hellohello123

2 minutes ago, mike324 said:

Grab has no competition, so prices up and standards down. Not only that Uber paid their drivers pretty good during rush hour times so the drivers have very little incentive to cancel and actually tried to drive good and get paid well.

 

Grab's incentives for drivers are not as good as Uber.

ive only used uber in my home country once,

and I also used grab recently in indonesia bali, was very impressed by grab there,

not one cancellation, prices were about the same as a metered taxi, no delays no nothing

so I was expecting similar in bkk,

however unfrotuantely there is far more traffic in bkk than bali, so hte estimates for time were often very wrong, which is fair enouhg,

just the continual negotiating through msgs for the grab drivers to pick us up and find us once aloocated was the biggest pain

am happy to pay a tad more than the meter for piece of mind

7 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

You just ask the next - agree in heavy traffic periods it can be hit and miss but should never be more than a couple refusals before driver agrees - and in most cases this will be less than 5 minutes with the number of taxi on the streets.  Would agree waiting taxi at hotels/tourist spots often pull such nonsense but those on road seldom do.

well, since I am a tourist, yes I usually give up after 3 taxis, or depending on how many other people are doing it

my latest was a 4-5 star hotel just off Sukhumvit 23

and the other night was rod fai ratchada night market

1 hour ago, Pravda said:

 

I have been living in Bangkok for 5 years now. I took taxi probably around 500 times. I can honestly say it has never, ever happened to me that taxi refused to turn on the meter. Refuse a ride, yes.

 

You must stay at Khaosan or some other dodgy place. Yes, that includes some 5 star hotels where the lazy scum hangs around.

ok, i used the wrong terminology

not refusing to turn the meter on, but refusing to accept the job with a meter

Visit thailand once per year.

Just left bkk.

Completely over trying to negotiate  taxi drivers to use the meter , so decided to try grab.

My first trip was a nightmare.

Standing on sukhumvit rd, had 2 drivers accept jobs, get close and couldnt find me so just cancelled with rude msgs

2 drivers accept, 5 to 7 mins away. Gps showing them not moving for 20 mins, next minute they drive in the other direction and cancel, eventually the app said no drivers in the area.

Got pretty annoyed and managed to flag a normal cab

After that used grab about 8 times.

Only has 1 to 2 cancellations. Other thab that generally ok. The gps sometimes was weird eg putting me in a locatiopn 200m away, 

Fares were a about 20 % more than metered taxi.

Eg meter from svn airport to sukhumvit about 550 inc tolls.

Grab was 600

Still dont get why some drivers  would accept a job, literally get to 1m away and then cancel, 

As a user if i cancel 5 times i get my account locked, surely the same for the drivers

Also, actually  had a metered taxi turn up as my grab, he turned the meter  on and grab app was 150, while his meter was 120, 

And i had to pay 150 which is fine as that was what the app said

1 minute ago, evadgib said:

How does a presumably confidential police report reach the media and did the victim consent to being identified?

1000 bht to the desk clerk

1 minute ago, DoctorG said:

What does this mean please. I do not like to see a word I do not know so I googled it. Nothing!

christmas gymanstics?

christian gymnastics?

crisis gymnastics?

crisis sriracha?

40 minutes ago, zyphodb said:

Ha, TV is incredible, here you have an Auzzie robbed at gunpoint by a scumbag taxi driver & his mates, & all the TV wags can do is moan about him not having a shirt on...

Words fail me ???? 

at least they left him his hat!

7 minutes ago, Farangwithaplan said:

'Saving face' is the term used in Thai by english speakers. I was taught at a young age that "you attract more bees with honey, than salt". I see similarities in the term and the saying.

 

If the OP wasn't getting the result, a change of tact may have gleaned better results.

 

The social norm of not "calling someone out" is ingrained in Thai culture. It is offensive as walking up to someone in your home country and getting in their face and saying "Your wife is a town bike and daughter is not much better" or words to that effect. To a standard westerner, the comment I just say would be highly offensive. Just like losing one's cool or pointing out people's perceived liabilities or issues in a public forum or even one on one in Thailand.

 

I've been guilty of it with a senior staff member on a couple of occasions and been guilty of it with the occasional person in the community. But once they go silent, you have lost. It takes a lot to get them back. These days I usually manage to check myself and offer them their version of honey and I am rarely disappointed.

 

 

im not being argumentative for the sake of it, but lets get some perpsective,

as you say, "once they go silent, you have lost"

if they proceed not to do their job or their role/responsibility and screw up, will their boss say "thats ok, you lost face, its ok that you didnt do what you were supposed to, here is a promotion" or "thats ok you lost face, I forgive you for leaving the safe unlocked and now we got robbed overnight "

I work in customer service, and sometimes through no fault of my own or my fault, I look very stupid, but I deal with it and do what im supposed to do,

26 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

 You said people who were concerned with face would not apologize which is an untrue statement

4 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I can't prove evidence of absence. 

Nuff said

18 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Japan is mentioned 13 times in the Wiki article.  You said people who were concerned with face would not apologize which is an untrue statement

please provide evidence of your statement

1 minute ago, marcusarelus said:

Japan is mentioned 13 times in the Wiki article.  You said people who were concerned with face would note apologize which is an untrue statement and the definition above supports that. 

would have thought the country with biggest emphasis on face would have its own section???

dont see any reference to apoligies in the article, how does something thats not even referred to be classifed as a untrue statement???

step 3

3 minutes ago, seancbk said:

More complete explanations here  :-    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_(sociological_concept)

Most expats I meet have no real concept of what constitutes 'losing face'.   Yet most of them go about Bangkok losing it almost constantly.

2 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

 

Face is everything in Japan.  Japan has to be the #1 country concerned with saving face.  Much more than Thailand. 

 

thought japanese were supposed to have the highest amount of face in the world or at least asia,??

yet the wiki link starts off with china,

and under countries,

arabic, persian, korean, thai, english

but no japan...

looks like someone doesnt know the definition

12 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Face has nothing to do with apology as you claimed.  Face is disagreeing with someone in public causing them embarrassment. 

 

People apologize all the time in countries where face is very important like Japan. 

https://www.globalnegotiator.com/international-trade/dictionary/losing-face/

 

For example I am causing you to lose face so you will insult me as opposed to debate me.  It is a human reaction to not being able to deal with being wrong. 

 

Check out the definition of losing face and you will see your error. 

 

your link has no mention of apologies,

so that doesnt mean apology has anything or nothing to do with face

"suggest you go back to basics, and come up with a theory/belief, followed by evidence, followed by rebuttal, followed by conclusion

now youve moved to step 2, congratulatiojns

edit: if we cant agree that apologising,=loss of face for them, then there is not much point in this debate

1 minute ago, marcusarelus said:

TOKYO — Even by Japanese standards — where chief executives routinely make public apologies if their company is in crisis — Akio Toyoda’s comments on Friday were surprising. He expressed grief over a fatal crash that led to a recall of 3.8 million cars, Further, Mr. Toyoda said his company was shamefully unprepared for the global economic crisis that has devastated the auto industry, and is a step away from “capitulation to irrelevance or death.” The company, he added, is “grasping for salvation

 

I guess since Japanese executives routinely make public apologies you don't know what you are talking about eh?

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/03/business/global/03toyota.html

 

Oh BTW the Japanese Emperor apologized for WWII. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan

 

 

 

 

this just shows your ignornace, that you think that japanese are the most face orientated group in asia,

I just proved to you that if face was their number one priority, they wouldnt apoligise,

so you post a few examples of people apologising,

please....

suggest you go back to basics, and come up with a theory/belief, followed by evidence, followed by rebuttal, followed by conclusion

so far youve gotten to step 1, congratulations

13 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

What does apologizing have to do with losing face?  Apologizing is after the fact after the face is lost and you are trying to minimize the damage. 

 

In America a gangster gets shot for causing the boss to lose face.  In Japan he cuts off his finger.  Both a result of causing the boss to lose face. 

to me anyone who puts face tas their highest priority,

they would never apologise

as it makes them look stupid

ive worked under, with and above many ego tistical people, who think they are gods gift to the world, and they would never admit their mistake or apologise, as they would lose face

Ps I can personally assure you that in school in Japan, admitting to mistakes, apologising for errors is a big thing. 

Not sure about schools thaialnd 

3 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

What does apology have to do with it?  They don't tell people the truth because they are trying to save face.  When they get caught they try and reduce the damage to face my the most efficient means possible.  Sometimes an apology sometimes harakiri.  

 

The perfect example Clinton tried to save face by lying and got impeached for it. 

Clinton tried to save face.  Did he ever apologize to the American people for lying? 

If face was the number one priority, they would not apologise, 

My example with the bell boy who clearly screwed up and lost face just decided to ignore me 

In Japan, if I asked a bell boy to get me a metered taxi (or equivalent situation) they wouldn't get me something a specificallt asked not for. And there is generally a higher English language barrier than Thailand. 

And if I got angry with them for making a mistake, they'd apologise, and most likely try to fix it. 

That's losing face by admitting to their mistake. 

As for. Bill. Clinton. I love the guy but the outright lie he did was ridiculous 

Just now, marcusarelus said:

I didn't say anything about suicide.  The instinct to preserve face is something so ingrained in Japanese culture that many Japanese are not aware that it influences their behavior.

Face is everything in Japan.  Japan has to be the #1 country concerned with saving face.  Much more than Thailand. 

 

All of the recent sex scandals not being reported by important men all over the world was to save face of their companies.  Hence the Me too movement. 

 

Completely disagree with you. 110%

Although face may not be unimportant to them

How many politicians, heads, leaders apologise officially on TV. Or even resign for disgracing their name or company at the expense of their own ego

1 minute ago, marcusarelus said:

Anti depressant pill usage in the USA 130 per 1000 people.  Australia 96 per 1000.  Thailand 3 per 1000. 

http://time.com/4900248/antidepressants-depression-more-common/

 

Western countries save face by medicating and not facing the problems. 

 

In America saving face is, "don't rock the boat, don't make waves."  And the reason so many people have been recently fired and the Me too movement.  The Catholic church trying to save face by ignoring the Priest Abuse crisis.  The FBI trying to save face by ignoring J Edgar wore dresses.  America as a whole is trying to save face by saying, "not my President."

 

The whole Democratic party is trying to save face after picking Hillary to run.  Read, "The Grim Politics of Saving Face."

Deny. Deflect. Double down. These have become the watchwords of the modern politician who is trying to save face after so many wrong decisions. 

 

You hear saving face every other word on America's news networks.  The Pope is trying to save face.  The Brexiteers are trying to save face, Bill Cosby is trying to save face.  The Supreme court nominee is trying to save face after 3 women accuse him or sex crimes.  

 

I came to Thailand to avoid all the Western idiots trying to save face.  It's better here.  Everybody is honest about saving face.  In the West they think they have you fooled and in your case they succeeded. 

 

 

I'm. Not American, as you say Americans may be mentioning it in the media, but I hear far less cases of using face as an excuse for bad behaviour. 

Not too sure you can attribute loss of face for higher rates of suicide. 

Doesn't Japan have one of the highest rates in the world, and their focus on face isn't as high as Thailand for this example

2 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

But you should not tell them, otherwise they lose face

geez, im so thanful  Idont havea life threatening allergy or medical problem ,

imagine being allergic to peanuts and geting told that the dish has no peanuts because the guy didnt want to lose face,

no good if Im going in to anaphenalpic shock on the floor....

2 hours ago, seancbk said:

 

If a taxi that doesn't want to use it's meter drives upto the 5 star hotel, do you think that is the fault of the bell boy?

How would he know that "all taxis around here don't do meter"?   

You must have very high blood pressure getting worked up about something so trivial as having to try 3 cabs before one accepts the fare on it's meter.

no the behaviour of the taxi is not the bell boys fault,

however I asked him specifically for a metered taxi, and he said yes, he can speak thai, all he has to do is ask the driver,

also its a 5 star hotel, they have a system or way to get these metered taxis, its hotel-customer relations 101

"How would he know that "all taxis around here don't do meter"?   "

I have seriously have absolutely no idea, I mean I expect to go to a restaurant and ask whats your popular dish, and for the staff to have no idea what im talking about!

geez, a bell boy not knowing about taxis, 

I must come from a different planet

13 minutes ago, seancbk said:

 

Actually I agree with you that the concierge at a 5 star hotel such as the Okura Prestige would not allow a taxi to not use it's meter for one of their customers.   It's more likely that the OP wasn't at a 5 star hotel. 



 

suggest you read the OP, it clearly says 5 star

also, the bell boy should know (even I do ) that non metered accepting taxis are everywhere,

face or loss of face or not, 

so if you went to a fine dining restaurant, and said , peanuts make me sick, can I have my main dish without peanuts

"oh no problems sir"

and then the dish arrives with peanuts, and you get sick , are you simply going to say

"oh thats ok, he gets paid peanuts, and I need to not get so angry, and its ok, he was just avoiding losing face"

yeah right

11 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Me nonsense?  Pshaw.  Stay at a 5 star hotel and ask the concierge to get you a taxi who uses meter.  Your wish will be there command. The Okura Prestige Bangkok.  Call the concierge up and find out.  Head bell boy too. 

 

My point is you should expect that kind of service for that kind of money and you pay those rates so you can relax not accommodate yourself to a cab driver.  If I wanted to take direction from a taxi driver I'd stay at the Nana hotel. 

 

I got my information from watching, "Crazy Rich Asians."

. 

spot on, couldnt have said it much better,

its a 5 star hotel, 

regardless of how much they get paid, they have a job to do, and reptutation to uphold,

I do not expect the 5 star bell boy to put me into a possibly dangerous and illegal practiced taxi, of which I have specificaly requested not to do, where the request was very reasonable

you pay a premium price for a reason