northernjohn

Come now Pepper, you really think that a man palm oil deep in corruption should be the man championing an anti corruption movement??

I wish Abhisit would start to open his mouth more and start projecting himself he's not doing enough to enhance the democrats position, is this a calculated move on his part, or is he just not the man to lead the democrats into the future, with the PTP getting a political kicking and the "alleged" decline of their support, this is an ideal time for the Dems to capitalize this, and win the entire Nation over.

Hold another snap election and see IF all that's being said here in that the PTP are a spent force, then let the population decide if they are, or not, and if they get beaten by the majority vote, then that's the positive side and then the reforms can begin, by the ones who have been elected..

IF however the PTP win, then the losing side have to accept it, and start moving forwards too..you can't keep taking your ball away from the game just because it's not going in your favour.

Come now Pepper, you really think that a man palm oil deep in corruption should be the man championing an anti corruption movement??

I didn't say that anywhere in my post, I said it was going to be impossible to get this government to step aside when they have so much to hide.... They would have to be FORCED out..... too much to incriminate them once all the numbers can be crunched regarding various schemes, and I am sure you know what I mean by that.

While you mention it... AV and the Dems are deffo sitting on the sidelines, they are not stupid, they don't want to (or even need to) undermine the PDRC, it would only work against them to be seen swinging around.

They have already leaked out hints that they are more than happy to contest a fresh election so long as there can first be some type of reforms that will lead to dire consequences for any party caught in breech of rules that give them an advantage.

Offering money for votes.

Offering financial bonuses to village chiefs or village funds in return for pressuring village voters which way to vote.

Populist policies to acquire votes from a certain sector of the electorate (eg.. rice farmers) where only 'non-financial' assistance can only be promoted, 'financial' assistance should be banned in a campaign. (eg.. we will give you lots of money for your crop).

Intimidation in the form of, 'if you don't vote for us, this will happen to you (insert very negative consequence)'.

Any party in breech should have their candidate immediately suspended and charged 'criminally'.

Basically in a week the EC can have these new conditions rammed into place and nobody can really argue against them without revealing their intention to campaign in an undemocratic way.

If the Dems came into an election that was truly 'free and fair' they would win by a country mile. They would certainly have a massive popular voted majority.

Don't worry about the Dems, they know what they are doing.

An election that was truly free and fair. The PTP would not have any idea how to campaign. I agree 100% with you let the Democrats sit on the side lines. Any thing they do or say right or wrong would be seen as a straw to the PTP to grasp on to and deflect attention from their wrong doings.

It is pretty bad when they have to sink to the PM crying and saying you are picking on me rather than defend her actions.

Her Caddy the clone brother is even admitting she is wrong but it is not her fault she has been given bad advice from bad advisor's.

Shouldn't the EC be concentrating on organising an election? They appear to have a lot of time on their hands lately, I'd hate to think they were deliberately wasting time on other "ventures"

It would be nice if they could arrange an honest election. One looking to serve the people in the most efficient way they could. I believe the PTP is not cooperating with them on this.

Not sure if an election under the present circumstances would help any thing. They do not have enough representatives to fill the seats and the last election with less than 20% voting did not produce any more members so would they be able to get enough out of the next election. Money down the tube that could go to pay the farmers.

And the PTP knows this. But doesn't care as long as they Thaksin can hold on to a vestige of power they are happy.\

Are you?

The Nation is trying to push the PDRC agenda even at this late stage. The way out of the impasse is simple: An election took place on 2nd Feb and most MP's were duly and fairly elected. This process needs to be completed and a duly elected government formed according to the wishes of the Thai people. That democratically elected government can then decide on the country's priorities.

Are you new to Thailand or some thing. The Thai people never get a chance to vote for what they want. They are given false promises and money to vote for certain people. They are never told the truth about what these people are really going to do.

Ask the rice farmers the new car buyers the kids in school.

What is needed is a reform that if these type of people do run they carry out there promises if the government can not pay the money they dig it out of their own pockets.

If you want to have an honest government you need to have honest candidates and an informed public. Most of the population has not received an education that can understand how easy it is for the politicians to say one thing do another and blame it on a third party. They are in short not being informed just lied to.

I thought Yingluck was the chair of the National Anti-Corruption Commission. I could be wrong on that. But I am not wrong in saying that while they have been in existence corruption in Thailand during the year 2013 has increased 2%. Not to sure I would trust them to be looking for the best solution to the impasse here in Thailand. More like covering their ass.

In short your idea of the people getting what they wish for in an election is pie in the sky. They would have a better chance of getting 10 baht under their pillow by leaving a tooth they lost for the tooth fairy to exchange it. Or getting what they want under the Christmas tree.

Are they growing palm trees in the Chiang Mai area for the oil. Seems to me their would need to be a nearby industry to process it and transport it.

I recall years ago we were driving by a palm oil factory down south and there was a huge line up of oil bearing trucks waiting to get into it.

There's seem to be a misconception by some people in Thailand that you can do whatever you like , this couldn't be further from the truth, everyone has a right , that right is freedom, without harassment, violence , intimidation or any other type of weird thing that some people seem to think is okay, judges are on the no no list, no where in a Democratic world would you find judges being threatened , when or if the reforms get moving ,the law covering these offences needs to be upgraded, lets get this clear, in a democracy you do not cramp someone else's space. Respect is the word

You forgot to mention the right to vote without intimidation.

... and the "respect my vote" even AFTER it has been counted.

A couple of months ago " Head office" must have published a reasonable list of things the red trolls could say in respomnse to most political news items or anti-govt postings. But lately, one by one they seem to be dropping out of the trolls postings, either because, circumstances have overtaken that response, no one believes them any more or the reds are alienating everyone, including their own. The trolls seem now down mainly to two old chestnuts 1. "Respect my vote" which from a demcratic point of view, I do have some sympathy for; and. 2. "Suthip did it first/ last week/ last night" etc etc, which is always just twaddle & they are the only ones who still believe it. So they are down to just one platform now???

You are correct and it is a pretty shaky platform when you can sell your vote.

There's seem to be a misconception by some people in Thailand that you can do whatever you like , this couldn't be further from the truth, everyone has a right , that right is freedom, without harassment, violence , intimidation or any other type of weird thing that some people seem to think is okay, judges are on the no no list, no where in a Democratic world would you find judges being threatened , when or if the reforms get moving ,the law covering these offences needs to be upgraded, lets get this clear, in a democracy you do not cramp someone else's space. Respect is the word

You forgot to mention the right to vote without intimidation.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

and the right to go shopping without harassment or kidnapping.. and the right to move freely in BKK... and the fundamental RIGHT you mention - right to vote FREELY and without INTIMIDATION that is the foundation of any democracy - how about the judges protecting THOSE rights???

Just as soon as they get rid of the Shinawatra red shirt goons and Thaksin loses the area code for Thailand. Then clean up the police department.

Or were you talking about the fundamental rights the red shirts allowed in Bangkok in 2010 ones like try to burn the city down invade hospitals. They are the same red shirts we have today.

Even here in Chiang Mai we had the major shopping malls shut down by them.

There's seem to be a misconception by some people in Thailand that you can do whatever you like , this couldn't be further from the truth, everyone has a right , that right is freedom, without harassment, violence , intimidation or any other type of weird thing that some people seem to think is okay, judges are on the no no list, no where in a Democratic world would you find judges being threatened , when or if the reforms get moving ,the law covering these offences needs to be upgraded, lets get this clear, in a democracy you do not cramp someone else's space. Respect is the word

You forgot to mention the right to vote without intimidation.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Bingo you hit the jackpot with that one.

Part of the reform in the election system will be to allow each voter privacy.

No body standing there making sure they vote as the village head man instructs them to.

Not that it will be that big a problem as vote buying will carry severe penalties for the seller and the buyer.

All Hail Suthep for the courage to push for freedom for the individual.

If u can intimidate the Justice system, then u can intimidate the law, and if the authorities allow that to happen, u will create a situation where lawlessness will rule and the kingdom will be destroyed for many years, and many will die. Including your children and the people you love.

Half the country doesn't appear to trust these courts

The corrupt half.

For good reason.

They just lost access to 2.2 trillion baht.

Surely head CMPO Pol. Captain Chalerm with his half billion war room internet watchdog will be able to tell us within minutes the full details on the posters with the nice pseudo name?

If they throw in a bottle of ear medicine I am sure he could come up with the name.

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

....when will this travesty end......???

When Yingluck leaves for her new home in Dubai

....when will this travesty end......???

When snow falls in Bangkok in April!

See above answer.

What did they actually do?

Sent from somewhere in the Pacific

The only thing I can think of is they gave Chalerm a stage to perform his Jutaporn comedy act.

^ While winds are low, air movement does happen. You can see the 'blanket' extend through the larger region. And in late Feb or March it begins covering Chiang Mai. Local sources do contribute of course. I'm not sure you can blame any particular country, it truly is a region wide problem.

Well it defiantly is not nice.

I watch a lot of Chanel NewsAsia and a lot of cities make Chiang Mai look good.

If any one has respiratory problems it is not the place to be from ball park mid February to mid April. If you don't it is not really that bad. The only reason some say it is bad is because they read some figures that said it was bad. They were OK with it up until then.

As has been said the air movement may be slow and when it does blow in the smoke from forest fires it takes a long time to move it out.

On the topic of burning rice fields. A friend of mine was telling me that a study was done a few years ago that showed that for the small farmer using Buffalo was more profitable and they did not need to burn.

He said that the Government had set up a small school to train farmers it was a ten day course and it only took two days to train the Buffalo.

"Thai's haven't a clue what's its about, "

I doubt most people know what it's about. Judging from the comments in this thread the common belief appears to be "it's about" getting drunk.

Back in December someone start a post about Christmas in Thailand and it was clear he had no idea what Christmas is (supposed to be) about. He seemed to think it had something to do with giving children toys for some reason unclear to him.

St. Valentine, All Saints, All Souls. Pretty sure the Thai Visa consensus would be that they, like any other day, present an excuse to drink and/or expect someone to give them something for free.

True, but ask anyone at the Saint Patrick Parade in New York and see how many of they thinks about the religious aspect? The same for Ireland.

I actually thought that years ago the Catholic church had came out with a list of fictitious saints and Saint Patrick along with Saint Christopher were on it.

Been a long time and my mind works differently now. You will notice the only thing I have mentioned was food.

St Paddys day has nothing to do with religion, it's about pouring blue bols in your pint to turn it green, then seeing how obliterated you can get before last orders.

Used to be back home it was about getting a green shake at McDonalds.

I think these FF air miles plans are pretty much all the same now. A " free" roundtrip long haul flight ends up costing you $300.00 to $500.00 for taxes and fuel surcharges, which is still a OK good deal IMHO if you got the miles and you're flying from North America to Thailand for a vacation.

Anyone know of a FF air miles plan that is actually 100% free?

The only experience I ever had with them was with EVA I flew deluxe economy and upgraded to business one way.

No money needed.

It is Thais with your attitude that have got Thailand into the mess it is in today.

Hopefully Suthep has made it clear enough to the voting public that methods you and your kind advocate will not help Thailand. Thai government needs reform. That is his message. He is not talking about some time down the line or if the Democrats are in power he is talking about today.

Like him or dislike or hate him he is right. Why do people find that so hard to accept?

My rose coloured specs I threw away a long time ago here.

Just another talking head ... yada yada yada, democrat for 30 years did nothing, obliterated his own party by his own actions, sat about in Gov for 2 years + and did absolutely nothing, only sees the light AFTER hes quit politics and his fortune well secured ? yea right on shock horror of that one passing him by for 3 decades or so.... like I said just another talking head and full of crap.

You dont purify a rotten barrel by taking out only a couple of bad apples and sticking in a couple of new ones they will just rot away in the rest of the putrid mess. You go get a new and empty barrell and start afresh... I mean really afresh and not with just another rotten barrel. But hey ho we shall see, last 20 years its been same same different year, next year will be no different. No matter who is in, or the next see if it isnt.

it aint going to happen now, it isnt going to happen in 3 years or 5 or maybe even 10. Not until the old guard are long dead and buried and certain elements come under the control and answer to the nation and can be held both accountable and in check, ie the military and others, until then this is it, get used to it

In the meantime its going to be garbage in... garbage out. Quit simple really

Well at least you know some thing about growing fruit. I have only been here for four years and was unaware of these yearly demonstration you talk about where grass roots people get together and demand the end of corruption and as a result the PM resigns and takes over in a controversial role of temporary PM. While in the mean time looking at chances of highly credible charges of corruption. A finance minister who claims it is OK to lie and she approves of it in public.

Stick to your orchards. You seen to know some thing about them.

Wow a whole 4 years ? lol no wonder you think unusual happenings in politics is strange ...you have sooooo much to learn about this place if you think people want an end to corruption....that has to be the funniest thing ive heard all day... boy are you going to get a surprise as years fly by.

Believe me when I say Thais wants a system that is just corrupt enough to suit them personally and not one that they cant get a slice of. Thats it period ... not an end to it, the system just couldnt handle it... its going to take generations and not until my third paragraph happens will it truly have a chance... youll see

Thanks for the giggle.

You made the statement yearly.

Now you are attacking me because I called you on your BS.

Stick to your orchards you are in over your head. or

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

How about the EC probe something like blocking voting stations..........................

Which candidate blocked a voting station?

He's referring not to any candidates but to the people following sutheps exhortations to not let the election go ahead. An important part of the EC's remit is to organize the election. The way the EC reacted to the actions of sutheps followers led to unnecessary difficulties in organizing the election (for example, election commission officials not even bothering to turn up at polling stations).

So the suggestion was that the EC took time on something more pertinent to finishing the ongoing election. Any investigations and consequent yellow/red cards can ( and have been in the past ) issued after the election.

Otherwise one is left with the thought that the EC are just doing the bidding of others as their part in the judicial coup.

If I remember correctly the EC tried to postpone the election. The PTP refused.

The EC carried out it's duty and organized the election. The PTP did not do their job.

They control the police and they did not instruct them to keep the polls clear. The EC has no armed forces at their command. But the PTP has the police and the army at their beck and call when it comes to upholding justice.

Are you saying that the PTP figured it was justice to block the polls so did nothing about it?

"If you are going to use laws to hunt us down every day, how can we find peace in this country?" she asked with a strained voice."

don' break them

OK now I will read the rest of the article.

Well that was a waste of time. The women needs help and I don't mean political advice. She should get out of it. Obviously she is not fit to govern.

"Today we can't proceed with the rice distribution, even though it's lawful. It is obstructed, so how can farmers receive their money? If it becomes a legal case, the money won't be paid to farmers because the case will still be in progress. We will have to wait till it's finished. That means farmers will get paid even later," she said."

Like the money was due months ago and if their is a legal case it is with in the last week. That 2.2 trillion baht was not to cover the loss of money to the rice scheme. She should have paid that before she stepped down. It was due for about two months.

I wonder where she has the money top pay it with.

Why can they not proceed with the distribution of the rice it would help to pay for it. Maybe they are asking more than the world market is willing to pay. That has nothing to do with the Thai farmers seeking to get their money.

Before we all get too excited, I'd like to pose a couple of snap shot questions.

If you were in a position of absolute power and closely connected to those in a similar position, and this gave you carte blanche to do whatever you wanted, would you stop?

If you were skimming off money every month because of your shady activities - knowing that your 'connections' or position gave you protection from the law - , would you stop?

If you had to pay for your next position in the civil service - knowing that you would reap financial and other benefits in the future, would you say no?

If you were on the payroll of someone with power and influence and received a tidy sum every month, would you stop?

If you had to pay your child's school to ensure they got in or passed their exams, would you say no?

Would you take a moral and ethical stand and say no more to the insidious and cancerous influence of corruption and the Thai patronage system, knowing full well what the consequences might be?

The issue of corruption in Thailand is a moral and ethical minefield, and I don't think it's going to explode anytime soon.

Thats probably better phrased with "why or would they".... and its nope theres not a chance of them stopping, No more than bankers would refuse any bonuses when they lose money or anyone refuse a payrise or free benefits....its endemic, perfectly natural, done without thought and most westerners just dont get it. They like it that way, all of them to some degree, they dont like it when others do it but ahhhh when its about themselves theres always an excuse to turn that blind eye... its automatic.

Isnt anything going to change for a long . lonnnnnnng time on that score here, no matter what the indignant and talking heads say... its only not ok when its someone else, I dont know anyone here, not one, who dosnt engage in corruption at some level either in business or in daily life... not one and that includes me and all the rest here. Its impossible not to.

Waits for the saints to come marching in .......

Nice going. Take it from what it is meant to be and change the meaning then accuse every body of being corrupt. In what way am I corrupt. I do not drive that is where most of the corruption at the low level occurs. I am honest with the government on what I make and immigration. I do not try to pay less for a product than it cost. I pay more than the minimum for transportation. Where am I corrupt?

Before we all get too excited, I'd like to pose a couple of snap shot questions.

If you were in a position of absolute power and closely connected to those in a similar position, and this gave you carte blanche to do whatever you wanted, would you stop?

If you were skimming off money every month because of your shady activities - knowing that your 'connections' or position gave you protection from the law - , would you stop?

If you had to pay for your next position in the civil service - knowing that you would reap financial and other benefits in the future, would you say no?

If you were on the payroll of someone with power and influence and received a tidy sum every month, would you stop?

If you had to pay your child's school to ensure they got in or passed their exams, would you say no?

Would you take a moral and ethical stand and say no more to the insidious and cancerous influence of corruption and the Thai patronage system, knowing full well what the consequences might be?

The issue of corruption in Thailand is a moral and ethical minefield, and I don't think it's going to explode anytime soon.

Good questions. Some yes some no. I put a high value on education.

Your first two are non applicable I wouldn't be doing any thing wrong there.

You are talking completely different levels and circumstances. I believe in starting at the head and working down. You don't kill the snake by cutting of part of it's tail you kill it by cutting of it's head.

"If you were in a position of absolute power and closely connected to those in a similar position, and this gave you carte blanche to do whatever you wanted, would you stop?

If you were skimming off money every month because of your shady activities - knowing that your 'connections' or position gave you protection from the law , would you stop?'

Start in the schools. Demonize those corrupt leaders in society whether in government or business or the military or police. Education education education.

Well education is the answer but to get them to change their ways it will have to come from further up the chain.

The educators along with being poor educators are not about to shoot the goose that lay's the golden egg.

I don't think there has been any increase in corruption as is indicated in the article, it is just that more attention has been drawn to the underlying trend in the country by the recent protests and the war of words between the two groups.

With the addition of the fishermen's plight, animal trafficking, etc being brought to the fore and associated with corruption, that'll do the point scoring no good at all.

Nothing will change by itself, but where do you start making the change? $64,000 question!

You and the article are both wrong. the article says it only got 35 out of 100 that was the 2012 figures the 2013 figure was 33 out of 100. That is a 2% increase in corruption.

So you see you and the article are wrong. Not surprising for the Nation to be wrong and you probably never got to see the real figures.

Maybe two different sources but this subject is all ready ruining. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/710775-fifteen-gunned-down-thais-killing-cambodians-12perday/#entry7560394

Same incidents just that the other thread got derailed with accusations that the loggers were carrying AK47 rifles and did not manage to kill any of the soldiers. Got fishy right off the bat. Also it was on the Cambodian forum not exactly a popular one. Worth looking at occasionally.

It did how ever mention that this was not an uncommon thing there was 165 deaths last year.

Is the concept that ex-government MPs can't use government assets to promote their election campaigns so difficult to grasp?

No probably not, why don't you ask your good friend Suthep about funneling money. After all he decided to withdraw his MP status prior to being selected as DPM to avoid investigation into channeling marketing money into his company.

The very fact he elected to step down rather than being investigated is tactile admittance of guilt.

The rules should be adhered to, but they never are by anyone- you sound like a broken record with your constant crying about PTP/Thaksin, i would feel deeply sorry for your partners health if you had one.

Kind of like your heroic support for Thaksin and his clone Yingluck. Difference being they are trying to stick it to the country today and Suthep is working for the people. Through your own admission you have to go back into history to attack him. That is because today he is doing the honorable thing and trying to improve Thailand.

If what you did mattered I bet you would be right in there holding Yingluck's hand. Rather than improve the lot of the Thai population.

Anything else they want to use as an excuse ? just get a flippin election that all take part in and get on with the usual corrupt life here whoever wins, its going to happen eventually with whoevers snout in the trough and there will be no real reform regardless of the talking heads going on about it.... they all talk crap and no one ever does a thing, so fercrissake just get on with it and stop playing children in the sandpit.

It is Thais with your attitude that have got Thailand into the mess it is in today.

Hopefully Suthep has made it clear enough to the voting public that methods you and your kind advocate will not help Thailand. Thai government needs reform. That is his message. He is not talking about some time down the line or if the Democrats are in power he is talking about today.

Like him or dislike or hate him he is right. Why do people find that so hard to accept?

My rose coloured specs I threw away a long time ago here.

Just another talking head ... yada yada yada, democrat for 30 years did nothing, obliterated his own party by his own actions, sat about in Gov for 2 years + and did absolutely nothing, only sees the light AFTER hes quit politics and his fortune well secured ? yea right on shock horror of that one passing him by for 3 decades or so.... like I said just another talking head and full of crap.

You dont purify a rotten barrel by taking out only a couple of bad apples and sticking in a couple of new ones they will just rot away in the rest of the putrid mess. You go get a new and empty barrell and start afresh... I mean really afresh and not with just another rotten barrel. But hey ho we shall see, last 20 years its been same same different year, next year will be no different. No matter who is in, or the next see if it isnt.

it aint going to happen now, it isnt going to happen in 3 years or 5 or maybe even 10. Not until the old guard are long dead and buried and certain elements come under the control and answer to the nation and can be held both accountable and in check, ie the military and others, until then this is it, get used to it

In the meantime its going to be garbage in... garbage out. Quit simple really

Well at least you know some thing about growing fruit. I have only been here for four years and was unaware of these yearly demonstration you talk about where grass roots people get together and demand the end of corruption and as a result the PM resigns and takes over in a controversial role of temporary PM. While in the mean time looking at chances of highly credible charges of corruption. A finance minister who claims it is OK to lie and she approves of it in public.

Stick to your orchards. You seen to know some thing about them.

How about the EC probe something like blocking voting stations..........................

What are you talking about.

No probe needed we all know it happened including the EC that is why they are looking for ways to finish the election with out that happening again.

Grow up and live with it the rest of us do.