KhunHeineken

Again, you refuse to address the non resident tax brackets. They are 32.5% from $0. All the material you post is in relation to resident tax rates. The whole game changes when you are a non resident. Post a link showing pensions do not come under the non resident tax brackets. Too right it doesn't exist, and that's why it's highly probably pensioners will have 32.5% tax withheld from their pension after being outside of Australia for 6 months when the proposed changes are passed, exactly the way they have their supplements withheld after being outside of Australia for 6 weeks. I find it laughable that you state on here "pensioner do not pay tax" and then admit there are no links to back up your argument because such links don't exist. The links don't exist because your argument doesn't exist.

Do tell. Paul Hogan tried that, and look what happened to him. Who said Centerlink had to "collect" anything? They would simply withhold the 32.5% non resident tax in the same way they withhold the supplements. Yes, rocket science. It's clear that you seen to think pensions / pensioners are exempt from paying tax no matter their geographic location. So I can be clear on what point you are debating, can you tell me which of the following you believe to be incorrect? 1) The pension is deemed to be an income. 2) The pension is taxable. 3) There is no tax free threshold in the non resident tax brackets. 4) There are no exemption in the proposed changes. 5) There is no proposed new tax free threshold for the non resident tax brackets. I have proved links for all of the above. If you can tell me one or more of the five thins above that is wrong, and back it up with some links, I could better understand why you think pensions / pensioners will not have to pay non resident tax. You are wrong. The pension is deemed an income, simple as that. I have posted links to this previously. It has nothing to do with having other sources of income, or not. You still can't get your head around the non resident tax brackets. I'll post them again for your benefit. Can you show me in the table below where someone's first $26,000 (the pension) doesn't have to pay any tax? The "zero tax" you are talking about is for residence of Australia for tax purposes. Living in Thailand for more than 183 days, you will be deemed to be a non resident for tax purposes and the rate is 32.5% from $0 to $120,000. Foreign residents tax rates 2023–24 Foreign resident tax rates 2023–24 Taxable income Tax on this income 0 – $120,000 32.5c for each $1 $120,001 – $180,000 $39,000 plus 37c for each $1 over $120,000 $180,001 and over $61,200 plus 45c for each $1 over $180,000

No contradiction. I am a resident for tax purposes, due to maintaining a domicile, and should I ever be questioned, I will say I am maintaining that domicile because I have every intention of returning to Australia to live. However, I really should be classified as a non resident, but due to loopholes in the current 90 year old laws, the ATO can't prove I am a non resident for reasons mentioned in a previous post. Thus, the government's need to move to a physical presence and time based tax residency model that does away with the loopholes.

For 90 years Australia's residency tax legislation has been based on whether or not an individual is "domiciled" in Australia, and whether or not that individual has an "intention" of returning. One can prove their intention to return by maintaining a property, a vehicle, utility bills, club memberships, family ties etc etc etc etc. The ATO can not prove you do not have an intention to return to Australia if you stick to your story that you do have an intention to return, particularly if you have left things in place for that return, such as the above. I, and some friends here, have maintained a "domicile" back in Australia. We haven't cut all ties to Australia except for income derived from Australia. We, and our various accountants, believe this is why we have never paid a cent of tax at the non resident rate, and it's due to the loopholes in the 90 year old tax laws. I, for one, can see why the government would want to change the current laws to laws based on physical presence and time, because just about every Aussie expat, all around the world, has been avoiding non resident tax for decades. Tell me how. You have no idea, do you? My income is derived from Australia. I pay resident tax on it, and have the benefit of the tax free threshold. I lodge tax returns each year. If I declare myself a non resident, I pay 32.%% from $0 to $120,000. That's a lot more tax than I am currently paying. Hence, keeping a "domicile" back in Australia, as well as all the other things mentioned. Then, it's up to the ATO to prove I have no intention of every returning to use them again. At law, it's very difficult to prove "intent" as it's in the person's mind. Thus, the inevitable change to a physical presence and time based model which does away with all the loopholes.

Where is the exemption for pensioners in the proposed changes? Where is a new tax free threshold for non resident tax brackets in the proposed changes so pensions are not taxed? As I have said before, pensioners may very well be collateral damage, and given they don't vote at election time, where's the political damage in lost votes if they do have 32.5% of their pension withheld in non resident tax?

Let me be very clear about it, and you can quote me on this. After the change of government, when the Assistant Treasurer met with expats in Singapore and said to then the proposed changes were in the government's "in tray" (link previously posted) I have always said it appears it's not IF, just WHEN. I have also gone on to say that even if Labor do not bring in the proposed changes, the next Liberal government will because they are the ones that proposed them, so once again, it's only a matter of time. We can speculate on "when" the current Labor government may or may not bring in the proposed changes, but you can quote me on saying that it is my opinion that they will eventually be passed, by either political party, at some stage in the future. As mentioned in a previous post, we saw how quick the changes to the Stage 3 tax cuts happened. The proposed changes to tax residency will have no where near the same media scrutiny and will be easily passed in by Labor because it's the opposition party that proposed them.

I would think the "discussion paper" was put forward back in 2021 by the Liberal government. This was the "consultation paper" in which stake holders could make final submissions. So, I am thinking it's closer than what you think. As for holding my breath about changes to tax legislation, what about those changes to the Stage 3 tax cuts? You wake up one morning, and suddenly the Stage 3 tax cuts have changed. That's how quick it can happen. Here's an article from today. "Everything on the table" in relation to changes to taxation. I'd say the proposed changes to tax residency legislation would be on the table as well. Stage 3 tax cuts: Allegra Spender, Bill Kelty call to overhaul system beyond income tax cuts (smh.com.au)

Why do you think the changes will not be passed? Who is going to object to the legislation? The previous Liberal government proposed them, and the current Labor government is running with them. I can't see it being an election issue, so who is going to stand in the way of them being passed?

I could do 45 days, and even cop 60 days, but 90 days a year is not good. Dated October 23. https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/business-travellers-tourists-could-be-caught-in-new-tax-rules-20231017-p5ecvy

Nope. Those on a full pension have posted. I am self funded and posted. I think you are the only member actively posting who is on a part pension. Are you considering some financial restructuring after the changes come in?

How can you lose land that you can never really own in Thailand? The purchase money just gets redistributed to Thai's, one way or another.

What about those that haven't lost their life savings in Thailand, are they "lucky" or something else????

1st Feb 21 is nearly 3 years ago. Do try to keep up with the latest news on the civil war in Myanmar to save embarrassing yourself anymore than you already have.

Hardly. Serious question.

Another useless troll post from you. That makes it 500 superfluous, redundant, and against forum rules posts you have made in reply to me. It may simply come down to who lives longer as to who will prevail.

Have you seen the price of houses and rents across the country lately?

Sure, so will I, as we will all have to. Nothing wrong with considering the options though.

Been posted many times before by me and others. Google it and you will see many pages from accounting firms, financial planning firms, also government websites about them. They are no secret.

Yet, you seem to think pensioners will get a free pass from the very same laws, despite no mention of an exemption.

All correct. Unfortunately, the unknown factor in the maths as to whether it's financially beneficial or not to return is the individual's life span. Return and pay all that money and die not long after serving the 2 years and it was wasted. Return and go on to live a very long life and it was financially beneficial to do so.

A friend of mine returned and bought a mobile home and cruised around Australia, sometimes with the Thai missus. It was his cost effective method for transport and accommodation in one, whilst filling his day and showing the missus his country. This may not be for everyone, but it is an option.

Myself, and some friends, and I am sure many others around the world who are self funded, lodge tax returns. We pay resident tax rates, due to the loopholes previously mentioned. That will change when the proposed changes are passed. We will be paying non resident tax rates at 32.5% from $0. Where this is relevant to pensioners and part pensioners is there are no exemptions for pensions in the proposed changes, nor any mention of a tax free threshold being added to non resident tax brackets, hence why I posted about it a long time ago, because a pension is deemed income, and is also taxable, and this caused some debate, which is still continuing.

Did you ever work out which pension you were on? One day it was a vet's pension, the next day it was the aged pension.

I agree with you 100%, however, I find it strange you do not accept that there could be another "checkmate" on the way, as we have been discussing. Australia is edging closer to $1 trillion debt. The money has to come from somewhere. They will be looking to implementing every "checkmate" they can.

Who are they "tracking down?" Those who lodge a tax return, they have them cold. They will get their non resident tax bill in the usual way. They will have pensioners cold as well. Immigration tells ATO and Centerlink an individual has been outside of Australia for 183 days and next fortnight the pension is reduced buy 32.5%. Where's the "tracking down" about this?