need people like you in the UK either mate.

B

[Martin]

Just seen this thread for the first time.

Thai cultureand logic puzzled me a lot, but 'faint heart never won fair lady' so I got stuck in to trying to bridge the culture gap. Now in our seventh year of the marriage, so the bridge has been adequate (though it still shakes alarmingly at times).

The best help I got was from Mont Redmond's "Wondering into Thai culture". It isn't easy reading, but I still find myself going back to it when I am puzzled, but have a memory that Mont touched on the topic somewhere.

[Gumballl]

Wow, I can't believe I just read this entire thread... where is the logic in that! I have been to Thailand many times (over 10 times over 8 years). I used to be married to an educated Thai woman. She never had a problem using the if-then-else form of logic. In fact, sometimes when we would argue, her logic would prevail.

I suspect that no matter where you travel in the world, you are going to find persons that are devoid of logic. This can probably be attributed to lack of experience, or the uncomfortableness of making an independent decision, or sheer stupidity. I have met folks from the US, UK, OZ, NZ, EU, and yes, even in Thailand, that fit somewhere in these categories. But I do not let it bring me down, nor do I equate the entire society as being such. In fact, I cherish the notion that there are, and always will be people that will live their lives out as drones, and not independent thinkers. Not everybody can be an "alpha" citizen. (read Brave New World if you haven't already).

As for the humble posters that insist 2+2=4, isn't this something that you were taught (to memorize) in school? How is this different from any other educational system? Most educational systems in the world are founded on the principles of memorizing facts, historical events, etc.

As for me, from my education background, I have learned that one should be careful to use numbers unless they are preceeded or followed by a unit of measurement. For instance, 2 meters + 2 meters does indeed equal 4 meters. But 2 apples + 2 oranges does NOT equal 4 apples, much less 4 oranges. Hence, 2+2 does not always have to equal 4. How's that for logic? Heck, I bet a Thai person could tell you that!

[toastwars]

Wow, I can't believe I just read this entire thread... where is the logic in that!   I have been to Thailand many times (over 10 times over 8 years).  I used to be married to an educated Thai woman.  She never had a problem using the if-then-else form of logic.  In fact, sometimes when we would argue, her logic would prevail.

I suspect that no matter where you travel in the world, you are going to find persons that are devoid of logic.  This can probably be attributed to lack of experience, or the uncomfortableness of making an independent decision, or sheer stupidity.  I have met folks from the US, UK, OZ, NZ, EU, and yes, even in Thailand, that fit somewhere in these categories.  But I do not let it bring me down, nor do I equate the entire society as being such.  In fact, I cherish the notion that there are, and always will be people that will live their lives out as drones, and not independent thinkers.  Not everybody can be an "alpha" citizen.  (read Brave New World if you haven't already).

As for the humble posters that insist 2+2=4, isn't this something that you were taught (to memorize) in school?  How is this different from any other educational system?  Most educational systems in the world are founded on the principles of memorizing facts, historical events, etc.

As for me, from my education background, I have learned that one should be careful to use numbers unless they are preceeded or followed by a unit of measurement.  For instance, 2 meters + 2 meters does indeed equal 4 meters.  But 2 apples + 2 oranges does NOT equal 4 apples, much less 4 oranges.  Hence, 2+2 does not always have to equal 4.  How's that for logic?  Heck, I bet a Thai person could tell you that! 

Erm.. I think they meant the 2+2=4 thing as an analagy not a thought pr ocess. That would become a litle rigid if you had 3 and 6 things to add together

[Gumballl]

Erm.. I think they meant the 2+2=4 thing as an analagy not a thought pr ocess. That would become a litle rigid if you had 3 and 6 things to add together

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I understand what the 2+2=4 was intended to imply, but I thought I would add my little educational sarcasm into the pot with the statements I wrote.

Here's a joke that a friend just sent me. Maybe this is the type of "logic" being taught at some schools in Thailand:

A teacher asked her class, "What do you want out of life?"

A little girl in the back row raised her hand and said,

"All I want out of life is four little animals".

The teacher asked, "Really and what four little animals would

that be sugar?" The little girl said, "A mink on my back, a jaguar in the

garage, a tiger in the bed and a jackass to pay for all of it."The teacher fainted.

[toastwars]

Erm.. I think they meant the 2+2=4 thing as an analagy not a thought pr ocess. That would become a litle rigid if you had 3 and 6 things to add together

I understand what the 2+2=4 was intended to imply, but I thought I would add my little educational sarcasm into the pot with the statements I wrote.

Here's a joke that a friend just sent me. Maybe this is the type of "logic" being taught at some schools in Thailand:

A teacher asked her class, "What do you want out of life?"

A little girl in the back row raised her hand and said,

"All I want out of life is four little animals".

The teacher asked, "Really and what four little animals would

that be sugar?" The little girl said, "A mink on my back, a jaguar in the

garage, a tiger in the bed and a jackass to pay for all of it."The teacher fainted.

All I want out of life is for people to get some decent material

[climbingwez]

you're all a bunch of muppets!

Youll never understand Thai logic. Ur not bloody Thai!!

Stick to the easy stuff.

[JacknDanny]

IMHO it is this childlike behaviour and associated violence which allows them to be so easily corrupted, they have no consideration for others, do not care about the people around them, and their superiority complex could be attributed to their ignorance of the outside world.

Superiority complex?

Seems like you are the one with the superiority complex, i would suggest that you cancel your next flight to Thailand, for good.

I am a Farang myself, but i am amazed that when a farang cannot understand another culture, he calls them stupid people.

Tell me something...........how do you think you would get along if you was dumped in the middle of 'The Amazonian rain forrest', how would you survive?

Do you think you would be able to do all the things that one of the Rain forrest Natives do to survive in such an enviroment, would he think you where rather stupid because you did not know how to survive without his help? You would be very grateful to that guy, you would not survive alone.

But if you met this same Rain Forrest Native in a modern city, you would call him stupid because you could not understand why he was so confused in a city enviroment. But is he stupid, or is it that you just do not understand another persons culture and psyche.

Because you do not understand another persons ways , it does not mean they are stupid, it means You do not understand.

Firstly you &lt;deleted&gt;, I never called them stupid, never surmised it either. Which basically makes your arguement just as much &lt;deleted&gt; as mine . As for survival, I would most likely survive just as well as you, maybe better, I have survival training skills amongst other things, which includes garnering support from the indigenous life.

I have also lived in LOS for 5 years, and understand this place well enough to have made something for myself in SE Asia, having dealt with thais in business, along with most other SE Asian countries. I have had to deal with the childishness first hand in and out of business, and I adapted to work it to my advantage, just because I might slag off thai logic (yes an oxymoron I know) doesnt mean I dont understand it.

You appear to love to jump in and slag off at anyone who doesnt tow the Thai rak Thai line, well you jumped into the wrong boat here mate

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey Soapdodger, I will jump in your boat. You are talking tripe!!!. If you have lived over here for 5 years then it amazes me having the attitude that you have.You most certainly do not understand Thai logic, I doubt any westerner doed, which is what I find most appealing. Thai logic is an experience in itself and never ceases to bring entertainment my way. I suggest you take it easy mate and enjoy yourself!!!!

[toastwars]

Lets be honest here, the logic is not very logical, logistical logic often creates an illogigal logjam which is logistically a logorhythm too far. logically speaking that is