Annoying On-line Booking Sites

[think_too_mut]

I have been trying to book (for October, rock-bottom low season) in several different hotes (1000-1500B range) through several online sites just to get response from each and every of them that the hotel I wanted is "fully booked".

And some alternative suggested (unknown or unwanted places, like Jomtien Welcome wreck that is 1km walk to the beach).

What is annoying is:

After going through their site and entering details, guest names, address....after a few hours "fully booked" response comes.

Looks like they are all stumbling in the dark with no idea what is available.

Why don't they cross out hotels where booking is not possible?

I think it's been all sold to the agencies and may be sitting empty but hotels and on-lines have no idea nor access to that info.

Now, the most annoying ones (including the sponsor) are those that require payment details, CC number etc - just to tell you "fully booked".

Expecting that to happen, why would I proceed with booking and give my CC number to someone's site I will never ever revisit?Of course I cancelled any "further steps" as soon as I saw it.

Don't they notice it is hurting their business, there must be many like me who got put off.

[technocracy]

Try booking hotels in Singapore through them - utter waste of time! I was after a decent hotel in Singapore US$200ish per night acceptable. . . went through nearly all over them! FULLY BOOKED, BOOKED, bastard BOOKED!

I've had this several times when booking rooms in Singapore. So much for 'save time and use the internet to book' I spent about 2 bastard days attempting to find a hotel!

So in short . .. . agree with everything!

Edited October 4, 2007 by technocracy

[think_too_mut]

For one hotel, 6 sites said that rooms are fully booked.

Hotel (directly) said plenty of rooms but 1750B instead of 1200B online sites offer. For 7 days it's a significant difference.

Trying one more before I give up.

[londonthai]

if calling hotel ask them for a special rate, explaining that's low season and you are staying for a minimum 7 nights. Some hotels do have weekly rates - but you have to ask.

also trying to make a booking in thai (ask your girlfriend/friend for a help) would give you a cheaper rate.

myself I just always walk in in the area I am interested in - that gives me flexibility when travelling

[think_too_mut]

if calling hotel ask them for a special rate, explaining that's low season and you are staying for a minimum 7 nights. Some hotels do have weekly rates - but you have to ask.

also trying to make a booking in thai (ask your girlfriend/friend for a help) would give you a cheaper rate.

myself I just always walk in in the area I am interested in - that gives me flexibility when travelling

I did not call the hotel. Their "[email protected]".

They asked, i don't know why, if the guests are Thai nationals (they all are).

[wileycoyote]

My gripe is airline booking sites,when the connection is slow.

It doesn't take your details,pauses,you re-enter ,pauses,states you have entered details twice ,but not let you page back & have to start all over again !

Wiley Coyote

[IMA_FARANG]

I have been trying to book (for October, rock-bottom low season) in several different hotes (1000-1500B range) through several online sites just to get response from each and every of them that the hotel I wanted is "fully booked".

And some alternative suggested (unknown or unwanted places, like Jomtien Welcome wreck that is 1km walk to the beach).

What is annoying is:

After going through their site and entering details, guest names, address....after a few hours "fully booked" response comes.

Looks like they are all stumbling in the dark with no idea what is available.

Why don't they cross out hotels where booking is not possible?

I think it's been all sold to the agencies and may be sitting empty but hotels and on-lines have no idea nor access to that info.

Now, the most annoying ones (including the sponsor) are those that require payment details, CC number etc - just to tell you "fully booked".

Expecting that to happen, why would I proceed with booking and give my CC number to someone's site I will never ever revisit?Of course I cancelled any "further steps" as soon as I saw it.

Don't they notice it is hurting their business, there must be many like me who got put off.

Not exactly on the same topic.......but I have a particular dislike for GULF AIR and it's on-line site booking thru Bahrain. I am here in Greece, and I wish to go to Bangkok. I happen to know that business class via Gulf Air is nearly 600 Euro (return trip) cheaper than Thai international. For some reason the Gulf Air site insists that no Athens to Bangkok flight is possible. It shows a Athens to Bahrain flight. It also shows a Bahrain to Bangkok flight possible. It however insists that it is impossible to go from Athens to Bangkok via Bahrain. I can book Athens to Bahrain, and I can book Bahrain to Bangkok, but it will not let me book Athens thru Baharain to Bangkok. It insists that no connection is available. Yet is patently there in the schedule, with a overnight layover in Bahrain. The same problem occcurs in the opposite direction, it allows a flight from Bangkok to Bahrain, and a next day flight from Bahrain to Athens(with a long layover in Bahrain), but it will not allow booking Bangkok to Athens via Bahrain. All I get is the message, "Booking on that route is not allowed via this location. Contact your local travel agent for futher information."

What's up GULF AIR?

[londonthai]

whatever it is with their software - call them directly or do it throgh any travel agent. They will sort the problem out

[Shah Jahan]

first i use one of the booking sites to find the hotels

or i look at a consolidated booking site like Hotels Combined to compare prices across the booking sites

Then I goto the website of the hotel in question and see if they have any special rates - and if so book direct

then I try to call the hotel and book

if that fails then I will book online

[Florin]

I've also had some truly annoying experiences lately with online booking sites...they tease you with much lower prices than the hotel's website, than give you that "fully booked" BS...after a recent trip to Hanoi was nearly ruined by this, I will stick to booking through the actual hotel sites in the future.

[PattayaParent]

My pet hate is with the airline/agents sites that offer a good deal and then when you put in the dates you want you get the 'not available' message but they NEVER tell you what dates ARE available at that price.

Had good luck with one of the hotel booking websites recently though, booked 2 different hotels, 2 weeks apart and got the first choice hotels I wanted both times so no complaints there from me.

[Scalawag]

My pet hate is with the airline/agents sites that offer a good deal and then when you put in the dates you want you get the 'not available' message but they NEVER tell you what dates ARE available at that price.

Had good luck with one of the hotel booking websites recently though, booked 2 different hotels, 2 weeks apart and got the first choice hotels I wanted both times so no complaints there from me.

For booking hotels, I've had good luck and service with Directrooms. com.................

[jts-khorat]

if calling hotel ask them for a special rate, explaining that's low season and you are staying for a minimum 7 nights. Some hotels do have weekly rates - but you have to ask.

also trying to make a booking in thai (ask your girlfriend/friend for a help) would give you a cheaper rate.

myself I just always walk in in the area I am interested in - that gives me flexibility when travelling

I did not call the hotel. Their "[email protected]".

They asked, i don't know why, if the guests are Thai nationals (they all are).

Many hotels in Thailand have quite xenophobic booking procedures and Thais might be quite surprised to see that in action in the opposite direction: many hotels actually have worse rates for Thais (true for many hotels in Pattaya), and then different rates for different nationality groups.

Many of the big booking portals are actually sensitive enough not to disclose this as they would loose visitors immediately; but if your group does not fit the profile that the hotels will allow it is sometimes not possible at all to find a room anywhere near published rates.

None of the big hotel wholesalers in Thailand does offer direct availability information as the hotels here are technically not able to offer it or then play little tricks and games with daily/hourly rates that fluctuate.

Many hotels keep a large amount of rooms for themselves and do not allow them to be released through the internet as soon as high season approaches. end of October is NOT the deep poijt of the low season, you will be hard-pressed to find a decent hotel room easily here on Phuket by then.

Their little dirty game, as they do know that they save on the commission on walk-in and make more money. Easy for them to say the hotel is half empty, they are cutting their own distributors and then overcharge you by not actually letting you have the savings they enjoyed with this move.

Therefore both price and availability will have to be checked manually every single instance if you should not run the really big risk to come into an overbooking situation, so automation is near impossible.

Knowing all this, maybe the hotels do not get out of this picture as squeaky-clean and innocent as it seems, as they are creating much of this mess out of greed and with little consideration for service or return guests (they will be full anyway next year again...).

[NedKelly]

In response to Think too mutt's initial comments........the online bookings sites that are dedicated to just hotel rooms are at the wrong end of the business....that is, the Hotels dont like them. Why......well when they first started up they got best rates from local agencies that had hotel contracts and then they uploaded these with their mark up and actually undercut everyone.....! The hotel had no control over it because there was no contract with the online site. So, hotels (not all of them) will often say on their contracts that sale to online bookings sites is not allowed. How would they know......well when Joe Bloggs checks in with his 'special friend' the reception ask where they booked and Joe Bloggs says...Oh....'NedKellysHotel rooms.com' of course'

then the hotel records all this info and when the management find out that Joe Bloggs x 250 people has been booking in this fashion and turning up with a voucher form the local agent.......the sh-t hits the fan....! The hotels says to the agent...hey u gave our rates to an online booking site! Agents says yes....hotels says...sorry no more contract.

Hotels have contracts with local agents, overseas agents and possibly some online sites where the rates would be higher than traditional methods of distribution.....this is how their business works so if someone tries to buck the system by being cheeky......they're not happy.

Cheers !

[onethailand]

Working on it, guys - would love to hear all your comments, suggestions, etc... I am doing this for the exact same reasons you are complaining about...

BTW, hotels don't "hate" online sites... just that some of them do not adhere to the agreements they made with the hotels in the first place... I have contracts with over 1K hotels in Thailand at the moment.

Edited October 5, 2007 by onethailand

[stevenjm]

Wow! I could make a fortune out you guys on commission. Why do you use online booking sites? The best way is to find local agent and give them a call or visit them directly - Its the cheapest way with no hassles and thats a fact. Its also cheaper than walkin rates at hotel or even hotel "special price".

[londonthai]

the thing is that the local agent usually has the upmarket hotels, because that way makes more money. They might not have the budget hotels so just walking in and asking for a weekly rate will save money

[andy1308]

I had a challenge trying to use a Thai travel agent to book a hotel room in New York. It appears there's no way for Thai agents to get instant availability, or at least the dozen or so we tried couldn't offer it.

[stevenjm]

When I say local agent I mean local at destination not origin. Especially in Los and SE Asia They are much cheaper and have budget and upwards - use the locals though and not western ones as the locals command less profit and are cheaper. I personally know a few of them that make only $4 commision per room and even less on budgets.

Agreed though at extreme budget end its cheaper for walkin rate. With the others though they get the same discount deal as online sites and less because often their the volume producers for the hotel and generally charge less and are less hassle as there in the area and have direct conact with the hotels. And if you have any problem they are physically there for you as opposed to sorting out internet drama.

Edited October 5, 2007 by stevenjm

[think_too_mut]

Wow! I could make a fortune out you guys on commission. Why do you use online booking sites? The best way is to find local agent and give them a call or visit them directly - Its the cheapest way with no hassles and thats a fact. Its also cheaper than walkin rates at hotel or even hotel "special price".

I did. Called a BKK agent that I have used many times before. They also said the same thing.

Hotel, direct, said 1750 baht for something that is 1200B on the net.

My agent said 1950B.

They all said - the prices on the net are for foreigners only. For Thai nationals they are much higher.

Double pricing, reversed?

One explanation was - foreigners get a cheaper room but spend money around. Thais bring food and drinks from home or from the street and spend nothing.

[onethailand]

Now that I'm back from my trip, I will explain a bit more.

Some hotels charge less for Thais. Some hotels charge more for Thais. The same goes for Japanese, Indians, Middle East, Asians, Russians, Europeans, UK and Commonwealth... these are just some of the "groupings" I have come across in the 1000+ contracts I have seen and signed.

Every hotel has various reasons for different rates. But it should be fairly obvious that if a Thai has to pay more, it's because the hotels have had worse experience with Thais - and if a Thai has to pay less, it's probably because the hotel's main business is the Thai market. And again, same for the other groupings, though in some cases I believe that the hoteliers are simply trying to make as much as they can.

That being said - going to an agent in Thailand, for the most part, is NOT the cheapest way - because they typically deal through third parties - however it still will be much cheaper than going to the hotel directly. Sometimes, however, the hotel decides it wants to undercut the contracts that it offered to agents - resulting in some very strange problems like the one above - and I can assure you that these hotels will soon be begging for business again unless they know how to reach 90% occupancy on their own efforts.

For the most part, however, if you want the cheapest rates, you should look online with Thai-based sites (don't waste your time finding a deal in Phuket on Expedia or Last minute, though), or else find an agent which holds their own contracts with hotels. Especially do not book Thai hotels with sites in countries which have high tax rates (ie. the UK) because you will be throwing away 17.5% extra for no good reason.

The problem with online is, most booking sites only have contracts which allow them to book ON REQUEST. In this way the hotel doesn't have to grant an allotment of rooms to Tom, Dick and Harry Travel and then discover that Tom, Dick and Harry Travel only have a couple of customers a day. This is the same way I have to start out - we cannot expect the hotel to block rooms on our behalf without proving that we will drive customers to them.

That being said - a year from now it may well be that hotels are begging to give us allotment for instant confirmation - on the other hand, they might not even give us an ON REQUEST contract

By the way, what I say here applies only to Thailand, as I do not currently enter contracts with hotels in other countries.

Now - when you look at the online prices of various sites, you have to read between the lines. Sometimes a room includes breakfast, sometimes it does not. Sometimes taxes and service charges are included, sometimes they are not. And sometimes they only list the lowest price for the entire YEAR, which might only be available during low season, rather than listing the lowest price for the CURRENT season.

I am an inveterate price monger. I check prices on 5-6 sites, including the hotel itself, before I book. My sheer frustration with this process is what led me to become an agent myself. And since then I have gone through even more frustration dealing with hotels who don't seem to have a clue what they are doing, not to mention that there does NOT seems to be a standard which most hotels follow.

However, after two long and frustrating years, I'm finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel (I hope). I refused to put the site up in the interim because I wasn't satisfied with it, and if I am not satisfied how can I expect visitors to be satisfied? (btw the site is not the one in my signature so don't bother to check LOL). Site is still not live yet as there is a lot of linkage and testing still being done - then design - but it's not far off.

Anyhow, if you have the time to wait, on request will always get you the best rates, but don't expect much luck trying to book for X'mas or New Year's. If your need is for instant confirmation, that can be had (and will be available on my site) for a limited number of hotels, but usually at slightly higher prices than the on request method.

As a seasoned traveller and web surfer, I can tell you that your best bet is ALWAYS to book your hotel as early as possible.

Edited October 5, 2007 by onethailand

[stevenjm]

Now that I'm back from my trip, I will explain a bit more.

Some hotels charge less for Thais. Some hotels charge more for Thais. The same goes for Japanese, Indians, Middle East, Asians, Russians, Europeans, UK and Commonwealth... these are just some of the "groupings" I have come across in the 1000+ contracts I have seen and signed.

Every hotel has various reasons for different rates. But it should be fairly obvious that if a Thai has to pay more, it's because the hotels have had worse experience with Thais - and if a Thai has to pay less, it's probably because the hotel's main business is the Thai market. And again, same for the other groupings, though in some cases I believe that the hoteliers are simply trying to make as much as they can.

That being said - going to an agent in Thailand, for the most part, is NOT the cheapest way - because they typically deal through third parties - however it still will be much cheaper than going to the hotel directly. Sometimes, however, the hotel decides it wants to undercut the contracts that it offered to agents - resulting in some very strange problems like the one above - and I can assure you that these hotels will soon be begging for business again unless they know how to reach 90% occupancy on their own efforts.

For the most part, however, if you want the cheapest rates, you should look online with Thai-based sites (don't waste your time finding a deal in Phuket on Expedia or Last minute, though), or else find an agent which holds their own contracts with hotels. Especially do not book Thai hotels with sites in countries which have high tax rates (ie. the UK) because you will be throwing away 17.5% extra for no good reason.

The problem with online is, most booking sites only have contracts which allow them to book ON REQUEST. In this way the hotel doesn't have to grant an allotment of rooms to Tom, Dick and Harry Travel and then discover that Tom, Dick and Harry Travel only have a couple of customers a day. This is the same way I have to start out - we cannot expect the hotel to block rooms on our behalf without proving that we will drive customers to them.

That being said - a year from now it may well be that hotels are begging to give us allotment for instant confirmation - on the other hand, they might not even give us an ON REQUEST contract

By the way, what I say here applies only to Thailand, as I do not currently enter contracts with hotels in other countries.

Now - when you look at the online prices of various sites, you have to read between the lines. Sometimes a room includes breakfast, sometimes it does not. Sometimes taxes and service charges are included, sometimes they are not. And sometimes they only list the lowest price for the entire YEAR, which might only be available during low season, rather than listing the lowest price for the CURRENT season.

I am an inveterate price monger. I check prices on 5-6 sites, including the hotel itself, before I book. My sheer frustration with this process is what led me to become an agent myself. And since then I have gone through even more frustration dealing with hotels who don't seem to have a clue what they are doing, not to mention that there does NOT seems to be a standard which most hotels follow.

However, after two long and frustrating years, I'm finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel (I hope). I refused to put the site up in the interim because I wasn't satisfied with it, and if I am not satisfied how can I expect visitors to be satisfied? (btw the site is not the one in my signature so don't bother to check LOL). Site is still not live yet as there is a lot of linkage and testing still being done - then design - but it's not far off.

Anyhow, if you have the time to wait, on request will always get you the best rates, but don't expect much luck trying to book for X'mas or New Year's. If your need is for instant confirmation, that can be had (and will be available on my site) for a limited number of hotels, but usually at slightly higher prices than the on request method.

As a seasoned traveller and web surfer, I can tell you that your best bet is ALWAYS to book your hotel as early as possible.

I agree with your post and its good to see your being honest about it and sure, there are a lot of people who like to book online because of the convenience factor and ease of comparison and that won't change.

However its been my experience that going through a local agent is cheaper. When I say local agent I am not talking about international travel agencies I am talking about the smaller accommodation and local tour agencies that are run by locals. They are generally happy with a smaller commission than western owned online sites and can often negotiate a better deal because they are in the area, supply a lot of business and have local knowledge and contacts.

[peter991]

Having lived out of a suitcase for more years than I care to mention, before I think about booking, I take the time to read reviews of hotels in the area I am looking for accommodation. It's surprising how brutally honest hotel guests can be.

While some comments can be taken with a 'grain of salt,' as guests are too picky - if I read several negative comments, that particular hotel gets crossed off my list of possible places to stay.

Peter

[think_too_mut]

Having lived out of a suitcase for more years than I care to mention, before I think about booking, I take the time to read reviews of hotels in the area I am looking for accommodation. It's surprising how brutally honest hotel guests can be.

When living out of suitcase, I never care about agencies or hotel reviews - the hotels are Sheraton, Hilton, Marriott.

It's when not living out of suitcase that I am price aware and have to sift trough booking web sites.

[onethailand]

I agree with your post and its good to see your being honest about it and sure, there are a lot of people who like to book online because of the convenience factor and ease of comparison and that won't change.

However its been my experience that going through a local agent is cheaper. When I say local agent I am not talking about international travel agencies I am talking about the smaller accommodation and local tour agencies that are run by locals. They are generally happy with a smaller commission than western owned online sites and can often negotiate a better deal because they are in the area, supply a lot of business and have local knowledge and contacts.

I think you missed my point. Most local travel agents do not have contracts with hotels - they simply call up a third party wholesaler - this means two middle parties must make money. "Western" online sites like Expedia or Last Minute have huge overheads so of course they won't be cheaper. But "Thai" online sites generally don't have this problem - and if they hold their own contracts with hotels (as I do) it would be very tough for a local agent as described above to compete.

In theory, I am a "local agent". But in actuality, I am a "local agent" who does not have to deal through middlemen.

Having lived out of a suitcase for more years than I care to mention, before I think about booking, I take the time to read reviews of hotels in the area I am looking for accommodation. It's surprising how brutally honest hotel guests can be.

While some comments can be taken with a 'grain of salt,' as guests are too picky - if I read several negative comments, that particular hotel gets crossed off my list of possible places to stay.

Exactly the way I travel too. I want to point out that at the beginning I am not going to have a large database of reviews... but ultimately that is what I want as well.

Sadly, even after reading many reviews, I sometimes end up at a highly-rated hotel only to be disappointed. Therefore, there is a high likelihood that I will be sending out "mystery travellers" to the hotels in my database to ensure that I can get an unbiased review as well. I'm still working on the mechanics of this but I think most of the hotels in the database will agree to this - otherwise they will simply be removed.

When living out of suitcase, I never care about agencies or hotel reviews - the hotels are Sheraton, Hilton, Marriott.

It's when not living out of suitcase that I am price aware and have to sift trough booking web sites.

Somewhat true... LOL... but not all companies allow their employees to book into the usual chain hotels. Instead they may put the employees on a budget... which necessitates that the employee find their own accommodation as cheap as possible so that they can use the remainder as per diem...

Thanks all for the input - keep it coming.

Edited October 6, 2007 by onethailand

[think_too_mut]

When living out of suitcase, I never care about agencies or hotel reviews - the hotels are Sheraton, Hilton, Marriott.

It's when not living out of suitcase that I am price aware and have to sift trough booking web sites.

Somewhat true... LOL... but not all companies allow their employees to book into the usual chain hotels. Instead they may put the employees on a budget... which necessitates that the employee find their own accommodation as cheap as possible so that they can use the remainder as per diem...

Thanks all for the input - keep it coming.

There is a company (preferred) hotel in every place where business is conducted. American Express negotiated the prices, they do the booking and no way an employee can stay with friends or at a cheaper hotel and pocket the money.

The hotels happen to be mostly 5* but with Amex purchasing and negotiating power the price is half or less the rack price.

If I needed a place to stay, I would go to company hotel even on private - in BKK they are Conrad and JW Marriott - and pay 70US$. Rack price is double or triple that. No agency would give me that price.

[Naam]

I can book Bahrain to Bangkok, but it will not let me book Athens thru Baharain to Bangkok. It insists that no connection is available. Yet is patently there in the schedule, with a overnight layover in Bahrain. The same problem occcurs in the opposite direction, it allows a flight from Bangkok to Bahrain, and a next day flight from Bahrain to Athens(with a long layover in Bahrain), but it will not allow booking Bangkok to Athens via Bahrain.

i think it's because an old IATA rule is still applicable, i.e. the airline has to pay for a hotel if the lay-over is 8 hours or longer.

[tartempion]

TTM, try thaihotelsdiscount.com, bookings are not online but I never had a problem with Tim and his employees, takes a few hours for bookings to be confirmed.

Cheers from Chumpon.

[onethailand]

There is a company (preferred) hotel in every place where business is conducted. American Express negotiated the prices, they do the booking and no way an employee can stay with friends or at a cheaper hotel and pocket the money.

The hotels happen to be mostly 5* but with Amex purchasing and negotiating power the price is half or less the rack price.

If I needed a place to stay, I would go to company hotel even on private - in BKK they are Conrad and JW Marriott - and pay 70US$. Rack price is double or triple that. No agency would give me that price.

As I said, it depends on the company you work for

The company I work for does not set any standards, so not only do we not have contract hotels in every city, we also are not restricted to certain budgets - meaning the employee has to use his/her own judgment. But we don't pocket the difference as we are given additional per diem.

And like I said, some other companies give you a fixed amount per day, and you are expected to use that for all expenses including accommodation.

Personally, I'd rather be in your boat! But as for your comment "no agency" can give you the same price, I would not be so certain, although in certain instances as yours, you could be right.

[onethailand]

By the way, Amex itself also runs a travel agency - and you are completely right, it is able to negotiate super rates because it also has to guarantee a minimum number of room nights per year. This could be negotiated with an individual hotel in a chain, or it can be negotiated on a worldwide basis.

In our case, we don't have to guarantee a minimum number of room nights (although we can and will with certain hotels in the future, particularly in business cities like Bangkok) - thus it is not reasonable to assume that we can offer the same rates. Nevertheless, we can offer rates which are far better than most other methods.

The second point is that what you are talking about is essentially business/corporate travel, while what agents and online sites have are considered FIT - fully independent travellers. I can tell you that business travel is generally quoted at a higher rate - thus, if I were to go and guarantee 200 room nights per year, as opposed to your company guaranteeing 200 room nights per year, most likely I would get the better rates. But there are many instances in which a corporate contract rate can be better than an FIT rate.