Kitsune

 

 

You make two assumptions:

1. That Thais lack critical thinking

2. That the rest of us also hold that same assumption.

The second assumption I know to be false. The first, I remain to be convinced. However, theBlether put forward the point that in his circle of friends, Thai people had demonstrated a level of success in business that required critical thinking, and had demonstrated entertaining intelligent dinner-table conversation. His point was based on recent experience. Yours appears to be based on repeating tired cliches and stereotypes.

But you seem to be relaxing your stance somewhat. Now you are saying that only poorly-educated Thais lack critical thinking. Presumably, like poorly-educated French, English and Scottish people.

SC

Making money is now a proof of critical thinking ?

How do you know these people did not attend international schools?

Yes like poor educated in ANY country, the problem here being that poor education is the norm (101th place for the 1st Thai university in world's rating)and no I don't base my opinion on cliches but on observations and facts which none of you have given here

University performance is very often linked to a reputation built over time, and funding. There is no doubt that the Thai University system is struggling to catch up with the highly funded and long established Western Universities. Obviously with your highly attuned critical thought process you had thought of that already.

My god I can't believe what I am reading

University performance is based on how the students are doing at exams, and that comes from what the teacher teaches them.

If you have never set foot in a Thai school or uni instead of saying rubbish read this excellent post about thai schools here

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/644276-an-education-in-fear/

Well that is my honest opinion, but I would love to be proven wrong and meet the cream of cream Thai dinner companions so we can debate Obama's position regarding Syria while sipping on Grappa.

 

 

You make two assumptions:

1. That Thais lack critical thinking

2. That the rest of us also hold that same assumption.

The second assumption I know to be false. The first, I remain to be convinced. However, theBlether put forward the point that in his circle of friends, Thai people had demonstrated a level of success in business that required critical thinking, and had demonstrated entertaining intelligent dinner-table conversation. His point was based on recent experience. Yours appears to be based on repeating tired cliches and stereotypes.

But you seem to be relaxing your stance somewhat. Now you are saying that only poorly-educated Thais lack critical thinking. Presumably, like poorly-educated French, English and Scottish people.

SC

Making money is now a proof of critical thinking ?

How do you know these people did not attend international schools?

Yes like poor educated in ANY country, the problem here being that poor education is the norm (101th place for the 1st Thai university in world's rating)and no I don't base my opinion on cliches but on observations and facts which none of you have given here

Top loader or Front loader ?

top loader

Get gravity and temperature working for you

Invest in a front loader

No Thai people like anyone are perfectly capable of critical thinking if they get the adequate education.

Some international schools excepted it is just not on the program

Ask any Thai school instead of shooting the messenger

Wait, you can't ! You're not here !

I am here.

Excellent so you know what's your program today : You go around schools in your neighborhood (loads of calories to be burnt with this heat ) and ask them

You're still working under the assumptions that Thais lack critical thinking, and that we agree on that.

You are wrong on the second assumption, and you have not made a case to support the first one.

SC

Sorry you lost me ...............What's the second assumption ?

It is not something you inherit at birth or from critical gene or DNA.

If your environment is doing everything to prevent you from be opinionated, you simply won't get it

No Thai people like anyone are perfectly capable of critical thinking if they get the adequate education.

Some international schools excepted it is just not on the program

Ask any Thai school instead of shooting the messenger

Wait, you can't ! You're not here !

I am here.

Excellent so you know what's your program today : You go around schools in your neighborhood (loads of calories to be burnt with this heat ) and ask them

Well, I'm sure you know theBlether's dinner companions better than he does, from your deep insight into Thai culture and their personalities.

Whenever I was away on business with a Thai colleague, I never found the conversation dull, but that is probably because I fitted in well, lacking in sophistication and interest in world affairs. I don't think I once considered turning the course of conversation to philosophy or high art.

SC

May I point out that it was a question ? (does money gives you critical thinking)

I am sure his friends have many qualities, but in his lengthy description none of them related to critical thinking.

Personally I have a very good Thai friend whose parents were from Vietnam and he calls himself, in a joking fashion a farrang. We meet for a couple of beers twice a week and he talks about Thai politics, religion ,news etc etc for example the farrari driving cop killer was a subject he brought up and I value his opinion but we sometimes disagree as all people do. We still stay friends though even after heated debates.

The man is retired he owns two hardware stores run by his son's and alway's insists on buying the beer.

I mention this because he never asks me for anything only friendship, he speaks some English and I speak some Thai so we can communicate well.

He's not well educated but self educated in the way the world works, he loves reading and watching English language world news (his words).

He's a mate, when a pretty girl walks by we stop talking, smile at her, we smile at each other and "say what were we talking about". Just like mates the world over.

Yes he's a farang, his education might have been compensated by his Vietnamese parents.

He was born in Thailand, his parents were Vietnamese, my parents are Scottish but I am definately English as I was born there ( I am sorry to say )

So, you are saying his parents did not take any part in his education ?

Top loader or Front loader ?

Personally I have a very good Thai friend whose parents were from Vietnam and he calls himself, in a joking fashion a farrang. We meet for a couple of beers twice a week and he talks about Thai politics, religion ,news etc etc for example the farrari driving cop killer was a subject he brought up and I value his opinion but we sometimes disagree as all people do. We still stay friends though even after heated debates.

The man is retired he owns two hardware stores run by his son's and alway's insists on buying the beer.

I mention this because he never asks me for anything only friendship, he speaks some English and I speak some Thai so we can communicate well.

He's not well educated but self educated in the way the world works, he loves reading and watching English language world news (his words).

He's a mate, when a pretty girl walks by we stop talking, smile at her, we smile at each other and "say what were we talking about". Just like mates the world over.

Yes he's a farang, his education might have been compensated by his Vietnamese parents.

I'll never live here full time. I'll always be in that massive brigade that wanders in and out of Thailand when it suits us. By the sounds of it making the decision to live full time in Thailand has made many of you miserable.

Forgive me if I pass on the opportunity to join you in wallowing in your misery, I want to enjoy life.

That's news ! ...I thought we were just wrong or racist and our "misery" imaginary

I was out the other week with a Doctor, who owns several clinics and pharmacies, as well as two extraordinarily busy hotels, with plans to build a third this year, the other guests included a Phuket property developer who was educated at the University of Hawaii. She effectively retired from the day to day operation of her business to raise 4 adopted kids at the age of 27. With us was the ex-wife of a British commercial pilot who is now a British passport holder and spends her time flitting back and forth from the UK to Thailand as it suits her. She's the " lady that lunch " type. Heiress to a family fortune built by her Chinese father.

Also in the company was a business woman who owns several shops in Chiang Mai, and a university lecturer. So how about you? Can you beat that? Are you a successful independent lady, business owner, degree qualified? According to you, all of these people are completely clueless to World affairs. You see, how can they be? They are Thai? and according to you that disqualifies them from original thought. Only fit to believe the propaganda forced down their throats by central government eh?

Quite frankly, you don't have a clue.

You are mentioning financial success, apparently it means everything to you, but what does it have to do with the fact they did not learn critical thinking ?

I have never said they cannot KNOW about current affairs, especially the one who travel, but it does not mean they have their own thought an opinions about it ?

As Amycat was suggesting,people of her own "class" (ie with money) have very little understanding of current affairs or no more than poor people.

They usually repeat what you say to please you or try to avoid the topic or say something completely random.

Pool is a great convo starter.... You can carry a convo about pool while playing pool for a good while..

IT is an easy topic, latest gadgets and electronics, clubs, food, social problems, politics, movies, celeb gossip if its a girl..

It might surprise some people to find out that Thai's are part of the human race.... The similarities far outweigh the differences...

Cool!

I'll try crochet as convo starter next time!

Most Thai men like Football and Beer so they are good subjects. My Brother-in- Law likes talking about Chickens and his Yellow Bus and my Neighbour likes talking about when he worked in the Middle East. Never really had a problem in this way.

A friend of mine who speaks Thai pretty well always told me that they can hold a 2 hour conversation about something as simple as a soup spoon.

On the other hand the one who do have a different view/opinion don't get to live very long, so that might explain the spoon conversation ...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/27/murder-environmentalist-thailand-failure

My neighbor does not have furniture, his family is in rags, kids don't not eat everyday but a brand new SUV is proudly parked outside the house, in replacement of another one which was not big enough.

Off course it also had to be bigger than the other neighbor that got his last month.

It's the new competition in our tiny soi : Who has the bigger SUV?

Needless to say it's hell when 2 SUV are trying to drive through

When a population is poorly educated, ( deliberately) taught to think along rigorous lines and forbidden to ask questions, or even be critical of leadership upon pain of incarceration... what on earth is one going to talk about with them?

Beside, aren't the majority of foreigners here to exploit local poverty for sexual satisfaction?

( well OK, personal body servants, too. )

Except the sex exploitation line I agree with you.

I think you meant the majority of TV are here to have sex with locals

Loads of expats are just here with their family, sent by their company, a couple of years in BKK, after KL, Bangladesh, India, and Korea, etc

When a population is poorly educated, ( deliberately) taught to think along rigorous lines and forbidden to ask questions, or even be critical of leadership upon pain of incarceration... what on earth is one going to talk about with them?

Totally agree with you but when it's me saying it, it's "thai bashing" or "racist garbage"

Hearing my MIL's 3 hour monologue, I am glad I have a poor understanding of Thai

Same here, I do understand some of the conversations here, and I am glad I can pull up the excuse of poor language skill not to participate

They have access to the same outlets we have, newspapers, internet, and TV. There are some issues where the media controls stifle discussion as we know, but reporting of international news and the like is of a decent standard.

You seem to have taken a flier at this without thinking. Yes there are some Thai people who have poor access to media, and there will be plenty who are disinterested, but there are plenty more who are just as interested in world news and the like as the rest of us.

Access to the media means NOTHING when you dont have the critical tools to use & understand them

Next you will be telling us the Yellow shirt and Red shirt shenannagngs over the past years was just decided over a Leo or two, "come on somchai lets wear a coloured shirt and go demonstrate"....yeah, nothing to do with the media eh!!

Im am not saying that Thai people cannot use social networks and alike to organize demos

I'm saying that using an iPad to play Jewels or Car racing won't give you a better insight of the world

They have access to the same outlets we have, newspapers, internet, and TV. There are some issues where the media controls stifle discussion as we know, but reporting of international news and the like is of a decent standard.

You seem to have taken a flier at this without thinking. Yes there are some Thai people who have poor access to media, and there will be plenty who are disinterested, but there are plenty more who are just as interested in world news and the like as the rest of us.

Access to the media means NOTHING when you dont have the critical tools to use & understand them

I wanted to "LIKE" this twice, but cannot do! I would like to "Like" it even 3 times! I believe this is the main problem, with "communications" between most locals and us. Note I did not say ALL. Overall, lacking this, means most communications beyond the superficial level, can never get beyond the superficial level, no matter what the subject is. At least to us Western people or thinkers.

Thanks Amy, I "liked" your comment too !

As westerners, if we had a half decent education, we have learn to develop our own ideas, and have critical thinking.

Medias have a long history of deceit, lies, pretend etc.. We have learnt to use them rather than to be used by them.

Not in the program here.

An iPad supposedly gives you the type of access to information, Kings used to have centuries ago.

What good is it when 99% of your use is to play Jewels (for girls), Car race or watch iron man III ( boys), or go on Facebook?

They have access to the same outlets we have, newspapers, internet, and TV. There are some issues where the media controls stifle discussion as we know, but reporting of international news and the like is of a decent standard.

You seem to have taken a flier at this without thinking. Yes there are some Thai people who have poor access to media, and there will be plenty who are disinterested, but there are plenty more who are just as interested in world news and the like as the rest of us.

Access to the media means NOTHING when you dont have the critical tools to use & understand them

You're digging an even deeper hole. Thai bashing of the first order, out and out racism.

Incidentally your posting style put's me in mind of Aneliane.

How can it be Thai bashing when I am actually looking for excuses to explain their lack of knowledge.

This is Thai excusing to the contrary

I'm not accusing people, just describing the system, you seem to ignore

Who is Anelaine?

How about family?......is that not important in Thailand?

I think it was 69% of husbands and 59% of wives that are unfaithful here.

Obviously divorce being not popular, you can imagine the atmosphere in most Thai families : lies, deceits, betray, lack of trust, of respect etc

Oh and they stay because of face & money of course

These types of settings are disastrous for the kids

I've talked about such topics as my Thai wife's father who was once a policeman back in WW2 time and was a member (verified) of the Thai resistance to the Japanese occupation .

He had a certificate given to his group after the war by the Allies for helping to rescue pilots shot down during raids on Japanese targets in Thailand.

I've talked to her about her first husband, an Aussie who left her with no money and 3 kids to raise. He went back to Australia and eventually drank himself to death.

I got her a copy of the Australian Police death report, so she could legally get him declared dead and her marriage dissolved with the Thai government.

Or her uncle, the monk, who chose to die from cancer, rather than get the treatment he simply couldn't afford because that would put his family into a financial crises and it would mean they had to sell there rice land and not be able to send the kids to school.

Little things like that,

No, I've never had any serious talks with a Thai. We have nothing in common to talk about.

These are personal accounts.

Once these issues are solved, what do you talk about?

Thai people have limited access to the world news, politic, culture, current affairs etc, simply because they don't learn to have an interest in those

Racist garbage.

Where are they supposed to learn this?

Certainly not through media (very bad position in terms of freedom of press in the world) nor in school that teaches according to the government same line