Taking the bar out of the girl...?

[enchanted]

Thank you for introducing me to the stories in the Danish Baker's website and the letter written by the late Dr. Smith...

I have found these accounts to be very true of Thai ladies that worked in places such as bars, massage parlours, etc..

As Derrick Sherwin has correctly coined it.."you can take the girl out of the bar, but you can never take the bar out of the girl"...there will never be another phrase as sound and true as this one if you get yourself involved with a Thai girl you knew from one of "the trade"...

As for me, I have gone virtually broke thinking that I could rescue my girlfriend from proverty and she has since returned to the body massage parlour that I first met her...

Within a mere 4 mths, I have spent my life savings and lost my dignity while being with her...brought her out of her "trade", rented an apt in Bangkok, flown in every week to be with her, spent my money to make her happy and to provide for her and her family...but all my efforts have been wasted becoz resources are limited and her spending is not...

The "House Advantage" has got me in the end...I'm back in my homeland covered with debts and she is back to the massage parlour...

All the love she professed is just another way of making you part with your money willingly...I am sure that she will soon forgets about me and start another conquest when she meets another soft-hearted man willing to give it all to be with her. I pray that her next victim will be one with unlimited resources so that he will not be like me...

Lesson learnt....if you want to settle down with a Thai lady...always start on the right foot. Find one working in a decent occupation (eg. office, etc) and has a respectable family background with good education and a sensible mindset.

If you think that you can ever settle down with a Thai girl that you knew from "the trade", beware! You are starting on the wrong foot...and that will lead you to the route of ruins...

To those as enchanted as me with Thai ladies...take my advice.

I have vowed never to go Thailand again...never to love another Thai lady...this harsh lesson in my life will cost me 10 years to recover...I hope this will never happen to any of you...

Choke Dee Khup!

[PattayaSteve]

Enchanted - The letter from the late Dr. Smith was very helpful to me.  A recent post stated "we westerners often give these girls a tip that is equal to what their fathers can earn in a week.  And it's hard work, too, cutting rice or planting rice."  

I have many friends who have successful marriages to the bar girls.   And in every case, they took the girl out of Thailand, brought her home, and let her experience the success of a Western life.  Just my thoughts.

[Brian]

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.

Douglas Adams

I wonder if Douglas Adams was ever involved with a Thai Bar Girl.... :laugh:

[Brian]

On a serious note though. Enchanted, I'm sorry for your financial loss. I know that this will jade your opinion of Thailand for quite a long time.

You have learnt the hard way, what many others have also had to learn, and many others are yet to learn, but it seems that you learnt it harder than some others.

Steve, I totally agree, if you can really get these girls out of Thailand and show them "western life" it does make a big difference.

Maybe equally successful if you can live with them in Thailand, ie like a married couple.

But as long as anyone is a tourist, visiting their GF when ever the chance arises, then I'm afraid that the relashionship is doomed to failure.

You have to realise that these girls lives revolve around the bar, thats where they spend all their time and that's where their friends are.

Simon... I hope you are taking this in...

[enchanted]

Thanks for your consolation, Brain. I am now slowly picking up all the pieces one at a time...

You are right to say that I am jaded by Thailand...just to clarify matters here, I was deeply in love with her not for the sex but rather for such a wonderful person she is. Happy, cheerful, sensitive, warmth, etc....

It's just that her lifestyle has already been moulded by her occupation and her mentally shaped by the self-survival tactics learnt while working in the massage parlor in Thailand. Tried as hard as I could to change her lifestyle and mindset, it seems that you are right that once I'm away, she reverts back to her "old" self. Spending all the money I gave her for rent, going for plastic surgery on her nose to make herself more beautiful, splurging with her friends partying and drinking, sending dosh back to her family, etc. Guess she knows that the "walking ATM" will be back soon to provide her with more resources...

I feel sad for both myself and her...my education to her did not work and I couldn't "rescue" her from going back...in the end, the massage parlour has reclaimed her back...ironically, when she called me after returning to "work", she sounded more happy than when she's alone in Bangkok....looks like she is back where she belongs...

I envy your friends for making relationships work between themselves and their Thai gfs...at least they managed to be in control of the relationships...yup, guess the only way to change them is to get them out of Thailand...I tried but she refused to move...citing reasons that she is afraid or relocating, visas problems, her family to take care, etc...

Life goes on...as for me, it will be difficult picking those pieces up...

[wolf5370]

How many times have I seen this "Rescueing" idea. To a westerner it makes sense perhaps, because women only tend to navigate to selling themselves when they see no other way out. It must be understood that it truly is a different culture. Many of the girld working here do so because they want to. Not all granted, but many do. They are not treated like lepers by their country men, generally. They earn more money than they could imagine working in a paddy somewhere. They have a life filled with fun. They find good friends...and some even like the sex! They know they can earn enough for themselves and their families to live on when they are too old for the 'game' - they know this too is only a matter of time.

Why risk all that for a guy they have only just met, that has promised them enough money to live on - food and bed - in exchange for their friends, family, lifestyle, freedom and country. Many have seen their friends and family members being abandoned by their farang b/fs; being knocked-up and left by their farang b/fs; being lead a line by their b/fs; being abused by tgheir b/fs and running home or back to work in the bar/aprlour etc because they could not cope being away from their friends/family/country/etc.

A simple way to think of it is to turn the tables. Ignore your western preconceptions of the sex industrry and think of yourself as having had nothing and no future, and then being given everything, then some guy (girl?) comes along and asks you to risk it all because he(she) is so in love with you after four days!

Anyway, why would anyone want to kill the goose that lays golden eggs - as long as their are mugs willing to send them money in return for a two line letter saying something like "I loves you forever my big man. I no butterfly." once a month!

Power up the big brain (not the little one!). If you went to a dentist and paid him for his services, you wouldn't keep sending him money each month would you. Why do you think it necessary to keep a pro on retainer, its not as if there's a shortage exactly. You can not expect to have a relationship with a girl for two weeks a year - it would not work in the west, it will not work in the east!

[sevinnow]

The other side of the coin:

I met my g/f whilst she was working a bar 4 years ago, she had only been doing it for 1 year (checked this out and confirmed it) and what attracted me to her was she was close to my age only 5 years different I am 33.  I think this is relative to many things.

She went straight from the bar back to her village to work with her parents on the land.  I vist her every 3 months and stay at the village, maybe once a year we go to the Koh Samet for a week.    She is very happy, has pride back and loves her life.

We will be married at the end of this year and I will be locating to Thailand when my house is sold for good.   In 4 years I have sent her £5000 total to maintain the standard of living she prefers, and yes I have offered to send more but she insists put it in the bank for house when we married.

So yes guys there are lessons to be learnt one is don't leave your girl in a studio apartment in Bangkok and only vist her a couple times a year.  Two meet the family and be accepted.

Three never make promises that you know you will never keep.

Four think about the age gap seriously if you want something perminent.

It worked for me, so hey it can work for you with a little care.

Sev :cool:

[simon43]

Hi Brian - I'm certainly listening to this sad story, but I don't fall into the same boat as this guy:)

I'm in my forties and have 'been around' and know the tricks.  I am not in love with the bar girl that I've discussed on the other posting.  (But she sure is cute!). And any one who knows me also knows that I'm tight with money, unless I see some rapid results!!

My sole reason for getting involved with this girl is because she seems smart enough (and keen enough), to get a more regular job/income, but currently has no means to do so.  If she is willing to help herself and work or study hard, then maybe I'm willing to help out as well.  But if she isn't bothered then it's the same for me....

Anyway - I will be in BKK this weekend so I'll see if this bargirl has been dancing in the bar, or in any of the bedrooms of guys on this forum:)

[Boo]

I have so many freinds here in LOS that have met up with bar girls & had good & bad expericences. Some have married and moved to their own country with their wives, some have stayed together here in LOS as a couple and are making it work & others have been like so many & been ripped off & broken hearted. Just remeber, all you guys looking for girlfreinds, HAVE THE SAME EXPECTATIONS AS IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY. Just because this is Thailand doesn;t mean you have to loose your brains. If you meet a girl you are serious about, take time to get to know her, even if you have to pay her bar fines everynight, that doesn't even have to mean having sex with her, but take her out to dinner, movies, drinks whatever & let her see you are a decent guy looking for a real relationship. WOLF is right, you cannot come here & expect a girl to give up a good job just for a 2 week fling with a guy she might not see again & making some kind of effort to know her family is also a really good idea. Love in the 21st century is hard but don't make it harder on yourself by having false expectations of someone who is trying to make a living, sometimes the only way she knows how.

[Brian]

A quote from James Oppenheim sums up the long distance romance.

The foolish man seeks happiness in the distance, the wise grows it under his feet.

James Oppenheim

[pschef]

You guys have said it all so well, what are our expectations of any romance. Thailand or any other country, I never expect anyone to give a true answer to that one. You can be ripped off in any currency, it only takes the will to give it up.

:cool:

[LPCustom69]

I agree with most of what has been said here. You can get burned or ripped off anywhere. Long distance romances don't work good here in the States either. It's just too damned hard to make something work when you only see her occasionally. It also seldom works when you fall head over heels and try and do something drastic after just a couple of days or weeks. It seems that the "little brain" doesn't always look at the big picture like the regular brain. As I said in another post many of my friends have been happily married to thai women for 20 - 30 years. We all met the girls of our dreams during the Vietnam war and for the most part I don't think there are too many regrets. Remember she has been lied to often and you each have to prove yourself to the other. Once bitten, twice shy. Don't give up. Good luck or chok dee!  :cool:

[cobra]

Remember she has been lied to often and you each have to prove yourself to the other.

So love conquers all ?..... statistically it doesn't prove out, better odds pulling to an inside straight ..., good luck,

[thaiflyer1]

Remember she has been lied to often and you each have to prove yourself to the other.

So love conquers all ?..... statistically it doesn't prove out, better odds pulling to an inside straight ..., good luck,

Just curious Cobra what prompted you to open a thread 3 months old? Too much time on your hands methinks.

[Boo]

Check the date again Thaiflyer, its a year & 3 months old, someone is very bored me thinks

[thaiflyer1]

Check the date again Thaiflyer, its a year & 3 months old, someone is very bored me thinks

LOL...........thats even worse!

[Axel]

Check the date again Thaiflyer, its a year & 3 months old, someone is very bored me thinks

Neither did I realize.

That's not, however, why the story sounded so familiar to me...

Sorry for everybody to whom it happens, but most said above is true.

Most of all imho, stay together and find out if you really fit. That's what you do at home and that's what you do here. Money? Just spent as much as you can afford to lose.

[elsie]

Check the date again Thaiflyer, its a year & 3 months old, someone is very bored me thinks

You know that I'm bloody bored today... but not that bored.

[kitty]

Can i just say I'm sorry for what you've gone through.

It isn't just Bar girls either the Bar Boys (not the sexual barboys,even though they do chuck it about)are just as bad,maybe worse!

[Speedy]

Can i just say I'm sorry for what you've gone through.

It isn't just Bar girls either the Bar Boys (not the sexual barboys,even though they do chuck it about)are just as bad,maybe worse!

yeah, depends. follo your intuition. and when it sounds too good to be true, it probably is too good to be true.

good luck to everyone

[Yohan]

Money? Just spent as much as you can afford to lose.

Axel, openly said, this is not so easy.

And I do not think, this is a good advice.

How much can you afford to lose? Any advice...??

It is different, if you are living somewhere in Asia as a foreign man not so young anymore, or if you are living in Europe or USA outside of towns and you are a young man and you do not have any experience at all, or even never had any connections with women at all.

What should such a man really do?

If he has money and he does not want to pay, he is called a cheap Charly, greedy a$$ and so on - if he pays, he is again for a while the only wonderful man for this girl, and that continues, often over years, and finally when he cannot pay anymore, he is the leftover and outsider - so he borrows money from somewhere...cannot pay back....and so on...

Why? Because he likes her, loves her....

Somewhat similar like gambling....you think, you can win, you try it out until you are totally finished....

My advice: Do not pay for a girl at all -

Look for a girl, who has a nice job, who has her own money....

No money from you.... and still she comes with you beside doing her own job, then you should consider about a deeper relationship.

The problem is, that this all takes time....a lot of time....

To meet a bar-girl works out much faster....

A young man in Europe or especially in the USA, who has to work, cannot come to Asia for a long time, he has only some weeks holidays per year....

During holidays such young men are spending all their savings, then back to work, sending some money to the girl, then vacation again, meeting again, paying again....

It might work - some bar-girls are honest and appreciate such a young man, who offers all his savings for her love -

But the risk, that it might not work out is very very high....how to you know what the girl is really thinking about you? What is she doing, when she is not with you?

[Bulldog]

I met a girl in my mates bar, it was a very quiet bar in an unfashionable place she could not speak any English , had no Mobile Phone, no gold, no good clothes, no tattoos, no smoking , no drinking, had been there 4 days and was very shy. I helped her out a bit , I paid the bar and told her to go home and go to sleep. Gave her 200 Baht to get some food, and said I would be back tomorrow.

18 Months later i am still with her.

But I speak Thai, and I live in Thailand. I must say that if a girl has English slang, Gold, mobile Phone, and bad manners, i think she is beyond me, and I never bother.

But i know guys that are happy with girls that worked in some of the notorious bars in pattaya, so you can't generalise. My advise to people who do not want to meet bargirls is this...... Stay out of the Bars! It don't take much of a brain to work that out.

[Axel]

Money? Just spent as much as you can afford to lose.

Axel, openly said, this is not so easy.

And I do not think, this is a good advice.

How much can you afford to lose? Any advice...??

Yohan, your comparison is valid but as well for gambling, addiction to something, whatever.

How much can you afford to lose? The reply is like Einstein, everything is relative.

A customer of mine felt so sorry for one girl, he sent her to Europe to study language, visa, no problem. Money, Euro 2000 p.m. I told him, you are beyond crazyness. He said, you are right, I earned my money I have it and I spend it.

If this money is gone, who cares?

Another one, close to what you say would have to borrow to keep her 'lifestyle' up.

Any advice to a new comer from the boon docks (no offense) would fall on closed ears. "Mine is different, we talked about."

So the only thing I can adv. keep your brain open, if (or when) the money question comes. Actually, the buffalo is dead for long time, even 10,000 miles from here they heard about. The approach is more subtile. "Darling, I have a big problem, made some stupid mistake, can you borrow me XXXX amount, I pay you back". She will pay back.

Next time a bit more, perhaps some tax problem, legal, I have no space in here to show it all. Ask your favorite mama-san what she advices to the girls.

The final hit comes much later. Biggest possible amount in psychological judgement, than no repayment.

In this context guys, I know you are deep in love, she is different, she is an angel, she never worked in a bar, (OK cashier in a pub) if (when) the money question comes, create a penile disfunction by redirecting the bloodflow to your brain. It can be done. THINK, if the amount talked about is reasonable. Can it be possible she has to pay back xxxx Baht, does it stand in relation to her lifestyle? Can her monthly rent, where she is in arears just now, really be Baht xxx?

If you give the amount and she cannot pay back, does it hurt you?

If no, give it to her and consider it as a gift.

If yes, don't give it. Offer a small amount for her to survive.

Ah, it is difficult, I know she will never come back to you if you don't pay now. She still loves you but has to run away from the debt collectors.

Yohan is right of course, look for the nice girl. A friend of mine said it well. "In daytime I see so many, where are they at night when I am lonely and off duty?"

Many girls are nice, BG or not, but still use your brain. Don't lent more than you can willingly write off.

What else is there to say? Perhaps one thing, go out together for dinner. If she is happy with the Baht xxx Tom Yung soup, it is ok, if she wants an X-star restaurant

with a five course dinner, pay for it only if you are convinced she eats every day like this and, more important, If YOU do every day.

[cobra]

Just  curious  Cobra  what  prompted  you  to  open  a  thread  3  months  old?  Too  much  time  on  your  hands  methinks. 

Thanks for being observant Flyer, maybe I thought there was some life left in it, maybe it spoke to me, ...

nah, your right, just bored ....

[Darlek]

girls from decent occupations can be just as problematical as BG types.

once they have a farang at their disposal .

they are just as capable as cleaning you out as a BG.

[davethailand]

excellent point darlek and exactly right, in my opinion sometimes even more so.

[Begs]

Can you take the bar out of the Farang?...............Absolutely not!

[sonthaya]

I'll have to disagree with some of the posters, I'm married to an ex BG, we have now been married for 11 years, and I'll say 11 good years.

This proves you can take the bar out of the girl, they are not all the same, they are human beings with feelings like us all.

[Khun Larry]

Lesson learnt....if you want to settle down with a Thai lady...always start on the right foot. Find one working in a decent occupation (eg. office, etc) and has a respectable family background with good education and a sensible mindset.

Sounds like lesson #2 is in your future.....

[rod_kalashnikov]