johnnybangkok

Enough of the pearl clutching please. Throughout this whole thread all you've done is insinuate that younger voters are only voting Dem becuase of the student debt relief with statements such as 'As a young person getting 10K for a possible bad decision I know who I'd vote for' and 'You're saying that a paid for Cancun vacation wasn't an incentive for many young people." At no point have you offered any OTHER reason so what are we supposed to think? And you get 'bashed' when you can't support your assertions. If you don't like it may I suggest you find a right-wing echo chamber for your 'insights'.

1. Being out of the failing, undemocratic federalist project that is the EU before it collapses. Do you have a spare crystal ball that I could use? 2. Getting a head start on the vaccine rollout. Possibly although I don't think being part of EU would have changed that. 3. Record low unemployment. UK unemployment rate for 2021 was 4.53% , a 0.05% increase from 2020. UK unemployment rate for 2020 was 4.47%, a 0.73% increase from 2019. UK unemployment rate for 2019 was 3.74%, a 0.26% decline from 2018. UK unemployment rate for 2018 was 4.00%, a 0.33% decline from 2017. So unemployment has risen from 2018 to 2021 so that's wrong. 4. Being able to hold our own politicians to account without them being able to blame Brussels. Always had that. 5. Regaining sovereignty. Always had that. 6. Being able to make our own laws, laws made by our own politicians that were elected by the UK electorate. Always had that. 7. No longer propping up the economies of Poland, Greece, Hungary with vast net contributions set by Brussels. From January 2021, the estimated bill was £25bn left to pay by 2057, according to the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR), almost £18bn of which will be paid in the first five years. https://www.bbc.com/news/51110096. Also, The UK contributes to a fund which could be used to channel emergency funding to Eurozone countries, but an EU law made in 2015 ensures that the UK would be “immediately and fully compensated” for any losses caused by a Eurozone member. https://fullfact.org/europe/will-uk-pay-future-eurozone-bailouts/ I did asks for facts.

Ok, lets start with this:- 'Since all you Brexit fans want to do is let us know 'it's done' and 'get over it', perhaps you will be nice enough to let us also know what the benefits have been so far? Top 5 will do and facts would be great.

Unlike your hero Trump who of course never got anything wrong or indeed was so precise with everything he said https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/12/donald-trump-stupid-moments-dumb-comments.html

Your opinion is infantile and insulting and as usual centred on Fox news's interpretation of what is important (he's old, we get it). Any chance of coming up with something that isn't just a Trump type personal insult?

Since all you Brexit fans want to do is let us know 'it's done' and 'get over it', perhaps you will be nice enough to let us also know what the benefits have been so far? Top 5 will do and facts would be great.

Or it didn't exist in the first place. You have been a fan of Trump for a very long time (I think more to do with the fact you think he was being bullied and you don't like bullies) but time has shown that it was in fact him that was the problem rather than any ficticous 'swamp' he sold you. The bigger picture is there has been no POTUS in living memory who has tried more to undermine democracy than the Orange One and this alone should be the only reason you should choose to not support him.

As has been pointed out to you mumerous times, it's terribly naive to think this was the only reason. Unlike yourself (and almost all GOPers), Gen Z have more than just self-interest and greed at heart. They see a party that is actively undermining democracy; who are trying desperately to limit a womens ability to govern her own body; who have no real solutions other than negative policies. All these things play a part and you constantly attributing it to self-interest and greed say more about you than it does them.

Would the 'professional posters on here' be those guys with the facts or is just those guys with the fancy words?

And rightly so. It's only hubris that will see it otherwise.

Like playing a pigeon at chess............... The point about the whole artcle is why the UK is struggling more than other countries and obviously Brexit has played a part. We all understand it's not the ONLY point, but it certainly hasn't helped. The Tories had an idea about the benefits of Brexit but it was all based on getting free of EU finacial rules and freeing up The City. Guess what? They haven't even taken advantage of that. Lizz Truss was at least honest about what they are all about; less tax for the rich and corporations in an attempt to save The City from the likes of Singapore and Frankfurt. When you have a square mile of London paying almost 33% of ALL UK tax, you begin to understand what Brexit and what the Tories are really all about. But like all things, such complexitiies don't precide in a vaccum; there are a many reasons why the UK is struggling more than most but the common demoniator is the Tories and the fact they have been in power now for 12 years. If the UK was a listed company, every one of them would be sacked.

I think the very obvious point was they voted against

Any chance you can come up with an example that isn't 50 years old?

But we also like economic success. The two are not mutually exclusive.

And that's pretty much the only debate you have. Cricklewood hod carriers upended by Polish immigrants. Were you by any chance in the building industry?

There is an insurance scheme. It's called National Insurance (the clues in the name).

He got his fortune teller licence revoked.

Student debt in the US is a serious problem of which only one party is trying to solve; much like infrastructure, unemployment, climate change and human rights (to include abortion). Perhaps other than the suspicion that everyone has only their own self interest to inform their political opinion (a GOP and MAGA favourite) coupled with a nothing but negative political campaign that harped back to the 1950's, the well-informed, younger thankfully voted with their conscious and their own future at heart. There is light at the end of a very dark tunnel.

You would hope so but still large swaithes of the US (central and Southern, predominately white and rural) are still very much 'never Dems' and will never listen to reason, even when their own party is openly undermining democracy. Still, the results are encouraging and should be celebrated as a win.

But despite the result you still don't attribute it to the GOP being seen as a threat to democracy as that's certainly how many people saw it. Your previous assertions that all people care about is inflation, jobs/economy, gun violence, abortion, immigration and climate might also hold true, so perhaps they also think the Dems are the best party to navigate these subjects and I would agree since the GOP have no solutions to any of these issues other than the usual tired, old, ineffectual nonsense which has been proven time and time again not to work. Throw in a deranged 'Orange Man' and a bunch of MAGA types who literally won't believe what they see with their own eyes and the results really aren't any surprise at all.

Reminds me of this gem

What part of a threat to democracy are you actually denying? Trump and many, many GOPers are openly calling all results that go against them (but not the ones they win) a fraud, a hoax, a grand master plan to keep him out of office. They consistently undermine the idea of a fair and free elections to millions of Americans. That alone constiutes a huge threat to democracy. If the people can't trust the mechanism of democracy, then democracy itself will fall.

It must be great having a crystal ball.

And on such weighty subjects, what exactly is the GOP 'cure'? Inflation - a worldwide issue that NO party in power could ever hope of controlling until the Ukraine/Russia war is resolved. jobs/economy - employment in the US is at it's highest level in a long time, and higher than at any stage during Trumps presidency. https://www.statista.com/statistics/269959/employment-in-the-united-states/ gun violence - and can we just remind ourselves which party has consistently and callously stopped any attempt at gun control? (hint; its not the Dems). And also criminal reform (in the shape of matters such as bail reform and sentancing) are always opposed by the GOP with again, not a single solution coming from them. abortion - in an attempt to appeal to the Christian right, the GOP has systematically and cynically eroded the rights of women when it comes to abortion. Predominately red states are leading the charge in making abortion so difficult as to almost make it impossible to get. Immigration - the scare mongering from GOP candidates is so extreme it relly should be called just straight xenophobia. What exactly did Trump accomplish with his 4 years? An ill thought out 'extended' wall? Seperating families and locking up children? It's the oldest trick in the book and copied by all right wing governments the world over; immigrants are to blame for your lack of job and/or prospects, not the billionaires and corporations that actually could do something to help. climate - name one thing that Trump accomplished in his 4 years that helped in the climate change battle? Nothing? Well that's because he did his level best to deny, deflect and overturn policies that could have helped:- 'During his campaign in 2016, Trump had already announced his skepticism of climate change. After he took office in 2017, his administration made decision after decision that slowed or deprioritized climate action. It rolled back policies that helped mitigate warming, relaxed regulations for climate polluters, approved the Keystone XL pipeline, left the Paris Agreement, and more. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/most-consequential-impact-of-trumps-climate-policies-wasted-time All you GOP fans are the first to point fingers without a single remedy from your side. Trump has not ever produced an election manifesto (go on, go to his website and try and actually find a proper manifesto that isn't just a vague 'we will do it differently'), prefering to fear-monger and 'play it by ear' as the mood and notion takes him. His biggest thing is loyalty to him and to his MAGA fan base and he gives not one jot about the good of the average man and for the USA as a whole. It's all about him. A cult of personality with very little substance. If you think this man and this party are the solution to the problems of the US and indeed the world then when is he actually going to produce something that helps the majority of Americans rather than the stipdly wealthy and corporations. You have been lied to; the emporer really doesn't have any clothes.