richard_smith237

'Dumb' would be to make the sweeping generalisation you just have... Particularly in light of this thread which is also concurrently running...

Cars don't kill people, elephants do. People who drive haphazardly in cars kill people. Especially those who drive drunk and think they are doing okay. Elephants attack people every week somewhere and kill hundreds of people yearly because they are either mistreated, are approached hunting, poaching or out of curiosity and attack to defend themselves and or their young. They also attack for no reason besides territory. Transport is a necessity... Walking under and elephant is idiocy... it's not in the least bit surprising that Malcy merges those boundaries.

Yep... plenty of that going about.... People feel they 'have to take a side'.... there are a handful of folk who have taken the 'hang him high' stance, even without any clear evidence... They are using the fact the American showed remorse as an admission of guilt, while at the same time misunderstanding that the 'reckless riding charge' is simply just SOP. I'm also quite surprised that a few usual suspects have not automatically blamed the Thai lady as those characters only ever see Thai's as being in the wrong, even when there is no evidence. I also now understand your rationale to question helmet wear: Has this been a young lad on a pocket rocket, riding in without a helmet etc, it certainly would show a) inexperience and b) a disregard for safety that may translated to poor or reckless riding. Looking at all the safety gear both the Man and his female friend are wearing; Moto-Boots, Riding pants, Armoured riding jacket - it think its safe to assume they rode in full kit and were experienced riders. That doesn't necessarily mean they weren't going too fast etc - but the bike shows no indication of being dropped, which indicates to me that there was no excessive speed.

No its isn't.... a number of people have misinterpreted the charge as an indication of fault, its not, the charge is standard SOP when a death is involved (as explained earlier in the thread). No it doesn't - the response of the American simply shows and strong level of sympathy and sorrow under the huge strain of emotions - a normal human reaction, perhaps amplified with a knowledge of Thai customs. He was riding side by side with his friend (partner) there is no indication of reckless driving - your speculation is as daft as some others on this thread (but at least you are not showing outright bigotry). Always possible, but unnecessary if there is no proof or indication so far of the American being at fault. The 'friend' (female he was riding with) may be able to provide a witness statement. There's no information so far that highlights possible fault with either the motorcyclist or the pedestrian. He was wearing full protective riding gear - its a fair assumption that he was also wearing a helmet. What relevance does the helmet have anyway ?

There wouldn't be an answer - we'd be too busy 'hunter gathering' because we failed to learn from those who passed before us.... unless of course we didn't fail to learn, in which case our community would grow, evolve, and develop through a scientific renaissance into industrialisation where great minds prosper, establish theories based on observations and mathematics which are later proven..... ... as we intellectually evolve someone would develop improved means of communication whereby idiots are free to question all scientifically proven knowledge and ask dumb questions such as "If you had grown up not knowing anything about the current doxa, and if asked whether we move around the Sun or the Sun moves around us, what do you think your answer would be?" .....

Scooters ? Was it that hard to understand ???

I completely agree... I'll add to your point that 'rubber necking' actually causes accidents. However, 'rubber necking' and stopping (if safe to do so) because we are first on the scene are different things. When I'm riding / driving etc and something has happened, i.e. a major accident, of course its a natural human reaction to want to see whats going on so I'll want to look, but I can't becasuse of all the traffic around and elevated risk of an accident. I've been 'first at the scene' three times. 1) A drunk motorcyclist - hit the central barrier (and ended up on the other side of the road in heap) - I stopped, soon others arrived, I was able to get them to use their phones to shine their light (it was night and dark) to stop cars driving over him... (about 20ppl in total helped in the end - I stopped the guy from getting up when he gained conciousness - he was breathing and had a strong pulse - not much more I could do. Paramedics came and I left. 2) Motorcyclist was side swiped by another (who fled), Motorcyclist was not injured, but bike was damaged. I was following and had it all on dash-cam. Police arrived and I gave them the dash-cam footage (Motorcyclist and BiB were thankful). 3) Incredibly drunk motorcyclist weaving about - I was following. The rider just slowed and then rode off the road into the grass, came off the bike. I slowed, to stop but he just sat up and looked ok - he was so drunk I didnt want to get involved so drove on. There are plenty of incidents where I wouldn't stop - I think each situation depends on its individual merit, risks, whether I am first there etc... In this incident - I see no reason for the following riders not to stop and at least call an ambulance.

They (the other motorcyclists were no going that fast), slowing and braking on that bend would not have impacted them. Thats not the reason they didn't stop... You imply its possible that they stopped out of screenshot - given their speed and the fact that they clearly did now slow, do you really believe they may have stopped ?? The good think about Thailand, and anywhere else - there are always good people around and someone always does stop - lots of stories on here attesting to people helping out in such situations.

Stop and call an ambulance at the very least. Riding past like that shows a lack of humanity. It is perhaps different for you as you can't speak Thai, but you could still flag down another car / bike and ask them to call and ambulance - thats just the human thing to do, especially if you are first on the scene. If there are a load of other people there already, then I see no reason to stop if you have no first aid training.

Sorry for your loss. However, it’s important to recognise that anecdotal evidence, while powerful on a personal level, does not establish a valid conclusion about the safety or efficacy of vaccines. This is because personal stories lack the rigorous context, controls, and analysis required to determine cause and effect. For example, many factors, such as underlying health conditions or unrelated medical issues, could explain the events you described, but they may coincidentally align with the timing of vaccination. Drawing conclusions from individual experiences is a logical error known as a non-sequitur - it doesn’t follow that because two events occur close together, one necessarily caused the other. That’s why we rely on large-scale clinical trials and continuous monitoring systems like VAERS, which evaluate millions of cases with scientific rigor. These systems consistently show that vaccines are overwhelmingly safe and effective, with the benefits far outweighing the risks for the vast majority of people. While personal stories are compelling, they cannot replace the careful analysis of large-scale data.

A notable example of virus isolation is the study titled "Isolation of the virus of herpes simplex and the demonstration of intranuclear inclusions in a case of acute encephalitis," published in The American Journal of Pathology in 1943. M.G. Smith, E.H. Lennette, and H.R. The link below shows an overview of virus isolation techniques, the chapter "Virus Isolation and Identification" in the book Laboratory Diagnosis of Infectious Diseases Principles and Practice. The chapter offers detailed insights into various methods and practices used in the field. https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-1-4612-3900-0_3? Isolation of SARS-CoV-2: The paper "Culture-Based Virus Isolation To Evaluate Potential Infectivity of Clinical Specimens That Test Positive for SARS-CoV-2" discusses the isolation of the SARS-CoV-2 virus from clinical specimens. https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/jcm.01068-20? Isolation of a Novel Coronavirus from a Man with Pneumonia in Saudi Arabia: This study, published in The New England Journal of Medicine in 2012, reports the isolation of a novel coronavirus (later known as MERS-CoV) from a patient with pneumonia. https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa1211721? Direct Detection of Polioviruses Using a Recombinant Poliovirus Receptor-Transgenic Mouse Model: This study discusses the development of a transgenic mouse model expressing the human poliovirus receptor, facilitating the direct detection and isolation of polioviruses. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0259099& Enhanced Isolation of Influenza Viruses in Qualified Cells: This research explores the use of MDCK33016PF cells for the isolation of influenza viruses, demonstrating higher isolation rates compared to traditional methods. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41541-021-00415-3.pdf?

I don't disagree that we can continue to research what nature has to offer. I don't believe pharmacology proceeded in a vacuum - in fact I know it doesn't. Scientific and medical facts prove you are wrong. The debate has really become too dumb now.. I'm out.... all the best.

Correct - but with that comment, you highlight your ignorance again. Bacteria is grown in a petri-dish, Viruses cannot grow or replicate independently in a petri dish because they are obligate intracellular parasites, meaning they require a host cell to reproduce - which is why they do replicate in Cell and Tissue Cultures. I partially agree that we must learn to fully appreciate what nature has to offer, but not through ignorance of medical science.

Seriously ????

Arguable, but the binary argument is flawed at a basic point. Advancements in our health have been for multifaceted reasons and range from.... Improved Sanitation: Clean water systems, proper waste disposal, and improved hygiene practices have reduced the transmission of waterborne diseases like cholera and typhoid, as well as other infections. Access to Clean Water: Safe drinking water has drastically lowered waterborne illnesses, including typhoid, diarrhea, and parasitic infections, improving health and longevity. Vaccination: Widespread immunisation programs have eradicated or controlled many infectious diseases, such as smallpox and polio, preventing millions of deaths. Antibiotics and Antiviral Therapies: The development of effective drugs to treat bacterial and viral infections has drastically reduced mortality rates from once-deadly illnesses. Nutrition and Food Safety: Better understanding of nutrition and implementation of food safety regulations have decreased malnutrition and foodborne illnesses. Public Health Policies: Initiatives such as quarantine measures, health education, and monitoring of disease outbreaks have helped curb the spread of infectious diseases. Advances in Medical Science: Progress in diagnostics, surgical techniques, and chronic disease management has improved overall health outcomes.

Oh no... I keep coming back for more !!.. You've never seen doppler ultra-sound results ? had a contrast CT Scan ? There is duality to viruses. They are important to our bodies and play both beneficial and neutral roles. They regulate bacterial populations in the gut, train and strengthen the immune system, and contribute to human evolution by transferring genes. Viruses are also used in therapies, such as gene editing and cancer treatment. Additionally, they help maintain microbial balance and support overall health. So viruses do exist or they don't ?.... It seems you think 'bad viruses' don't exist, and good ones do !!!

I'm actually finding this thread to be educational - not from a virological perspective, but from the perspective of learning that such outlandish ignorance in the face of proven fact can still exist. Its one thing when a poster is clearly stupid without knowing it - the debate can be entertaining in a laugh at sort of manner. In this case the 'anti-vaxer' is clearly intelligent - it is thus something new for me that someone of intelligence can be so abundantly ignorant. I suspect I am mistaking written eloquence for intelligence. Regardless, I agree with your sentiment - this silliness has run its course.

Given your content I doubt the groups you are a member of are anything more than an echo-chamber of ignorance. Your claim that no viruses have been isolated is factually incorrect and dismisses decades of documented scientific research. Virologists have isolated numerous viruses, including SARS-CoV-2, influenza, and HIV, using methods like cell culture, electron microscopy, and genetic sequencing, with findings published in peer-reviewed journals such as Nature and The Lancet. While Koch's postulates were foundational for microbiology, they were not designed for viruses, which require living cells to replicate; modern molecular techniques now provide more suitable alternatives to establish causation. The Enders approach, which enabled breakthroughs like the polio vaccine, represents a scientific advancement, not a rejection of foundational principles. Thousands of independent researchers globally have verified viral isolation, and a wealth of studies can be found in scientific databases, underscoring the robustness of this evidence.

Wrong... In pre-vaccine eras, average life expectancy ranged from 30 to 50 years, depending on other factors like sanitation, nutrition, and healthcare systems. Vaccines alone have added decades to life expectancy. Impact on Life Expectancy Without Vaccines Childhood Mortality: Many diseases targeted by vaccines disproportionately affect children. Historically, high childhood mortality due to infectious diseases was a significant drag on average life expectancy. Epidemics and Pandemics: Diseases like smallpox, measles, and polio caused recurring outbreaks with high death tolls, even among healthy adults. Lifelong Health Complications: Survivors of diseases like polio or measles often suffered long-term health issues, reducing overall quality and length of life. Estimate: In pre-vaccine eras, average life expectancy ranged from 30 to 50 years, depending on other factors like sanitation, nutrition, and healthcare systems. Vaccines alone have added decades to life expectancy in developed nations. Would Humans Evolve Through Survival of the Fittest? Natural Selection: In theory, without vaccines, individuals with genetic resistance to certain diseases would be more likely to survive and pass on their genes. Over many generations, this could lead to a population with increased resistance to those diseases. Trade-Offs: Evolution through "survival of the fittest" is a slow process, and it comes at the cost of immense suffering, high mortality rates, and reduced genetic diversity. Modern Context: Evolutionary pressures are less straightforward today because of globalisation, healthcare interventions, and the interconnectedness of human societies. Natural selection would not eliminate all vulnerabilities, as pathogens also evolve. Challenges Without Vaccines Increased Mutations and New Strains: High disease prevalence increases the chances of pathogens mutating into more dangerous forms. Economic and Social Impacts: High mortality rates from preventable diseases would strain healthcare systems and disrupt economies. Vulnerability in a Globalised World: In modern society, where travel is common, diseases would spread rapidly without vaccines, making outbreaks more difficult to control. Conclusion While humans might develop some level of resistance to certain diseases over generations, this evolutionary process would be slow and come at an immense human cost. Vaccines not only save lives but also prevent long-term suffering and enhance global stability. Without them, the balance would tilt toward higher mortality, reduced life expectancy, and persistent threats of pandemics. I can't believe I'm still responding... I'm doing so for two reasons: - I'm curious as to the extent of the ignorance you present. - I'm wondering what ridiculous notion you will come up with next.

What type of helmet ? how valuable ? I've never risked it as I have known helmets to go missing (in Bangkok) - when a helmet is 20,000 baht, its not worth the risk.

True - I'm struggling to comprehend the ignorance. Meanwhile I'm laughing at myself for getting dragged into this stupidity. I think I'll leave it now.... debating against this level of ignorance is exhausting - I'm waiting for a response along the lines of Viruses do not exist because we do not exist we are a digital construct !!!!...

Is that to say, given a choice you would never had had any vaccination (from Birth) ? Would you also not vaccinate your Childern ? - with vaccines against the following diseases (and the consequence of not having such vaccines) Hepatitis B (HepB) Chronic hepatitis, liver damage, cirrhosis, liver cancer, or death. Rotavirus (RV) Severe diarrhea, dehydration, hospitalisation, and in some cases, death (especially in infants). Diphtheria, Tetanus, and Pertussis (DTaP) Diphtheria: Breathing problems, heart failure, paralysis, or death. Tetanus: Severe muscle stiffness/spasms, difficulty swallowing, and death. Pertussis (Whooping Cough): Severe coughing fits, pneumonia, brain damage, or death (especially in infants). Haemophilus Influenzae Type B (Hib) Meningitis, brain damage, hearing loss, pneumonia, and death. Pneumococcal Conjugate Vaccine (PCV) Pneumonia, blood infections (sepsis), meningitis, and hearing loss or death. Polio (IPV) Paralysis (permanent), difficulty breathing, and death. Measles, Mumps, and Rubella (MMR) Measles: Severe respiratory infections, brain swelling, and death. Mumps: Swollen glands, meningitis, deafness, and infertility in men. Rubella (German Measles): Birth defects if contracted during pregnancy. Varicella (Chickenpox) Severe rash, pneumonia, brain inflammation, or death. Hepatitis A (HepA) Liver infection, jaundice, severe fatigue, and rarely, liver failure. Human Papillomavirus (HPV) Cervical, throat, anal, and other cancers; genital warts. Meningococcal Vaccines (MenACWY and MenB) Meningitis, blood infections (sepsis), limb loss, brain damage, or death. Without the above vaccines - life would be a game of chance.

Your argument to refute the existence of viruses such as SARS-Cov-2, Rabies Virus, Polio Virus, variola virus etc... makes any debate impossible... Not because you are 'winning' but because of the profound ignorance on display. It would be similar to debating with someone about the moon-landings and them arguing that the moon does not exist. Attempting such a discussion on any intelligent basis is impossible.

I'll present a three tiered response in separate comments: Firstly - there most definitely is a disease called rabies.... and it can get transmitted to humans through its saliva, usually via a bite, scratch, or lick on broken skin or mucous membranes (such as the eyes, nose, or mouth). Facts: Cause: Rabies is caused by a virus from the Rhabdoviridae family, specifically the genus Lyssavirus. Symptoms in Humans: Early symptoms include fever, headache, and general weakness. As the disease progresses, symptoms can include anxiety, confusion, agitation, hallucinations, hydrophobia (fear of water), difficulty swallowing, and paralysis. Once clinical symptoms appear, rabies is almost always fatal. Prevention: Vaccination: People exposed to potentially rabid animals should receive post-exposure prophylaxis (PEP), which includes a series of rabies vaccine doses and, in some cases, rabies immune globulin. Transmission: Rabies cannot be transmitted through casual contact like petting a dog or being near it unless saliva comes into contact with broken skin or mucous membranes. Without prompt treatment, rabies is almost always fatal once symptoms develop. In humans, the disease caused by the rabies virus is simply called rabies. When the infection progresses, it is often referred to as human rabies or rabies encephalitis (because it leads to inflammation of the brain). Early treatment after exposure (post-exposure prophylaxis or PEP) is highly effective in preventing the disease from developing.

Solid points - top manufactures such as Shoei counter this with custom fitting (with changeable padding to achieve the perfect fit)... Paddok in Bangkok has this option with their Shoei helmets. The quality of helmet and in many cases comfort of a perfect fit is impacted by price point.