rabo

As I'm typing this, my family in the north and northeast are praying that our Siam can be one again. We are all Thais, I still believe our blood is stronger than water...Just please stop the killings already!

Thanks for your post. Thais are one people of one heart and always will be. I am sorry to see anyone die, even Seh Daeng. A friend of mine knows him very well and he was not an evil greedy person.

Who shot 100 soldiers? Who blew up jet fuel depots? Who blew up power pylons, who fired 16 M79 grenades yesterday? Who shot the soldier out by Don Muang? Who shot the soldier in yesterday's video of the reds dragging unarmed soldiers out of a truck? Who has bombed roughly 80 locations in Thailand since March? Name 10 of the places.

Please write your answers clearly, partial credit will be given where applicable, you have 30 minutes.

As a bonus question worth 10 points, what Thai ex-leader was going to work with Seh Daeng to persue the fight to the finish against the govenment rather that compromise with Abhisit's 5 point reconciliation plan?

Why dont you wait for the enquiry result ?

As a bonus question .

Who accepted the PM "sincere" offer on the 5 points .

Answer : All the red leaders except Arisman and Sae Daeng .

Which reinforce my point , even Jatuporn or Dr Weng were not afraid of beeing arrested

not talking about Veera and others .

Finally this thread is about last two days not about 10th April . Nor about Thaksin

which Abhisit is trying very hard to emulate (tai Bak , war on drugs killings of innocent )

Probably because you did not want to wait for any inquiry into those who died yesterday, which is still very unclear.

I have read several of your posts and see you well understand the "reds" are made of different people and factions with widely divergent agendas. As you point out here, even the local leadership has widely differing views. Some of the leadership must be quite bothered by how things have gone. Others want a victory of a different kind.

If you were to defend the innocent red, in large part the "rural red" as I call them, I would go along with your views.

I find it hard to understand why some have such trouble separating Thaksin and his political agenda from the rural people's need for more support from Thailand's economic growth.

The Thai news coverage of this has been nothing short of absolutely awful. But you probably can't blame them, since they're probably on orders from the government to keep it to an absolute minimum, in order to keep the general population stupid and clueless. Just like they're shooting on foreign reporters that are trying to show to the world what's really happening.

You have no evidence for you views.

Seh Daeng was shot during a live recorded interview with the foreign press. Talk about openness or what.

Any recent pictures showing soldiers killing anyone? See people falling but haven't seen the shooters. So, army must not be killing anyone.

Many videos of soldiers shooting , none of red shooting .

Have a pick here and check reports from hospital .

17 deads civilians so far .

Great show Abhisit ...

Would you go and take a photo and video of someone who WILL shoot you if you do?

Why so many photos of soldiers shooting? Cause people dare to take photos and videos of them, knowing they won't get killed for it.

Then again even if the redshirt blew your head off, you'd still deny they use any weapons beyond footclappers...

. Cut the BS . The red shirts never shot anyone . Thanks

Who shot 100 soldiers? Who blew up jet fuel depots? Who blew up power pylons, who fired 16 M79 grenades yesterday? Who shot the soldier out by Don Muang? Who shot the soldier in yesterday's video of the reds dragging unarmed soldiers out of a truck? Who has bombed roughly 80 locations in Thailand since March? Name 10 of the places.

Please write your answers clearly, partial credit will be given where applicable, you have 30 minutes.

As a bonus question worth 10 points, what Thai ex-leader was going to work with Seh Daeng to persue the fight to the finish against the govenment rather that compromise with Abhisit's 5 point reconciliation plan?

Was just about to go take a shower to the outside toilet, when I noticed a lot of sharp pieces on the floor. Well, looking around it wasn't hard to spot the culprit.

This shot came from the southern side, through the concrete wall and tiling and still cracked the tiles on the other side's wall.

The height comparison of the holes is near identical, and being on 5th floor that would mean that it was shot from a fair distance, not just under the house.

FYI: the red stage is south, soldiers are under the house and towards the north, so there's really not much secret as to which side of the conflict this came from.

EDIT: Order of photos: from inside, wall that was hit; opposite wall; from outside; bullet

Put a long straw through the hole.... see where it points on the outside... that will give you an approx. location of the shooter.

Glad your safe.

Better yet... get a friend to shine a laser pointer through the hole while you observe from the outside.

Good idea, place the laser on the inside wall impact point and shine it through the hole.

Er, maybe not at night, you might instatly have about 10 more holes or so.

Nice piece of reporting, might help people find safe places in their homes.

Jerry --- you are Red. You have always excused the red threats of violence as "negotiations". You have failed to speak out against the red use of violence and instead have excused it as being needed for change and then added historical references to the French revolution AND to violent mobs using force as part of negotiations in France and other parts of Europe. It is when the reds get HURT that you speak about peace.

The reds had a great deal offered to them. They wanted elections. They wanted investigations into April 10th, they wanted and wanted. They were offered what they wanted then added more and would not go home. They called for violence and then vowed to fight to the death. You called it "negotiations". Now that they have the violence THEY called for from the red stage .......

Your claim to non-partisanship is not true --- one has only to read your posts. You are Red.

If asking for PEACE and no deaths is beeing red then I am red too and so is

most of the rest of the world , including a vast majority of thais .

Go on Jerry ....

Asking for peace and no deaths is Thai, but, Thaksin's red has come to mean armed insurgency, blowing up the country's infrastructure, invading hospitals, and is synonymous with M79 grenades, not to mention overt calls for destroying the country.

If you believe that the general Thai population, given their culture, supports any of this violence you are sadly mistaken.

Western models of downtrodden class upheaval tearing down the evil elite 'system' surely don't compute here, it ain't going to happen that way, and those who are comforted by such wet dreams are sure to be disappointed. Such a model fits here about as well as a group of Thai spiritual doctors in front of Wall Street waving their penis shaped talismans in an effort to cure the economic woes of the corrupt western financial system.

Very coloured description but you miss the basics

Tell me

Yesterday the ultra violent reds killed how many soldiers ?

And yesterday the "good" governement killed how many civilians ?

And today ?

Is the current PM trying to rival Thaksin on his Tai Bak massacre ?

Though colorful, I was addressing the basics. Yesterday's body count as a detail taken out of context is of little use to develop understanding, except perhaps as an emotive data point to back ones own preconceived views (for right or wrong). I can easily do the same.

To add context, ask what decisions might be made by a military taken off guard on April 10th by the assassination of their commanders and a surprise attack by a well armed undercover force. Do you suppose they might attempt removing the red insurgent commander (not sure they did) and apply force against the estimated 500 armed guards that may be mixed in with the innocent red crowd? I do.

Quesion: Anyone know whats happening with the Police at the moment, are they still involved in the conflicts? sided with the reds? or have they gotten out?

I don't think the police have become involved in the fighting in a significant way There was a post yesterday by the red parrot that the police were now shooting the soldiers. When I looked at the reference it was a report (Reuters) attributed to an unnamed witness that a (one) officer had been seen firing a gun (maybe once) in the direction of some troops.

Maybe there's more later but I have not seen it.

The guy is an incompetent, irresponsible leader that has just brought the country to the edge of civil war, due to his impatience, frustration and unwillingness to show flexibility in negotiations. How much blood needs to be spilled under this idiots leadership before you tell him to resign ?

The blood lust on this forum is disgusting.

Way off base here can you imagine any other leader being in charge now, say Thaksin? If this was reversed and Thaksin was in power I would put the number of casualties in the hundreds already. You are a fool to think that Abhisit hasn't bent over backwards to give these idiots every possible way out and each time they have spit in the face of him and the rest of Thailand.

YOu are the one way off base.

Thaksin is calling for returning to the negotiation table. I would much rather have Thaksin calling the shots than this braindead moron Abhisit.

Go back and read Seh Daeng's lips in the days before he got shot. Read all that he said. He and Thaksin are going for the fight, to hel_l with the chicken moderate red leaders. Thaksin does not want compromise (surprise!).

Jerry --- you are Red. You have always excused the red threats of violence as "negotiations". You have failed to speak out against the red use of violence and instead have excused it as being needed for change and then added historical references to the French revolution AND to violent mobs using force as part of negotiations in France and other parts of Europe. It is when the reds get HURT that you speak about peace.

The reds had a great deal offered to them. They wanted elections. They wanted investigations into April 10th, they wanted and wanted. They were offered what they wanted then added more and would not go home. They called for violence and then vowed to fight to the death. You called it "negotiations". Now that they have the violence THEY called for from the red stage .......

Your claim to non-partisanship is not true --- one has only to read your posts. You are Red.

If asking for PEACE and no deaths is beeing red then I am red too and so is

most of the rest of the world , including a vast majority of thais .

Go on Jerry ....

Asking for peace and no deaths is Thai, but, Thaksin's red has come to mean armed insurgency, blowing up the country's infrastructure, invading hospitals, and is synonymous with M79 grenades, not to mention overt calls for destroying the country.

If you believe that the general Thai population, given their culture, supports any of this violence you are sadly mistaken.

Western models of downtrodden class upheaval tearing down the evil elite 'system' surely don't compute here, it ain't going to happen that way, and those who are comforted by such wet dreams are sure to be disappointed. Such a model fits here about as well as a group of Thai spiritual doctors in front of Wall Street waving their penis shaped talismans in an effort to cure the economic woes of the corrupt western financial system.

Red in Thailand is the National color and does not stand for commis you dufass.

Red is the color for the English so do you call them commis too.

God help me

Nope purple is Thailands national colour.

Yellow is the colour of the king

Red is the colour of Thailands former Communist party.

Just because part of the Thai flag is red, doesnt mean it is the national colour.

I am not English btw. I resent that insinuation.

W

One slight addition, yellow is not the official color of the monarchy, it's the official Thai color for Monday, the King's birthday. It has long been used to show respect for the Monarchy including the yellow ribbons on gun barrels during the peaceful 2006 coup. Before that, yellow shirts saying I love my king were vastly popular and almost everyone would wear one on Mondays. A small percentage of these shirts were pink.

The color yellow became more associated with the PAD and is now the evil color of airport closers.

Red in Thailand is the National color and does not stand for commis you dufass.

Red is the color for the English so do you call them commis too.

God help me

No, red is not the National color of Thailand. Sigh.

A bit of light relief

Now that's a great photo, why don't CNN and the like post these things.

When was it taken? I see tanks in the background.

TAN Network: Red-shirt leader Kwanchai Praipana has been quoted as saying, "We will surrender in our next life."

Excellent. I trust that will be a reality soon. The sooner Kwanchai and his terrorist band surrender the better.

If they could just shut the leaders up for a while or make them disappear, as soon as the remaining supporters were allowed to think for themselves for a few minutes, the first thing they would think about is how to get out of there.

Yesterday he instructed everyone to "stay in the area, we cannot protect you if you go elsewhere ......"

Kind of like standing in Hiroshima and saying, "See that little thing floating down from the sky? Keep your eyes on it and whatever you do, don't move"

I live inside the 'barricades' (Langsuan) and am pretty keen on leaving Bangkok til things settle down since i am prisoner in my own home at the moment

Any advice on the best way to make an escape form Langsuan would be appreciated.

Whats the best point of exit? Mode of transport. What roads are closed etc

Thanks

Walk. Wear bright clothing.

Head towards Ploenchit and Suhkumvit. It's close, and there hasn't been reports of problems down that end.

If it looks dangerous, head the other direction through Ratchaprasong to Siam square and MBK.

The clashes seem to be on either side - Rama IV and Petchaburi.

Choose your time. If you hear or see something serious you can turn back and try later. Don't force anything.

Here is one problem, do not be seen carrying anything, I suspect you would want to take something for the trip, take money, it can be replaced.

Or stay at home, have 72 hours of food and water. American embassy said armed conflict almost never continues longer than that in anyone area. Stay away from all windows.

Embassy also recommends just go for a short holiday, there is no need to leave Thailand, this is not a civil war, Thais are not going to turn the country into an armed hel_l like western countries do, the problem is in Bangkok.

Good luck. You will be OK, I guarantee that, 98%.

16 dead.

No soldiers.

Who is using "live ammo" ?

Certainly looks like its just the Government side, those who should be trying to stop violence and killing, but they are the ones doing the killing.

I know I'm gonna regret asking you this, but how can you possibly take sides with common criminals? That's all they really are. They hide behind what they say is political reform, when in actuality all they want is their paymaster back in Thailand and pardoned for his numerous criminal convictions/charges. I mean what's your angle here? If you have a clear thinking mind, you can't support these thugs. Are you possibly being paid to post here? If you are, cheers!

Also mr un levelhead the army are using live amo on these armed thugs who were warned before anyone armed and threatening will be shot.

what do you want the army to do hide in tress and let them take over

I really don't know why people respond to you .

I think it is kind of like people being fascinated by a horrible auto accident, only this case is a logic and reasoning accident where all the facts get mangled.

In this case trying to paint a picture that all the violence is caused by the govt, totally ignoring the vast amount of evidence that the red group is armed, trained, dangerous, calling for destruction, and blowing up the country's infrastructure to the best of their ability.

Watched an interesting discussion last night by a group of Thai's - the consensus was very much the same. Abhisit has no choice but to go through with this. He can not allow anymore half arsed actions by the army. The time has come to put an end to the occupation of Bangkok. The Thai's are fat up with those morons dictating their lives. They pointed out how some of the red shirt leaders jumped at the "road map' for an acceptable way out and everybody breathed a sigh of relieve. but within a couple of day's, unreasonable demands were issued by some of the rd leaders who were not going to accept anything but surrender from the government. By doing so putting an end to negotiations.

They agreed that if anyone is to blame for any casualties. it is the red leadership and their General Thaksin.

One point they raised was that the red shirt leaders would not be able to walk the streets anymore without a large group of body guards because they have many enemies now and not only among the "elite", but also the normal Thai on the street who has been severely affected by all this anarchy.

Found this quite refreshing to listen to Thai's who were quite objective about the whole thing, having an intelligent discussion when compared to the redist morons here on the forum.

Amen, 90% of the Thais have quite reasonably thought out views and an understanding of events, no matter what political leaning they may have. Although I have my views, I've had no trouble holding long, civil discussions with Thais on all sides at all levels. One can only wonder what is going on in this forum.

A quick look at some of the forums in the west (try CNNs) shows this seems to be a Western problem.

Thai's are very much into revenge.

Thais, 95% of whom are Buddhist and world famous for mai pen rai, are not very much in to revenge.

This is your own twisted Western thinking deluding you.

I wonder if somebody could give me the exact location of the spot where Seh Daeng was shot. Yesterday, I saw gate 2 of Lumpini mentioned but I don't know where that gate is. It's not that I want to go there, heaven forbid, but I would like to give the correct location for the video on YouTube.

If you know the spot, please use this map lookup tool to determine the geocode (latitude and longitude). Use satellite view, if necessary, to see the gates on the map.

Thank you!

--

Maestro

I would also be nice to know which direction he was facing as he was being interviewed.

Sorry, no way I can read 35 pages to see if this has already been said, but seems to me that someone is taking revenge for the assassination of that Thai military officer, a while back, with the shooting of Sae Daeng.

its possible, he did say he had trained the men who did it

although i favor the 'from within his own ranks theory'

the bullet will tell the tale.........

I heard the red killed seh dang story too, and its seems to be supported by the interview he gave before he got shot which revealed major conflicts between red leaders.

to me it seems that he is in a conflict with the 'dove team' he mentioned, and i also heard that the 'dove team' wanted to accept PMs roadmap which Seh Dang was against.

Interview Link:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...;-30129281.html

And, Seh Daeng spent much of the past few days linking Thaksin to every level of events, claiming Thaksin is against compromise, and that he and Thaksin together will take the militant road. As Thaksin is already aledged to have shot Sondhi, it's at least possible.

But I think this one remains a real coin toss. To many viable theories.

Why doe they have to disperse a crowd with live ammunition? I've seen several time hooligans being dispersed with a water canon.

Why do these clashes always have to be so bloody and cause so many casualty's?

Because the red insurgents are using LETHAL weapons, that's why. Duh.

The Abhisit's thugs use live ammunition because they have a history of hanging protesters from trees and using many other forms of intimidation besides Abhisit's main tactic of suppression of free thinking by mass censorship. It is no coincidence that Abhisit's thugs have targeted journalists.

PLEASE PROVIDE EVIDENCE THAT ABHISIT HAS EVER HUNG A PROTESTER FROM A TREE.

I don't know what happened, but for a short period I couldn't access thaivisa.com because of this:

http://www.thaivisa.com/404.0.html

Everytime I clicked something on Thai visa I was getting this message. What was going on???

Anyhow. Any more casualties by now???

I was getting the same message it was as if TV was beng hijacked ?? by a Sponser ??

BT

No, 404 is the standard code for "web page not found" used everywhere. If the mods are cleaning up links or renaming pages this will happen. I get the sense the mods are hard a work today. More power to them, they do a very good job.

Where are the UDD proteters now. Since the military seems to have a hard time containing them, the protesters must have split in various areas of Bangkok right now on the loose, am I correct?

No you aren't they are still concentrated in the protest zone. Lumphini park and Pratunam are with in the roads closed by the military.

So Asoke has been moved into this area? Try please to read more real news.

Area of contain is only small on map. Isaan is very very big.... even more big than is bangkok. Going to surround that next

Reporting now, some police fired guns at army! Many guns out there so lets hope for solution.

Can you please provide the link for this information!

Until yesterday, the army supplied the water to the red shirts. Unbelievable? It's true.

Dis info alert. There have been pictures of public fire hydrants used by the reds. They have installed complete water systems to them. Other reports of water being sourced from police facilities.

Try reading this story.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Reds-...u-30129297.html

Always engage brain before mouth (or in this case typing fingers).

.

Dis info alert 2.

The article you referenced said nothing about military providing water to the reds till yesterday (subject of dis info)

It said nothing about who provided drinks to the guards.

Does not say what the drinks were.

Only speculates the drinks may have had sedatives.

This and another article was released yesterday. The other clearly stated that the few guards that went to the hospital were throwing up, as if sick.

[end dis info alert 2]

Notice: If you feel this dis info alert has been sent in error, please review all facts concerning subject.

Interesting Eyewitness account

http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong/2010/05/14/entry-1

May 14, 2010

A bullet that went through Seh Daeng's right temple before passing through his throad and the back of his neck appears to be shot from a Winchester .308 rifle.

A military expert has told me that the angle of the travelling bullet that struck Seh Daeng down was somewhere between 45 to 75 degree. This can only mean that a sniper must have stalked up Maj Gen Khattiya Sawasdiphol or Seh Daeng at one of the buildings nearby.

Seh Daeng was shot at around 7:00 PM yesterday while he was giving an interview to foreign journalists, including Thomas Fuller of the New York Times. He is now in critical conditions and placed under intensive care unit at Vajira Hospital. Chances of his survival are very slim.

A person by the name of El Shaheen posted an interesting comment in Thomas Fuller's report, Thai General Shot; Army Moves to Face Protesters, in the New York Times as follows:

"I was at Sala Deang area near the MRT station. A group of us reported about noise coming from the the Dusit Hotel. What looked like a long stick extended from the roof top. Within minutes, the general was speaking to his supporters, offering water to an elderly lady and giving her a hug. Moments later, a shot was heard from overhead. The object had been pulled back and a man with a black hood stood up and walked away. About 5 min. later. A man wearing the same outfit was escorted out of the hotel into a black police van. Quickly, it took off and proceeded to go up Rama 4 and turned left to go towards MBK.

Military officers where seen smiling and shaking each others hands from this killing of this man.

Our party was told by an army officer. You have seen nothing, go back to your hotel at once or you will be arrested and deported. He repeated again and again. You've seen nothing, nothing to see here. Go back to your hotels.

Staff at the Dusit hotel were seen outside, talking to a few of the officers.

There are a number of odd things about this eye witness account. No least of which is a sniper pulling off the shot heard round the world, then getting up in plain view, coming down the lift and, without changing his appearance, walking out the front door, into a bunch of reporters (stationed at the hotel!) and getting into a clearly marked vehicle the gives away his identity and the whole plot.

Might as well have signed his autograph for the reporters (if it was a he).

Getting back to Sah Daeng, it must be obvious to everyone that :

Seh Daeng attempted assassination plus the red guards being drugged all on the same night, the night before the army moves in..........

Well its obvious who did it, however it is surprising that the "government" (the obvious candidate) would be so brazen as to do it and then just deny it, anyone who can work out 2+2=4 should be able to see within milliseconds what has happened here.

If it was last week then the link would not be so obvious as to doing it just before the crackdown starts, that stinks of just complete contempt for the law, mind you, a coup is also complete contempt for the laws of a country - so it all links in really ?

This might be the death nail in Abhisits reputation on the international stage, if it was not slaughtered already.

I'd like to know how the army drugged the red guards.

Until yesterday, the army supplied the water to the red shirts. Unbelievable? It's true.

Dis info alert. There have been pictures of public fire hydrants used by the reds. They have installed complete water systems to them. Other reports of water being sourced from police facilities.