lostoday

I recommend everyone read the entire linked article.

It's well written, makes good points, and has some absolute gems of hilarity....for example the sample O-Net question and it's "correct" answer.

I agree with you but if anyone wanted serious discussion or comment the article would be moved to the teaching forum where you have uni teachers able to comment on the real state of education in Thailand instead of old drunks posting from betsits in Europe.

The priorities for most Thai students in the classroom are: Talk to my friends, play games on my phone, recharge my phone, eat something out of a plastic bag, watch some video clips on my phone, hug and flirt with my friends, make fun of the teacher, throw paper around the room, scrunch up water bottles so they make a loud noise, then throw them out the window, put my head on the desk and get some sleep, 'go to the toilet' with 3 of my friends. Draw cartoons in my notebook, kick a football around the room, play my guitar[badly], copy stuff from my friends. Shout and laugh just like all the other students in the room.

They didn't do that in my classes. You must be one of those tefal teachers without a degree.

if you speak thai they think your work illegaly.... less you know better it is... like during red khmer regime.

So don't speak Thai at immigration. Not a big problem. Speak Thai at the Thai speaking doctor who is going to operate on you and don't speak Thai at immigration who want to operate on your bank account. This not one that is difficult to figure out.

Speaking Thai during the red Khmer regime was not a problem as Thailand took in many Khmer refugees it was a good idea to speak a little Khmer.

Problems are very deep rooted in Thailand and that is why Western modern democracy can't work. Let's just say its one country but two systems: the ultra rich and everyone else who is kept poor and dumbed down by low levels of education. There is a sort of middle class but they are very much the minority. Until everyone stops being serfs of the rich, nothing will change. I am not saying the Red shirts etal are the answer. Guess we will just have to put up with the way it is?

What does democracy or not have to do with the economy?

Can't someone query the loony tune who coined the word and get a comment. He can't be that difficult to find for all of the digital nomads here?

So women want to be lazy monks as well.....

I think Buddha would be very upset by seeing monks sleeping half the day, watching soccer and ordering meat.....

Buddha not care. He dead.

He must have been driving a tank or pushing around an anti aircraft gun,a 38mm is a very large weapon to be carrying around. I think they must have meant 38 cal., that's what most hand guns are.

37 mm

You can understand why she would be afraid.

Maybe they need to follow the Hitler model of the 30s. I'm actually serious..

Not enough Jewish people to steal property from.

The people get the leader they deserve. We can all bash on the dear leader but if Thais weren't so corrupt and incompetent in leading this country then the current scenario would never be. He's getting frustrated by the lack of change thus step by step creating a dictatorship, it always goes like that.

Don't you mean tank by tank and not step by step? It is not like this is a new experience for Thailand.

I think there is a song already written called, "Tanks for the memories." Bob Hope I think.

It is just a matter of time before someone makes a movie. The dialog already written is too good to pass up. What kind of a reaction will that have? I can only guess but it will be something to behold I'm sure.

What you, I or anybody here wants or would like to see is meaningless.

It is what the Thai people want that matters. It is all down to them on one side or the other, rich or poor, military or civilian, honest persons or thieves.

It is their problem to solve in their own way and there is very little that any of us farangs can do to affect it. In a local context we may be able to convince our families and friends but that will only be a microcosm of what WE think is needed and who is to say if we are right or wrong?

"It is what the Thai people want that matters."

I agree! That's why democracy should be restored and elections held as soon as possible.

I agree with you but whose version of democracy should be used? This governments, the last government, the one before that etc, a western style one, Korea South or North. the USA, EU, UK, Australia etc.

What would the ground rules for that democracy be. Elections on their own are just the first step to "democracy". So until the stage of well we have had the elections and one side won, "now what do we do" can be answered an election is not a lot of use.

IMHO finding enough people who can set up and monitor a fair and trouble free election will be hard enough in Thailand but to get enough people of all sides and colours to agree on the "what next" scenario may be virtually impossible.

My belief is that whoever is running this needs to sort out the "what do we do next" bit before the election and set it in stone so that EVERY political party will know what it can do and most importantly what it CAN'T do.

There will never be a perfect constitution that everyone agrees to. Go back to the 1997 constitution, perhaps modifying it to strengthen guarantees of freedom of speech and press and to put the military firmly under civilian control. The U.S. Constitution explicitly states that the military is under the command of the president and limits the number of officers, a limit that can only be changed with consent from congress. It's a constitution that has survived, with occasional modifications made in keeping with rules for amendments in the original document, for well over 200 years. It seems it has some useful features, but I don't think anyone expects a military junta to do anything that would restrict the military or change its above the law status in Thailand.

Then have an election monitored by ANFREL, or some other credible international election, just as the 2011 election was monitored and the results deemed representative of the voters intent.

Holding out for perfection is just a stalling tactic. Expecting the military to produce a constitution that gives power to the Thai people is delusional.

Good ideas but nothing to do with saving the economy. The easiest way to save the economy is without an election or constitution. Hire someone who understands the problems like the OP and follow his advice by executive fiat. The problem with that as pointed out in the OP is the powers running the country don't want the economy saved at the expense of their profits. Baht goes down and the rich who are the only ones who buy things made outside of Thailand lose money.

Tax the rich give the money to the poor and domestic spending is jump started. That is what the OP suggests.

Even though it could be enacted quicker by the Generals I doubt they can get the real boss to sign off on it.

I just washed mine. The dog likes it. I wet him down with the garden hose and rub in medicated shampoo I bought at Lotus and then spray off and towel dry. I chain him up for an hour do dry off so the dog will not roll in the dirt while wet.

Sounds unpeaceful to me.

I haven't read the OP. Seems I am I agreement....

The NYT article is rubbish and nonsense, Thailand is no different from any other country in that respect. In the UK, the top 1% owns as much as the bottom 55%. Thailand is no different from any other country in that respect. In the UK, the top 1% owns as much as the bottom 55%. http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/may/15/britains-richest-1-percent-own-same-as-bottom-55-population

I hardly think if you disagree with one element of the article that you can say the article is rubbish and nonsense. In any event the Gini coefficient does not agree with you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality

Gini Coefficient

Thailand 53.6

UK 40

Nethelands 30.9

Australia 30.3

The OP says to save the Thai economy the poor should be given lots of money* based on how poor they are and the baht should be devalued 20% from today's level to stimulate exports.

Do you disagree with the above?

"The OP says to save the Thai economy the poor should be given lots of money* based on how poor they are and the baht should be devalued 20% from today's level to stimulate exports.

Do you disagree with the above"?

I agree that could be an element of the solution but the entire package needs to be laid out before I can say if I agree with a single element of it. As for devaluation of THB: it has already devalued by at least 10% so yes, a further devaluation is probable.

As for the Gini coefficient: looking at the Gin numbers and the UK vs Thailand, it looks like the real gap is with the CIA gin numbers, all the others look fairly close to me, naturally you have chosen the worst case scenario to exemplify your point!,

OP - Increase domestic spending and increase exports. What other short term solutions do you propose?

Because if Thailand does not give in to some re alignment of wealth it's going to see many changes that no one wants.

I just told my wife that any unpeace in the home will not be tolerated.

so much BS on this ... ' I don't give her anything ' ... what lie's are spoken on TV ...

So any farang who gives nothing expects to be looked after, taken care of ...fed, waited on, sex sometimes ! but you don't provide no financial support whatsoever ?

Absolute BS ... ain't that the truth ...

My dad never gave my mom anything and I've never spoken to the man and never will.

I haven't read the OP. Seems I am I agreement....

The NYT article is rubbish and nonsense, Thailand is no different from any other country in that respect. In the UK, the top 1% owns as much as the bottom 55%. Thailand is no different from any other country in that respect. In the UK, the top 1% owns as much as the bottom 55%. http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/may/15/britains-richest-1-percent-own-same-as-bottom-55-population

I hardly think if you disagree with one element of the article that you can say the article is rubbish and nonsense. In any event the Gini coefficient does not agree with you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality

Gini Coefficient

Thailand 53.6

The OP says to save the Thai economy the poor should be given lots of money* based on how poor they are and the baht should be devalued 20% from today's level to stimulate exports.

Does anyone disagree with that?

*To stimulate sustainable domestic spending, especially among the poor, the Thai government should increase public expenditures in the provinces to at least one half of the total by 2025, up from nearly 28 percent in 2012. Support should be determined based on the recipients’ income rather than their localities or the crops they cultivate, as has traditionally been the case.

Where will the money come from to do that?

Taxes from the middle class in Bangkok. Or are you asking me where I would get the money?

You will start Sondhi and Suthep brushing off their yellow t shirts if you do that.

This is the problem. The inequality is massive, the distribution around the country of money morally abhorrent, but the middle class have been convinced they are right to moan about anything that puts money into the countryside.

It is the most right wing of attitudes and some have fostered it to a horrible level. Ludicrously it is splitting the difference between people earning 50k per month the versus 10k per month.

Such clever manipulation when the reality is the 50 K per monthers should be asking how did the 5mn per monthers get so lucky?

What you are saying is in the OP, " The generals’ economic policy is hampered by concern for their core constituents, the Bangkok-based establishment: a patronage network among the bureaucracy, the judiciary, the army, business elites and the palace. That network has created staggering inequality: Just 0.1 percent of Thais hold nearly half of the country’s total wealth, according to a 2012 study by the National Economics and Social Development Board, the state economic planning agency."

It is obvious if the Thai people read and understand the NYT article they will call for changes.

It would be in the interest of the core constituents (above) to muffle discussion or dissemination of the OP. Which is why I think there are so many who do not want to discuss the contents of the OP in this thread. Just my opinion of course.

​But you have to ask yourself who would not want the 99% of Thailand to know that 1% has all the cash? I would be betting on the 1% wanting to change the subject.

I haven't read the OP. Seems I am I agreement....

fixed

The OP says to save the Thai economy the poor should be given lots of money* based on how poor they are and the baht should be devalued 20% from today's level to stimulate exports.

Does anyone disagree with that?

*To stimulate sustainable domestic spending, especially among the poor, the Thai government should increase public expenditures in the provinces to at least one half of the total by 2025, up from nearly 28 percent in 2012. Support should be determined based on the recipients’ income rather than their localities or the crops they cultivate, as has traditionally been the case.

Where will the money come from to do that?

Taxes from the middle class in Bangkok. Or are you asking me where I would get the money?

Why only from the middle class and not from everybody by raising taxes, bringing in a land and house tax, inheritance tax etc which is what the government is trying to do.

The problem with most ideas like that is that are a good idea but they need thinking through and the financing side. I expect that the government could borrow the money but that then creates problem in later years when comes the time for repayment.

They could always print the money as the west had done over the years but that is a double edged sword and has its own problems.

They could bring forward some of next years budget but they haven't got the funds for that yet either.

No I wasn't asking you personally.

Because the middle class pays most of the taxes and half of the economy is off the books. A sales tax on everything sold is the only equitable solution to pick up the grey market income.

There are 2 simple questions that have to be answered truthfully:

1) Who polices the police?

2) Who polices the army?

Until the system of law enforcement in Thailand provides a clear answer, there will be no significant change.

It really makes no difference if the guy on top is not corrupt. In Russia the government is corrupt and the army reports to the government in Pakistan the army is corrupt and the government reports to the army.

The OP says to save the Thai economy the poor should be given lots of money* based on how poor they are and the baht should be devalued 20% from today's level to stimulate exports.

Does anyone disagree with that?

*To stimulate sustainable domestic spending, especially among the poor, the Thai government should increase public expenditures in the provinces to at least one half of the total by 2025, up from nearly 28 percent in 2012. Support should be determined based on the recipients’ income rather than their localities or the crops they cultivate, as has traditionally been the case.

Where will the money come from to do that?

Taxes from the middle class in Bangkok. Or are you asking me where I would get the money?

You will start Sondhi and Suthep brushing off their yellow t shirts if you do that.

This is the problem. The inequality is massive, the distribution around the country of money morally abhorrent, but the middle class have been convinced they are right to moan about anything that puts money into the countryside.

It is the most right wing of attitudes and some have fostered it to a horrible level. Ludicrously it is splitting the difference between people earning 50k per month the versus 10k per month.

Such clever manipulation when the reality is the 50 K per monthers should be asking how did the 5mn per monthers get so lucky?

What you are saying is in the OP, " The generals’ economic policy is hampered by concern for their core constituents, the Bangkok-based establishment: a patronage network among the bureaucracy, the judiciary, the army, business elites and the palace. That network has created staggering inequality: Just 0.1 percent of Thais hold nearly half of the country’s total wealth, according to a 2012 study by the National Economics and Social Development Board, the state economic planning agency."

It is obvious if the Thai people read and understand the NYT article they will call for changes.

It would be in the interest of the core constituents (above) to muffle discussion or dissemination of the OP. Which is why I think there are so many who do not want to discuss the contents of the OP in this thread. Just my opinion of course.

​But you have to ask yourself who would not want the 99% of Thailand to know that 1% has all the cash? I would be betting on the 1% wanting to change the subject.

The OP says to save the Thai economy the poor should be given lots of money* based on how poor they are and the baht should be devalued 20% from today's level to stimulate exports.

Does anyone disagree with that?

*To stimulate sustainable domestic spending, especially among the poor, the Thai government should increase public expenditures in the provinces to at least one half of the total by 2025, up from nearly 28 percent in 2012. Support should be determined based on the recipients’ income rather than their localities or the crops they cultivate, as has traditionally been the case.

Where will the money come from to do that?

Taxes from the middle class in Bangkok. Or are you asking me where I would get the money?

We read the OP. We don't need you to tell what us what it means or to restate it. That's the part where thinking comes into play. Just take a vitamin...

The OP says to save the Thai economy the poor should be given lots of money* based on how poor they are and the baht should be devalued 20% from today's level to stimulate exports.

Do you disagree with that?

Thaksins polices did nothing of the sort, and at the time were utterly mind blowing for Thailand. They didn't consider Thai societal norms.

Look where it got him.....

From the OP, "In a time of prosperity (Thaksins times), the Prayuth government might have been able to keep pleasing its main supporters without scuttling the economy. Not these days. Last weekend the junta’s legitimacy took another hit when its proxies voted down its own draft constitution — a move widely seen as a ploy to delay elections that had been planned for early 2016 and extend the generals’ rule.

So what you are saying is that the OP is telling me something I already knew.

Thanks....

Did you know that the answer to Thailand's economic problems were "the Thai government should increase public expenditures in the provinces to at least one half of the total by 2025, up from nearly 28 percent in 2012. Support should be determined based on the recipients’ income rather than their localities or the crops they cultivate, as has traditionally been the case.

The transfers should also be made conditional on the beneficiaries’ compliance with, for example, vaccination requirements and the enrollment of children in school. Promoting socially responsible behavior in exchange for funds would not only serve the public good; it would also go some way toward appeasing the Bangkok elites who resent redistribution policies as a form of state charity.

Devaluing the baht — by, say, 20 percent?"

I knew there was a shocking disparity, didnt know it was quite that horrendous. I am an economist by training. Seeing what goes on in Thailand with some experience isn't that hard.

What I believe is that if they don't get back to democracy and realise that Thailand is the countryside not Bangkok, then the eventually the country will go bang.

It is inevitable. Absolutely inevitable. They have created a monster with this Bangkok centric policy, they have smashed the guy who dared to focus on the countryside, and the electorate is being told how to vote or else.

Times are different. The old authority doesn't work anymore.

Fixed

If some one dumped me in Phuket I'd shoot them also. I'd be OK if they dumped me in Pattaya or Bangkok.