johnnybangkok

Well when you consider the NHS alone employs 1.2 million people (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/record-numbers-of-staff-working-in-the-nhs), and supermarkets employ about the same and then add hotels & hospitality, the services industries, charity work and all those others mentioned, it still doesn't represent the vast majority of UK workers. But I get your point.

Not denying any of this but to use the construction industry as a barometer for the whole of the UK is neither accurate nor helpful. It's also not the largest industry either https://www.ibisworld.com/united-kingdom/industry-trends/biggest-industries-by-employment/

As you have readily admitted, you're no fan of football, but if you were (like me) you would see how much of a travesty awarding Qatar the World Cup was in the first place. As Fat (above) pointed out, this selection was mired in controversy from the beginning (with most believing it was all done with bribes) as Qatar should NEVER have been awarded this prestigous event as it had no stadiums (it had to build 7 from scratch), did not have the infrastructure (it had to build whole cities and 100's of hotels) has summer temperaturs in excess of 50 degrees (125 degrees F) and is known for it's abysmal human rights record and jailing and killing of the LGBTQ community. It's estimated that 6,500 foreign workers (mostly from India, Nepal and Bangladesh) died in the construction of the facilities and stories run rife about appalling living conditions, people not allowed to leave the country and people not being paid. It was basically modern slavery on a huge scale. The 'activist' element of all this is not just about LBTQ rights but human rights in general and much of it is aimed at FIFA as much as Qatar and all of it, in my opinion, is entirely justified. By the way, if you want to know more about it, John Oliver did an excellent expose about it all which can be viewed at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMqLDhl8PXw

At least he was being honest. Unlike the vast majority of other posters on here.

What, you're not advocating a full invasion and stripping of all it's assets?

It seems that every Brexit fan on this thread was at some time working in the construction industry as this is the only industry that keeps on getting brought up and was seemingly adversely affected by these nationals. We've had hod carriers in Cricklwood, sparkies at the Olympic Stadium and bad managers for brickies in London. This may surpise you but the UK is made up of more than just the construction industry and a LOT of industries benefited from EU workers who basically would do the jobs Brits turned their noses up at (hotels & hospitality, factories, NHS, fruit pickers, refuse collection etc) I'm sorry that a Polish bricklayer could do as good (if not better) job than some of you for a lot less money but it's not indicative of all jobs and was used as an easy 'they're taking your jobs' when the opposite in fact was true https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/20/reality-check-are-eu-migrants-really-taking-british-jobs' The UK had record unemployment in the lead up to Brexit https://www.statista.com/statistics/279898/unemployment-rate-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/ and these EU immigrants played a vital role in it's success, consistently adding more in the form of NI contributions and tax than they ever took out in benefits and now they are no longer around, the UK is REALLY struggling to fill these roles which in turn is having a huge affect on the economy. These are the facts.

Do you even know that Alabania isn't even part of the EU and therefore Brexit would have no impact on Albanians coming in or out of the UK as they would all be illegal or asylum seekers at best?

Whether it was bendy bananas, vacuum cleaners or immigration, the Brexit Brigade were sold lies after lies to constitute the worst commercial decision ever taken by a sovereign nation. But none of them looked into the validity of these frankly ridiculous statements because facts seldom mattered and cognitive bias was the order of the day. Even on this thread, many have been presented with substantiated facts and solid reasons behind the absurdities they were sold (and keep on repeating) but time and time again they are ignored because all that really mattered was keeping those pesky foreigners away from England's hallowed shores. At least for large parts of this thread we got to see the real reasons why most voted Brexit and it had nothing to do with the economy (with many openly admitting they don't give a damn), or even the supposedly oppressive EU law (which was neither oppressive nor compulsory) and everything to do with 'securing borders'. The whole topic of this thread was 'why is the uk struggling more than other countries' and whilst I will freely admit (and have stated previously) that there are more than one contributory factor to take into account, to deny Brexit has played and continues to play a major part in this 'struggle' is ostrich syndrome of the highest order.

The UK is signed up to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (Article 14), which states that everyone has the right to seek and enjoy asylum from persecution in other countries. It doesn’t discriminate on mode of transport so whether a person arrives by plane, lorry or rubber dinghy , there are laws in place to how they are treated. The fact that you don’t like this is irrelevant. The law is the law and the UK rightfully follows the law. And since you probably thought Brexit was going to improve the immigration issue then as you are clearly seeing every day, you were lied to about that as well. Stopped a few Polish guys from working in Cricklewood though.

No one is denying there is a huge cost to processing asylum seekers but the main problem is there is such a huge backlog that the process is dragging out much longer than usual and costing much more than it ever did. This is NOT the fault of asylum seekers though. This is a government problem, one of its very many. And I’m just going to ignore your “criminal element” comment. It’s puerile and unsubstantiated.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. If you recall Boris and the Tories were actually going to do this and with his “best thing would be to ignore it” statement and “herd immunity” nonsense but he was forced to do a dramatic u-turn when his advisers extrapolated the numbers out and found out a LOT of people were going to die. A LOT. Nothing you are saying is wrong, but they did what they did at the time with the information they had so I’m a bit less harsh on this one.

You guys are really struggling with this. Firstly the “attack” you are referencing is regarding the politics of what is happening. It even says straight after “Take a few minutes to find out why we call the Government’s flagship ‘Nationality and Borders Bill’ the Anti-Refugee Bill. Secondly (and probably more importantly) no one on here is supporting illegal immigrants. I think that has been made crystal clear. We are however supporting a persons right to claim asylum (like most civilized countries do) and the right to stay in the UK whilst that process is happening. If the process is broken ( and again I highlighted this on a previous post as I agree it needs to be fixed) then that’s a government failing and NOT the fault of those claiming asylum. But here’s the rub; if someone is in the UK illegally then it’s not costing you a single penny as since they are illegal and flying under the radar, they’re hardly bowling into the nearest dole office with their hand out and screaming to be housed. So in summary, asylum seekers should be allowed in but deported if they don’t qualify. Illegal immigrants should be deported once they have been found (easier said than done) and other immigrants should be allowed in on a points system which is exactly what happens currently. The UK’s current troubles are NOT because of immigrants, legal or not. That’s just an argument from the ill informed. No, the problems are a mixture of an ill-advised Brexit, a VERY expensive pandemic and 12 years of Tory incompetence. But I don’t see any of you pointing the finger at who actually is to blame because your beloved Boris delivered Brexit and you can’t bring yourself to admit it’s been a farce from the beginning with no noticeable benefits whatsoever. And that includes immigration.

Care to elaborate or is this the height of your debating skills?

You are completely missing the point and I think it’s telling that you don’t know the difference. If someone lands in the UK (or any country) and claims asylum, they are an asylum seeker. If they come in without declaring asylum and don’t get caught (in the back of a lorry for example), they are an illegal immigrant. Two different things. Two different subjects. And the EU are not “hurting”. They owe the UK nothing. The UK decided to leave so it now has to follow whatever processes any other country would have to who also gave up their trade deal with the EU. Maybe start blaming the people who actually did the leaving (who were warned constantly about what was going yo happen) rather than the EU.

You are conflating two different things. Illegal immigrants are NOT asylum seekers (you’re original post). By definition they are illegally entering the country and will be thrown out if caught. Asylum seekers on the other hand have a process to follow that will/won’t allow them to remain. I’m sure there are plenty of mafia Albanians in the UK but they are likely to be illegal immigrants rather than asylum seekers. No one is condoning illegal immigrants. They shouldn’t be there, hence the “illegal” bit. And by the way 40,000 is nothing. With 148,200 applicants registered in 2021, Germany accounted for 27.7% of all first-time asylum applicants in the EU. It was followed by France (103 800, or 19.4%). https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Asylum_statistics&oldid=558844

I really wish people would do at least the minimum of research before they comment on matters they clearly have no understanding of. Firstly the UK is NOT the preferred choice for many asylum seekers. Almost every single other European country gets far more asylum seekers than the uk. Secondly “People seeking asylum are not allowed to claim mainstream welfare benefits in the UK. In most cases, they are also banned from working. They can access support in the form of housing and basic living expenses while in the UK through the Home Office. This is usually known as ‘asylum support’, but you may also hear people refer to ‘section 95 support’, or ‘section 4 support’, which are different types of support available depending on people’s circumstances and the status of their asylum claim. This means that the majority of people seeking asylum in the UK end up living on £5.66 per day to cover almost all their needs, including food, clothing, transport and medicine. This places them more than 70% below the poverty line. Many are forced to make impossible decisions between feeding themselves or buying medicine for their families.” https://www.refugee-action.org.uk/about/facts-about-refugees/ That took me all of 2 minutes to find.

Unfortunately I don't think the US is ready for a woman never mind one of latin ethnicity. Americans penchant for old, white men will continue because as much as Biden isn't everyone's favourite POTUS, he was VERY effective against Trump. It's a shame as I like AOC but her left wing credentials are too easy for the GOP to denigrate and lampoon and their inability to understand the difference between socialism and communism certainly doesn't help.

The Dems should be delighted that Trump has declared; they know they stand a much better chance of beating him than say DeSantis. However, I don't think he'll get the Republican nomination as many Republicans are now openly calling him out on his inability to win and his polarising effect on the electorate. Couple this with his many, many legal troubles and you've got an awful lot of problems with Trump being your Presidential candidate. It should make for some entertaining stuff though over the coming months.

Vetting in the Uk is quite stringent (and has got more stringent after Brexit) and is based on a very similar 'points based' system to Australia. https://www.y-axis.com/migrate/uk/ ELIGIBILITY In 2020, the UK government announced a points-based immigration system. The main features of the points-based migration are: Candidates for immigration to the EU and non-EU countries shall be considered equally. The points-based system must be followed by highly skilled workers, skilled workers, and students who wish to come to the UK. For skilled workers, a job offer is required. The salary level has been cut from 30,000 pounds to 26,000 pounds per year. Applicants must demonstrate their ability to communicate in English (A-level or equivalent). Highly skilled professionals must be endorsed by a UK authority, but they are not required to have a job offer. 70 points is the minimum score required to be eligible for a visa To say 'the majority of those in rubber dinghies are economic, illegal gate crashers with Albanian mafia connections' is somewhat harsh but there is a point to establishing whether people are in fact true asylum seekers or just economic migrants. There is supposed to be a stringent vetting process for asylum seekers v economic migrants but even if someone is refused asylum, a lot of them get to stay in the country https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/22/nine-in-10-people-refused-asylum-in-2020-free-to-remain-in-uk-home-office This is obviously a huge problem that needs addressing. Again though, this is for the Tories to sort out after campaigning so strongly on immigration for Brexit.

So it's the Dems fault that the Republicans put forward the candidates they did? Do you actually read back any of this stuff you write?

More anecdotal nonsense. You cannot keep using your own cr@p experiences in life to blame a whole education system. And in the Uk if you want to be an electricians or plumber there are vocational courses you can take and also plenty of apprentiships around but whether people see these professionas as 'worthwhile' really does depend on their personal ambition.

You continue to demonstrate your lack of understanding on this matter, now with simple arithmatic. The UK's population may well be 67 million but obvioulsy that includes children, OAP's, the sick and the 'can't be bothered working'. The actual number of the WORKING polulation is approx. 75% i.e. 50 million. so 3.5% of this number is approx 1.7 million.

Actually a deeper and more insidious swamp.

I'm sure there is an intense battle for hod carriers going on in Cricklewood right now but you really shouldn't think this exemplifies the whole of the UK. And wasn't it the Irish everyone was complaining about in the 70's and 80's for doing the exact same thing in the building industry? 'Those pesky Paddy's taking all of our hod carrying jobs!' If a Polish national can come over and do exactly the same job (and I hear they actually do much better) than the Brit at a much lower rate, then perhaps you should be blaming the Brit.

Another myopic post that doesn't understand the true economics of the UK. The Office for National Statistics said the unemployment rate fell to 3.5% over the three months to August – the lowest since February 1974. https://www.itv.com/news/2022-10-11/uk-unemployment-falls-to-lowest-rate-since-1974-amid-rise-in-long-term-sickness This shows that more people than ever are actively working in the UK, a number that has been consistently going down well before Brexit and is now higher due to Covid and people leaving the work force. Also in the same piece “However, the number of people neither working nor looking for work continues to rise ......' In other words, people just decided not to return to the work-force but this doesn't mean they are 'rotting on the dole' as you are trying to say. They've just taken themselves out of the labour market. 'The figures come as employers said severe shortages of workers after the Covid pandemic and Brexit were holding back the British economy, with the number of job vacancies close to a record high at more than 1.2m. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/oct/11/uk-unemployment-long-term-sick-jobless-level-pay-inflation There are more people gainfully employed in the UK than ever before, but demand is outstripping supply. This is made a greart deal worse now that the free movement of EU nationals means they aren't coming to the UK and not taking the lower level jobs that Brits turn their nose up at. This is also on the back of the government initiative that says 'After four weeks, job seekers will be required to apply for and accept offers for all types of work - including lower-paid, less-skilled roles than their last job - or face welfare payment cuts'. https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-government-tightens-welfare-rules-unemployed-2022-01-27/. But even this isn't working as there's simply too many jobs vacancies open to be ever filled by Brits, especially lower level, more menial jobs that a lot of Europeans eagerly took.