Marrying A Thai In England

[Richard W]

My wife was for a while unconvinced that our marriage in Thailand was valid in England. When registering our daughter's birth (in England), I asked the registrar about the possibility of reinforcing the marriage with an English marriage. I wasn't told that it wasn't possible, merely that it would cast doubt upon the validity of the original marriage. (My wife stopped worrying when we met another couple who'd married at the same registry office.) I do remember reading that Scots law had provision for marriage when there is doubt that the couple are actually married to one another, but this was before Scots common law marriages were abolished (presuming they did actually get abolished).

I couldn't find anything else clearly relevant, but at https://wiki.familysearch.org/en/Marriage_A...gland_and_Wales I found the following on special licences under English law:

"Couples in a hurry or requiring privacy might include those where: ...

6. The parties had already married, perhaps in Scotland or overseas, and wished to clarify their status in English law."

[Desertexile]

Just a quick update - I spoke to the Superintendent registrar, the regional and her deputy - all confirmed by marriage is indeed above board and chuckled at the context of what I told them re: the questioning. I was refered to the cert, which I hadnt looked at and it says:

(under condition 4) "previously went through a civil marriage ceremony at the Register office, XXXXXX province, Thailand on xx November 2001.

The marriage was solemmnized between us, witnessed by four people and signed off by the registrar under the 1949 marriage act.

And that is:

The End.

[Desertexile]

[quote name='RAZZELL'

DE-

I don't care if you got "married" here again or not...

But when asked "current status"..."Errr, married"....didn't that raise some issues?

RAZZ

Nope, they all knew the history and of course, the Mrs wasn't in slutwear and I aint old enough to be her daddy

[RAZZELL]

and of course, the Mrs wasn't in slutwear and I aint old enough to be her daddy

Lucky you

I don't really know what that has to do with anything

RAZZ

[mark515]

I think its time to close this topic.

Now sounds like an argument.

The topic had been covered in full. No fresh info coming forward now.

Simple In Thai and UK law you can only marry once.

[RAZZELL]

I think its time to close this topic.

Now sounds like an argument.

The topic had been covered in full. No fresh info coming forward now.

Simple In Thai and UK law you can only marry once.

Agreed. DE might have well got "married" twice. But I can't for the life of me see how, or why?!

RAZZ

[Mario2008]

I doubt Desertexile married the same person, for the simple reason he was already married. Say a judge will need to make a decision about when DE got married, the Thai wedding date or the UK wedding date because of tax issues. Every judge will assume you were married on the date of your Thai wedding, not of the UK wedding. It might serve as a back-up when the Thai wedding is found to be invalid, but otherwise you got married on in Thailand.

[7by7]

We have received three different answers from professionals.

1) A registrar and a lawyer have said that a couple cannot marry in Thailand and then marry again in the UK; though they can have a second ceremony in the UK it would not be a legal marriage.

2) A registrar has said that a couple can marry in Thailand and then marry again in the UK, though it is not advisable as it could cast doubt on the validity of the marriage.

3) A registrar and her supervisor have said that a couple can marry in Thailand and then marry again in the UK without any problem, despite regulations saying that in order to marry in the UK a couple have to declare that they are not already married, because they are marrying the same person.

One thing, though, is certain. A legal Thai marriage is recognised as such in the UK and vice versa. Therefore there is no legal reason why a couple need to marry each other in both countries.

It's up to members who may wish to marry in both countries to decide what to do; having married in Thailand then find a registrar in the UK who will marry them again.

Of course, what many couples do is have a ceremonial wedding in Thailand, but not register it at an ampur, and then legally marry once in the UK. But if entering the UK for settlement this will incur extra visa/leave to remain costs.

[Desertexile]

'RAZZELL'

Lucky you

I don't really know what that has to do with anything

RAZZ

A registrar has said that a couple can marry in Thailand and then marry again in the UK, though it is not advisable as it could cast doubt on the validity of the marriage.

No 'doubt' on validity, thus means no issue!

Aaaanyway, the cert is available to view should anyone wish to - I actually met 2 posters at the Birmingham Wat today and showed them the cert!!!!!!!!! They have also been in contact with the registrar who married me and she has briefed their local registrar on their concerns. And of course, all registrars agree that the marriage act of 1949 is quite clear. They wanted to contact my local registrar for fear of 'raising concern' at their local office! 7up7 should also remind the readers that the 'lawyer' he is quoting is not a family lawyer or indeed a specialist in civil law.

I think this forum is great and I have utmost respect for guys sharing expereinces but sometimes, you just gotta appreciate that its just that, advice from layman.

Good luck guys.

DE

[RAZZELL]

No 'doubt' on validity, thus means no issue!

If you say so

RAZZ

[7by7]

DE, I do not need to see the certificate issued by your mother as I am sure it is exactly as you say it is. I am not, and never have been, saying that your second marriage did not take place exactly as you say it did. Why would you lie? What I do believe is that you mother was mistaken in her interpretation of the law.

Perhaps you could show me where in the 1949 Marriage Act it says that a couple who are already legally married can marry each other again, because I can't find it.

As I said before, we have received three different responses from professionals, one of whom is a highly qualified lawyer experienced in all aspects of civil law. It is now up to members to decide which course to follow and any further 'argument' posted by you or I would be redundant repetition.

[Desertexile]

'7by7' date='2010-04-19 13:30:59' post='3519256'

DE, I do not need to see the certificate issued by your mother

Apologies mate - I think you have taken that the wrong way, I didn't mean you. I know you don't consider it possible, I meant the other posters who do think that its possible.

What I do believe is that you mother was mistaken in her interpretation of the law.

I think there is something quite important here. I have told you that my Ma is the registrar responsible for one county in the UK, that her boss who oversaw and witnessed the marriage is responsible for multiple counties (indeed there are just five in the whole country - she is the top lass, as it were) and now I have also told you that they have contacted 2 other registrars on behalf of posters here and ALL agree that its grounded in legislation.

Yet, you, a self professed layman,

Like most posters on this forum, and similar ones, I am an amateur. The information I post is gleaned from a combination of my own personal experience, that of others that I have read about here and elsewhere,

who admits that all your knowledge is gleaned from this forum and other user experience refuses to admit that , just maybe, you do not have the knowledge, skills and training to offer a processional opinion.

Sometime the best way to maintain a well deserves reputation is just to accept that , sometimes, you are not the oracle. Otherwise, in the face of such professional experience and opinion, your refusal could just come across as barstool rumour.

Good luck posters and, Gents good meeting you yesterday. Mines a jack jumbo at the reception.

DE

PS I thought the lawyer was a 'high court lawyer'? Now he is a specialist in 'all' aspects of civil law - now that is some legal claim

Edited April 19, 2010 by Desertexile

[yeesipha]

DE

can you show us where in the marriage act 1949 that you can legally marry the same person twice without getting divorced first?

Edited April 19, 2010 by yeesipha

[paully]

One thing, though, is certain. A legal Thai marriage is recognised as such in the UK and vice versa. Therefore there is no legal reason why a couple need to marry each other in both countries.

That is undoubtedly correct. Desert's second marriage in the UK added nothing legally to his first one in Thailand. But if he and his wife enjoyed it, fair enough!

[bobrussell]

This came from Ealing Council website (births marriages and deaths faq!)

I am http://' target="_blank">already married outside of the United Kingdom. Do I need to register here?

Marriages contracted abroad do not need to be registered in the UK. If you are legally married abroad, that marriage is also valid here, just as a marriage contracted here is valid abroad.If you are a British citizen and have married abroad in a non-Commonwealth country, you may wish to register your marriage with the British Consulate in whose area of interest you were married. This is not a legal requirement, but is advantageous as a record of the marriage is then kept by the Registrar General for England and Wales and subsequent copies of the marriage can be obtained through him. You will need to telephone the British Consulate concerned to find out their procedures.

It is possible – but not advisable - for a couple married outside the UK to be married again to each other under English law. Please seek legal advice first as it may have implications on legitimacy and inheritance issues.

Sorry to put a spanner in the works - at least in Ealing (not my local authority - they had nothing to say about it!!) it appears (rather unexpectedly) that you can get married twice without being a bigamist!!

No idea why it should have legitimacy or inheritance implications unless you have a child in between or make a will - perhaps legally it is the most recent marriage that counts!!!

A post that has led to an interesting, if rather heated discussion.

The moral of the tale is move to Ealing!!!!

[7by7]

'7by7' date='2010-04-19 13:30:59' post='3519256'

DE, I do not need to see the certificate issued by your mother

Apologies mate - I think you have taken that the wrong way, I didn't mean you. I know you don't consider it possible, I meant the other posters who do think that its possible.

If you are going to reply to something I posted, kindly quote all of the relevant part.

What I said was: "DE, I do not need to see the certificate issued by your mother as I am sure it is exactly as you say it is."

PS I thought the lawyer was a 'high court lawyer'? Now he is a specialist in 'all' aspects of civil law - now that is some legal claim

Yet it is true, and with all due respect to your mother I would take his opinion of the relevant law over hers. Ask Scouse, he knows him.

Any response to my, and also Yeesipha's, question: where in the 1949 Marriage Act does it say that a couple can marry each other twice?

Interesting quote from Ealing by Bobrussell.

So, it's now two registrars who say that it's legal, but not advisable; one registrar and a lawyer saying it's not legal and only your mother and her boss saying there is no problem.

As I said before, you have (repeatedly) had you say, and I have (repeatedly) had mine, as have others. It is up to members to decide for themselves to decide who to believe and whether it is worth having two marriages; legal or not.

[RAZZELL]

When (and if) I eventually get married... Why stop at 2?

I could do with the wedding presents

RAZZ

[Desertexile]

7 - that was purely a cut and paste quote mistake but now that you raise it, does it alter the meaning, implied or otherwise?

7 - I do not know ANY lawyer who would claim to be a specialist in ALL areas of civil law and I know an awful lot of lawyers on both a proessional and personal level. Lawyers are renowned for stretching the truth but let me assure you, no lawyer would be as comical to suggest he/she is an expert of 'all' areas. I am sure Scouse knows him but if Scouse has any understanding of the legal profession and I am sure he does as he is a 'professional' then I think that perhaps he would agree. I am sure Scouse has worked with many Lawyers specialising in Immingration cases. But ALL civil law................I think now.

Q and with all due respect to your mother Q

The County's Superintendent Registrar (her specialism) and her boss (in charge of all births, deaths and marriage in multi-council of which there are only five in the country (her specialism) = with a combined experience of 50, 60 odd years

I would take his opinion of the relevant law over hers.

I would bet my bottom dollar that 'he' would not for the reasons above - though I would bet my top 50 satang that you would for the many reasons you profess above

Any response to my, and also Yeesipha's, question: where in the 1949 Marriage Act does it say that a couple can marry each other twice?

My friend - you have poopooed evrything so far because any acceptance would point to you being a wee bit wrong (in this case). I will go one step further, I will give you two phone numbers where you can call and then have said they will talk to you AND explain the legal ramifications to you. Hows that? Horses mouth and all that. So you would be calling someone who oversees all those counties and is pretty much join second (with 5 others) in the country....PM me if you would like to.

Interesting quote from Ealing by Bobrussell.

So, it's now two registrars (DE ADDED and the 2nd in command so that makes 3 professionals )who say that it's legal, but not advisable; one registrar and a lawyer saying it's not legal and only your mother and her boss saying there is no problem.

Could it be that the lawyer may bow to the superior specialism, that the one registrar grounded his/her opinion in 'Tabloid style' bullshit and that all the others may are correct

As I said before, you have (repeatedly) had you say, and I have (repeatedly) had mine, as have others.

But the thing is mate - you know better and won't accept anyone not sitting down and just accepting. 3.30 onwards

7by7 in court

[7by7]

Instead of posting silly replies and pathetic digs, how about providing the relevent part of the 1949 Marriage Act. Couldn't 'poopoo' that, could I?

The lawyer in question is as described, but don't take my word for it; ask Scouse.

[Desertexile]

When (and if) I eventually get married... Why stop at 2?

I could do with the wedding presents

RAZZ

My thoughts exactly! Vegas next...........

[Desertexile]

Instead of posting silly replies and pathetic digs, how about providing the relevent part of the 1949 Marriage Act. Couldn't 'poopoo' that, could I?

The lawyer in question is as described, but don't take my word for it; ask Scouse.

Oh come on mate, take a chill pill - the reply wasn't silly or pathetic. The only thing which was a dig was the Harry Enfield skit and ...come on, you got to admit, its bloody funny!!!

As for posting more, as I said you have poopoo'ed everything I have written - even the direct quotes of the legal marriage cert, so why would direct quotes off the marriage act be any better??? Ive gone one step further, I have paved the way for you to speak to the second in command.....doesnt get much better than that!? You'll be able to tell her ear to ear that she is wrong also

Oi Scouse, is this lawyer a specialist in EVERY aspect of ALL civil law in the UK? If so, my bro shouts over (he's an ex- barristers clerk) could he pleeeeeeeeaaase get his bitch of an exwife off his case, sue the dodgy cat that sold him a crap BMW, sort out his bankruptcy claims in the small claims court, defend his case for unfair dismissal and possible sue Thomas Cooke for sending him on a crap holiday.....being a specialist in EVERY, like hel_l, maybe he could defend 7 in court. hahah

[Ijustwannateach]

I think I better help out here by closing this- if anyone thinks it will help to continue by PM, please do continue to do so.