Visa Success! - But With A (small) Catch

[dee_jai_maak_maak]

Firstly, a big thank you to all of the contributors on this forum, especially the Scouser for his peerless knowledge and patience.

My gf went to see the British embassy in Bangkok on Monday and was granted a tourist visa to visit me in the UK. To say I am happy is an understatement. Now I really am dee jai maak maak! Without the help provided on this forum I very much doubt the outcome would have been so favourable.

But just to show what an ungrateful sod I am , I'd like to fire yet more questions at you, if I may. The gf has been granted a visa for two months. There is also a note in her passport that stipulates that she has stated that she "will not extend". I am trying to get a transcript of the exact wording, so for now these are the only details I have.

She intends to visit the UK for 2 weeks with her sister and my mate. Does the note in her passport indicate that she cannot extend this length of stay, or does it mean that she cannot extend the 2-month visa limit?

We have no intention to extend her visit at this time, but it'd be good to know what our options are. And we want to do everything by the book, so that future visa applications are as close to a formality as possible.

Cheers,

djmm

[the scouser]

Djmm,

Congratulations on your g/f getting her visa. Please can you provide an address to which I can send my invoice .

It sounds as if your g/f has had to sign an undertaking that she won't stay in the UK longer than stated at interview. They normally do this when they are not totally happy with the applicant but can't think of a good enough reason to refuse the application.

Normally the visa allows a visit of 6 months so I'm a little surprised that it appears to have only a 2-month validity. Anyway, your g/f can legitimately stay in the UK for as long as the visa is valid irrespective of whether she has signed a declaration saying that she'll remain for a shorther period. If the visa is valid for only 2 months your g/f could extend this once in the UK to the maximum of 6. Basically such declarations are uneforceable in law. However, should your g/f not abide by her undertaking she will find it more difficult to get a subsequent visa. The embassy would want to know why she said she'd stay only 2 weeks but remained for longer. If she sticks to her promise a repeat visit visa will be a proverbial piece of cake.

Cheers,

Scouse.

[LaoPo]

Firstly, a big thank you to all of the contributors on this forum, especially the Scouser for his peerless knowledge and patience. 

My gf went to see the British embassy in Bangkok on Monday and was granted a tourist visa to visit me in the UK.  To say I am happy is an understatement. Now I really am dee jai maak maak!        Without the help provided on this forum I very much doubt the outcome would have been so favourable.

But just to show what an ungrateful sod I am , I'd like to fire yet more questions at you, if I may. The gf has been granted a visa for two months. There is also a note in her passport that stipulates that she has stated that she "will not extend". I am trying to get a transcript of the exact wording, so for now these are the only details I have.

She intends to visit the UK for 2 weeks with her sister and my mate.  Does the note in her passport indicate that she cannot extend this length of stay, or does it mean that she cannot extend the 2-month visa limit?

We have no intention to extend her visit at this time, but it'd be good to know what our options are. And we want to do everything by the book, so that future visa applications are as close to a formality as possible.

Cheers,

djmm

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Congratulations!

I consider you a lucky man...why?

Well, your country (UK) will me more and more difficult with Visa in the coming years, as it is my country already (The Netherlands) and I know...

Last year it took me 6 weeks before a touristvisa for my Lady was granted (from China).

The average time for a semi-permanent stay-visa, before granted, is 3 months!! (for a visa up to 6 months); after that you have to apply, and do all paperwork again, for another year-visa, and that takes another 3 months or longer...).

And: many, many visa are NOT granted; also they require a minimum salary for the so-called referee of Euro 1.385.--/month on a year's contract. So: no work, no girlfriend/boy...

The Dutch Government is extremely strict and many touristvisa (and other kind of visas) from so-called NON-WESTERN countries are not granted because of fear that the 'tourist' will go underground and thus becomes 'illegal'.

The same will happen in the UK !!

Why, do you think there is such an enormous 'trade' in smuggling people into the UK? It's a Multi-million-Pound business.

I would suggest that your gf does NOT extend the Visa she's been granted (2 weeks). If she does you can bet she will have 'a note', leaving the country and never will be allowed in again.

Good Luck

LaoPo

[dee_jai_maak_maak]

Djmm,

Congratulations on your g/f getting her visa. Please can you provide an address to which I can send my invoice  .

It sounds as if your g/f has had to sign an undertaking that she won't stay in the UK longer than stated at interview. They normally do this when they are not totally happy with the applicant but can't think of a good enough reason to refuse the application.

Normally the visa allows a visit of 6 months so I'm a little surprised that it appears to have only a 2-month validity. Anyway, your g/f can legitimately stay in the UK for as long as the visa is valid irrespective of whether she has signed a declaration saying that she'll remain for a shorther period. If the visa is valid for only 2 months your g/f could extend this once in the UK to the maximum of 6. Basically such declarations are uneforceable in law. However, should your g/f not abide by her undertaking she will find it more difficult to get a subsequent visa. The embassy would want to know why she said she'd stay only 2 weeks but remained for longer. If she sticks to her promise a repeat visit visa will be a proverbial piece of cake.

Cheers,

Scouse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Scouse,

The cheque's in the post!!

It would appear that the gf has signed an undertaking to stay for 2 weeks only. That's not a problem. But why issue a 2-month visa? Is the visa valid from today (when her passport was returned to her)?

Cheers,

djmm

[the scouser]

Yes, the validity clock will start ticking from the day the visa is issued unless your g/f has asked for it to be post-dated.

Scouse.

[jayenram]

Djmm,

Normally the visa allows a visit of 6 months so I'm a little surprised that it appears to have only a 2-month validity. Anyway, your g/f can legitimately stay in the UK for as long as the visa is valid irrespective of whether she has signed a declaration saying that she'll remain for a shorther period.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is the first (and probably the last) time I would disagree with the scouse. His information is usually spot on.

The validity of the visa is different to the length of time she can legitimately stay in the U.K. I, also, have not previously been aware of a visitors visa being issued with a validity of only 2 months.

The "standard" U.K. visitor's visa is valid from the date of issue until 6 months later. The visitor may enter the U.K. anytime within said 6 months and will be granted a legitimate stay of 180 days from the date of entry.

Just out of interest, we flew back out of Manchester and there wasn't an immigration officer to be seen. I actually asked security to direct me to immigration as I wanted an exit stamp on the FG's passport. "There may be one around somewhere" I was told. Figure it!

[Digger]

Djmm,

Normally the visa allows a visit of 6 months so I'm a little surprised that it appears to have only a 2-month validity. Anyway, your g/f can legitimately stay in the UK for as long as the visa is valid irrespective of whether she has signed a declaration saying that she'll remain for a shorther period.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is the first (and probably the last) time I would disagree with the scouse. His information is usually spot on.

The validity of the visa is different to the length of time she can legitimately stay in the U.K. I, also, have not previously been aware of a visitors visa being issued with a validity of only 2 months.

The "standard" U.K. visitor's visa is valid from the date of issue until 6 months later. The visitor may enter the U.K. anytime within said 6 months and will be granted a legitimate stay of 180 days from the date of entry.

Just out of interest, we flew back out of Manchester and there wasn't an immigration officer to be seen. I actually asked security to direct me to immigration as I wanted an exit stamp on the FG's passport. "There may be one around somewhere" I was told. Figure it!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There have not been immigration officers at exit points for years. If I am not mistaken a parliamentry question to the then Home secretary got confirmation that, well, basically Britain has no idea how many people are in the country illegally because whilst they count them in, they do not count them out.

Similar situation happended to me a couple of years ago. Thai GF has had many multiple entry visitor visa's over the years (we live and work in Thailand), but one trip followed another for some reason by about 6 months and the immigration officer at LHR started going through her passport, which is chock full of visas, stamps, concertina extension papers etc trying to ensure she was not "back to backing' her stays in the UK - whats the problem I said. "just checking that your friend has not just left the UK after her last visit and then is coming straight back" - I said last time we were here was 6 months ago and for about 6 days, not 6 months. Clearly this immigration officer was on a mission 'saying how they can tell" through various unspecified means (oh yes I thought but kept stum), in the end out of annoyance I just showed her the re-entry stamp back into Thailand 7 days after we had left the last time and the TG flight number corresponding to the one we had just got off. "well thats OK then, have a nice stay in England". One thing I did notice is that she actually swiped my passport through the machine which never normally happens. Perhaps they want to track me as well !!!!

[the scouser]

The "standard" U.K. visitor's visa is valid from the date of issue until 6 months later. The visitor may enter the U.K. anytime within said 6 months and will be granted a legitimate stay of 180 days from the date of entry.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jayenram,

The rules changed about 5 years ago. Now the visa contains the leave to enter which commences on the day the visa is issued unless the applicant requests it to be post-dated. Here's the relevant paragraph from the immigration rules:-

25A. An entry clearance which satisfies the requirements set out in article 3 of the Immigration (Leave to Enter and Remain) Order 2000 will have effect as leave to enter the United Kingdom. The requirements are that the entry clearance must specify the purpose for which the holder wishes to enter the United Kingdom and should be endorsed with the conditions to which it is subject or wish a statement that it has effect as indefinite leave to enter the United Kingdom. The holder of such an entry clearance will not require leave to enter on arrival in the United Kingdom and, for the purposes of these Rules, will be treated as a person who has arrived in the United Kingdom with leave to enter the United Kingdom which is in force but which was given to him before his arrival.

That must be worth a Chang or two?

Scouse.

[GU22]

Just to clarify about the undertaking to return. I had occassion to query exactly what this means with the embassy last year, and the relevant points from their reply are:-

1) The visa is only valid for the length of time as stated in the letter. Although legally once in the UK you can stay for the duration of the visa, doing so would look bad for future applications. It would be highly unlikely you would be issued another visa because of the lack of trust.

2) If the letter of undertaking is abided by this will be very positive for future applications.

3) Upon the next application the letter will be removed from the passport and entry / exit stamps will be checked to make sure the applicant has not overstayed.

4) A letter of undertaking to return is only issued when there is some doubt in the eco's mind as to the application even when all the evidence gives no reason for doubt. (In my case the application was for my step-son, who is at university in Bangkok. Reading between the lines the eco may have felt that once in the UK with his mum he might want to stay.)

[dee_jai_maak_maak]

Just to clarify about the undertaking to return. I had occassion to query exactly what this means with the embassy last year, and the relevant points from their reply are:-

1) The visa is only valid for the length of time as stated in the letter. Although legally once in the UK you can stay for the duration of the visa, doing so would look bad for future applications. It would be highly unlikely you would be issued another visa because of the lack of trust.

2) If the letter of undertaking is abided by this will be very positive for future applications.

3) Upon the next application the letter will be removed from the passport and entry / exit stamps will be checked to make sure the applicant has not overstayed.

4) A letter of undertaking to return is only issued when there is some doubt in the eco's mind as to the application even when all the evidence gives no reason for doubt. (In my case the application was for my step-son, who is at university in Bangkok. Reading between the lines the eco may have felt that once in the UK with his mum he might want to stay.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks, GU22,

That confirms my suspicions. I will be making sure we play by the rules due to the second point highlighted in your post.

And thanks to the other posters for their feedback re the time frame for the visa's validity.

LaoPo, Yes I do feel a lucky man. Cheers.

Cheers,

djmm

[jayenram]

25A. An entry clearance which satisfies the requirements set out in article 3 of the Immigration (Leave to Enter and Remain) Order 2000 will have effect as leave to enter the United Kingdom. The requirements are that the entry clearance must specify the purpose for which the holder wishes to enter the United Kingdom and should be endorsed with the conditions to which it is subject or wish a statement that it has effect as indefinite leave to enter the United Kingdom. The holder of such an entry clearance will not require leave to enter on arrival in the United Kingdom and, for the purposes of these Rules, will be treated as a person who has arrived in the United Kingdom with leave to enter the United Kingdom which is in force but which was given to him before his arrival.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, now that's been cleared up!

I lay down corrected. I guess!

[dee_jai_maak_maak]

Normally the visa allows a visit of 6 months so I'm a little surprised that it appears to have only a 2-month validity. Anyway, your g/f can legitimately stay in the UK for as long as the visa is valid irrespective of whether she has signed a declaration saying that she'll remain for a shorther period.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have a little more info to add to this:

My mate (who lives in Thailand, and is seeing my gf's sister) has taken a look at my gf's passport, and he tells me this:

"She has signed an undertaking, which is attached to her passport and

invalidates her visa if not present, to say that she will be out of the

country by 1 May ie 2 months from 1 March, which is when it [the visa] starts."

So, still bearing in mind that I don't want to jeopardise future visa applications, have my options changed? Can she stay for 2 months or only 2 weeks?

I'm still leaning towards 2 weeks, just to be safe. Her sister signed a similar undertaking to the one described above when she visited the UK last year, and abided by the restrictions. Her latest visa application proved to be a simple formality and she was granted the full 6 months.

Cheers,

djmm

[the scouser]

Hi djmm,

In order to safeguard future applications your g/f should return at anytime within the 2 months. Subsequent applications should then be a doddle.

Cheers,

Scouse.

[dee_jai_maak_maak]

Hi djmm,

In order to safeguard future applications your g/f should return at anytime within the 2 months. Subsequent applications should then be a doddle.

Cheers,

Scouse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

On the subject of future applications, is there a restriction concerning when they can be made?

For example, if the gf returned home at the end of March, when could she apply for a visa to come to the UK again? I'd like her to see that the UK does have some decent weather during the year (it usually lasts for about 2 weeks, in August! )

How often is a visitor allowed to visit the UK?

Cheers,

djmm

[the scouser]

Hi djmm,

There is nothing to prevent an applicant from applying for another visa as soon as they return home. However, if the visa officer believes that the person is effectively living, or intends to live, in the UK on visit visas then the application will be refused. Basically, it amounts to what constitutes a reasonable gap between visits. If your g/f stays here for 2 weeks now then I can't foresee her having any difficulty getting another visa for August.

Cheers,

Scouse.

[GU22]

Ray Keen (who is not an ECO, but seems to be the person at the embassy who answers queries) said in reply to an e-mail that a second visit visa is unlikely to be issued if it means the applicant spending more than 6 months out of 12 in the UK.

The way he phrased his reply would indicate that this "rule" is open to interpretation, and depends on individual circumstances.

djmm, you made a very important point when you said "Her sister signed a similar undertaking to the one described above when she visited the UK last year, and abided by the restrictions. Her latest visa application proved to be a simple formality and she was granted the full 6 months."

This also proved to be the case with my step-son.

1st application refused; insufficient reason to return.

2nd application granted, but with an undertaking to return, which he abided by.

Subsequent applications, full 6 months granted, with no interview, i.e. a formality.

Play by their rules, and you will get what you want, eventually.

Edited February 23, 2005 by GU22

[dee_jai_maak_maak]

Play by their rules, and you will get what you want, eventually.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Absolutley agree. However, it's hard to figure out what "the rules" are sometimes.

That's why this forum has proved a god-send.

[timtickles]

Just wondered how difficult the process REALLY was and how long it took as I am doing the same thing soon? Was it really as difficult as some make out? Were you with g/f when she applied like I will be?

Thanks

[GU22]

The process is simple, and, if all the criteria are met, can be quick.

The ECO will want to be sure of 3 main things:-

1) Is the reason for the visit genuine, i.e. as a genuine visitor/tourist.

2) Can the applicant/sponsor fund the visit without recourse to public funds.

3) Will the applicant return to Thailand, or at least leave the UK, when, or before, the visa expires.

My step-son applied last summer, and, because we made sure that all the necessary documents were included with the initial application and because those documents satisfied the ECO that the criteria were met, the visa was issued the same day without him being interviewed.

If you do not supply the documents with the application then they will want to interview her, current waiting times are about 2 weeks for a visit visa interview.

To download an application form, and the official guidance notes:-

British Embassy, Bangkok; Guidance - Visitors (INF 2)

For some excellent advice on how to prepare, including what documents to include:-

Bringing a visitor or fiancé to the UK, FAQs and Tips.

Any thing you're not sure about, feel free to ask.

One point, accompanying her is a good idea, as you can offer moral support etc., but it is her application, it is her they will want to interview. You will not be allowed into the interview room, unless the ECO needs to speak to you to clarify some factual point.

Edited March 2, 2005 by GU22

[the scouser]

Yes, the process of applying for a visit visa is straightforward enough but not necessarily the qualification. The immigration rules state that the applicant has to satisfy the visa/immigration officer that they intend to leave the UK at the end of their stay and the ease with which this can be achieved depends upon the individual's circumstances and, to a lesser extent, those of the sponsor, should there be one. No two people's are the same and therefore a direct comparison between different applications is not really possible; i.e. it can't be said that because so-and-so's g/f got her visa then mine will too.

Preparation is the key to a successful application and ensuring that the applicant possesses the correct supporting paperwork is essential, although this, per se, does not obviate the need to be interviewed; this will be determined by such factors as the applicant's job and whether they have previously travelled to Europe/Australia/US etc.

Best of luck,

Scouse.

[GU22]

Preparation is the key to a successful application and ensuring that the applicant possesses the correct supporting paperwork is essential, although this, per se, does not obviate the need to be interviewed;

Agree completely. However, would just like to add that if the documents satisfy the ECO, then the visa may be issued after a few questions at the counter, or no interview at all. I know of many cases where this has happened, even with settlement applications.

However, as Scouser says, individual cases can only be taken as an example of what might happen, as every case has different circumstances.

[dee_jai_maak_maak]

Just wondered how difficult the process REALLY was and how long it took as I am doing the same thing soon? Was it really as difficult as some make out? Were you with g/f when she applied like I will be?

Thanks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

tintickles,

Since my gf got the visa OK to visit the UK I have been trying to get info out of her about the actual process that occurred. It would appear all didn't go exactly as expected.

She applied with her sister, who has visited the UK before. As such we believed that her sister would have no problem getting another visa, and perhaps my gf (applying for the first time) would be judged more favourably because she would be travelling with her sis.

The chain of events apparently went something like this:

Gf and sis presented applications and documentation at the British Embassy in Bangkok (I had Fedex'd a dossier of documents in evidence of my relationship with the gf, and to prove that I could sponsor her visit to the UK).

After a little while, they were interviewed that same day. Gf's sister gets the OK after a couple of minutes. No surprise there.

The sis leaves the interview and they continue to interview my gf. They question her about our relationship; why she wants to visit the UK; my work and family, etc.

Then they tell her that because she has only known me since November 04, we have had insufficient contact, and so the application is refused. [This is patently wrong. I have known my gf over a year, and had supplied evidence of this. I had also noted this fact in my covering letter.]

My mate, who is living with my gf's sister, had accompanied them to the embassy He decided that the reason for refusal was a mistake, and decided to try to intervene. They politely told him to go away. Nevertheless, he persisted, and waited around. After a while they agreed to see him.

He expained my relationship with my gf, in particular the fact we had known each other since just after thw 2003 Rugby World Cup. At this point, the ECO reconsidered her decision and awarded my gf a two-month visa.

I can only assume that, because they had processed my gf and her sis's applications so quickly (for which we are grateful ), they didn't get round to noting all the facts of the case . When my mate intervened they must have realised that something was amiss, and re-examined the documents. Everything he told them was borne out by the paperwork I had provided.

This is a happy ending to a worrying episode. If my mate hadn't been there to intervene, my gf wouldn't be coming to Blighty (which, judging by the current weather, she might not thank him for! ). And I supplied a heck of a lot of info in evidence, which no one apparently bothered to consider in full.

I'm not sure what use this info is to future applicants because the circumstances of my gf's application (ie. applying with her sister) seem quite unusual. Nevertheless, I would suggest you follow all the advice given on this forum. There are some very knowledgeable people on here, and I would not have even known where to have started without them.

I have decided to take a charitable view of events because, as I said above, the application was processed very quickly. But in doing so, maybe the odd corner was cut, which is unfortunate. Hopefully the ECOs learned a little from what is hopefully a rare ( ) error.

Cheers,

djmm