Uk Tourist Refused And Confused

[Duality]

right now i'm feeling too bitter and angry to think straight about what has just happened so i will keep this short and write a full account of the situation in a few days when i have spoken to my gf and read the refusal letter. she is too upset to get any sense out of her over the phone right now.

it seems she was refused because they don't believe she will come back to thailand and that i don't have enough money to support her or some tripe like that. just one thing i need to know for the time being. how long before we can apply again for a tourist visa?

for what its worth thanks to the guys on here who helped me get this far...the fights not over yet.

[chareehusbee]

right now i'm feeling too bitter and angry to think straight about what has just happened so i will keep this short and write a full account of the situation in a few days when i have spoken to my gf and read the refusal letter. she is too upset to get any sense out of her over the phone right now.

it seems she was refused because they don't believe she will come back to thailand and that i don't have enough money to support her or some tripe like that. just one thing i need to know for the time being. how long before we can apply again for a tourist visa?

Same happened to us first time. They basically said because she wasn't working or had some commitment to return to in Thailand she was a visa risk. So I suppose you can reapply any time if your gf's situation changes.

It was only after we got married that getting the visa was an option. Of course, it was then time to do a spouse visa (tho she did get a tourist beforehand). This visa business is so <deleted> stressful and frustrating, I'm near just packing up and moving to LOS and giving the Govt a big FOAD on the way past!

I feel for you man...

[johnh101]

I had the same sh1t before I got married.

Some double barrelled bitch refused and I gave her he ll when she eventually took my call.

I ended up going to the Visa shop in Naklua Road Pattaya and paid up for her to be primed up with all the answers, I am quite sure some palms were crossed with silver as well, went through no problem that time.

Phone the embassy and ask why she was refused, she will have a reference number on the letter. Tell them you are going to complain to your MP.

[Donz]

Sorry to hear mate. Keep telephone records on your telephone bill for records and try to keep details of when you both contact each other, letters etc and try again.

Dont give up and keep trying, i been threw the process before and it sux

[GU22]

it seems she was refused because they don't believe she will come back to thailand and that i don't have enough money to support her or some tripe like that.

Without knowing what the refusal notice actually says it is difficult to comment on the refusal.

just one thing i need to know for the time being. how long before we can apply again for a tourist visa?

There is nothing to stop you applying again immediately, but unless you address and deal with the issues raised in the original refusal she will only be refused again.

As she is your girlfriend not your wife then this is not a family visit and so cannot be appealed. However, it is worth writing to the ECM explaining why you feel the refusal to be unjust and asking for the decision to be reviewed.

As for visa 'shops' or agents, all they can do is advise on how to present the application. They cannot influence the decision of the ECO in any way. Many overcharge and offer poor or downright wrong advice. If you do decide to go down this route then be very careful. Find out exactly what service the agent is offering, shop around and speak to several and if possible get recommendations from previous clients. Do all this before parting with any money.

[silomfan]

It is crazy that people are being forced into marrying to get around the increasingly difficult to get visitors visa. Its true that unless you can address the concerns of the ECO (and they are easily concerned because its Government policy to make the vv harder and harder to get) you will be refused again and then have the additional problem of getting a tarnished history before you even start. People must learn that complaining here is great and you will get a lot of good advice, but if you really want the system to change then you must complain and not stop complaining to UK Visas and your local MP in the UK. MP's are often quite sympathetic , even if its only to keep/get your vote next time. To be fair , many are genuinely concerned at the high handed treatment UK citizens and their friends get from the British Embassy and are happy to take their complaints furthur.

It requires but a little effort to contact UK Visas and your MP so you must do it . And keep chasing for a reply . And if you don't like the reply , write or e-mail again . Point out how difficult it is to prove a reason to return , and thus how unfair it is to have this condition in the rules at all.

It seems to me that far too many people are willing to give up without a fight. The British Embassy in Bangkok (and around the world ) have enourmous powers and don't hesitate to use them , often with unbelievable rudeness thrown in . They do it because they can . And they know it . It will only change if enough determined people protest . The ECM will rubber stamp all but the most obviously unfair refusals so don't hold out much hope of appealing to the ECM . However you should still do it at the earliest opportunity to show that you have done all you can . Ask what they would like to see to show reason to return . They can't answer this as there is no proof of reason to return.

And then as soon as the ECM has given you the standard brush off , get straight onto your MP and UK Visas. Start inconveniencing them as they are doing to you . If you are persistant enough you will win , but you must fight for it .

SILOMFAN

Oh i forgot to say,as GU22 says, it really would help if you could post the text of the refusal notice as it may contain other concerns the ECO had and will help us understand more fully your problem

SILOMFAN

[britmaveric]

Guess we wait for part 2!!!!

[idlemeister]

Not return to Thailand from the UK, Yeah right !

You might want to ask the morons in the visa office which part of English culture she will get addicted to, the food, the weather, or the pong of the brits on the underground.

I have a better idea - move to Isaan and get your back legs in the stone age, as the resident goose of Tokyo puts it.

Enjoy life and ignore the many morons.

[Wanphen]

Hi,

It seems like applying for any visa is like russian roulette you just cannot understand it.

My sister applied did the interview and got refused for a tourist visa for the same reasons. Despite having a good job and a boyfriend and having been here to Australia before and complied with the visa conditions.

She waited a couple of weeks and applied again and got it and this time with no interview.

Just seems a lot on the person you deal with on the day and their mood.

So my advice would be not to give up all hope and try again.

Best of luck next time

Wanphen

[GU22]

Oh i forgot to say,as GU22 says, it really would help if you could post the text of the refusal notice as it may contain other concerns the ECO had and will help us understand more fully your problem.

Quite, so shall we wait for the facts before forming a judgement?

idlemeister,

There are many reasons why a Thai, or any other nationality, may wish to use a visit visa to gain entry to the UK and then disappear to work in the black economy. There are also many girls from all over the world who have been duped by their 'sponsor' into coming to the UK only to find themselves locked up in a brothel until they have worked off their 'debt.'

Before you start throwing insults like 'moron' around I suggest that you consider the bigger picture.

Of course, I am speaking generally, and none of the above is meant to imply anything untoward about Duality, the relationship he has with his girlfriend nor her application and reasons for wanting to visit the UK, which I'm sure are all genuine.

[silomfan]

Hi,

It seems like applying for any visa is like russian roulette you just cannot understand it.

My sister applied did the interview and got refused for a tourist visa for the same reasons. Despite having a good job and a boyfriend and having been here to Australia before and complied with the visa conditions.

She waited a couple of weeks and applied again and got it and this time with no interview.

Just seems a lot on the person you deal with on the day and their mood.

So my advice would be not to give up all hope and try again.

Best of luck next time

Wanphen

Which all goes to show that the system is unfair...which is what i have been saying all along .

SILOMFAN

[GU22]

Hi,

It seems like applying for any visa is like russian roulette you just cannot understand it.

My sister applied did the interview and got refused for a tourist visa for the same reasons. Despite having a good job and a boyfriend and having been here to Australia before and complied with the visa conditions.

She waited a couple of weeks and applied again and got it and this time with no interview.

Just seems a lot on the person you deal with on the day and their mood.

So my advice would be not to give up all hope and try again.

Best of luck next time

Wanphen

Which all goes to show that the system is unfair...which is what i have been saying all along .

SILOMFAN

Two things:-

1) One example does not prove anything.

2) Wanphen is talking about Australia. I have no knowledge nor experience of applying for an Australian visa, so cannot comment on the Australian system's fairness or otherwise. However, even if the Australian system is as unfair and arbitrary as Wanphen's post suggests, this does not prove anything about the UK system.

[Wanphen]

Hi Duality,

Not too sure if it's the same in the UK, But the last time we appiled for my sister we were given the opptunity to place a bond of $5,000 Aus in a bank account. Which remained there until she had returned to LOS and then and only then was the money returned to us.

As far as I understand it the reviewing officer has the discretion to ask for any amount between

$0:00 to $10,000...

Maybe ask or inquire if this is possible.....?

Of coarse you would have to make a judgement as to if you were willing to do this...

Hope this helps in some ways

Regards

Wanphen

[GU22]

The idea of the UK introducing a financial bond or guarantee by the sponsor of a visitor has come up many times on various forums. However, in order for the government to make such a bond legally enforceable would require so many changes to so many laws that parliament could do nothing else for several years! It ain't gonna happen.

Anyway, personally I feel that such a system would be totally unfair as only the well off could afford to sponsor a visitor.

[the scouser]

Such a provision already exists in law (S16 of the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999). The government had a trial run but some groups complained that the operation of S16 was inherently racist because securities were only asked of those of , generally speaking, non-caucasian ethnicity, so its wider implementation was dropped.

Scouse.

For those with a legal inclination, here's the relevant section:-

16. - (1) In such circumstances as may be specified, the Secretary of State may require security to be given, with respect to a person applying for entry clearance, before clearance is given.

(2) In such circumstances as may be specified-

(a) the Secretary of State may accept security with respect to a person who is applying for entry clearance but for whom security is not required; and

( in determining whether to give clearance, account may be taken of any security so provided.

(3) "Security" means-

(a) the deposit of a sum of money by the applicant, his agent or any other person, or

( the provision by the applicant, his agent or any other person of a financial guarantee of a specified kind,

with a view to securing that the applicant will, if given leave to enter the United Kingdom for a limited period, leave the United Kingdom at the end of that period.

(4) Immigration rules must make provision as to the circumstances in which a security provided under this section-

(a) is to be repaid, released or otherwise cancelled; or

( is to be forfeited or otherwise realised by the Secretary of State.

(5) No security provided under this section may be forfeited or otherwise realised unless the person providing it has been given an opportunity, in accordance with immigration rules, to make representations to the Secretary of State.

(6) Immigration rules may, in particular-

(a) fix the maximum amount that may be required, or accepted, by way of security provided under this section;

( specify the form and manner in which such a security is to be given or may be accepted;

© make provision, where such a security has been forfeited or otherwise realised, for the person providing it to be reimbursed in such circumstances as may be specified;

(d) make different provision for different cases or descriptions of case.

(7) "Specified" means specified by immigration rules.

(8) Any security forfeited or otherwise realised by the Secretary of State under this section must be paid into the Consolidated Fund.

[the gent]

What we call in the trade, an enabling act. It was a punt but could never fly. Nevertheless, it is there but unlikely to be used unless of course Silomfan wishes it in which case he would have to offer a bond of 50,000 GBP whereas everyone else can have a discount at 500 quid. Only joking but nice, still. Ouch.

[thai3]

right now i'm feeling too bitter and angry to think straight about what has just happened so i will keep this short and write a full account of the situation in a few days when i have spoken to my gf and read the refusal letter. she is too upset to get any sense out of her over the phone right now.

it seems she was refused because they don't believe she will come back to thailand and that i don't have enough money to support her or some tripe like that. just one thing i need to know for the time being. how long before we can apply again for a tourist visa?

for what its worth thanks to the guys on here who helped me get this far...the fights not over yet.

same happened to us and in our case being married seemed to go against us. What pissed me off was that she went first and aksed if all the documents were OK they said just need some more passport page copies, so sent them over. In the interview they ripped her documentary evidence to shreds, why not point the ones they need out the first bloody time. We got turned down for a heap of reasons. Of course bargirls seem to get visas by telling a pack of lies, if you know the ropes it's easy.

She sent me the appeal form to fill in and the grounds you wish to appeal under seem to make it almost impossible to appeal sucessfully. Were she a lying refugee on the other hand she'd be quite welcome and probably in in line for boots vouchers and a nice little flat. Come over to see your husband and you get called a liar when you have told the truth. Am I right in thinking the service at the UK embassy is a lot worse than other countries?-peter

[GU22]

Am I right in thinking the service at the UK embassy is a lot worse than other countries?-peter

No, have a read of some of the posts from our transatlantic and antipodean friends about the hassles they have and you will see that getting a UK visa is a portion of micuration by comparison.

BTW, is this 'wife' the same girl you that you posted about on a different forum. You remember, the one you said you has dumped because her family asked for sinsort?

[thai3]

Am I right in thinking the service at the UK embassy is a lot worse than other countries?-peter

No, have a read of some of the posts from our transatlantic and antipodean friends about the hassles they have and you will see that getting a UK visa is a portion of micuration by comparison.

BTW, is this 'wife' the same girl you that you posted about on a different forum. You remember, the one you said you has dumped because her family asked for sinsort?

no that was not me, or if same handle an imposter I never dumped her obviously. One before we decided against going the whole way but nothing really to do with sin sott.

[GU22]

Odd, handle "thai3" and always signed his posts "-peter."

This guy did have an unhealthy obsession with Jintara, though. He also had a habit of changing his opinions and views to suit his audience. Posted on a Pattaya forum as if he loved the place, but posted on Mango Sauce (as MR. PETER) about what a dump the place is.

Strange thing, coincidence, isn't it?

[thai3]

Odd, handle "thai3" and always signed his posts "-peter."

This guy did have an unhealthy obsession with Jintara, though. He also had a habit of changing his opinions and views to suit his audience. Posted on a Pattaya forum as if he loved the place, but posted on Mango Sauce (as MR. PETER) about what a dump the place is.

Strange thing, coincidence, isn't it?

I have never posted on pattaya forums but did on mango sauce a lot and I do think pattaya is a shithole am I on trial here or something? As you seem to have an unhealthy interest in posters love life perhaps you can provide proof of this so called postings re dumping a girl over sinsott?

Edited February 21, 2006 by thai3

[GU22]

No, not on trial.

If you say that the person who used to post on the Pattaya Bar Girls forum as "thai3" and sign his posts "-peter" is not you, then who am I to say otherwise?

[Rj 81]

Now, now girls play nice

[thai3]

No, not on trial.

If you say that the person who used to post on the Pattaya Bar Girls forum as "thai3" and sign his posts "-peter" is not you, then who am I to say otherwise?

Pattaya bar girls? never even heard of it and am proud to say I have NEVER ever posted a positive post about shitty city. What this has to do with visa advice I have no idea. If there was a poster called GU22 posting elsewhere and acting like a smartarse would that necessarily have to be you?-peter

[GU22]

Possibly.

BTW, I answered your question about British missions because after what you said about Scouse here he certainly wasn't going to.

Goodnight, Peter, good to see that you're still the same old pratt.

Edited February 21, 2006 by GU22

[silomfan]

Now, now girls play nice

GU22 does seem to be in an unusually bitchy mood today ..glad i am not the only one he is slagging off tonight !!

SILOMFAN

[GU22]

FYI, Solimfan, this particular individual is well known on many Thai related forums. Indeed, he has been banned from most of them!

[Prakanong2005]

Am I right in thinking the service at the UK embassy is a lot worse than other countries?-peter

No, have a read of some of the posts from our transatlantic and antipodean friends about the hassles they have and you will see that getting a UK visa is a portion of micuration by comparison.

BTW, is this 'wife' the same girl you that you posted about on a different forum. You remember, the one you said you has dumped because her family asked for sinsort?

LOL

I think you are referring to the girl before this one and it was not sin sot if I remember correctly (I may be completely wronmg of course and "P" from Leicester is different from the one that was banned from at least 3 boards and is in love with Jintara) but remittance home per month from UK!!!!

Its been on every board from Nanaplaza to Thai-UK I think ;-)

Edited February 22, 2006 by Prakanong2005

[Duality]

hi guys sorry this reply is a bit late i just can't seem to think straight in this damned heat. my spelling and grammar will be proof of that.

in the refusal letter it said the usual jargon of them not beliving that she will return to LOS and that she may try to find work in the uk even though she has some property and an excellent work history. come off it ! my gf said to me '' why would a thai want to stay in england a long time if they are not married?'' a valid point that is lost on these cretins at my embassy.

another couple of weak reasons regarding her saying on her application form she wanted to stay in the uk for 3 - 6 months and then at her interview she said 2 - 3 months would be fine for her first uk visit but they took this as a discrepancie and didn't know how long she intended to stay in the uk, very fair don't you think? talk about splitting hairs!

why couldn't they have told her all this back in december when she first applied?(due to work commitment she couldn't go to the second interview untill febuary) 12 hours on a bus from samui to bkk just for some crank to refuse her in less then 15 minutes. devastating for her it was.

out of interest does anybody know how many thai girls actually do not return to thailand each year from their holidays in the uk? i would be very interested to know this fact.

oh and one more reason they gave for refusing her. they said that i might claim benefits for her! how they came to this conclusion without even speaking to me i will never know. do they realise that i could only claim 55 pounds per week unemployment benefit? how in the frig could 2 people survive on that ?! i'm baffled by their thinking...

couple more points - the translation was not good at all according to my gf. when asked a question about my mother my gf gave a long and heartfelt reply about how they have bonded even over the phone and they are both looking forward to meeting one another. the translator edited her reply down to"'want to see his mum'' and thats it ! none of the emotions she expressed were faithfully translated. god knows how much was mistranslated because my gf said they had to talk through a bloody screen, she couldn't hear most of what was being actually translated to the eco.

they have done a good job of putting her off coming to the uk for good i think, not that i blame her. i have lost alot of love for my home country over this.

i hope this was coherent enough for you guys to follow. alot more i want to say on this matter but i will leave it here for the time being.

cheers.

[the scouser]

Duality,

You might wish to write a letter to the ECM in Bangkok addressing each of the reasons for refusal in turn, stating why you believe the decision to be flawed. There is no guarantee this approach will succeed, but it's worth a shot. If the ECM gives you the bum's rush, you can then write in a similar vein to UK Visas.

Cheers,

Scouse.