richard_smith237

‘Wibble’....

About 60 days. AZ in Thailand (early June) Pfizer - Outside of Thailand (early July) Pfizer - Outside of Thailand (early Aug) Only side effects seem to be an increased intolerance of poorly formed generic anti-vax arguments / discussions !

He may or may not have had it. But, he [BritManToo] has stated as fact that he had Covid-19 and used the lack of severity of symptoms to justify an opinion that Covid-19 is not serious and that a vaccine is unnecessary.

The argument to compare ‘other deaths’ to covid has little relevance unless the cause of those deaths are readily transmissible and readily preventable with a vaccine. Mitigation against road accidents are already in place, mitigation against passive smoking is already in place. Dealing with your examples: driving is a necessity and this safety standards are implemented, an outright ban would of course be silly and you know that. Using road deaths in a comparison with a respiratory disease is flawed. Smoking: Peoples make their own choice to smoke. With the current laws and controls to prevent passive smoking people only hurt themselves, its their own choice. But, when people choose not to vaccinate against Covid-19 they present a higher risk than a vaccinated person of transmitting SARS-Cov-2 to those who cannot get vaccinated or for whom the vaccine is infective - these people do not have a choice. Ultimately, you have compared apples to oranges, and done so poorly.

*deleted post edited out* People ‘at the end of their lives’...... Question... if someone ‘at the end of their lives’ has their life cut short by covid-19, how much time is acceptable, 3 months, 6 months, 2 years ?.... If we were to loose a parent to Covid-19, can we accept 2 weeks, we’d be pretty upset if Covid-19 ‘stole’ 2 years of life. This is the issue when people ‘coldly’ state, it is only the old who are dying. The reality is also different. I know young people who have had covid and while they were not killed, they suffered badly. A 21 year old girl (healthy, a runner) was in a mess, bed ridden. Another, a work colleague, mid 40’s was in a high dependency unit for a few weeks, moments away from needing a respirator. That said: I do agree with you... IF governments were as concerns as other major killers, they’d plow more money into things like cancer research, and do more to limit sugar etc, encourage exercise etc None of the above detracts from the severity of covid-19. Because ‘other bad stuff’ happens, it does not mean covid-19 is any less severe.

What ever it is you’ve taken... I want some !

Provide yourself with a pre-emptive solution. Edit your Vaccination Certificate (which is very likely in PDF) with a PDF editor and add in your passport details. I’ve done this already to resolve the same potential issue. I did e-mail the issuing authority (of the Vaccine Certificate) and have had no response - thus, I was left with little choice but to resolve the minor issue myself - no biggie. No need to be too rigid and maintain stumbling blocks when they can easily be demolished with a little ‘creativity’.

Easily solved by the next lorry jumping the light or watching his phone has he passes the junction and shunts the car off the rail.... .... Apologies, Bazza.... thats not a fact.

Oh don’t know... my opinion is that your comment was somewhat pedantic, whether or not that is fact is debatable. I do think you are missing the point of a discussion forum.

So you were there. Any photos or video? Or maybe only one vehicle ran the light as the biker said, and you made the rest up, Why? why? because its a forum designed for discussion, comments, opinions, ideas debate. If you don’t want comments, read a news site !!! Anyone who has been here any length of time has seen how cars speed up as the countdown for the lights approaches zero... we have all seen the number of cars jumping lights seconds after its turned red. I’m always astonished how many cars follow me through an amber light (often 4 or 5 !!!) and the speed up and get right up close behind.... to squeeze through the light.

Definitely agree, but in Thailand when so many people don’t even bother with a licence to drive a car or ride a motorcycle society is most definitely not ready for this. Not because society can’t follow the rules, but because they don’t need to because the rules are rarely enforced. In many countries owners are responsible for any attack or injuries, damage etc a dog may cause, as such there is a stronger incentive for pets to be trained. This doesn’t stop the attacks from happening, but stronger penalties for an owners lack of responsibility could cut down the incidence of attacks. Within the month we’ll read of another attack, a child, mauled.... the same comments, the same debates, the same causes - poor training, poor ownership, lack of responsibility of owners. In that specific case it was a stupid argument. The child was in a residential street (not a main road with passing cars) and the parent was also stood in the street as the 3 year old was riding a bike. A dog which had escaped from a nearby house simply ran straight up to the child and attacked it, the mother was stood in the road 2m from the child and reacted immediately, but the child had already been mauled in a matter of seconds. ‘Should have known better’.... perhaps, should a child also know better ?? where is the line drawn with responsibility. A burglar at night - I think we’d all agree that its their own fault if they break in and are attacked by dogs. But, other circumstances.... when someone is innocent, the man delivering lemons, a child, emergency response, a new post man etc etc...

There is no ‘long term data’ for the Influenza vaccine, it changes every year as it tracks the drift of seasonal influenza. If we are to wait 10 years for the long term safety of the Covid-19 vaccines to be studied a number of issues will exist. Firstly, many many more will die pointlessly and by the time the Vaccine has passed all trials it is useless as the vaccine is no longer effective against new variants. The vaccine technology has been around for a long time, viral vector, deactivated virus, dead virus, mRNA vaccines. Now - how many of those questioning the safety of the Covid-19 vaccines actually paid any attention to the safety of the MMR vaccines, TB vaccine, Polio Vaccine, Meningococcal vaccine, Tetanus... etc etc... ??? Yes, there were ‘anti-vaxxers’ for the other vaccines, but even the ‘anti-covid-vax’ folk want to separate and differentiate themselves from the real anti-vax nutters.

I agree... Don’t ‘blame the dogs’..... 'blame the owners’... If a child grows up in vacuum without an moral guidance is the child wrong if when it reaches age of physical strength he/she kills another human? - the ‘person’ then does not know ‘right from wrong’, nevertheless the horrible reality is that that ‘person’ cannot live within society as he/she is a danger. The same can be said of dogs which attack, with their absence of consciousness they have no idea of moral right from wrong, but that animal can not live within society as it is a danger.

Exactly this..... I am on my 3rd return to Thailand (since the outbreak) - First two were ASQ (15 nights and 10 nights) - this time is is 14 nights Sandbox and a much more palatable prospect than being locked up in a hotel room. It's also much nicer being able to spend the same amount of money on a pool villa than a hotel room in Bangkok. The prospect of being free to go to restaurants, go to the beach, rent a motorcycle and ride around and even go to a bar for a few beers makes the outlook potentially enjoyable. Additionally, there also the prospect of brining my family down to stay with me during the Sandbox quarantine (if Phuket opens up to domestic tourism at that time). But... None of the above ‘improves’ things for Thailand, for myself and returnees like myself all the Sandbox has done is ‘divert’ the money from ASQ hotels in Bangkok to hotels in Phuket. That said, local restaurants etc may recognise a very minor benefit but I am under no illusion that ‘Sandboxers’ are making any notable financial contribution to the local economy - the numbers of Sandbox arrivals are just too small. As an experiment the Sandbox scheme has shown that Vaccinated and PCR tested international arrivals do not present a covid risk to Thailand - Thus, from this perspective the scheme is a success, but only if Thailand can avoid the ‘pathetic discussions’ and act intelligently solely on results by opening up completely to vaccinated international arrivals.

"neither of which harmed me”...... I don’t wear a seatbelt or Motorcycle helmet - Never needed them !!! The measles is a decease which can be vaccinated against with complete effectiveness. Yet on 2019 Measles killed 207, 000 people? Why? the outbreaks were driven by gaps in vaccination. The H1N1 2009 caused an estimated 700 million to 1.4 Billion cases, 274,000 hospitalisations and 18,500 deaths (officially although WHO estimates 284,000 deaths world wide) - The odds of death from Flu are very small, however if you are old and in a high risk group you definitely want to avoid it. Thus: MMR - best to get the vaccine (vaccinate your kids etc) Influenza - best to get the seasonal vaccine if you are in a high risk group, otherwise not really any significant need. With all of that said - Implying that ‘I was ok, so there is no need for others to vaccinated' is a very narrow minded anecdotally bias and flawed outlook.

Many people applying for CoE suffer from this ‘user interface error’ and blame the system. The CoE process is relatively painless and quick, but it is clearly tripping up a lot of people who may not identify the various idiosyncrasies of the site such as hitting the ‘Upload’ button after uploading !... I also found that some web browsers are better than others (I found that I Safari would just hang, so I used Chrome instead). Regarding not having a Passport Number on the Vaccination Certificate - I also had that issue and simply ‘edited’ the PDF to add in my Passport number before I submitted the Vaccination Certification. There is always a simple solution - we just have to think outside the box slightly. Friends found out a couple of hurdles when travelling with their Children. The CoE application required the Vaccination details of the Children. Of course, children are not vaccinated. The work around was to just put the parents vaccination details in. The other issue was the requirement for Thai ID #, but young children do not have a Thai ID #, again the work around was to simply but the Mothers Thai ID number in that box. The CoE application stage in many cases is simply about getting past that first hurdle, from there on ‘Humans’ can see that the issues can easily be ’side stepped’...

I’m not so sure that is true. The mere nature of the Sandbox is to ‘experiment’ and allow incoming tourists to the Islands in a controlled manner and to see if the arrivals increase any risks of Covid-19 spread within Thailand. (The term ‘Sandbox' means ’test in a controlled environment’). In terms of recognising that Sandbox arrivals do not present any major risk of increasing Covid-19 numbers in Thailand I would argue that the Sandbox is a success. In terms of ‘increasing’ tourism I do not thing the Sandbox has been a success and tourist arrivals have been limited, certainly not enough to provide the economic stimulus required to keep the wolf from the door for many businesses related to tourism. The next step is of course to permit international arrivals to Thailand ‘beyond’ the Sandbox and rely on a similar system of allowing only vaccinated arrivals with a pre-flight and arrival PCR test without any specific need to remain in a geographic region.

I have done this (sort of). Received 1st AZ shot in Thailand, then travelled to work and received 2 Pfizer shots (1st one a month later, 2nd one a month after that). Personally, I don’t think there is any risk with ‘adding shots’ they are just vaccines. The issue of course is getting someone to agree and sign off on that, try and get a Dr to sign off that its ok to eat a tub of mayonnaise after a Covid-19 vaccination and most will be reluctant - my point there is whenever colouring slightly outside the lines there are very few who would put their name to it, thus others will interpret that as dangerous. IF you really need to get a vaccine certificate of an internationally recognised vaccine the do not tell them you have been previously vaccinated. Options depend on your nationality and availability of vaccine in that country. i.e. if you are British and go to the UK you should be able to easily get a vaccine, although I suspect you may not get a choice and given either Pfizer or AZ - other countries may be different. I’m not sure if there are any options to pay privately for a vaccine and get a choice yet.

“I was passing through the intersection during a green light when Mr. Somkuan’s vehicle crashed into me, running the light.” Translation: "I was running a light which had just changed to red, unfortunately I wasn’t going fast enough for the car behind which was also running the red light”....

Fair enough - it seems that every thread with even the remotest mention of Covid-19 turns into an anti-vax argument.... My apologies for feeding the anti-vax troll.

While the ‘sound bites’... ‘political buzz wording’ clearly lend to the paranoia the normally deliberate, methodical process as you called it is also known as bureaucractic and highly inefficient. The years approval applications sat in offices awaiting sign off were simply removed. Vast sums of money and resources were also thrown into the vaccines, more than any other vaccine in history. Improved from what ? the mRNA vaccines are already effective. Vaccines will need to continued evolving with the antigenic drift of the virus, just like the influenza vaccines. Thus, the ‘vaccine’ will always be new !!! Treatments will also be developed which are more effective at treating those with Covid-19 and mitigating their symptoms.

Sweden: Population: 10.23m / Covid-19 Deaths: 14,668 Norway: Population: 5.33m / Covid-19 Deaths: 811 Finaland: Population: 5.52m / Covid-19 Deaths: 1012 I checked the numbers to contradict that news, but found the above facts to be damning. On the surface of it those countries which locked down, fared better, perhaps Sweden slightly higher population density may be a reason, but its capital is more sparsely populated than the capitals of its neighbours. Sweden: 25 per Km2 / Stockholm: 367 per Km2 Norway: 15 per Km2 / Oslo: 1533 per Km2 Finland: 18 per Km2 / Helsinki 2986 per Km2 The facts remain damning, lockdown seems much more effective than Swedens ‘open’ model.

If you prefer an ASQ hotel room that you can’t leave for 15 nights, thats your choice. However, if you are basing that choice only on the idea that you cannot leave phuket after a 14 Sandbox quarantine, the information you have is incorrect. After 14 days staying at an SHA Plus hotel under the SandBox scheme any visitor is free to travel elsewhere in Thailand. Domestic flights ‘for the most part’ have stopped, but there are still options: Nok Air - to U-Tapao (not sure of frequency) Thai Airways (to Bangkok - 2 twice per week from Sept) People are hiring cars / vans off the island There is a ‘Sandbox Bus’ off the island to Suvarnabumi airport I will be in ’Sandboxing’ in a couple of weeks. I have no concerns about getting off the island after 14 days. But, if I can, I will probably bring my family down to Phuket instead of going back to Bangkok if it is still in Lock down. Thus, one thing to consider is will anything even be open in Bangkok and Patts when you are visiting - Phuket may well be a better option all around.

Actually it is... which is why we have a Flu Vaccine... measles vaccines, MMR, Typhoid, polio etc... all of these diseases which have in the past and can reach epidemic levels if not mitigated against. 1980 - 2.6 million people died of a measles epidemic - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles 2014 - 141,000 people died of Typhoid - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhoid_fever 2000 - 2,17 case of Typhoid with 217,000 deaths. 1918 - H1N1 we all know about that one ! 1957 - H1N2 1.1 million estimated deaths world wide 2009 - H1N1 60.8 million cases

I have also heard that Rawai is one of the busier area’s along with Laguna area as this is were there are most expat residents. But regrind travel off the island, your comments are rubbish. One read of the ‘Sandbox’ facebook groups highlights exactly how people are travelling off the island to other areas of Thailand.