rabo

Some strange thoughts. Appropriate user name "Clockwork Orange". Ab is nowhere near Thaksin at this point. In fact I have been amazed by his patience. What other leader in any country in the world would let mayhem and anarchy invade their capital for two months? Please name me a single nation or shut up.

I'm with you on this one. Many people are of the belief that Abhisit didn't swing the hammer earlier because he couldn't get the Army to do it. In my opinion that theory is highly unlikely to be true. For goodness sake, he's the Prime Minister of Thailand. The LAST thing he wants to do is have to order the Army to shoot at other Thais.

Unfortunately, the reds used this to their advantage for the last two months. Even now, Abhisit is showing a level of restraint that is almost painful to watch. If he was really a bloodthirsty fascist wannabe dictator, this would all have been over a long time ago.

Many people seem to fear a return by Thaksin. That would suck, but I think the real and very possible nasty outcome is that Thais vote in a true rights-stomping "law and order" government and PM because they don't want a repeat of all this.

I agree, I think the biggest/best outcome would be that more Thais are willing to support law and order, especially corruption and voter fraud. It is not Thai nature to face a problem that is not immediate or to see a problem through to it's conclusion. If it's not here today, lets play. Maybe this time their thinking will start to change.

When this is all done, I think they really, really need to either pursue Thaksin through the international courts or get international support to bring him back for a fair trial here. In the west we call this closure.

Of course the Thai army, with all its weaponry and armour, can win this battle, much to the delight of all the armchair warriors in this forum.

You make it sound like you just came in from a shift of shooting @ the blackshirts on the front line to type a few lines...

Ho! Wait, wait. Stop, cut, hooooold the action. OK, cool. Now, I want an M16 or grenade in each arsonists' hands. This has got to be fair. OK, good. NO! Don't put the barrel in your mouth! Woahhhh, don't pull that pin!

as per earlier post, Nuttawut was leading the comedy sketches on stage... the others...

Jatuporn and Arisman Have Fled after Soldiers Reclaim Ratchaprasong

UPDATE : 19 May 2010

ASTV and several other media are reporting that key red-shirt core leaders including Jatuporn Promphan, Arisman Pongruengrong, and Suporn Attawong have fled the Ratchaprasong protest site after soldiers were able to reclaim the Sarasin intersection.

See ya later suckarrrs

Oh, sinner man, where you gonna run to

Oh, sinner man, where you gonna run to

Oh, sinner man, where you gonna run to

All on that day

Run to the rock, rock was a meltin'

Run to the rock, rock was a meltin'

Run to the rock, rock was a meltin'

All on that day

Run to the sea, sea was a boilin'

Run to the sea, sea was a boilin'

Run to the sea, sea was a boilin'

All on that day

Run to the moon, moon was a bleedin'

Run to the moon, moon was a bleedin'

Run to the moon, moon was a bleedin'

All on that day

Run to the Lord, Lord won't you hide me?

Run to the Lord, Lord won't you hide me?

Run to the Lord, Lord won't you hide me?

All on that day

Thaskin is definatly the cause and the financial organizer of this protest

Panic and chaos will allow him to return

But the question is

Is Thaskin the head of all of this

or just a puppet himself

There are many of my business friends who say he is but a puppet of The New World Order

and Thailand is a test site for bigger things to come

IF, the new world order is to be based on experiments in Thailand (bizarre little Buddhist kingdom that we all know and love) I suggest investing in horses, oil lamps, and a good pocket watch. Back we go!

so house prices in bangkok might come down then. good time to buy?!

I imagine housing in the city center will go down, but prices elsewhere might depend on migration patterns.

Just heard from a colleague that Chula Hospital was set on fire.

Can anyone confirm this?

Near Chula. Not exactly good for any respiratory illness patients.

Smoke from burning tiers rises near Chulalongkorn Hospital in downtown Bangkok, Thailand, Wednesday, May 19, 2010. Thai troops and armored vehicles converged early Wednesday around the barricaded encampment of anti-government protesters in downtown Bangkok and opened fire in what appears to be a final crackdown to disperse them.

Where's Amnesty International on this one?

Patients have no human rights, only dissidents held for instigating chaos.

Thaskin is definatly the cause and the financial organizer of this protest

Panic and chaos will allow him to return

But the question is

Is Thaskin the head of all of this

or just a puppet himself

There are many of my business friends who say he is but a puppet of The New World Order

and Thailand is a test site for bigger things to come

First it was your missus telling you what to say, and now your 'business friends'

You're right about Thaksin though. Contrary to what a lot of people might claim, he is simply a catalyst and not the root cause, which is public dissatisfaction with the system. When Thaksin goes, somone else will take his place.

Would it not be nice if the person who takes his place is intelligent and works peacefully from within the system to promote better economic balance and opportunity through education, lasting infrastructure and financial assistance? Rather than someone thrown out for massive corruption and human rights violations only to return through death, destruction, and fracturing society.

Granted Thaksin has taught Thailand a lesson they must learn, kind of like the shoe bomber.

We live out on Jaengwhattana, surrounded by 3 army bases (some large some small).

Over the last few days there has been a buildup of army personnel transport vehicles, mostly buses some army trucks, jeeps, etc, Estimate about 20 to 25. This morning they have all disappeared. Pictures.

Well, according to your logic, you cannot use the gun. You just have to let the other guy do whatever he wants, especially if he says he's lighting you on fire or burning down your house in the name of democracy.

Well, I've seen footage of the army shooting paramedics so your "logic" hits you in the face. And JC said he would rather take his chances with a bullet than a Molotov cocktail. He set no rules or parameters. But even if the guy with the Molotov cocktail threw first, I know what I would feel more comfortable with. And I think the army do too - else they'd be sneaking off the Esso and Shell every five minutes.

And the rule is the guy with the gun cannot shoot before the other guy throws the Molotov cocktail.

Hmmm... see above...

And then there's the question of range. Trying to hit a target 500 metres away with a M-150 bottle and your arm as the power source. These Yellows don't think it through. I still pity them...

Bangkok, can you pleeeease post a link to a video showing the Army shooting paramedics in the head.

I,m sure many want to see that. Thanks

How about a molotov cocktail?

I would rather take my chances with a bullet than getting hit with one of those and being engulfed in flames and face a possibly long and painful death.

Okay then JC, in true Harry Hill style... Fight! You have a Molotov cocktail and I have a gun. One bottle and one shot each, okay?

......, and the rule is the guy with the gun cannot shoot before the other guy throws the molotov cocktail.

This guy better go back to shooting school if he want to hurt someone. He is firing at the sky. Paid actors?

No. look carefully and you will see that this is not a gun but a dustbin with firecrackers for effect.

can any photograph in history better symbolize poor people fighting a modern army with absolutely nothing but their bravery?

this is photo deserves the Pulitzer Prize. if the quality is good enough, this is going viral. think what a field day Amnesty is going to have with this one.

due thanks everybody to JCBangkok for his excellent research in bringing this to the attention of the world.

Please consider this point - honestly. All of us have the luxury of sitting on our nice safe sofas studying the video and photo. is it a dustbin, could be. Now, consider the soldier 100 meters away facing the reds. Firecrackers go off, noise, smoke. This jerk stands up and - is it an automatic weapon or dustbin? You have a mili-second to decide. Any LEO or military guys out there ever been in that position? Easy to make the decision? No court would prosecute a soldier returning fire under those circumstances. And what was the guys point in doing that anyway? Simple - to draw fire. As my father used to say, its all fun and games until someone loses an eye.

And as for Pulitzer- the photo of the kid being held above the tire wall has a much better chance.

I think I may have been the first to say this was a really amazing video as it looked like someone standing up and firing a machine gun, maybe we can let JC rest a bit.

But then it's even more amazing. What on earth is the guy doing? For what purpose? They are firing things, possibly grenades, we assume at the Army, the guy jumps up just as the firecrackers are going off, waves the dust bin or whatever rapidly and the drops like a stone in vacuum.

1. Is he trying to make the Army think he is shooting a machine gun (M16s/AK47s etc are also machine guns).

2. The handle is used as a tube to fire something like a roman candle?

3. He is mentally retarded or on ya ba?

4. It is an un-comprehensible Thai action?

5. __________________

Watch at 32 seconds (look at man on right) and you will see why Reds are using fireworks and why fireworks & bottle rockets always precede attacks such as the grenade attacks on the SkyTrain.

This is the most amazing video I have seen.

Did you also see the red who empties a machine gun clip while the string of firecrackers is set off???

Who would be filming these? Maybe the video comes from a confiscated camera.

retracted

Less wacki tobacki for Mr. Zawacki :

This guy is not firing at 'unarmed' people, he's firing with a hangun at the might of Thailands military who are armed to the teeth including M79 grenades, strange that eh ?

[see image above]

According to all official announcements, the Army is not allowed "heavy weapons" which include m79 grenades. My understanding is the grenades and RPGs are being used by the red side. If you have any evidence otherwise, I would be interested.

And I would be interested in you posting a red shirt shooting an RPG

So far:

1. RPGs have been fired at a 200,000 litre fuel storage tank (April)

2. Last night 3 RPGs fired at the upper floors of the Dusit Hotel, initial reports were 3 rockets, don't know if that still holds.

Only pictures of the fuel storage tank were of the hole after the fire was put out.

Haven't seen pictures of the Dusit incident but later reports said one of the exploded rockets was shown to the reporters hiding in the basement, perhaps they took a picture of that, maybe they will show up later.

"Eyewitness accounts and video recordings show clearly that the military is firing live rounds at unarmed people who pose no threat whatsoever to the soldiers or to others," said Amnesty's Thailand specialist Benjamin Zawacki.

Less wacki tobacki for Mr. Zawacki :

This guy is not firing at 'unarmed' people, he's firing with a hangun at the might of Thailands military who are armed to the teeth including M79 grenades, strange that eh ?

[see image above]

According to all official announcements, the Army is not allowed "heavy weapons" which include m79 grenades. My understanding is the grenades and RPGs are being used by the red side. If you have any evidence otherwise, I would be interested.

good grief, are people incapable of reading a statement properly on here? amnesty international is not saying that nobody in the red camp is armed. it is saying that SOME of the people in there, specifically women and children, are unarmed and are being fired at with live rounds by a nation state's army. that is a violation of human rights, whether they are in the red camp by choice or not.

People on here read what they want to read steve, it is clear that unarmed people that pose no immediate threat are being shot and killed, but some on here think that being in a protest is justification enough to be shot and killed, even the two red cross operative trying to help people were murdered by the army.

I saw this morning on television the army showing only 3 protesters carrying weapons, I would rather see footage of the people they shot and murdered with guns or grenades posing an immediate threat to life, sadly though they don't seem to have any of this footage as the people shot and killed were on the whole unarmed and posing to immediate danger.

Hopefully people will take note of this report, well people that matter and not the usual red shirt haters on here.

I would say that many people are unable to read because of preconceived notions.

I still don't see where Amnesty has accused the Army of shooting the medics. Albeit there article has their familiar bias, not that the bias is intentional or malicious. Here is their actual wording, I have tried to include enough to give a fair representation.

"Eye-witness accounts and video recordings show clearly

that the military is firing live rounds at unarmed people who pose no threat

whatsoever to the soldiers or to others," said Benjamin Zawacki, Amnesty

International's Thailand specialist. "This is a gross violation of a key

human right--the right to life".

"Deliberately firing live ammunition at unarmed people, whether they be

protesters or otherwise and who pose no credible threat to anyone else, is

unlawful", said Zawacki.

Since 13 May, when the government began "Operation Rachaprasong",

soldiers have fired rubber and live rounds in and around protest sites in

several parts of Bangkok. The government claims that there are around 500

"terrorists" hiding among the protesters.

At least 35 unarmed protesters have been killed. The dead include two medics

who were wearing white medical uniforms with visible red crosses, shot on 15

and 16 May; and a 17 year-old boy, shot on 15 May. Maj. Gen. Khattiya

Sawatdiphon (known as "Seh Daeng"), a military advisor for the

protesters, was struck by a sniper's bullet on 14 May and died on 17 May. In

addition another soldier has been killed.

If anyone can show me where AI clearly says the Army shot the the medics I would appreciate it. Yes, there tone clearly shows thay have taken sides against the Army, but I do not see the factual statement that each and every death was do to Army shooting. Do you?

Also note, by their account they do say that the two medics were protesters. This is not a well written announcement.

The CRES called on members of the mass media and the people in general to send pictures and video clips of the violence to police, so that wrongdoers could be arrested.

The centre stressed that police and soldiers would not use their weapons against unarmed civilians, but would use them to counter armed attacks by terrorists.

The centre described United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship co-leader Natthawut Saikua as one of the major terrorist figures.

Does anyone have contact details for cres to send images ?

@georgebkk<H1 id=heading></H1>AFP: Amnesty accused army snipers of killing two medics wearing white medical uniforms as well as a 17-year-old boy.

I would really like to know how Amnesty International was able to determine who shot the two medics in the head.

Of course, I would also like to know who did shoot them.

It's OK for gossipers to opinionate on such issues, but AI should not make such accusations without facts.

Has anyone seen any facts on this one or the original statements from AI?

Assuming you're assertions are correct (many would disagree) then an Amnesty isn't going to solve anything. It will just become more protracted, and that isn't going to help anyone.

Clearly, there is no good will from the reds, who have turned down a reasonable way forward. Right minded people (no pun intended) are becoming more and more disillusioned with the Reds as each day goes by and they continue to act like a collection of leaderless factions.

Revealing Truth always helps. Paying a little amnesty for truth is worth it IMO.

this is just a pre-amble to announcing Veera has switched sides and told the government where the money is coming from, who got it and where the bodies are buried

you do not think its a coincidence that Veera dissapears for 5 days, the government suddenly changes its emphasis over to Thaksin, who is now to blame for all this and they suddenly know which bank accounts are feeding the fire do you?

Veera has turned, watch this space.................

Let's hope so, because when the immediate violence ends the gov't will need people like Veera on board in order to effect any lasting peace. Of course, their own part in bringing this mayhem to the country in the first place will be conveniently ignored.

Do you have any evidence for this? (I hope so, that it is true). The first to switch sides and spill the beans are the ones that get off the hook.

In a related story: Remember Thaksin's planes full of cash? Here are his wife's trucks.

Authorities will shortly ask two close aides of Pojaman na Pombejra, ex-wife of Thaksin Shinawatra, to substantiate their recent cash withdrawals of Bt600 million and Bt800 million.

The Centre for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES) said yesterday that massive amounts of money had been withdrawn by Akarat Changlao and Kanchanapa Honghern, respectively, on behalf of Pojaman.

The money was taken out of bank accounts in cash and left the banks in several vehicles.

It's true the Kingdom of Thailand is more than the current governing coalition, there is an opposition party and of course there is the monarchy. ..............

And also an army, a supreme court, an election committee, an attorney general, a constitution, and other institutions yes? (sorry if the names are not exactly right, I know that these institutions exist but I do not know their formal name). And if I've understand well all these institutions have been established through a long democratization process. So again, collapse of government doesn't equals collapse of state.

Yes, but I wasn't speaking about a collapse of government, you were. I don't believe that is the insurgency's aim. If they were after democratic change they would have taken the deal they agreed to and later reneged on. They are clearly after something else.

I still don't see the threat of State collapse. Yes the whole issue about the deal and the negotiations doesn't make sense but I assume this is one of Thai "specialties". I don't know and I can't know for sure the background of the deal and I would agree that was extremely immature for the reds that they were not giving a clear answer but then look at the response! Instead of leaving their movement to fade out the response is snippers!

I think people here are a bit weary of digging out factual info as it's often strategically ignored (no reference to current posters)

But if you can google and find some of the red sites, (look for "Amataya" spelled อำมาตย /am-màat-tà-ya/ or อำมาตย์

/am-màat/ in Thai ), look at what they are describing as elites, it's the whole ball of wax including government organizations, monarchy, people at universities, and I saw on that included the head of TOT (or maybe it was Thai Airlines). They are talking about removing the state, not an elected government.

In all fairness, I think this is more emotional retoric, but clearly they are not complaining about a political issue.

@seahorse My understanding here is the IP data is available within the software, but only to Administration level.

Regards

I have a phpbb3 forum, which should be similar. The admin has full rights to do anything. User names and account info are all contained in a single database. The admin can save or backup this database, which is in a text format. If saved as text, any common software can be used for searching and matching user names and IP information. Passwords are there but encrypted. It may be possible to at least match them as well. Once in text format the admin can allow others, i.e., moderators to study and search this file and the time to do so would be minimal. (But I bet our fine mods are rather busy right now)

There may be easier ways, but this one is not hard. I would be glad to be of further help if someone would PM me.

I agree, I think the forum has a problem with a certain small group of repeat people, up to no good.

Animatic put it well when he said, "crazy people cannot be crazy like this"

Some of the repeat performer's styles are easily recognizable. The biggest thing I notice is their positions have no emotional style. While totally impervious to fact, they show no emotional involvement. When cornered, they move to the next item in a list, mai pen rai. I also thing some of the hours they keep are a bit suspicious, but have not really looked into that.

read first, understand the series of posts and then reply :-) Yes violence sells but what I was telling is that the last hours the international media do not report on Thailand on the basis of violent pictures.

Sorry, must have got lost in translation. Sometimes it's difficult to understand exactly what people are trying to say...

no problem :-) it happens in the forums. Especially when many of us are not native speakers.

But the point is well taken, though when I checked with CNN they had a different picture, one of a black shirt guard sitting watching the city in flames, but CNN rotates their pictures and the one you saw was probably there too.

I think the western media have trouble digesting heavily armed insurgents mixed with old folk relaxing playing with kids. It just doesn't happen that way in the West.

When the Dusit was hit with 3 RPGs last night, someone reportedly showed one of the exploded shells to all the reporters hiding in the basement. Be interesting to see how that gets reported.

I didn't look since I don't need convincing but you can see a number of videos of reds with assault rifles if you go back a couple pages in this thread or if you watch Thai TV. In addition to assault rifles you will see grenade launchers as well as molotov cocktails (which if hit with one, you would wish you were shot) as well as spears and slingshots which certainly can also be a deadly weapon. But "IF" you are insinuating they got rid of their weapons from the 10th then I beg differ just out of common sense.

I'm just interested to know if they are using the weapons that they allegedly have. I'm well aware that they took weapons before and then returned them, as I understand it the army claim that allegedly they didn't get them all back. It has to be said that there seems to be little evidence that they're using them. I totally concur with what you said about the molotov cocktails etc.

There is a huge amount of evidence for weapons going way back. At random.

Seh Daeng is famous for his love of grenades, he fired one into Anupong's office the day after he was relived of duty.

Significant weapons caches were found in Seh Daeng's home and the home of his advisor.

Other weapons are rumored to have been stolen from the military.

The police discovered a small factory in Ayutthaya manufacturing components for M79 launchers.

They discovered several hundred pieces but the owner said he had already delivered about 1000 to unknown customer.

35 kilos of C4 explosive in 7 bombs was placed on powr pylons and detonated April 10, only 4 exploded.

Around April 20th an RPG rocket was used to try and destroy a 200,000 jet fuel tank at a PTT fuel depot.

Last night 3 RPGs were fired into the upper floors of the Dusit hotel.

April 28 (my Bday) 63 M79 grenades were conficsated while being delivered near the red/army fighting out near Don Meuang.

By end of April roughy 80 bombings had been reported nation wide.

After April 10, several raids on red apartments in Bangkok yielded war weapons.

Various photos of reds carrying weapons.

The assassination of the Army commanders on the night of April 10th.

Nearly 100 Soliders were shot on the night of April 10th.

Videos of reds using weapons including the one yesterday of a grenade launcher.

20 years ago when I came here the first time grenades were 600 baht/unit.

The M79s delivered April 28 were being sold for 1200 baht/unit. (inflation)

Weapons are readily available in Thailand.

And theres more, the reds are heavily armed, but it's problaby groups of rangers, not the common thugs

although some of them may get weapons elsewhere.

Watching channel 3 now. It seems a petrol tanker has been hijacked at Bon kai.

Could get nasty.

Someone advise them that for maximum result, you need to shoot at it from real close,...

And your motivation for putting that on a public forum?

Wondered the same. Maybe he means real close, don't bother standing back, it won't save you.

Din Daeng: Petrol truck bomb next to PPT petrol station....Reds firing rockets at it. Channel 3 ... live u can get it in English!

Why is PPT bringing petrol trucks into the city?

Che, it's you, would recognize you anywhere.