Thait Spot

 

I'll make it clear that, perhaps like you, I dont want Thailand to be a one party state and agree that the opposition does need a reform. However, that doesn't legitimize how the maladministration is operating. The failure to reform the opposition shouldn't give the government free reign and ability to plunder the state coffers. If anything, as Abhisit has been calling, the PTP should be working for the country starting with it's own reform by appointing appropriate candidates and step out of Thaksin's shadows. But clearly there hasnt been a speck of sincerity to the country shown by Yingluck and her cohorts.

The Democrats debate with intelligence and data gathering, which is why they believe they can expose the government in Parliament. The PTP knows this which is why they silence the opposition time and time again. Compared to the Red Shirt MPs, they did nothing that came close to the effort put forth by the Democrats in informing the public of government issues. Instead, they (Red Shirts leaders now MPs) took to the streets and bullied their way into position of power. When was the last time you heard Jatuporn came out with statistics and fact finding against the Democrats. No, he's not going appeal to the logos but the pathos of his audiences. Clearly, the Democrat MPs have better work ethics.

Back then, people talked about the Democrats bedding with the military and how evil it was to be their puppet. Now look at affair the military is having the PTP and previois critics stay silent. There will be no coup because of this arrangement but yet Red shirts and PTP keep using it to keep the flames burning. If there is any coup to be done, it would most likely be to get rid of the opposition. Giles Ungpakorn wrote a decent blog about this.

I've already mention the ineptitude of the PM and her continuous dodging of state issues. If you want to support Yingluck and how well she's doing, go ahead and entertain us by defending her absence from parliament and her 5th cabinet reshuffle. Of course, you'll mention her popularity but that is irrelevant unless you want to argue that it is. Popularity doesn't make her a good PM, it just has to do with how the press portrays her, especially in Matichon and Khaosod. Which brings me to my next point.

When was the last you see Matichon or Khaosod be critical of the PM? They only publish and spin good things about her and her brother. For example, when the country singer Sayan Sanya was hospitalized, they made sure they portray Thaskin as a nice guy. The rice scheme and other detrimental news gets the blind eye. As you were talking about how these two news sources were being treated unfairly, do you think they would give a fair account of the Democrat rallies, especially if something happens with the red shirts?

To conclude, PTP needs to start working for the whole nation instead of their personal interest if it wants to convince people that they are currently Thailand's best government. That of course ideal and far from being pragmatic. By the way Abhisit NEVER called people uneducated. He said people who 'did not know' are gettin manipulated.

 

 

 

You calling the Pueah Thai to reform first is quite typical. Why should the Puaeh Thai reform itself when their approach has worked in every single general election since 2001?

The DP has not been able to win a general election since 1992 (with 21% of the vote) - it is the DP what seems to be doing something wrong there as it just cannot manage to attract voters. It really doesn't matter what you say here how bad PT is, or how bad Thaksin is. You do not need to convince me - you need to convince the common Thai voter.

 

The common Thai voter though will not be convinced by being called Kwai, or being accused of being manipulated, or by bullets (as in 2009 and 2010), but finding a way how to build trust. After 2010 this will be very difficult for the DP, especially when the head of the party is seen by the voter base of the PT as the person responsible for the dead. And that voter base is quite obviously larger than the DP's voter base. Logically, certain decisions over leadership changes should be made. But they aren't.

 

The strategy of the DP is clearly not working, and hasn't since before Thaksin entered politics. Don't blame the DP's inability to communicate with voters on Thaksin, or the present government, or the voters themselves - it already could not do that long before. It is not the voters job to learn to understand a political party - it is the job of the political party to find the right way of communication.

The DP has a structural problem, and has had that for a long time.

 

And as to corruption - do you remember why the Chuan 1 government fell - because of the Sor Por Kor 401 corruption scandal. Do you remember who was mostly responsible for this? Suthep.

 

Maybe the DP should start cleaning its own house if it wants to become a viable alternative at the ballot box. It's been long overdue.

Nick "I'm not red" Nostitz.

How many votes did the Dems get st the last election?

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I'm a magician. I can make the dollar rise against the baht all by myself.

 

All I have to do is convert a lot of dollars to baht and sure enough the next day the exchange rate will be more baht to the dollar. 

Eh?!

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Down marches the SET

Down marches the Baht

Etc.

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The sugar cane farmers will be next. The 20% drop in Brazilian Real will see to that.

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What goes around comes around. The hunters are now becoming the hunted.

 

Hardly. A bunch of  hired thugs  is hardly frontier justice. Rather, it speaks to the continued use of  devious means by the opponents of the legally elected government.

The red shirts came to intimidate like football thugs. They got a thick lip.

Next.

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What next.... protests about the fall in the price of gold?

The issue is that when you buck the rice market, every other market wants to be treated the same. They will view it as only fair.

Gold? There are mines in Thailand - Loei for example. They also grow quite a lot of rubber there.

There have been protests about the cost of oil and gas products too!!!

With the government hopeful that it can borrow T2.2B, the last thing it will do is to bend to other farming interests as the dreaded Moody's is watching in the wings.

There is also a lot of rubber growing up in the north and north-east

How many Shinawatra family in that photo?

Oooohhhh.........rubber farmers in the south complaining ???....does anyone think this govt. cares??

Rubber is a national crop.

Read the article again and note the locations of the protests.

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The problem is that when your economic policies make you a net importer in terms of balance of payments, a weak baht costs the tax payer more and reduces GDP

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Sadly for all of you, she is the most popular PM for years and possibly the least destructive.

Her party also wins elections and has a mandate.

 

The country is far better in the last two years than it was in the previous six.

 

 

 

 

 

Mandate? 4 Seasons?

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"About 200,000-400,000 tonnes of rice in the government’s stockpiles will be packed in five-kg packages to be sold at Bt85 per unit, he said."

 

Have i done my sums wrong, but isn't 5kg at THB 85 = THB17,000 per tonne?!

 

Comes down to definition ...

 

There is a 'metric' tonne and an 'imperial' tonne

 

A 'US' Gallon and a 'Gallon' that the rest of the world use to measure a liquid.

 

 

Metric tonne

Imperial ton

US ton 2000 pounds

UK ton 2240 pounds

Metric Tonne 1000kg or 2205 pounds

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Wait a minute.... The article specifically explains that the speaker intended to continue or begin debate on the matters but only if the opposition would sit down and follow the rules standard for human debate. That means sitting down an waiting your turn to voice your opinion, not standing up and yelling or booing. It sounds to me like they were the ones who wanted to obstruct the debate. If it was so important to them and their cause was just then why yell out and stand around and obstruct. they should have sat down when the speaker said to, then when he stopped the debate after they followed the rules of parliamentary debate, everyone would have seen the corruption you all speak of. You people should pay attention to the facts of the article.

Good luck.

If you have another article with the events as you described, please share a link, because there is nothing in the article that corresponds with your "facts".

"Scuffles broke out after 57 members of the opposition Democrat party stood up simultaneously to voice their objections to the plans and refused to be silenced by the Speaker."

It is clear leading into the story that the problems started AFTER the 57 members of one side stood up in protest. It later infers an attempt/s by the speaker to continue the debate under the prescribed rules of debate ONLY if the protesters would sit down and follow the rules of representation.

And no, I do not think there was a clear corruption in the process by the speaker.

He has majority, yes, but everything seems normal in this case especially the reaction of the opposition to open talks on sensitive matters. The only thing abnormal is the commentary because it is emotional and misguided therefore ineffective. Thailand needs solutions, not fuel for the fire.

I've always felt that using selected facts is just as bad a lying through your teeth

About 15 million tonnes of rice remain in the government's stockpiles.

was able to sell only 30,000 tonnes of rice to two traders at this year's third auction

At that rate they will have sold the 2012 harvest by 2052 and will have 600 million tonnes left to sell.

All the press this morning seems to support the Reuters statements

Right, because the press never reports on anything without first getting all the facts.

The Thai economy CONTRACTED 0.3% - that's clear enough for me.

http://eng.nesdb.go.th/Portals/0/eco_datas/account/qgdp/data2_13/BookQGDP2-2013.pdf

Above is the actual report. GDP grew by 2.8%.

I believe Reuters and the BBC

This is from Bloomberg "Thailand’s SET Index (SET) retreated 2.8 percent, heading for its lowest close since December. India’s S&P BSE Sensex lost 0.3 percent, extending a drop from its July 23 high to 10 percent. Indonesia’s record current-account deficit and Thailand’s recession spurred concern that capital outflows from emerging markets will accelerate."

The markets clearly believe it too

wordchild is correct. The (Thai) authors of the article have defined slower growth as a recession. Their definition of recession is incorrect.

Reuters said "Thailand's economy shrank"

"The 0.3 percent contraction in Southeast Asia's second-largest economy"

Is this not clear enough?

Per investopedia: "The technical indicator of a recession is two consecutive quarters of negative economic growth as measured by a country's gross domestic product (GDP)" http://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/recession.asp

Thailand still experienced growth, just not as much as forecast. Is that clear enough for you?

The Thai economy CONTRACTED 0.3% - that's clear enough for me.

wordchild is correct. The (Thai) authors of the article have defined slower growth as a recession. Their definition of recession is incorrect.

Reuters said "Thailand's economy shrank"

"The 0.3 percent contraction in Southeast Asia's second-largest economy"

Is this not clear enough?

except that the economy did not shrink it just grew less!

All the press this morning seems to support the Reuters statements

Let's get back on topic here. As a supposed journalist that should be quite simple.

This ISN'T about what the Dems did or didn't do.

This IS about freedom of speech and the ability to criticise the Prime Minister in what claims to be a democratic nation without recrimination.

If you truly believe that the PM is beyond reproach then your previous comments on the LM laws are pure hypocrisy.

Do i post in Swahili, Sami or Tamil?

How many times do i have to write in *plain English* that i do not agree with the government threatening to file legal cases against critics of the PM?

It is also about freedom of speech when the opposition on a regular base verbally attacks two newspapers (one of whom articles are linked to in this forum here as well), making it physically so dangerous for their reporters to enter their public stages that they have to remove any ID showing their affiliation. This is part of the present context here.

Not one of you has criticized the Democrat Party and the other opposition groups for that. Is that a truth too inconvenient for you?

This is what we are discussing - "Mr. Prompong Nopparit said the accusation made by some people that the Thai government is unconcerned over fates of Thai nationals caught up in Egypt unrest is totally untrue. "Ms. Yingluck is in fact very concerned about the matter," he said"

Below is your contribution to the thread:

Post #36 - woolly statement suggesting that this is "well way beyond what freedom of expression generally permits"

Post #39 - irrelevant statements about other supposed remarks that you have greatly exaggerated to assist your case

Post #42 - blame the law, the Dems, the coup and the military for PTP's application of the law - well done!!

Post #43 - you say "over reaction of the government" but then try to justify it

Post #47 - you say "attempts to overthrow the government by any means" any means excluding a coup

Post #50 - "quite clearly that i do not agree with the cyber act" apart from in your other posts

Post #62 - quite a rant - but not keeping to the subject of the Egypt evacuation

Post #63 - "But as long as the government is just issuing those lame threats and doesn't follow through" now you're into complete fiction

Post #66 - Ahh but the Dems (part 324)

Post #76 - Freudian slip? "Your rant and rave about my reporting on 2010 (which really isn't the topic of this threat)" Now what's the topic again?

Post #82 - Ahh but the Dems (again) and a dig at my linguistic skills.

As a supposed Amglo Saxon I thought I'd help a bit with your "plain English" - see below::

Do i post in Swahili, Sami or Tamil?

How many times do I have to write in *plain English* that i do not agree with the government threatening to file legal cases against critics of the PM?

It is also about freedom of speech when the opposition on a regular base verbally attacks two newspapers (one of whom articles are linked to in this forum here as well), making it physically so dangerous for their reporters to enter their public stages that they have to remove any ID showing their affiliation. This is part of the present context here.

Not one of you has criticized the Democrat Party and the other opposition groups for that. Is that a truth too inconvenient for you?

Dear Democrat party,

.... you have illegally taken over Suvarnabumi airport a couple of years ago, and the affected parties haven't gotten their rightful compensation paid yet. So how dare you speak about Human rights,

<snip for brevity>

At the risk of being boring, that was five years ago (not "a couple"), and it was the PAD (not the Democrat Party), so actually someone totally different.

Just trying to keep the facts straight.

If you are trying to keep the facts straight it's probably best not to suggest the PAD and the Democrat Party were "totally different".They were not, indeed were inextricably linked in terms of objectives and policy.After the PAD seized the prime ministers office they were visited by both Korn and Abhisit.Korn wrote that the demonstrators were "pure in their beliefs" and called their actions "the seeds of true democracy". Abhisit's foreign minister, Kasit, spoke on the PAD stage after the seizure of Suvarnabhumi Airport where he said the economic damage from the airport closure was "Thaksin's and the government's fault".Both Anand Panyarachun and Abhisit attended the funeral of a PAD terrorist Police Lt Col Methee Chatmontri who had blown himself up transporting a bomb to the offices of Chat Thai.After the Democrat Party gained power it began to distance itself from the PAD.The links are beginning to strengthen again now with the Democrat Party increasingly dependent on street activity given there is little chance the Thai people will elect them to power.

How extraordinary. Abhisit had a Foreign Minister before he was PM?

Good job your list doesn't include biasing a report or failing to report the holistic events in an attempt to create a false perception of a situation or event.

As for the last little bit, there is a jokes and pub humour thread on the site somewhere. It is quite laughable that you lecture us on context when not one bit of your reporting in 2010 was ever in context. We don't have to accuse you of being 'red' or 'biased', those words are conjured up in the minds of anyone that reads your work that has even the slightest knowledge of what actually goes on in this country. The rest of your post that is simply another 'but but but post'. I don't see anyone on here defending the actions of the Democrats, they are discussing the actions of a group who are currently infringing democracy and freedom of speech, the PTP. Instead of publicly condemning that yourself you whine and moan that the Democrats have done things in the past. Does that make it OK for the reds and PTP to do what they have been doing since 2010? Does it make it OK for them to do what they are doing now? Can you actually condemn their actions without saying 'But the Democrats did this..', doesn't it make every journalistic nerve in your body shiver when you hear Yingluck saying to the Army 'your job is to protect the nation', yet those that tried in 2010 face criticism at best and charges at worst.

Professional honour in journalism implies truth and objectivity and a determination to ensure the complete picture is shown to the public whenever possible. You put your work up for public viewing so it is up for public assessment and I have given you the benefit of the doubt and read a lot of it. It is biased, it is not objective and it is written in such a way as to offer a perception of events that does not reflect real life occurrences and their motivations ie...false. Go back to New Mandela where you can tell people whatever you want to and have them believe everything is as you say, and avoid places like this, where the majority of the readership can see their own BS detectors flashing red every time you put fingers to keyboard. You had every opportunity to position yourself as a journo that could have told the real story of events in 2010 to a world that needed to know, but you chose not to do that, so live with it.

Very funny you asking me to "Go back to New Mandela" (it's New Mandala, by the way, not Mandela), and stop posting here, in a thread that deals with "freedom of speech"...

Your rant and rave about my reporting on 2010 (which really isn't the topic of this threat), i am not commenting on other than that it is not my job to report what you would like to read, but what i see happening (and you quite obviously haven't). Reporting isn't the X-Factor, or some other talent show where the public decides, and you can decide to vote somebody out because it isn't following your opinion on things. Tough luck, and i don't care.

You also seem to have missed completely that i have stated that i do not agree with the government's threat's of filing charges against critics.

And yet again, you seem to have completely missed (by purpose?) that i have not just written about the Democrat Party then, but also now - such as their speakers attacking verbally on their stages two newspapers, making their events very dangerous places for reporters of those two papers. That's happening right now - another "group who currently infringing democracy and freedom of speech" . Any comment on that?

Let's get back on topic here. As a supposed journalist that should be quite simple.

This ISN'T about what the Dems did or didn't do.

This IS about freedom of speech and the ability to criticise the Prime Minister in what claims to be a democratic nation without recrimination.

If you truly believe that the PM is beyond reproach then your previous comments on the LM laws are pure hypocrisy.

Whatever they do, do not call the police!

With similar lightening speed to that demonstarted by their efforts in solving the Ekayuth case, the police have altready determined that it was not political.

They're sharp these boys!!!

If You can't win and election

the Goverment installed by Military coup is unpopular both at home and abroad

Then this is your only recourse. Too Bad Foreign Diplomats don't vote in Thai elections

How embarrassing for the Dems to have to do this....

I seriously doubt they are embarrased by it at all, they have no shame ...

I would think it's quite normal for the opposition to explain why they oppose what has been labeled as a "political reform" when we all know that the PTP/UDD want to be like Cambodia with DL as HS.

Hell! We could soon be looking at the offspring with Shinawatra/Hun Sen DNA!!!!

Bill Gates & Nelson Mandela & Hugo Chavez would also be nice !

Isn't Hugo dead?

Maybe he was reincarnated as a buffalo