richard_smith237

Yep... I guess so... but isn’t that the same as all the motorcyclist pulling away from a set of traffic lights ? I guess these guys were acting like tools and drew attention.... were rightly fined... would Thai guys be fined the same amounts ? Hopefully multiple fines - no helmet as well as causing a nuisance. Did they have licences ? the police would have confiscated their bikes if they had no licences, right ??? hmm... or would the police have taken their money (fine) and let them continue riding ? None of this is a deportable offence though... unless one really is the consummate GOM...

In experienced tourists, unlicensed, untrained, unfamiliar with the traffic here, riding in flip-flops.... Drunks, red-light jumpers, speeders, no helmets, those who take chances etc etc..... All add to the aggregate statistics for accidents and road deaths... Those who ride with the above traits contribute proportionately more to the accident & fatality stats than those who ride very carefully.... Possibly, that perhaps alludes to mechanical knowledge, how motorcycles work etc.. it could also be argued that young men would drink and ride more, take more risks etc... My point though all of this is that a 40 year old guy whose been living here for 15years, doesn’t drink and ride, doesn’t ride at night, wears a helmet, doest speed, rides defensively, shows great awareness etc is at far less risk of an accident than the aggregate 76% motorcyclist road fatalities suggest. That does not mean there is no risk... but when 'risk behaviour’ and cause is considered those who are more careful may not face and greater risk than riding a motorcyclist in their home country. Kwilco doesn’t like this because he wants to blame things such as road layout etc... which of course are also contributory factors, but he wants to ignore other significant factors because he thinks discussing ’local factors’ such as lack of rider / driver education, lack of safety awareness, more drunk riding etc is somehow racist.

I agree that there is far more to road accidents than the simplified observations commonly made. But, I disagree that the simplified observations are wrong, they simply do not cover the whole picture, road design, weather, even general safety culture all play a significant role. For example.... there are far less ‘careful riders’ involved in accidents (and road deaths) than ‘careless’ riders.... If you are going to outright disregard that then you face significant challenges in overcoming a lack of basic common sense and it is you who fails to understand road safety. The stats I presented are flawed, there are so many variables that its impossible to capture specific risk in such examples. However, the stats are presented to highlight how the 76% motorcyclist road fatalities in Thailand are not representative of the risk we all (who ride) face when riding a motorcycle in Thailand. We remove ourselves from the most dangerous situations through our actions (not drinking, defensive riding, experience, training, not riding at night or in the wet etc). There are many accidents which happen in situations many of us (riders) would not place ourselves in - that lowers our risk profile such that it may not be too dissimilar to the risk profile we face when riding overseas in our home countries. For some strange reason you thought that was racist as well which highlights you are not concentrating on the point, but in too much of a hurry to flame and argue.

Some posters would wish to see foreigners deported for passing wind !!.... They were reported as ‘reving’ their engines..... The bikes looks like ‘scooter’ style bikes without a clutch, I’m not sure how those can be ‘reved’ without accelerating off !!!.... the story may have been somewhat embellished. No doubt they were behaving like tools though and drew plenty of attention hence the reports.... But deportation ?.... Some of you posters are so unhinged and unbalanced you want everyone deported for everything !!!...

In cities with numerous nodes of business, areas entertainment and districts the term 'downtown' is not really appropriate... i.e. in Bangkok depending on your perspective down town could be Siam, Asoke, Saladeng, Sathorn.... too many different ‘nodes’ which is why no-one says ‘downtown’ in Bangkok because there is no definitive ‘downtown’ centre.

Let her walk !!!!…. Always potential issues with engine replacements etc…. If you can easily afford a new car get one, they’re safer etc she’ll get used to it.

Your response only flames my efforts to rationalise the statistic in such a way that they are more representative for a trained, experienced & careful rider. Do you think I face the same risk on a motorcycle as a drunk 20 year old without a helmet? The stats were placed into that very context, I just don’t think you like the results so took to flaming. You have not offered any input of your own… how about using some data for that, or are the facts also racist ?

basic misunderstanding of road safety there - it is a failure of the road environment - drivers are universally the same - unless you believe in a racist interpretation. hmm.. how about a bit of gaslighting combined with a dash of virtue signalling ???? There’s nothing racist at all in suggesting that Thailands roads may be more dangerous because there is less driver education etc... thats a simple observation completely devoid of any racial connotation. BUT... in your haste to argue you actually missed the point I was making to suggest that for ‘careful’ road users the danger is not as significantly high as the statistic initially suggest.

Please explain how the statistic have been misinterpreted.... if you can.... Either you are correct and my numbers are well off... or it is you who in fact ‘just does not get it’.. Start with... How many motorcyclists deaths involve those not wearing helmets, then consider how many of them may have been drunk, then how many of them were speeding / racing, how many of them were inexperienced, how many of them were riding carelessly (not defensive riding).... Punch some numbers and see what you come up with instead dumb one liners which provide nothing.

And yes... I am convinced of my point about the statistics: 76% of road fatalities are motorcyclist - but that 76% is not representative of the risk to me because of measures I take to cut out the major issues... (speeding, drunk riding, night time riding, helmet etc)... It would be a guess, but I would guess perhaps less than 20% of road fatalities were riders, wearing a helmet riding carefully, day time, sober, not speeding etc etc... and that is more representative of the risks ‘trained, experienced and careful' foreign riders face.... Stats on that 20%... There are 21,730,000 motorcycles in Thailand. IF 20% road fatalities are responsible motorcyclist. 5000 motorcyclist deaths per year. = 23 motorcyclist deaths per 100,000 bikes. There are 1,250,000 motorcycles in the UK 285 motorcyclist deaths per year. = 22.8 motorcyclist deaths per 100,000 bikes. When removing the drunk, speeding, helmet-less, night time, untrained riders the risks are not exactly dissimilar.... The numbers are just so high here because there are so many more motorcyclists, covering so many more miles and taking so many more risks while doing so...

Nothing is without risk. But the risk as I evaluate it is less than the aggregate statistics suggests for the reasons I posted. Other road users are a danger in other countries too, of course, more so in Thailand, but it's still not that bad when riding in day time, dry conditions. The drunks on the road is a problem here which is why I won’t ride at night, yes, you can argue there are drunks in the daytime, but it's a lot less. A similar thing happened to my friend, a car didn’t take the corner and drove on straight into her, a head on impact killing her instantly... This was in the UK, she was in a car. Sorry for the loss of your friend, but anecdote is just that.

Its not the same out story though is it... she had insurance for starters !

Only fools who have no idea of the risks because they’ve never ridden here make such statements. 76% of Thailands roads fatalities are motorcyclists. Of those, many / most were drunk, speeding, riding dangerously, racing, riding at night, no lights. Someone who rides defensively cuts their risk significantly such that the aggregate statistics are no representative of the risk they are taking.... But, if someone is the type of person to speed while riding drunk, at night then their risk profile is significantly elevated.

Depends on what their definition of "hiso is" some people seem to confuse it with middle/upper class. Its a valid point, there is no ‘specific qualifier’ for what is ‘hi-so’..... For the term I use it in its not just wealthy, but wealthy with connections at a very high level, well educated etc... Example: I know a Western guy married to a Thai lady from a ‘hi-so’ background. Politicians at the wedding (up to Dept Primeminister level), about 1000 people attended. Ambassadors, present and retired (friends of his inlaws, and parents of her friends), ‘big business’ people... Wedding was in the papers and a couple of magazines which have also invited them to numerous events etc (HiSoParty Magazine, Thai Tattler etc). In Laws are business owners, she went to top Thai Uni’s (Rangsit then Masters at Thammarsat) was not allowed to study overseas like her brother. Father in law not best impressed that his daughter was dating a foreigner at first, after marriage they get on extremely well. Child goes to Bangkok Patana School. The guy doesn’t consider him or his wife hi-so at all, but other Thai’s all state she [the Wife] is. The Wife’s friends, many of whom would be considered hi-so by any description are marred to extremely wealthy and successful Thai men, some of them are also married to Western men., some very wealthy and successful, others more ’normal’ and by normal I mean Lawyer, CFO, Business Management type level not language teachers etc... BUT... just by looking a & bumping into the couple’s walking around Emporium etc its difficult to tell, he just looks like any other ’smart similarly aged couple’.... The only way many of us could tell they are hi-so is to be told so... but Thai’s can recognise ’status’ within their own culture more easily than we can.

Don’t be daft... there are plenty of western guys who have dated and married women other Thai’s would describe as hi-so....

Hahaha, good joke. You obviously have no experience with this type of woman. You couldn’t be further from the truth with that response !!!

It's not Thai bashing... its ‘Thai Police Bashing’.... theres a difference and from personal experiences to those we read in the news the ‘bashing’ is quite warranted...

Thai-bashing machine is in full force also...yet again, for no rational reason. Following such a spell of negative publicity for the Thai Police even the most uncynical of us predicted a series of ‘positive stories’ and this is exactly what we got. It was less than 24 hours ago on another thread that people (myself included) were predicting the onset of ‘positive police’ stories...

Bingo..... Like clockwork !!!!....

Such poor reading comprehension…. One really wonders how some people cope with everyday tasks……

Yes…. I have this exact card (MCard) and use it all over… Europe, Middle East, Japan… no issues at all. I’ve never withdrawn cash with it though. & Emergency cash, I’ve no idea. Standard Thai ATM cards (I.e. SCB & BKK bank savings accounts) can be used to withdraw cash overseas.

I know a couple of extremely wealthy females who are still single.., 40’s… (hi so, family have ‘titles’) they seem to date well off Thai guys who are utter card-board !!!! (Boring, but wealthy fops)… I sometimes wonder if these women would be better dating foreigners who at least have character….

‘Usually’… ‘normally’…. People ‘usually’ marry within their own culture too….. are more comfortable dating within their own culture… Of course, expats break this mold & so do the girls who are provided access to financial security by dating & marring outside of their culture (i.e. poorer Thai girls & western men)…. But we are stepping outside of that demographic when looking to ‘step up the socio-economic ladder’… Education & particularly social education through modern media means barriers that may have previously existed are no longer the quite the ‘Everest’ to scale…. If that’s what you are after. IMO it’s easier for a ‘normal Westerner’ to date a well to do Thai lady than it is a ‘normal’ Thai….

We still need those "Police find and return 1MB” threads.... As mentioned by others on other threads.... The mere fact that the Police actually doing something positive becomes newsworthy speaks volumes and is damning of the big-picture of policing Thailand.

I’d first suggest you rid yourself of the ‘grammatical error’ if you are ever to refer to yourself as ‘cream of the crop’ again !!! Then you should also know that ‘alphas’ are already bad ass enough not to need to ask such questions !! But for sure, you deserve something..... Give Thermae Cafe a try... women there should definitely be worthy of your excellence !!!