mazeltov

...

i would say there was a little bit scare mongering intended, caculated, to create fear, public dissonance.<br />anyway, still the question why the Interior Ministry deploys 'volunteers' to 'monitor' the situation? isn't it safer to have officials for such a job, like police men in uniform instead of 'volunteers'? bonus question: assuming these 'volunteers' wearing coloured shirts, what colour could it be? kinda Stasi like, informer and agents infiltrate the reds. does that work out in accordance with the rule of law? ministry of truth?

Intelligence gathering is not against the law in any major democracy. And while the immense majority of reds rank and file are peaceful farmers i believe , some characters (arispan f.e) are quite dangerous and can cause violence . The purpose of those infiltrators would be to warn the governement and preempt this from happening for the good of everyone .

As for the governement trying to infect the crowd with H1N1 or whatever by sending infected spies its really far fetched .

nobody said that there was a plan to infect the people at the rally.

but its possible that there was a certain intention behind how the public was informed about that H1N1 patient. where are the dudes that lecture us all the time about falsely shouting fire in a crowded theatre.

civil liberties protect me from the state, limit the power of governments how they can interfere in my private life, i have my rights and my freedoms. of course anybody can go to a rally and have a look at the people. or undercover police can do their observations, but the "major democracies" have therefor laws, restriction what is allowed for an investigation officer and what would be unconstitutional to do.

the government provide a service for the citizen 'doing good equally for everyone'. its officers have signed a contract, authorities should be accountable.

this legal certainty is weaken if the Interior Ministry deploys "volunteers". there i see a problem.

if volunteers are used to regulate the traffic or similar functions should be okay, anything else not.

the ministry could declare itself not responsible if something went wrong with the "volunteers", hence the "volunteers". what is the actual purpose of these "volunteers"? 'create' 'evidence'?

like someelse said here, i am sure that there isn't only distrust between the rally organizers and the security officials but that they also work together and that they maybe also allow plain (red) clothes officers to blend in and provide the job to delivery security.

intelligence gathering is something else, 'monitor' the situation? monitor until what degree? here can it become quickly unconstitutional in a 'major democracy'.

That whole H1N1 argument is a stretch of the imagination.

So the other English Language newspaper made up the story and so did all the Thai newspapers who ran it. In which case we will now see the Health Minister sueing all those papers who have called him a liar!

Grow up!

I don't think he's denying the fact that a "government volunteer" had H1N1.

But your suggestions that it was all a government conspiracy to spread panic was a bit of a stretch.

As you said, he came from an area that has some H1N1 infections.

Your assumption that everyone is health checked before they go to the protests means that you have more faith in this government than I gave you credit for.

Ch 11: Reporter contracts 2009 influenza while posted at the red shirt rally; Health Ministry+BMA warns public of potential outbreak TAN_Network

Red leaders r still in denial mode but health officials confirmed that the man found with swine flu had participated in the rally. The Nation twit tulsathit

BANGKOK, March 22 (TNA) – One Red Shirt demonstrator and one news reporter contracted Influenza A(H1N1) while Thailand records one more flu-related death in past week, according to Public Health Ministry weekly report.

Public Health Minister Jurin Laksanavisit reported two new infections at the Red Shirt rally site, one of the demonstrators, a 40-year-old man from Phetchaburi province and a journalist, both of whom remain hospitalised ... the BMA health authorities were instructed to coordinate with the Red Shirt leaders to ask for medical checkup of about 800 demonstrators at the protest venue ...Meanwhile, one more death was reported in the southern province of Pattani, raising the country’s death toll to 219, Mr Jurin said. MCOT

BREAKINGNEWS

Man who catches flu is Interior Ministry volunteer, not protester: BMA

The man who is receiving treatment at the BMA General Hospital is a volunteer of the Interior Ministry, not a red-shirt protester, a Bangkok Metropolitan Administration deputy governor said Monday.

Malinee Suvejworakit, a deputy BMA governor, told a press conference that the man is not a protester as earlier announced by the Public Health Minister Jurin Laksanawisit.

She said it has yet to be established as to whether the man got the A(H1N1) flu from his home province of Phetchaburi or from the rally site when he was deployed to help security officials to monitor the situation.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Man-w...r-30125282.html

i would say there was a little bit scare mongering intended, caculated, to create fear, public dissonance.

anyway, still the question why the Interior Ministry deploys 'volunteers' to 'monitor' the situation? isn't it safer to have officials for such a job, like police men in uniform instead of 'volunteers'?

bonus question: assuming these 'volunteers' wearing coloured shirts, what colour could it be? kinda Stasi like, informer and agents infiltrate the reds. does that work out in accordance with the rule of law? ministry of truth?

Kind of lost me with the

up against some plough pushers from up North

snobbery.

Veera is from Songkhla and was an outstanding opposition spokesman when he was in the Democrat (Abhisit's) party. Jatuporn is from Surat Thani and last I heard, both of these provinces are in the south. I am not sure about Dr Weng as he is relatively new on the scene.

Anyway the bar has been raised for uninformed newbie drivel but, watch out, there is plenty of competition out there.

I have nothing against Abhisit, he is a nice boy but I doubt if his elitist background will ever win many votes outside Bangkok. If we discount the 2006 coup, there is also nothing very unusual or illegal about how he came to be PM of a coalition government. If Thailand is to become a "failed third world state" as some posters claim, he is probably uniquely qualified to lead us forward. After all, he was born and raised in another one and knows what can go wrong.

In some ways yes, but without a functioning rail network that can efficiently handle containerised shipments, the best option at the moment is to be near the sea ports.

I can't overstate how much the lack of good rail links effects Thai business. It is time for policies that enable companies to set themselves around the provincial cities to drag some of the labour back from Bangkok and the Eastern seaboard and provide better employment opportunities in the provincial areas. There are of course industries in the provincial areas, but their reliance on road for virtually all of their transport needs is also a major factor so a better train network has to be part of this policy, which is something apparently that the Dems have in the pipeline.

A decent rail network would also go a long way to reducing population pressure on Bangkok. There is no real reason why 20 years from now, towns that are two hours drive away couldn't be part of the commuter belt for Bangkok. 10 or 12 hours from up country versus a 4 or 5 hour drive is a pitiful comparison in terms of rail speed. At the moment there is no really practical way of getting to Bangkok from 2 hours away other than driving.

are you missing the good old mega-project? big investment plans to develop the infrastructure. bring the sexy lady globalisation to the provinces? concepts of decentralisation, away from the central power bangkok?

you sound like the enemy of the state number one.

Why on earth did the Reds go on TV with this guy? He has been educated at one of the best universities in the world, where they debate daily at a very high level and is up against some plough pushers from up North.

You have cremated yourselves reds because you just cannot match this guy. You should have kept your arguments to the street if you wanted any success. Very bad move in my opinion. By the way Jatupurrn you just received another SMS.

Cheers Rick

555

Abhisit got some SMS too, made them part if his high lvl debate.

"THE NATION: "Wanna read sms people sent 2 me? They said they won't vote for me if I dissolve House under pressure from just one group," PM said." TVF Updates

No more tears left to cry, & gave away my red denim dress yesterday, I feel ashamed to wear any clothes of this colour in future. It will always be a mark of stupidity & violence.It was bad enough when it was associated with Ch.Mao.

Loads of good stuff in here Mazeltov wonder if jd is still in the same opinion regarding the dictatorship bit

the whole thread is a little bit disturbed by the airport and PAD story and not really focused on the main issue - an army general suggests a house dissolution.

anyway, i am sure the board communtity can enjoy such a memory refresh.

i know it is not todays news, but not dangerous misleading, more a small stumbling block in you way of thought that keeps the mind awake and attentive.

I've got a soft spot for true believers and I always had Weng pegged as such and not a Thaksin shill. That makes his intransigence on a 15 day dissolution in the face of a reasonable offer for early elections all the more baffling to me.

he is not a politican, but a true citizen. he challenges the power-hungry system. not bad. such activists are always a little bit odd. 'true believer' is the false word for charachters like him. 'true believers are group thinkers, authoritarian. he don't follow prophets.

from his point of view Abhisit lost any credit during the 2006/07 Junta days, guess Weng was patient long time enough. there is no compromise, no deal with the military. he is resolute - 'There is no way of living a false life correctly.' (Adorno).

1976, 1992, shaped his life. from there comes his stance against the coup and soldiers in the city.

Dr. Weng in interview

http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/580

I'm still appreciative that the red shirts haven't had direct confrontations recently with the yellows. Is it because the reds are restrained or because they can't muster enough folks to counter the yellows?

It's also mucho appreciarlo that the police and military haven't responded heavy-handedly. bravo!

I think the PAD are shooting themselves in the foot with this latest tactic and the reds know this . reds seem happy to sit back and watch them bleed.

PAD public approval is at an all time low .

I doubt that really. You are assuming that each member of the publics opinion matters in the same way. It doesn't work that way. They may win or lose whatever that means to them, but I don't think it will be based on public opinion polls.

you are right, public opinion polls are overrated.

Edited to add: If the dems go through with this and the reds accept it, Abhisit is taking a huge electoral gamble as a percentager of his voters wont like it and the dems could really underperform in the election. NPP will target the dems on this and split their vote to punish them.

yep, Abhisit got that goodbye SMS already.

"THE NATION: "Wanna read sms people sent 2 me? They said they won't vote for me if I dissolve House under pressure from just one group," PM said." TVF Updates

anyway, do you really think that could have a huge impact? the NPP will be there in 9 month and in 2 years too.

maybe the Dems could win new voters, more from the share of the moderate people in the middle.

and don't forget the Dems aren't the only party in this government.

You know I'm not sure why all these red shirts are screaming foul over the ISA. After all, their beloved father Thaksin was the one who created the ISA law in the first place. Oh, how delicious the irony is...

That is not true. The ISA is the brainchild of the junta.

My apologies, I meant the State of Emergency decree. The one that allows soldiers to actively intervene in dispersing protesters. This was the one that Thaksin enacted way back in 2006 to deal with the PAD.

you mean that one?

don't assume all anti-coup activists are pro-thaksin.

I commend the government for allowing this circus to continue. I wouldn't think many other countries would allow this to go on for so long?

How many governments do you know who violently crack down on a peaceful protest? Oh wait: China, Burma, North Korea, Zimbabwe.. right, quite as lot actually, but none that Thailand would aspire to imitate. The Ukrainian Orange Revolution, while probably not really a revolution, took quite a while too.

violent crack down on mass protests in North Korea?

Academics call for house dissolution

BANGKOK, 29 March 2010 (NNT) – More than 155 Thai and foreign academics and 90 other independent scholars have submitted an open letter to the government demanding a House dissolution within three months to end the ongoing political tension.

A group of academics on Sunday afternoon gathered at the 14 October Monument to read out the declaration. They also asked both the government and the United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) to urgently negotiate to end the conflict in peace.

Dr Yukti Mukdawijitra, a lecturer from the Sociology and Anthropology Faculty of Thammasat University, led the academics to a press conference, stating their concern that use of violence in dispersing the crowd would be inevitable if the situation was left unsolved.

The academics demanded that Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva dissolve the House within three months without perceiving such action as a defeat. They stressed that House dissolution would return power to people to decide when the country could not move forward.

On the other hand, the academics noted that the UDD should not force the government to dissolve the House immediately, but shoud give the government more time to solve and conduct some urgent policies. Then, all sides should draw up criteria allowing all political parties to equally launch election campaigns.

The academics also asked political and non-political parties to accept the election result allowing the new government to fully administer the country without any effort from outside Parliament to change the course. They claimed that the suggestions were made following continuous discussion on politics after the 19 September coup d’état.

Among the notable academics joining in the petition are former Thammasat University President Charnvit Kasetsiri, Prof Dr Nithi Aewsriwongs, Law Prof Worachet Pakeerut from Thammasat University, and independent academic Sirote Klampaiboon.

Meanwhile, UDD core leader Jatuporn Prompan suggested all related sides sign a ratification to dissolve the House to end the political impasse. He said all parties must also accept the decision of the public from the election result and not make any movement after that.

Mr Jatuporn stated that the three main groups, including, 1) the blue-shirted Bhumjaithai Party, 2) the yellow-shirted New Politics and Democrat Parties, and 3) the red-shirted Puea Thai Party should talk and jointly draw up the ratification. He added that the military could also take part to help end the conflict.

-- NNT 29 March 2010

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

http://thainews.prd.go.th/en/news.php?id=255303290036

They KNEW the evidence against PPP and they KNEW that the PPP party execs would be banned. Their hubris kept them from calling new elections using the PTP banner. Blame the ones at fault and not the ones that are cleaning up the mess.

do you know the evidence?

can you give us a small recap?

Yes it would be interesting to hear

Yongyuth Tiyapairat, at the time the deputy PPP leader, was video taped handing out bags with 100k baht in them to several village chiefs brought to a meeting in Bangkok.

He was convicted in July 2008, but the PPP was able to delay the dissolution for several months while they formed a new party and at the same time, attempted to amend the constitution to stop the dissolution from being required. The reason the PAD occupied both the government house for almost 200 days and at the end, airport was to prevent the PPP from amending the constitution.

This dissolution article continues to one the key issues for the red shirts to this day.

As far as the contention that the PPP brought the Democratic coalition on themselves, this is true and many people were telling the PPP to quit and let the new party form a government.

Link

TH

bags with 100k baht?

here is Yongyuth statement

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/02/26...cs_30066530.php

anyway, fact is Yongyuth was found guilty by the EC to give money to 10 village headmen as a bribe to have them campaigning on behalf of his younger sister La-ong Tiyapairat. who was a PPP candidate in the constituency where the village heads came from.

Yongyuth, PPP deputy leader, got a red card from the Supreme Court as recommended by the EC. his sister got only a yellow card.

yellow card means she wasn't out but could try her luck again in a by-election. and that was what she did in August 2008.

interesting was it it to see the results in that by election, how would the turn out be without any evil influence.

La-ong got a decisive victory with 170,184 votes, while the second place Democrat MP Kitipong Namwong got only 19,480 votes.

http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/toc/ViewData...?DataID=1008805

that is the case of massive vote buying and electoral fraud.

for those who are interested to do a deeper recap of the 2007 election process. i recommend

www.anfrel.org Asian Network for Free Elections. the site is down at the moment, but that must be a temporary server issue. should be back soon. they had their independent observers all over the country and published a small report (90 pages).

http://www.anfrel.org/report/thailand/thai...SION%202007.zip

its a pdf inside the zip.

EDIT: found out that i can upload the file here too

THAI_MISSION_2007.zip

They KNEW the evidence against PPP and they KNEW that the PPP party execs would be banned. Their hubris kept them from calling new elections using the PTP banner. Blame the ones at fault and not the ones that are cleaning up the mess.

do you know the evidence?

can you give us a small recap?

if a banned-from-politics MP (banned because he is an executive head of the party) got his seat in the parliament with the proportional vote, was chosen from the party list, there will be no by-election for this seat. if just the MP were banned the runner up, the next candidate from the party list would take this seat, but in case the party got banned, dissolved, there is no valid party list with a runner up anymore.

that means voters lost their proportional vote this way.

I have a Thai friend who kept asking me to speak to her in Thai. I didn’t because she speaks English.

So for the past week I have been speaking to her in Thai. She is very happy now that she does not have to speak English with me. I asked her if she understood my Thai. Yes, she said. I asked her at what age level was my spoken Thai. She said it was that of a five year old. I agree, but my point is she would rather speak to a five year old Thai person than me in English. She has a masters degree.

did you try to discuss language skills issues or thai "culture" related topics with her?

she has her master degree and you can only talk and argue like a five year old - that is her point.

then she goes to leading thai webboard for feminist linguists on cultural studies and open a new topic in the "555" sub category...

QUESTION ...

Anybody know why the Taxi drivers seem to all be Red Shits or at least sympathize with them?

Is it because many are from Issan? My GF just simply says it is because the folks who control the Taxi companies were on Thaksin's payroll.

Also wondering if the Issan "working" girls from up North are typically on the Red side of the issue?

I live in the Huay Kwang area where a number of freelance & massage "working girls" also live and all of them I speak to say they are very opposed to the Red Shirts. The girls I know are all local or from the South as far as I know. But I get the impression even the Issan working girls are against the Red Shirts.

I just find it interesting that I don't know anybody who I speak with down here who sides with the Reds beyond the taxi drivers. Just trying to understand if it is a poor thing or more of a regional thing in terms of them getting support.

it is an issue of access to information and cognitive biases.

and which members of the government are not MPs?

None that i know of. You know different?

ohhh, you don't know? not really a surprise, but lets wait if some of the other 'experts' have an answer here.

the current government, that was not elected in by the people

Which MP in the current government was not elected?

All of them..

Wrong answer i'm afraid. Correct answer was "none".

and which members of the government are not MPs?

Might I point out, vis a vis electiveness, that Abhisit was in fact elected, and Mr T never, ever was elected, in his own right? He lost the BKK governor race, and from then on was canny enough to run as a party list contender. Overall, the Democrats are where they are now through legal, systemic means -- whether one agrees with the decisions that forced the outcome or not.

in the 2007 election Abhisit was on the party list for the proportional vote in zone 6 (Bangkok, Nonthaburi, Samut Prakan)

Chuan Leekpai also used his popularity to be first place on the party list for the south (zone 8)

so what is your point?

IMHO nothing wrong with being a party list candidate, some people here argue otherwise and i read at this board a couple of times the false claim that Abhisit got his seat per 'direct' vote.

to add some numbers:

in zone 6 (Bangkok, Nonthaburi, Samut Prakan) the Party list of the Democrats lead by Abhisit got 50,6 % (1,880,957 votes), the party list of the PPP, with Samak on top, got 41,4% (1,540,307 votes).

so its true in Bangkok & surroundings most of the people tend to the democrats, but its a myth that the PPP ( and related) doesn't have any support at all. and not forget, lot of people living and working in bangkok don't vote here, but back in their home provinces.

http://www.ect.go.th/english/2007%20Mp.html

(btw. do you know that Suthep had to resign from his MP seat, he got disqualified by EC for having violated the constitution.)

if a banned party party executive was also a MP he left an empty seat in the parliament.

empty seats of a constituency vote MP got refilled with by-elections.

'proportional vote seats' not. 10 or 11 seats (of the total 80 proportional seats) are now empty. Somchai Wongsawat, for example, had such party list seat. so currently the parliament has only 469/470 members instead of the original 480.

According to the Thai Parliament Website, there are currently 475 MPs.

or that implies that the thai parliament website isn't up to date. and/or not that accurate.

check the list in english and in thai:

http://mp.parliament.go.th/biographical/fr...onList_Eng.aspx

http://mp.parliament.go.th/biographical/fr...PersonList.aspx

how sure you are with your 475? is it just fresh google information or knowledge?

i have only a weak memory.

The Thai version of the list has 475 names, each with a party affiliation. It's dated 1 July, 2551, which I think was after the most recent by-election.

I may be wrong, but I would generally trust the Thai page over the English page.

MP list in Thai

that is 1 july 2008 a time where Samak was still in office. (and it is the date for the start of the visitor counter)

anyway, thanks for your try to help out. unfortunately a lot of these state official websites aren't well updated or administrated and you always have to double check.

if a banned party party executive was also a MP he left an empty seat in the parliament.

empty seats of a constituency vote MP got refilled with by-elections.

'proportional vote seats' not. 10 or 11 seats (of the total 80 proportional seats) are now empty. Somchai Wongsawat, for example, had such party list seat. so currently the parliament has only 469/470 members instead of the original 480.

According to the Thai Parliament Website, there are currently 475 MPs.

So that implies that 5 List MPs have been banned and haven't been replaced.

or that implies that the thai parliament website isn't up to date. and/or not that accurate.

check the list in english and in thai:

http://mp.parliament.go.th/biographical/fr...onList_Eng.aspx

http://mp.parliament.go.th/biographical/fr...PersonList.aspx

how sure you are with your 475? is it just fresh google information or knowledge?

i have only a weak memory.

The premise of this thread is twisted. You could do the same thing with many historic villainous leaders and it would be similarly pointless. When a leader has gone so far wrong as Thaksin has, the good things he had done in the past become moot points.

Well, I was hoping I would get some posts from Thaksin supporters as to why they really love him.

But there's been very little from them.

ohh, that is a fallacy of a lot of haters here. if i am not spreading irrational anti thaksin rhetoric 24/7 in every thread doesn't mean that i am a Thaksin lover.