richard_smith237

It doesn't look silly. But, it looks strange and out-of-place. Also, it is an invasion of personal space. Don't shake hands in Thailand! I wonder in who's eyes.... Its certainly not strange for me to see a Thai shake hands... I shake hands and Wai after every golf game with a Thai. I shake hands and Wai every time I meet my Father in Law and friends Parents etc I shake hands with friends after football game.... sometimes a Wai too depending on their instigation. Shake / Wai... just go with the flow in a relaxed manner.... none of it looks silly unless someone is a socially awkward person who doesn't know how to read signals, read the room or lacks awareness of simple social protocols. ------ I first notice this 'read the room' when in greeting people in Iraq years ago.... In the North the Kurds are very happy to shake a hand, then place their hand over their hearts..... (as a heartfelt greeting).... even the women are happy to shake your hand, although I'd wait for them to offer a handshake first..... In the south, its only hand over heart and a slight bow... sometimes its then a hand on both shoulders and a 'simulated' kiss on each side (leaving about 6" distance - but this is a whole new dynamic, one, two or three 'air-kisses' ??? - thats a tricky one).... But then in a 'professional meeting room'... its handshakes, but not with the females where its just a 'nod'..... The dynamic is different everywhere... But, to say 'I'm not going to try because I think they think I look silly'.... is the realm of the juvenile.... of course, don't try too hard, just read the room and allow this to happen naturally... This discussion on the wai, does indicate many lacks the basic's of 'reading the room' (i.e. lack observation skills so dont pick up on social cues).

Here's another dynamic.... You are in Thailand, have lived in Thailand all your life, Daughter is half Thai and introduces you her Boyfriend.... What do you expect ? ... If the BF is Thai (or half) I'd expect him to Wai me, or offer to shake my hand when meeting. ... if the BF is Western, I'd expect him to offer to shake my hand when meeting. and heres the kicker... ... If the BF is Thai or Western (or half) I'd expect him to Wai my Wife (Thai).... As far as the other discussion where the BF is older than the GF's father.... that's another different one... Not something I'd need to consider.... But interesting nevertheless. In that hypothetical situation, I think I'd still Wai the GF's father, even if I'm older, because I',m showing respect for his daughter by Wai'ing him and I think that would be considered important to them.... It could just be the thing that makes life a little easier. My FiL was never happy with his daughter dating a foreigner..... He was dead against it and it caused arguments at home. Yet, FiL was always polite with me, spoke well, shook my hand, returned my Wai's... and that was extremely important to me... I suspect it was extremely important to him that I also behaved in a manner respectful of him and his family - he'd had very little exposure to Westerners outside of some business dealings... and certainly none on a social or family level. Thus.... had I behaved like an entitled 'foreigner' refusing to Wai.... I think that relationship would have been very short lived.

It was an extremely easy social pathway to for me navigate because my Wife and I are of similar age and I'm about 35 years younger than my Father and Mother In Law - there was no doubt as to who should Wai first, and I had no doubt as to whether or not I'd give them a Wai.... ... as is I my custom when meeting one on one... I offered a Wai, then followed with a handshake. FiL & MiL have since met many of my friends, often in social situations and its interesting to see that social dynamic.... People I am in sports teams with or know socially, bump into us when we are out for dinner etc.... and they, of course, a respectful of my in Laws and Wai them when they are introduced.... I'm not saying everyone has to Wai, because some people clearly really object to the idea and start making up excuses as to why.... (often from a basis or ridiculous misunderstanding or projection)....... But, what I am saying is, offering and returning a Wai at the right time 'does' make a difference. So, for those who think never wai'ing makes any difference, I'd suspect they are never in such a setting for it to matter or with those who care so little of them or about them any passing evaluation or consideration is completely irrelevant, they're invisible and always disregarded to the fringes anyway.

I don't know who you hang around with.... But I've never heard a comment from a Thai that another foreigner returning their Wai looks silly..... You're projecting some imagined idea... that doesn't matter... but it does make me curious from a sociological point of view. No finger point or accusations - just open thinking: Western Guy in Pattaya - Wai'ing Bar Girls and McDonalds Staff and anyone etc - Yep, of course he's making a fool of himself. I think some foreigners thing any other foreigner who Wai's falls into this category. Western Guy in Kanchanaburi - Returning the Wai of a Thai friend he's been introduced to... He'd be rude not to, but if he shook hands, or nodded and smiled, it wouldn't be a big deal at all. Western Guy (younger) being introduced to close friends of his Wife's father (older)... and doesn't Wai.... He'd be rude not to, but may be forgiven for his ignorance, his Wife's father may be conscious of further introductions. Obviously there are numerous different scenarios and all can't be covered.... But I can cover one..... Never ever returning a Wai because you think Thai's think it looks silly is a guarantee that in 'some' situations you will be mentally labelled as someone who is impolite or just ignorant. While overtly very tolerant, just as many other people of many other cultures and nationalities are Thai's are also very judgemental under the surface, just as many other people of many other cultures and nationalities are.... And whatever it is you are doing and how you behave, mental note are taken, even if subconsciously.

Thats rather a strange interest in the specifics of someoene else's sporting wellbeing? You didn't consider the wellbeing of the Ops joints, muscles, any RSI from cycling, exposure to sun..... etc... Noooooo.... you wanted to know if his butt-crack and nut-sac haven't caused friction.... I suspect the only chaffing suffered by those riding any distances is the insufferable mental chaffing of reading halfwitted comments !!!

Is this you Big Nok ???

Yes and no..... IF the seller had any scruples they would have told Scouse that they are going to fix the phone themselves and not send it to Samsung.... ... The fact that the Op asked them to send the phone to Samsung and they didnt leaves two possibilities. a) Misscommunication and the shop simply figured the Op wanted the phone fixed and they could do that. b) Clear Communication and the shop figured the could apply a 1000 baht fix and profit 1500 baht and not care about voiding the warranty. The issue very clearly.... make sure there is 100% understanding between shop and customer, nail down specifics and leave no room for ambiguity.... (this is a lesson learned for me).... Wife in the Past has implied I'm giving staff a hard time when asking so many specific questions to dig out an 'underlying truth' when they are being vague and unspecific with an answer..... Also... if something is of value and within warranty, just go straight to the manufacturers main point of sale and bypass the middleman / 3rd party vendor.

I have an iPhone... If I had a cracked screen and some-one quoted 1000 baht or 5000 baht for a repair / replacement, I'd have no idea if that was right or not.... I had have to turn to the internet and get a better ball park. The difficult of course, is that the ball park figures we get here may not be the official repair charges, it may be a localised repair. I think the issue highlighted in this topic is that it was not clarified that the repair was not with Samsung and the Samsung Warranty is not itself voided. It seems the Op specifically asked for the 'Samsung' Repair and not a localised repair - and this is an issue, Thainess has crept in, someone has seen their angle for squeezing a profit, ultimately at the cost of someone else (in this case the Op). The only thing to do in future is to never trust 3rd party re-sellers and deal directly with the manufacturers at point of sale.

In fact he shouldn't have even bothered to get the phone fixed, right?.... its quicker and easier to just go out and get a another... In fact its quicker still to buy two phones at the same time, just in case one of them breaks... After all, its only 11,500 baht.... Yes... For those unable to tell the difference, the above is a sarcastic facetious response to the utter dumbflukkery presented in reatrius's post which completely over looks the issue of duplicitous business practices and dealing with liars.... when instread choosing a dumbed down, oversimplified haltwitted response in attempt to be a wizeAr$e and instead highting a certain degree of knobheaderry...

Should make for more news in the upcoming weeks.... Pattaya One... "Frenchman on big-bike decapitates himself on barrier" Thai Thaiger... "Decapitated Foreigner hits pole in high speed accident" Ensuant debates: - what is a big bike?..... thats not a French name.... ban tourists on motorcycles, I thought they'd banned rental shops from renting to tourists without a licence, perhaps he lived here and a had a license, how can The Thaiger get the report so wrong !!!1

Yup... Quite often in the UK I'm no a road an I have no idea if I'm in a 30, 40, 50, or 60mph limited area... How is that possible ? Lots of rural country roads where the speed limit through a village can be 30mph... but then outside of the village its back to national limit of 60mph... then some hamlets have a 40mph limit and others area's with a 50mph limit.... If you've missed the sign (or the sign was dirty, turned around or knocked over etc), then you're left wondering what limit you're in doing 30mph with an irate white van driver right up behind you !!!... .... while stuck in the UK over Covid I had a car which had the HUD and it showed the speed limit which 'flashed' if I exceeded it and adjusted with excellent precision upon crossing the boundary of a speed limit zone - Great idea, and yes, why not on all cars. BUT... I also thought, if they can do this, why not just electrically limit the speeds of cars within these zones anyway ??? I guess the answer of course is liability - Imagine the Car going down the Motorway at a speed limit of 70mph, and the GPS thinks the car is in the green lane in the field adjacent to the motorway with a limit of 20 mph - a lethal combination and legal minefield in the event of an incident.

From a points perspective yes.... But you'll still get the fine. Recently I got caught for doing a 33 mph in a 30 zone.... (which means I was probably doing closer to 36 mph - if we factor in the tollerances). It was a 3 point Penalty (if we hit 12 we're banned from driving for a year I think). With points insurance premiums are also affected, but only from 6 and up I think (as nearly everyone has 3 points these days )... It was a £100 fine... With penalties this severe - it makes me very careful about my speed when driving around the UK.... Conversely, driving in Thailand is alot more haphazard and I hardly look at the speedo.. I wonder, when driving in the UK how much of may attention is taken from the road onto my speedo to ensure I'm never drifting over a limit... More dangerous ?... think there's scope for a debate about how the strictly enforced speed limits could potentially cause distraction to drivers watching their speedo too closely....

Good luck if you want to go to any or all of those 90 countries with 100% assurance that you can hire a car on your Thai DL only in any of the the 90 or so countries... ..... OR... or take the 'no-brainer' option and spend 20 mins getting IDP and remove any doubt at all that you can drive anywhere without issue. I'm surprised its even discussion to be honest.

Do you have a work permit for giving out such legal advice ?.....

I agree with you..... .... of all the trucks and cars that have mowed down and taken out cyclists, its 100% because the cyclist was in front of them...

I completely concur.... Whenever we are riding a motorcycle of bicycle and another vehicle passes us without any incident... its because they have noticed us and not through any additional observation or skill on our part.... We can position ourselves, well, ensure we have better visibility etc... but ultimately, when it comes down to the nuts and bolts of it, we are not 'mown down' because of one single reason - the driver of the passing vehicle saw us and manoeuvred around us... So those who are under the belief that they can have a rear-view mirror and can somehow take avoiding action to avoid a rear-impact are seriously over egging their riding observation and abilities to the point of being completely delusional.

This is the strange part for me.... It seems the reason you refuse to Wai is because you think you look silly doing so or you don't want to look like you are 'trying' to impress them. ... and then you consider someone else's sense of 'expectation' and project that they don't expect that you offer a Wai as you expect that they don't expect it... ... Almost as if you are walking around going..... 'nope... no wai... nope, not doing it, nope, don't return the wai they don't expect it and I don't want to look like I'm trying too hard to impress anyone, they should already be impressed by my mere presence !!!!!!'..... I'm not suggesting you 'should wai'... its an individual response of course, but I do think your reasons for not doing so is based upon a flawed understanding which is just a little odd.. Your refusal to wai because you think it looks silly, is the same as you thinking a Thai would look silly putting their hand out to shake a westerners hand, or if putting your right hand on your heart and giving gentle nod when meeting an Arab in a respectful setting... All a little too much overthinking it with this stuff..... as always mentioned in these topics, the key point is to show an attempt to present respectfulness and acknowledging a greeting etc... as you pointed out, a nod and a smile from a foreigner suffices and thats fair enough... But you have also suggested that 'Thais laugh behind the back of foreigners who Wai'.... and this is where you get it wrong, and if this is the reason you refuse to wai, then your decision is based on a flawed understanding of the local culture....

Wifey just popped down the road to nearly a shop on the street to get me some 'pre-made' potion.... Quite an interesting visit for her, some very helpful locals in the shop coming out of the woodwork to give her advice. So, I have this green, disgusting looking, bitter tasting mixture.... I've had a 5 small 50ml glasses over about an hour and the 'woosy head' feeling kicked in... ... its a little bit like being drunk without the taste pleasures of a fine single Malt, rather the opposite in fact. .... The Pain killing side definitely works - and I'm really glad I have paid attention the comments of those on this forum and this thread, I can relax a little more without having to hit the Tramadol up to the permitted limits (which didn't seem to do a lot). BUT.... I also had a 'spinney feeling'... like a loss of balance, head spinning slightly, which when mild is not discomforting, but it has lead to wooziness and made me feel a little nauseous... I just chunderred !!! - Wife concerned, Mother in Law (who is also staying) somewhat entertained at her 'Western Son in Law going in for the local potion'.... turns out, MiL is a dark horse, much to my Wife's surprise, Both MiL and FiL have been making 'tea' out of the leaves..... Good on em !!... Wife is very cautious about me taking this course of medication which is not 'prescribed by a major International hospital'... .... but the pain-killing aspect makes this work perusing.... I just have to be careful going to the loo when I'm partially immobilised (injury)... I just have to work out the 'ideal dose' to hit that pain killing sweet-spot. Wife was told this stuff is going to keep me awake.... (its good for work etc)... But to be honest, I could take a nap right now !!!... Anyway - thanks all for the info and advice.

It was in this part LL... Quote: [This woman reported that on Sunday night, she was driving her car from Pattaya to her home in Huai Yai Subdistrict. She didn’t spot the foreigner riding his bicycle in the right lane while driving at high speeds, so she crashed into him violently. She drove home first, out of fear and shock, and then called the police and offered to surrender the next morning] The impact on the drivers side windscreen indicates the bicyclist was to the right side of the car upon impact. The state of the rear wheel of the bicycle indicates the cyclist was struck from behind. It seems to add up that the cyclist was riding in the right hand lane and and driver simply didn't see him with tragic consequences. It would appear that the cyclist had lights (or it looks like a rear-light).... this, it can be assumed that the driver simply was not paying attention... (on the phone ?)...

walking feels more dangerous That depends where you are I think.... I recall riding from central Bangkok to Wat Khlong Toey Nok Pier and taking a small boat across to Bang Kachao.... The ride was perilous... It was the motorcyclists which were the worst... A moto-taxi actually overtook me, then slammed on the brakes in front of me to drop of their passenger, I slammed on the anchors and the bike slipped away from under me... remaining on my feet luckily.. The moto-taxi's were extremely helpful and the guy apologetic - they don't ride deliberately badly, its just the way they ride, without consideration or care for anyone else. It was when I was riding along one of the roads towards the port I realised how perilous my situation was... Huge lorries passing me and they are not passing with a decent gap, they were 1-2 feet away.... one wobble, one bit of bad road, on snag of the front wheel on grading and I'm on the ground.... head perilously close to 10's of tonnes of crushing weight on a wheel - squashed head... Nope... no thanks... Next time I went across to Bang Krachao it was with the family - we drove to the ferry... took the bikes across on a mini-adventure, but even then, on the quiet roads over there some of the vehicles (mainly delivery box pickups), pass at speeds I consider too fast for the road, at distances too close when the guy give far wider space.... IMO - Thailands roads users, certainly in the busier metropolitcan areas are just not mature enough to allow for safe riding. I think I if were 'up country' somewhere a lot quieter, it might be an extremely pleasant way to get around on a daily ride, stop off at a few mom & pop cafe's on the way, have a bite for breakfast etc... make friends... Could be lovely.... until the d-head in the Box Pickup loaded up on Kratom screams into while reading his phone....

I won't ride a Motorcycle at night, or in the Rain here - unless absolutely necessary, for the very reasons you allude to. BUT... any driver hitting a motorcyclist from the rear in the cases is wholly in the wrong. This doesn't help the Op in any way, but measures to deal with such issues need to be address. Thailand needs to take a proactive action rather than being lazy and taking a reactive response. - Any driver leaving the scene of an incident - charged severely for leaving the scene (a more significant charge than DUI). - Any driver involved in an incident tested for Alcohol and drugs. - 100% no exclusions - everyone treated the same, same penalties. The message has to be 'put out there' that drivers are 100% responsible for their actions and the only way to get this message across is to put the fear into them that the will be charged IF breaking any laws, the greatest of which would be to 'escape' the scene. Currently escaping the scene gives drunk drivers time to detox.... this legal loophole of being able to report oneself within 24 hours enables drink drivers to such a degree it is perhaps a major underling / root cause of a lot of evening, late night and early morning 'incidents' (I'm reluctant to call them accidents because when a drunk driver gets in a car, its no long an accident, its a criminal incident and should be treated as such).

As explained earlier.... For someone who is into cycling, these are not extreme distances. Theses only seem extreme distances to fat slobs who sit at beer bars all day long. I've never cycled that much in one go, the max I've done is when I went through a phase of doing two laps of the Sky-Lane 4x per week (which is specifically 9776 kms - but likely less as there were days I missed - so from a personal perspective 6-7000 kms as someone who's not that into it, is very very doable). I know plenty of folk who do and these distances and much more. I would cover about 20-30 kms a week just through playing football - the distances covered with cycling are just far far more vast. When I was younger and competitively swimming - I would cover about 900 km a year in training. Thus: I'd suggest anyone levying the accusation of 'Liar' post a photo of themselves - and we'll see exactly why such distances would seem impossible to them...

Fair enough & sorry to hear about your finger disabilities... your experience highlights why cash is also so very necessary. IMO - Its stupid of a business to reject any form of payment.

You're not posting your perception and opinion as fact are you ?????...

It's doable.... its about 1 hour cycling every day... So.. if someone goes for a 2 hours cycle, thats only 3-4 days per week... good exercise. I know guys who do 3 laps of the Sky Lane 3x per week... they're easily covering more than 10,000 km per year... and thats when they are not doing their 150 km weekend rides etc.... Some people are 'just into it'...