northernjohn

True but the unfortunate thing is that any thing less than what Suthep is demandcing is to leave things as they are.

Sure maybe the election will be put off and the Dems enter and win it but unless the checks and balances are put into the government it will solve nothing just prolong the corruption for years.

People will forget how bad the PTP were just like they have forgotten how bad the red shirts were. Then it will be the same same next election one man and his money buying the election and the men who win it.

Thailand needs to change now to prevent the continuance of a way of governing that comes close to allowing a dictatorship to be set up in the name of democracy just as Hitler did.

Btw Hitler was not elected he was appointed. I understand what you are saying but would it not be fair to both sides if the Anti Government Protesters would clearly say what they want except taken the shins out of the Governement. That is not a program. What they want to do with the millions of Thais in the North which may be will vote back a Shin in power? Reduce voting rights? Nothing is clear and transparent and as long as their is no transparency than the future will be the same as past, with other people on the top. Vote buying like you said is not really the issue if you even read the comments of the Democratic Party spokesman. It is the long time that all governments had neglected the rural areas. Without addressing their problems no party will win and until now I did not see any program from the democrats or the Suthep Gang which is doing that.

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Have you been paying attention. Suthep wants to set up a commission that will make things clear and transparent.

None of which is relevant unless he has a mandate to do so. Does he have one? No.

And if you think Suthep - given his own dark and corrupt past - is simply doing all this because he believes in goodness and light, I have a massive bridge for sale over the Chao Phraya.

And no, I'm not a 'red', as neither are most of us who are appalled at the naivete of those who think this about improving Thailand. It's about improving Suthep and his backers.

You seem to have left off the part of what Suthep wants to do that was in my post and substituted rambling. Your whole post is trying to justify not doing any thing to improve the government. Then you claim you are not a red shirt. Perhaps you are not a card caring red shirt but you believe in all their ideas. You just don't bother to get a gun and some grenades and join them physically.

Would you care to explain to your viewing audience about his dark past and his continuation of it. You can't because it was long ago. But let us look at your leader Mr. Thaksin Shinawatra. His dark past is still happening.

On the one hand we have a man with a dark past trying to clean up the government. On the other hand we have a man with a dark past trying to keep it corrupt.

How much did you pay for that bridge over the Chao Phraya?

Taking into consideration Thaksin's gleeful unleashing of the "police" in February 2003 to wantonly murder "drug dealers" -- that is, 2,500-or so suspected or accused or disliked or simply unlucky small-scale alleged retailers (and the children, friends, and relatives who happened to find themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time) -- plus the reign of terror his bought-and-paid-for Black Shirts unleashed upon Bangkok in April-May 2010, it should be obvious to the dopey farang running-dogs-of-the-Reds that REMOVING THAKSIN FROM POLITICS IS A NECESSARY, THOUGH NOT SUFFICIENT, PRECONDITION FOR DEMOCRACY. That is to say, for all those fools who, astonishingly -- against all the evidence -- try to portray the violent, megalomaniacal Thaksin as some great hero of democracy, here's a clue: You will never see democracy again in Thailand if that blood-on-his-hands fugitive were ever allowed to return to this country and entrench his power. Thaksin stated on many occasions prior to the Sept. 2006 coup that democracy was not his goal; he wanted to run Thailand like a CEO; that is, like a big boss whose word is law. He wanted to discipline Thai society, like the angry, tunnel-visioned cop he was trained to be. Thaksin set as an objective to dis-empower the poor by cultivating their dependence on his financial largesse (acquired not by Steve Jobs-like entrepreneurial hard work but instead through paying kickbacks to get contracts to computerize the "police" force in the 1980s). Simply sitting back and allowing Thaksin to win this decades-long struggle -- let alone to help him in his cause by incessantly circulating propaganda, like stupid running-dogs -- would mean the utter impossibility of democracy ever reappearing for a generation or more, and the ruination of the Thai economy through wild, hare-brained schemes like the rice-pledging scam. In opposition, using occasionally non-democratic (but also, normally, non-violent) methods to prevent Thaksin's gluttonous lust for power from being realized is a small price to pay considering the alternative would be that Thaksin would crush all hope of democracy for 30 years or more. Everyone with a brain, a capacity for reason, and a willingness to study Thailand objectively -- not letting their own shame at being born into a lower class in some farang country where class prejudice is so strong that it distorts mental judgment and makes the self-loathing farang burn with envy and rage -- understands all of this to be demonstrably true. The formula is simple: Thaksin winning = no democracy for decades. Thaksin losing = a ray of hope that democracy can take root, though it will take a long, long time to undo all the damage that the power-mad man-in-the-sand and his mindless mobs of red- and black-shirted goons have caused to the political culture.

The funny thing is you can also replace Suthep's name for Thaksin and have the article remain pretty much the same.

Both are crooks interested in power so they can line there pockets. There is no hope with either of these two guys.

Neither have the moral or ethical high ground. But better to work in the framework of democracy and not a fascist state.

At least read the article before you reply to it.

Also take a look at What Suthep is proposing to do all of it not just the part you can take out of context and make him look bad with.

Taking into consideration Thaksin's gleeful unleashing of the "police" in February 2003 to wantonly murder "drug dealers" -- that is, 2,500-or so suspected or accused or disliked....

You removed Thaksin in 2006, you had a coup, you 'reformed' the constitution. Then you rewrote history to make your actions looks good. The technical term is cognitive dissonance. It's a mental process that creates a false picture in your head to make you believe you are the good guys so you can live with your bad choices.

So even as you're ripping down democracy, corrupting the bodies of state, the Electoral process, the Judiciary, the government, even as you're destroying the economy, closing schools, turning Thailand back into a third world country. Even then, your cognitive dissonance makes you think you are the good guys.

And to drown out opposing voices you do your chants, 'ear medicine', 'fugitive in Dubai', 'out shopping', the same droning chant used by cults like the moonies to indoctrinate their believers. Over and over and over again until you can no longer rationally reason for yourself.

cognitive dissonance

Thank you for giving us a name for your disorder. I will now read your posts with a better understanding of the reason behind them.

It can be assumed that Suthep and his dreaming brigades will do the same on the 2nd Feb. the result will be a nullified election, with a postponement of the election. Again the caretaker government will stay ( or better has to stay). It's time to call the party off and sit together and find compromises where both sides are not losing face.

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True but the unfortunate thing is that any thing less than what Suthep is demandcing is to leave things as they are.

Sure maybe the election will be put off and the Dems enter and win it but unless the checks and balances are put into the government it will solve nothing just prolong the corruption for years.

People will forget how bad the PTP were just like they have forgotten how bad the red shirts were. Then it will be the same same next election one man and his money buying the election and the men who win it.

Thailand needs to change now to prevent the continuance of a way of governing that comes close to allowing a dictatorship to be set up in the name of democracy just as Hitler did.

Btw Hitler was not elected he was appointed. I understand what you are saying but would it not be fair to both sides if the Anti Government Protesters would clearly say what they want except taken the shins out of the Governement. That is not a program. What they want to do with the millions of Thais in the North which may be will vote back a Shin in power? Reduce voting rights? Nothing is clear and transparent and as long as their is no transparency than the future will be the same as past, with other people on the top. Vote buying like you said is not really the issue if you even read the comments of the Democratic Party spokesman. It is the long time that all governments had neglected the rural areas. Without addressing their problems no party will win and until now I did not see any program from the democrats or the Suthep Gang which is doing that.

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Have you been paying attention. Suthep wants to set up a commission that will make things clear and transparent. You know one where the government can not buy rice at above market prices and then sell them at prices they can not reveal to us. One that will set up 350 baht billion water management programs and make proper studies on them not put them out for bid with no environmental impact studies done on them. Surprise surprise a foreign contractor with a dubious past wins.

These and other things that the government has been doing for the past 14 years will not be allowed. The constitution needs some rewriting to avoid these things. Also to avoid the vote buying and lack of security on the votes between the time they are cast and the time they are counted. When all this is done hold an election. Probably put it out to a referendum with plenty of opportunity for people who don't understand the changes to have them explained to them. Suthep is estimating it will take a year to a year and a half to do this. He wants all sectors of society represented on it.

You have been listening to too many red shirts and PTP who are claiming all Suthep wants to do is be a dictator. You have not listened to what he and his supporters want. You are probably new to this whole thing and do not realize that Suthep came along after this had been going on for a while. There were several groups of grass roots people with no political affiliations protesting about the attempt to make Thaksin an honest man and all the crimes he was charged with be OK and the corruption in the present government. It was only after they came together that Suthep joined forces with them. Even later the democrats joined forces.

People talk about what they need but this is the only attempt to do these things. From where I sit it looks like a great plan. Far better than continuing on the way the country is going. National debt increasing corruption increasing personal debt increasing. But I doubt it will happen. To many people unaware of what the protectors are calling for and to many dishonest red shirts and PTP trying to say Suthep is trying to be a dictator and stop having elections. They just want to carry on the way things are going.

It can be assumed that Suthep and his dreaming brigades will do the same on the 2nd Feb. the result will be a nullified election, with a postponement of the election. Again the caretaker government will stay ( or better has to stay). It's time to call the party off and sit together and find compromises where both sides are not losing face.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

True but the unfortunate thing is that any thing less than what Suthep is demandcing is to leave things as they are.

Sure maybe the election will be put off and the Dems enter and win it but unless the checks and balances are put into the government it will solve nothing just prolong the corruption for years.

People will forget how bad the PTP were just like they have forgotten how bad the red shirts were. Then it will be the same same next election one man and his money buying the election and the men who win it.

Thailand needs to change now to prevent the continuance of a way of governing that comes close to allowing a dictatorship to be set up in the name of democracy just as Hitler did.

Makes you wonder what sort of jobs these protesters have that allows them to take so much time off work. These violent thugs with half a brain(am being generous) probably don't even know what the protest is about but just use it as an excuse to create some some street cred. with their other half brained mates who have got nothing better to do to fill their boring days because they have limited intelligence to do something worthwhile like find a job.

A man has been murdered and this is the type of vile, abusive post you make.

It makes you realize that these protestors unlike the 2010 red shirts were not getting paid.

doesn't speak much for sense of value on human life. All but comes out and openly condones the killing.

I thought, Police was supposed to be unarmed. This cop had a pistol.

and was in plain-clothes, mingling with the protesters, not the first time that the guards have caught a policeman doing this.

This is either an innocent cop, gathering intelligence (for what purpose ? criminal or political ?), or a potential agent-provocateur, no way to tell which.

Obviously it'd be suspicious for protesters that police are gathering intelligence, but any police force in the world would have people doing the same, surely? They caught another undercover cop the other day and Michael Yon actually put on Facebook screenshots of what the police guy was sending back to HQ. He was basically reporting on how they've set up the guards, what arms they have and things like that. Nothing that you wouldn't expect police to be gathering intelligence on...

Same information a killer would want to know.

On a Sunday, perhaps both the Red-Shirt protesters, and the anti-government protesters, have normal jobs which let them take one or two days per-week off, say office or factory-jobs ?

I'd note that by-far the largest turnouts, in November & December, were at week-ends.

Even violent thugs get days-off from work !

Apparently so do the cops.

the shootings were at 2:00 and they started investigating at 4:30. Really on the ball.

It's expensive, but it they have quality equipment, maintain this equipment, enforce gym etiquette rules (so I won't trip over dumbbells and weight plates while walking across the free weight area) and no crowds (the price may ensure that) I may join.

Yes being new I imagine they would have all that but will they keep the equipment up. Also I like a area just for some floor exercises' Have to see it. Also would the trainers be real trainers who know their business and do it. Not just some muscle heads walking around chatting the Ladies. If so I would consider joining it just for the free trainers. At those prices it would be a one year only. I wonder if it would have a pool. I doubt it.

One upside to it would be at that price their would more than likely be no wait on the equipment. Have to check it out.

Interesting. I'm surprised at this offer to say the least.

I am not. she has backed down on every thing so far why should this be the different.

She hasn't got what it takes to tell her brother to F off. To tell Suthep we will do it your way and I will still win the vote. According to Suthep's plan the vote wouldn't be for a year to a year and a half. Plenty of time to remake herself. Not that it would do any good she still wouldn't have the gray matter necessary to do the job.

How long has she had an arrest warrant out for Suthep?

Her big plan now is call off the elections no more protestors showing what she has screwed up and arrest Suthep. He can hardly wait for it. Not

I live in a small village of 80 households. We have had 5 deaths in as many weeks. Elderly locals taking it really hard. Blankets have been distributed by the government one per household, but this is woefully inadequate. Poor buggahs

I have sympathy for families who have lost loved ones due to the "cold", however, there is a cold spell (roodoo nao" every year at this time and every year we hear the same stories.

The government hands out blankets when there is a cry for "disaster zone due to cold weather.

What do these people do with these blankets after the weather warms up? Do they sell them?

Blankets and bedding can often be bought at local markets in most places in the country. A little advance planning might be in order?

Well yes blankets can be bought at local markets but a lot of people can not afford them. 300 baht a day was just a gimmick to get there vote. It hasn't translated into any thing good for the hill tribes and small villages.

Yes you are rite a little planning ahead and in ten years they could have ten blankets. But that is not the way they are taught to think in their education system.

The Centre to Maintain Peace and Order reported that advance voting went on smoothly in 66 provinces whereas in the rest of the provinces, mostly in the South, and in Bangkok, there were protests to prevent voters from exercising their voting rights.

Just shows where the real educated people in Thailand are located.

Sadly I don't live in one of those educated places I live in Chiang Mai.

But aside from having all those uneducated red shirts around burning down fire engines and what not. Chiang Mai is a nice place to live.

There is no unity between organisations in Thailand, no one works together and it is all about the personal little empires. The Army doesn't get along with the Police, the Police don't get along with Navy and the Navy doesn't get along with the Army. To many generals jostling for positions at the trough and god help anyone who gets in their way. Let's not forget other Dept's like TAT fighting with TCT (Tourism Auth & Council) they don't get along or work together either and are stealing each others budget. The list can go on and on

What you say for the most part is true. You did how ever leave out the fact that the red shirts are starting to differ. There is now three different groups of them. One doesn't want Thaksin involved in politics.

How ever you are wrong about no organizations in Thailand having unity. The Anti government protestors are made up of several different organizations. They seem to be getting along fine.

Mr Chalerm has a dodgy history but I suspect his time in Scandinavia has made him see the error of his ways. He seems to be on the right path again now and probably regrets the past. He should be given the chance to make amends

Next rumor, Chalerm has repented his devious ways and is a born again christon. The time in Scandinavia may not be due much credit as his preformance since his return has fallen back into his old natural nasty, selfish, self promoting charactics.

What was he doing in Scandinavia there are several treatment centers here in Thailand. Also a Wat that treats addiction.

"Chalerm, an outspoken veteran politician with a background in the police force, said he was unsure whether the arresting police officers would take recourse to an extrajudicial killing in case of armed resistance.

"I don't know if there will be extrajudicial killings. I will not be among the arresting officers. But whatever will happen or if there may be loss, people should understand that the police will use their good judgement," Chalerm said."

He really said that?

They are all under the direction of Thaksin and he has a proven record of extrajudicial killings. Didn't matter to him if they were innocent or not. Haven't seen any signs of him changing his spots yet.

Chalerm just give him enough ear medicine and he will solve all kinds of problems in 60 days.

Once again we see the true colours of the reds, they are the violent thugs and will kill anyone who op[poses them, even peacefull protesters. This is directly on yingluck and she is now responsible for this death. Comeon all you red lovers, start bragging how great you are now .

Please let me remind you once again. It was not Yingluck that started this problem, but his excellency the mouth from the south. So this death has to be directly his responsibility. If he had not started this problem, that man would still be alive and waiting for the next election whilst the Elected government would be getting on with running the country as they were popularly elected by a large majority to do.

All that has happened in this country for the past several months has been a chain of events which was started by Yingluck and the failed amnesty bill.

Or .....started by the judicial coup.... or the military junta in 06... or by Thaksin.... or it's much deeper than that and judging by the derogatory comments made every day by my yellow leaning friends towards Isaan, Red Shirts, Taxi drivers, etc, it isn't about to go away.

It will if they decide that they want a better Thailand.

Big difference in a picket line of men, woman, folks trying to get reform and rigged system. They are asking for people to boycott the elect out the front and they are not armed. They were set apron by groups of young men all shipped in for it. Armed

.

"And they are not armed"

Here is a picture from the car your peaceloving demonstrators were driving!!Be54mjrCMAA8YJo.jpg

Can you repost it and put an arrow in it to the spot that says peace lovers car.

Much appreciated.

People on both side are crazy. This will not be the end only the beginning. Death means nothing to these people.

Guaranteed to be a Thai basher come along. If death means nothing to these people why are the anti government protestortrs not armed?

Why are they not shooting into crowds of red shirts?

Does any one wonder why the red shirts are called uneducated?

I don't say it often but I am going to make an exception in this case if the poster or any other poster feels the Thai's are that feeling less about death and killing others go back and climb back under the rock in the country you came from.

Sorry Mods but I have strong feelings towards that low of a class Thai basher. Remove it if you feel it is not appropriate.

I was amazed at the lack of English spoken there given the fact it is in a high density tourist area.

It still has a great repairman on the second floor.

I have a lot more freedoms in the US - can own land, freedom of speech, have my own firing range on my own property, constitutional protection from the police, rule of law, honest courts, the absolute right to defend myself and my home... and of course I can trust the food and water anywhere to be safe. I never have dirty air. Almost all drivers are trained, sane, and sober.

I'm sorry but I have to laugh at some of the things you wrote. I too, am an American but don't see things as you do in any way, shape or form whatsoever! Freedom in the USA??? It is a police state for crying out loud. Freedom of speech? LOL. I guess you didn't protest at the start of the Iraq war and get threatened by the American police to crack your head open for peacefully protesting. Honest courts???? Hahahaha LOL you have got to be joking! Have you ever been involved in a major lawsuit? I have. Guess what? The lawyers, judges, police, expert witnesses.....they are all corrupt! The system there stinks! And unlike in countries like Spain and a number of other in Europe, you can lose your home and everything you own if you get a court judgment against you (even if it was obtained fraudulently). "Almost all drivers are trained, sane, and sober." Come on, you must be joking, aren't you? In Southern California you hear on the news every week about some drunk who drives up on the freeway off-ramp and gets into a head on collision killing an entire family. Do you have any idea how many people are locked up in American prisons for felony drunk driving? I will say that you are correct in that the drivers are trained, but that is about it.

I to am from the US. Just about fully agree with you. It has become a nanny state. You are free to stand at the corner with out a car in sight and wait for the light to turn green for you to walk across. If you don't you can be charged with breaking the law. The U S is so free that you do not live you just exist. All kinds of freedoms that are useless. Free to defend your self. I grew up in Seattle and never felt the need to have a gun to protect myself. All that protection you have from the police. don't forget if some one breaks into your house and is later found with the goods on him he has the protection of the courts if they didn't get a warrant to search him or his premises. Freedom a myth. When I was taking Criminology we were told that per capata the U S had more people locked up in prison than any other country in the world.

Not much on TV here but I like law and order. Try watching it some times the court wins and some times the arrested one wins. Notice how easy it is to have things that have a direct bearing on the case not allowed to be brought in. If it was your wife or some one close to you killed and the murderer went free because of a technicality in the freedom of the perpetrator would you rejoice and say look how wonderful a free country it is?

There is a big difference between freedom and common sense.

Yes there driving is better. But the road rage is so bad there that the news papers don't even bother to print it any more. It would be like printing every day don't forgers to breath. Here in Thailand it is not a common occurrence.

What was that song

Freedom just nothing else to loose.

The only reason the states doesn't have as many road fatalities is because they have a far faster time for qualified medical help to be on the scene. The first hour is the most criticical. Here we do not have the emergency services available to them. What good is your right to carry a gun going to do you if you are not home when yiour house is broken into or the other guy is ffaster with it.

the States has a lot to offer but for my self I prefer taking responsibility for my own life. so many things I can have happen there by accident being clumsy as I am. A good lawyer will get me thousands of dollars for it. Here I am completely responsible and if I trip on a step in the middle of the side walk and have to go to the hospital I am responsible for the bill.

I enjoy taking responsibility for my own life. No welfare system here to take care of me here. To each there own.

Nakhonchaiair, around 800 baht and about 10 to 11 hours

At over 1500 kilometers, that would average over 150kph!

From memory, it is close to 24hrs and not much cheaper than flying.

My wife and I along with two other couples drove down there and had to overnight in Cha am. All told I think it was about 18 hours of non stop driving. that included the fuel stops. won't be doing that drive again.

This will lead to a serious problem. I mean all the good hamburger joints around town will have to jack their prices up.

If you don't deal with the scum now, word will get out and there will be a dozen of them is 3 months from now. The diminishing quality of expats in CM old city is the reason I moved to the country

Yeah, right! You moved to the country because of a few expats you don't like?

This reminds me of Americans I have met, who claim they left the US because of George Bush! Sorry, I am American who also hates GB, but find that hard to believe. In fact, TOTALLY impossible. Did they own child support, parking tickets, some taxes, maybe, that could be the real reason, but ....a president you don't like, makes you move, impossible!

People need to say what they think, not say what they think other people might like to hear ...well unless that is the best they can come up with as an excuse, when nothing else will suffice.

Not only that but Loi Kroh is not in the old city.

Again, I am trying to get opinions on, if money was not an issue, would you still want to live in CM or another city in Thailand, or would you choose a warm climate and friendly small city back home or another western country?

Once again, this assumes you are not addicted to cheap sex or booze.

If money (and a VISA for me and the family) was not an issue, I would be living in San Francisco.

I don't think you would find the life style or the weather there. Being as you would have to be very well off financially the health care and tax's would not bother you.

How ever it is a good choice for a completely different life style. Not sure if I could handle the cold. By the way I am partial to the city as I was born there. Raised in Seattle so you can see the choice for me was hard on the 49er Seahawk game. I was neutral.

New Zealand, Ecuador & Mexico are my suggestions.

New Zealand speaks English the other two Spanish.

Never been to New Zealand on my to do list. How is the weather compared to Chiang Mai and what is the medical like.

Again, I am trying to get opinions on, if money was not an issue, would you still want to live in CM or another city in Thailand, or would you choose a warm climate and friendly small city back home or another western country?

Once again, this assumes you are not addicted to cheap sex or booze.

That is not what your original post asked.

If you could afford to live in a similar lifestyle (excluding sex and booze) within a part of your or another western country that speaks your tongue, has warm pleasant weather, good healthcare, easy and enjoyable lifestyle, less corruption, would you leave Thailand?

Name us the country that has the lack of corruption and weather you describe. Remember you are posting on an English speaking forum. That really limits the number of countries. Then the health care well you have really narrowed it down now. The life style. I walk a lot as I have no vehicle. How ever I just stick out my hand and even if I do get over charged it is still cheaper than what I would have to pay in this fictional country of yours.

Your whole question is hypothetical. So my answer is a hypothetical yes. Provided I could take my Thai wife which should be no problem as it is the perfect country to live in. If I couldn't that would take away my life style.

You are over looking the fact that the weather is changing all over the world. Your hypothetical city might have snow next year. We might have a rainy season wiping out the smog season here as we did two years ago.