hellohello123

5 hours ago, SteveInBKKandMAUI said:

My Mother (USA) said to me often:

 

"There Is Nothing Worse In This World Than A Woman Felt Scorned".

 

I Don't Think It's Much Different Throughout The World.  Go Through A USA Divorce And You'll Understand.  I Am Sure It's The Same Everywhere.    The Woman Will Go Out-Of-Her-Way To Make The Man Look Badly.  She Will Say And Do Anything .... To Her Family & The Kids, To Make It look Like It's Not Her Fault.

 

It's The Same As "Losing Face".

 

I Believe.

I know I'm going to get a lot of disagreement, but I personally believe it's far less about face in these situations but it's about the money. 

Money brings out the worst in people especially women. 

I believe divorce lawyers  would probably be unemployed if money was not involved in a divorce 

7 minutes ago, VBF said:

I think we're agreeing with each other?

Oh, btw, at no time did I yell or become rude....just saying! 

yes, we are agreeing with eachother... i think  ??

if a customer gets rude or starts getting loud, either theyre just rude/obnoxious people, or they are really justifiably pissed off,

when I was young I was working at a super lavish function centre, I was carrying champagnes, and tipped one down the back of a lady with a one piece dress with half her back exposed,

she went absolutely ballsitc at me, and yes she probably did go over board, but she was dressed a million dollars and I tipped an entire glass down her back which im sure would have ruined her day,

I told my boss, and we both profusely apologised, and offered to pay for dry cleaning, and gave her freebies to try and rectify it

at no time, did myself or my boss simply ignore her or look elsewhere because I had lost face in front of lot of people

6 hours ago, seancbk said:

HelloHello123:  Earlier this year I was staying in a 5star hotel in bkk, I needed a metered taxi to the airport. I asked the bell boy to get me one with a meter specifically. One comes eventually and started the excuses. I got out and explained the situation to the bell boy who understood. And ordered me another one, he even spoke to the driver, and once I got in, same excuses. 

 

I got very angry with him as it had already been 15 mins and confronted him, He eventually while standing in front of me just started talking to his colleague while ignoring me. 

--- end quote -- 

You got very angry with him?    What for?   Is it his fault taxis don't want to use their meter, or that there weren't loads of available taxis?

I would have turned my back on you as well for being rude.


 

yeah I got angry with him ,because I asked him for something specific,  and explained why, and he said, yeah no problem,

what does how much he gets paid have anything to do with it

this is a 5 start hotel ,not some cheap hostel, I dont expect staff to lead me to dodgy illegal practices (thats what I pay a premium price for the service and room)

if he knew that there were no metered taxis, then why would he say no problems??? oh, so he doesnt lose face!! so we're back to square one with the face debate,

had he said, "oh, all the taxis around here dont do meter" i would have accepted it and made different choices?

in fact the 3rd taxi, did meter for us without any hesitation, and off we went

oh another loss of face for them!

so lets say this bell boy has another job at a resturant, and I go in and order a special of the day, which he said was great,  so I order it, he sends the order to the kitchen

and then when the meals come, my special is missing because it had sold out and he knew that when he ordered it , but because he didnt want to lose face, didnt tell me,

in my job, and my industry, we would get absolutely crucified if we did this, sure sometimes mistakes happen and the above wil happen, but we will do our best to recitify the situation, regardless of how much its made us look stupid

3 hours ago, VBF said:

Reading this and other threads on "Face", I can't help thinking that in the West, whilst many people don't like to be made to look stupid (obviously) if one is discreet, one can point out their mistakes in a constructive way without a problem.

 

An example being an employee who does something seriously wrong. The boss can either yell and berate him/her publicly and make them look stupid (lose face), OR can take them to one side and explain the error of their ways. The latter approach will often (not always!) result in increased respect all round.

 

Now in Thailand, I've found that many Thai people regard even a private "telling off" as a loss of face.

I had a TGF who made some odd decisions with things like shopping and arranging trips - I would always tell her quietly and privately that "I think you're wrong, because......."

It took ages before she understood that she could respond and we could discuss the matter without either of us losing face.

 

A hotel receptionist made a big error on my bill - when i pointed it out to her with just the 2 of us present, she took offence - eventually I had to involve a more senior person to get it resolved - I was completely right but the receptionist just wouldn't or couldn't see it. She wouldn't talk to me after that....loss of face, I presume.

 

So is it cultural, the result of the Thai education system....or....or.....??

if the receptionist the senior person had the same mentality, they would allow and justify the receptionists behaviour ,and would probably go as far as saying "its your fault for making her lose face, because you pointed it out"

I work in a customer service industry, and often I have to deal with irrate and rude customers,

sometimes its no ones fault, sometimes its their fault, sometimes its our fault,

regardless, I wouldnt be doing my job remotely competently  if I started ignoring customers because it hurt my feelings,

sometimes I want to grab a baseball bat and take a swing at them, but I dont

so in the above example, if the roles were reversed, I will bet my life that the receptionist (who is now the customer with a wrong bill) would simply say "oh ok, I made you lose face because you overcharged me, its my fault, ill just pay the overcharged bill and we can all be happy'

I dont think so!

6 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Loosing face is nothing more than a simple euphemism for fragile ego...

 

Of course, Loosing face is also common in the West, however, in a society where non-confrontationalism is key to successfully navigating your day, egos become massaged. In a society where fragile egos are so frequently massaged the concept of loosing face is more prevalent.

 

Thailand and many Asian cultures also do tend to massage the fragile egos more so than in Western countries, additionally, since childhood the male ego is massaged more-so than the female and hence the birth of the 'little prince syndrome', the spoilt young boy who can do no wrong.

 

Asians are generally more tolerant than Westerners where folk are more inclined to display a lack of tolerance for 'the silly stuff' thus the 'loss of face' and behavior associated with avoiding it goes unchecked and hence, when face is lost the owner of said fragile ego lacks the emotional tools to handle the situation, sometimes quite spectacularly.... 

id actually say asians are far less tolerant than westerners ,

obviously there are idiots in every society but I feel that asians do far more stupid, illogical and unproductive behaviour based on face.

when I was growing up, the first reference of face I heard was in a hong kong film, and the reference to losing face came up a lot, at that point I assumed it meant "loss of respect/image/reputation"

which fair enough, as any human being ,especially male, losing repsect or your reputation going down, really sux, and it hurts,

putting aside male ego for a second,

for example, if your superior points out a mistake that you made, in front of others and it made you look stupid, as long as it wasnt done malciously or over the top,  yes it hurts, yes it makes you look stupid, but its your mistake! so just because you lose face you are allowed to shutdown, have a cry, sulk, beat up your superior, or even stab him in the head?!?!?

yes, the boss could have been a bit more considerate and done it in private,

is that what they teach in schools?

hey little johnny, if the teacher asks you the answer to the maths problem on the board and you get it wrong, and teacher says wrong, its ok for you to behave like an idiot because you lose face?

In Japan, many people say face doesn't exist or is very minimal compared to western countries. 

True or not, it still exists I'm sure to a much smaller extent. . 

As far as I'm aware, during business merrings which is often done at the fold course, the supplier will deliberately lose to the customer so it doesn't hurt their feelings, so yes I guess you could call this behaviour as face. 

In the western country I can imagine the supplier bearing the customer in a game. Of. Golf or a drinking game, 

And then they'd laugh it off and continue as is

So another article popped up about the concept of Asians and losing face

It just reminded me of a aquaintance who went to a house auction, and realised the other bidder was also an Asian and was known to them

Turns out the aquantiance bid $50k over their budget just so they could win and not lose face. 

Earlier this year I was staying in a 5star hotel in bkk, I needed a metered taxi to the airport. I asked the bell boy to get me one with a meter specifically. One comes eventually and started the excuses. I got out and explained the situation to the bell boy who understood. And ordered me another one, he even spoke to the driver, and once I got in, same excuses. 

I got very angry with him as it had already been 15 mins and confronted him, 

He eventually while standing in front of me jst started talking to his colleague while ignoring me. 

Seems to me that most Asians use the "losing face excuse to behave badly. 

Like those 17 yr old kids years ago in pattaya or phuket that killed the farang that told them to Get off his parked motorbike because apparently they lost face 

Like that Asian fine dining restaunrt in my country recently that I tried to pay by card, and the waitress said we don't accept credit card, after I told her that I've been coming there for years and used card everytine, she proceeded to get angry with me and yelled "Credit card surcharge" 

Surely if you work in a company and the boss yells at you for making a mistake, you don't just ignore your boss or beat him with a stick,  

Moral of the story

A Kimchi a day doesn't keep the Ladyboys  away

3 minutes ago, Derek B said:

Better have a paramedic as apart of the film crew then...............

 

At least you don't need 3 types of toilets

17 hours ago, InfinityandBeyond said:

Maybe ship them all off to a "penal" colony and make a reality TV show: Survivor - Ladyboy Island? 

Is that paradise for any Ladyboy? 

Just now, Bluespunk said:

Being murdered by a fragile ego male isn’t anyone’s fault but the scum who carried out the attack. 

 

The victim is not to blame. 

Oh so if I was a woman and put a photo of the guys tiny penis on the internet an d his workplace and I got stabbed by him. 

It's not my fault. 

Cmon,  my friend 

Do you know how ridiculous you sound 

53 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

No.

 

Work it out for yourself.

Oh ok. So you can't justify it. Or have no valid reason. 

Got it

Easy to weed out the people with big opinions but no evidence or justification 

Just now, Bluespunk said:

I'm not trying to change mind sets

 

I'm stating victim blaming is wrong.

I just transferred 10k to some Nigerian prince who has promised me $100m 

If I get scammed by this low life scum, I'm the victim. 

Are you not going to blame me for the outcome? 

9 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

I can only respond to the posts that quote me.

 

You want a different response, raise a different point.

 

For the record I am saying she is 100% not responsible. 

10 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

I can only respond to the posts that quote me.

 

You want a different response, raise a different point.

 

For the record I am saying she is 100% not responsible. 

OK. I can repeat it now since eyou know 8 am. Quoting you

Saying the same thing over and over again is not an argument. 

Do explain why you think it's wrong 

3 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Makes absolutely no difference where I live.

 

Victim blaming is wrong.

Saying the same thing over and over again is not an argument. 

Do explain why you think is wrong. 

For the record I am not saying she is solely responsible 

3 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Not sure I would award the Nobel peace prize.

 

Victims are not to blame for the actions of scum..

I hope you teach your kids the ludicrous comments too. 

Hey son,  as long as the person is scum, you can do. Whatever you want

5 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Yes, they do.

 

The world over.

 

The victims of scum are not to blame for the actions of scum.

OK..... So one drug dealer kills another drug dealer execution style over a debt or territory. 

He is a victim of scum.... But how dare anyone put some responsibility on the victim. 

He should get the Nobel. Peace prize

Just now, Bluespunk said:

I am happy I don't indulge in victim blaming 

Thank you. You couldn't have better summarised my definition of "delusion" 

Hey, I've put on 20kg because I ate junk food every day, it's not my fault 

Just now, Bluespunk said:

Yes, they do.

 

The world over.

 

The victims of scum are not to blame for the actions of scum.

Oh cool, other than for mistaken identity, or the involved parties are mentally deranged 

I should be fearful of my. Life of getting shot by another guy who is the bf of a girl who I'm not having a multiple partner relaitonship

You guys who say she is blameless are deluded, 

Judt playing the politically correct card. 

If you're happy with that, that's your business. 

18 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

No.

 

There is only one person to blame and that is the filth who murdered her. 

 

There is no one else to blame. 

 

Especially the victim. 

Right.... So blameless people get killed in this fashion every day do they? 

Ludicrous, even an 8yr old could see it

2 minutes ago, oldlakey said:

Correct, but that does not sit well with those who claim to be open minded and modern

The killer should pay no doubt, but all the facts that led up to the murder should be reported and not censored

I like to have the full story not just half or just one side

 

What does being open and modern minded have to do with anything. 

She took risks and they backfired 

You play with fire, you get burnt

She shouldn't have been killed

But very little sympathy from. Me