lostoday

pmarlowe, on 09 Sept 2015 - 20:17, said:

pmarlowe, on 09 Sept 2015 - 20:17, said:

Been trying to find reliable numbers of retirees and expats but it seems there is no good source. However, based on googling (God help us) various sources the 200,000 figure might be OK. However, that number would include European, American, Australian New Zealander, Japanese and maybe Indian (not the millions of Burmese, Cambodians, indigenous hill people etc.

The rub is that the number probably includes working expats as well as retirees. But I suspect the baht spent on goods services and taxes by these 200,000 is in fact a significant contribution when you consider the most Thais (those not in the 1 percent) earn from 6000-50000 baht per month (again based on internet sources that can no way be validated). How significant, we'll probably never know. There doesn't appear to be a clear answer but I suspect the cash generated by this group is more than welcome.

Trying to calculate the retiree portion in all this seems impossible as pensions vary as do the level of savings some retirees have been able to accumulate along with any income generating portfolio instruments they may have.

So I think we're welcomed, just as any "found money" would be welcome. But are we encouraged or provided incentives (other than the ones we provide ourselves) I am not so sure.

Ok but as a sane and rational person do you believe the retirees contribution is 7% of the GDP ? And i stress retiree not someone working here or working elsewhere ?

• Like This

To be honest, I can't see anything that gets us to that 7% of total GDP. I am not an economist but it just doesn't hunt based on the estimated number of expats (total 200k as qualified above), and which I gather would be substantially reduced if to include only retirees. I just don't think there is any way to get to that 7% figure based on what i have been reading, especially relating to only the retirees.

If you think about it in terms of per capita GDP in Thailand, which is around 14000 USD per year...any "found money" is welcome. Probably not welcome enough to change policy -- but a gift nevertheless. So I stand by my earlier post...I think the answer to the question by the Thai government is "mmmm. we like the extra cash but we are otherwise ambivalent."

I live in Thailand and know another 1000 retirees who live in Thailand through organizations I belong to. I think they all spend about 1 million baht per year.

Feel free to disagree based on any kind of real experience or take a survey.

Keep in mind that only 50 or 60% of the real GDP is reported because of Thailand's large grey economy. For example where is it reported when a retiree buys his wife a 3 million baht home (happens once a minute on Thai Visa). Where is it reported that the retiree buys the whole family motorcycles and puts all the kids through private school and the daughters through college (happens once a minute on TV)?

I appreciate this post, especially as one who has built the house, bought the two motorbikes, the electric wheelchair for mum, several laptops and iphones, a boob job, the two year dental fix and paid an allowance of 30k baht each month for many years...and that is just the beginning.

But just like most of the posts on this subject, it is all anecdotal. You can't compute my experience or anyones into a percentage of the real or grey GDP. Anecdotes are helpful to understand why posters feel how they feel and that is appreciated and enlightening. But as far as trying to calculate significance, the hard numbers just aren't there.

The way I see it, the general in his fancy silk suits is not standing in the doorway with his arms spread wide, booming out a big "WELCOME." He's more likely sheepishly smiling, shrugging his shoulders and saying "can't hurt."

There is no answer to the OPs original question.

Thailand knows how many retirees are staying in Thailand and a simple survey would determine expenditures or a survey of the accounts at the Bank of Bangkok. One only needs 270 results for an accurate survey of 200,000 people.

Is it important? If one wants to turn around the Thai economy it is of paramount importance. But unpopular.

The hard numbers are there ask anyone who has an education in economics.

Thai Visa could do a poll and calculate the numbers (hire an economist) and announce to the world that the contribution of retirees to the Thai economy is 7% and change the whole future of retirees and Thailand but they won't. And do you know why? ( I mean all of you guys could prove me wrong - maybe and wouldn't that be fun) - Do you know why they won't? Do you know why they don't want Thailand and the members of Thai Visa to know that they contribute as much as rice production to Thailand?

Certainly will not raise this month. Come back in a few weeks and admit you were wrong.

No problem admitting when wrong, but since you're the one making the positive claim...TV members following this thread will expect full admittance of your error if you prove to be incorrect. Looking forward to it...

You wrote, "Almost certainly will raise this month. 25 basis points, from nearly zero for years now, won't even be noticed and is long overdue." I only replied to your uneducated guess. Really like taking candy from a baby. Not much of a challenge. I'd me more than happy to come back and say I was wrong in the event that proves to be true.

WOW...really?

FYI...I know what I wrote...I WROTE IT! Silly of me to assume such undeserved credit, so I'll spell it out. When someone says or writes "almost certainly"...there has been no positive claim made, only an opinion given. Intentionally leaving some room for error. The word almost is the qualifier which sees to that. When someone (YOU) states, "certainly will not"...a definite positive claim of knowledge has been declared authoritatively. NO wiggle room...NO room for error. You have pronounced a claim with absolute certainty. I have only shared my opinion. Got it now?

You think they will raise the rate I think they will not. Simple isn't it? Got it now?

I wonder how much of the lack of an efficient system for retirees has to do with xenophobia, and how much has to do with unbelievably talentless government and an extraordinary lack of creative juice on the part of these administrators. Thailand has suffered from a lack of a meritocracy for decades. Not so in Malaysia, where they have genuine talent, a far, far better educational system, and elected officials with real intellect, aptitude, creativity, imagination, foresight, forethought, vision, and excellence. None of that exists here. The lack of talent is nothing short of astonishing.

So, it might answer some of your questions. I agree that we are not really valued here, and not given credit for our contributions to the culture, nor the economy. But, I am not sure how deliberate the ridiculously cumbersome visa process is, or if it a result of sheer and utter ineptitude, and a staggering lack of vision.

I don't think they know. As easy as it would be to figure (a couple of phone calls to a few banks) I don't think they know.

Did you read the wholesale attack on me for suggesting the number was large here? No one here wants to even know what the number is because they don't like old people and the thought that they might have value to a country is upsetting to many.

Any economist could put a number on it. It is not rocket science. The effect of new foreign currency coming into a country is not a strange phenomenon and one of the easiest ways to increase the value of an economy.

OB

How do you figure? Retiree me; I contribute 1 million baht per year. Japanese man how much in money from outside Thailand spent in Thailand? Doesn't he get paid for work performed in Thailand with native Thai dollars and Thai raw materials?

Well, by being here I'd say first up his company has probably invested here. I'd wager they earn more than most retirees as well as create more jobs. They all certainly have drivers. They would also probably be paying the highest rate of tax which is 35%. Don't get me wrong I do think retirees add to the economy. But I'm pretty sure the Thai government values its Japanese friends more. With good reason.

OB

The money paid the Japanese employees is made in Thailand from Thai raw materiel. They are using money that is already in circulation and re circulating it not adding new wealth (except the initial investment). In 2014, Japanese direct investment in Thailand fell 37%.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/japan-reaffirms-economic-ties-with-thailand-1423488868

Thailand want's retirees to live here because of the substantial contribution they make to the local economy. They do this in a number of ways, buying property, educating children, starting family businesses, buying farms and orchards and all kinds of money making enterprises with money brought in from outside Thailand or foreign investment. In the same way and for the same reasons Thailand strives for foreign investment it strives for retirees because they are a means of introducing hard currencies into the Thai economy. This process is facilitated by requiring a minimum being kept on account in a Thai bank.

I think we can assume that most of the retired persons living here open Thai bank accounts because of the traffic on Thai Visa about opening a Thai bank account and the volume of questions about the processes of obtaining a retirement extension.

The major difference between the retired guy and working guy is 100% of the retired guys income that he spends in Thailand comes from outside of Thailand whereas the employed person's money comes from inside Thailand. All of the advantages of foreign currency deposits are applied to the retired persons expenditures.

The income that retired persons spend is not accounted for under any of the categories reported by the TAT of Thailand.

How much money do Thai people over 50 spend? How much money do Americans retired in Thailand spend? I have suggested a way to find out but I guess no one really wants to know.

I think everyone understands that those over 50 living here and not working contribute new money.

The problem you have is that you have no idea how many people qualify for you calculation and can only guess at their average spending, and do you know Thailand's GDP?

An earlier poster used the figure of 200,000 as provided by the Thai government and I suggested doing a survey to determine how much they spent. For a population of 200,000 one would only need 270 for an accurate survey.

5,778.98 USD (2013) [/size]Thailand[/size]/GDP per capita[/size]

No. 7 Biggest Shadow Economy: Thailand

Percent of GDP in Shadow Economy: 57.2

Official GDP: $538.6 billion

http://www.bloomberg.com/ss/10/07/0729_worlds_biggest_shadow_economy/8.htm

I think that the 200k figure was all expats and not just retirees. But lets go with that number.

If I understand you correctly you were claiming that 200,000 retirees contribute 7% of GDP. If GDP is $538 billion (no idea if thats right) then 7% would equal $37,660,000,000 which divided by 200,000 would equal $188,300 per expat/retiree. At an approximate exchange rate that equals 6.7 million Baht per person.

That number seems a bit off to me.

Moderator said I was not supposed to tell people about the multiplier effect on new money. But if you want to look it up google multiplier effect on money and that will explain the calculation.

I am sad to say that money will secure your well being but probably not much else.

That's an improvement from where I came from.

Thailand want's retirees to live here because of the substantial contribution they make to the local economy. They do this in a number of ways, buying property, educating children, starting family businesses, buying farms and orchards and all kinds of money making enterprises with money brought in from outside Thailand or foreign investment. In the same way and for the same reasons Thailand strives for foreign investment it strives for retirees because they are a means of introducing hard currencies into the Thai economy. This process is facilitated by requiring a minimum being kept on account in a Thai bank.

I think we can assume that most of the retired persons living here open Thai bank accounts because of the traffic on Thai Visa about opening a Thai bank account and the volume of questions about the processes of obtaining a retirement extension.

The major difference between the retired guy and working guy is 100% of the retired guys income that he spends in Thailand comes from outside of Thailand whereas the employed person's money comes from inside Thailand. All of the advantages of foreign currency deposits are applied to the retired persons expenditures.

The income that retired persons spend is not accounted for under any of the categories reported by the TAT of Thailand.

How much money do Thai people over 50 spend? How much money do Americans retired in Thailand spend? I have suggested a way to find out but I guess no one really wants to know.

I think everyone understands that those over 50 living here and not working contribute new money.

The problem you have is that you have no idea how many people qualify for you calculation and can only guess at their average spending, and do you know Thailand's GDP?

An earlier poster used the figure of 200,000 as provided by the Thai government and I suggested doing a survey to determine how much they spent. For a population of 200,000 one would only need 270 for an accurate survey.

200k expats though yeah? The vast bulk of whom would be Japanese working here and paying taxes. So they probably do contribute a bit. More than retirees for sure.

OB

How do you figure? Retiree me; I contribute 1 million baht per year. Japanese man how much in money from outside Thailand spent in Thailand? Doesn't he get paid for work performed in Thailand with native Thai dollars and Thai raw materials?

Thailand want's retirees to live here because of the substantial contribution they make to the local economy. They do this in a number of ways, buying property, educating children, starting family businesses, buying farms and orchards and all kinds of money making enterprises with money brought in from outside Thailand or foreign investment. In the same way and for the same reasons Thailand strives for foreign investment it strives for retirees because they are a means of introducing hard currencies into the Thai economy. This process is facilitated by requiring a minimum being kept on account in a Thai bank.

I think we can assume that most of the retired persons living here open Thai bank accounts because of the traffic on Thai Visa about opening a Thai bank account and the volume of questions about the processes of obtaining a retirement extension.

The major difference between the retired guy and working guy is 100% of the retired guys income that he spends in Thailand comes from outside of Thailand whereas the employed person's money comes from inside Thailand. All of the advantages of foreign currency deposits are applied to the retired persons expenditures.

The income that retired persons spend is not accounted for under any of the categories reported by the TAT of Thailand.

How much money do Thai people over 50 spend? How much money do Americans retired in Thailand spend? I have suggested a way to find out but I guess no one really wants to know.

I think everyone understands that those over 50 living here and not working contribute new money.

The problem you have is that you have no idea how many people qualify for you calculation and can only guess at their average spending, and do you know Thailand's GDP?

An earlier poster used the figure of 200,000 as provided by the Thai government and I suggested doing a survey to determine how much they spent. For a population of 200,000 one would only need 270 for an accurate survey.

5,778.98 USD (2013) Thailand/GDP per capita

No. 7 Biggest Shadow Economy: Thailand

Percent of GDP in Shadow Economy: 57.2

Official GDP: $538.6 billion

http://www.bloomberg.com/ss/10/07/0729_worlds_biggest_shadow_economy/8.htm

Thailand want's retirees to live here because of the substantial contribution they make to the local economy. They do this in a number of ways, buying property, educating children, starting family businesses, buying farms and orchards and all kinds of money making enterprises with money brought in from outside Thailand or foreign investment. In the same way and for the same reasons Thailand strives for foreign investment it strives for retirees because they are a means of introducing hard currencies into the Thai economy. This process is facilitated by requiring a minimum being kept on account in a Thai bank.

I think we can assume that most of the retired persons living here open Thai bank accounts because of the traffic on Thai Visa about opening a Thai bank account and the volume of questions about the processes of obtaining a retirement extension.

The major difference between the retired guy and working guy is 100% of the retired guys income that he spends in Thailand comes from outside of Thailand whereas the employed person's money comes from inside Thailand. All of the advantages of foreign currency deposits are applied to the retired persons expenditures.

LOL doesnt give up, foreigners who are not retired are married or are working here/ own business' do exactly the same and typically more so what your listing are hardly unique to retiree's

Not true. They use Thai resources to make a product to sell maybe export maybe domestic. Retirees 100% import hard currency funds.

I have a friend who is a gas inspector. He gets paid Thai dollars for replacing a Thai employee who has not been trained to his level. The Thai money he gets he exports to his home accounts because his expense money covers his daily expenses. He is a parasite on the Thai economy where as the retiree only contributes and takes nothing away.

Fact you don't know what the multiplier effect is of new money. Fact you are uneducated about the multiplier effect of new money which is a basic term of economics.

The multiplier effect is an economic term referring to how an increase in one economic activity can cause an increase throughout many other related economic activities.

http://www.investopedia.com/video/play/multiplier-effect/

Don't get hacked off at me. I know what it is you don't. So read and/or watch and learn.

You've got just enough knowledge to be dangerous.

That doesn't apply to money parked in a Thai account to satisfy criteria for a retirement visa/extension since it rarely makes its way into the economy.

How many Western men over 50 are retired in Thailand? We have to agree on that first.

Not counting those who have retirement visas cos they are ovet 50 but are working in other countries of course

As Thailand counts people they would also be retired. How are they treated any different? All retired persons work in another country in one way or another; work being getting a paycheck for services rendered in the past or present. A retired person is a person on a retirement visa/extension.

Thailand want's retirees to live here because of the substantial contribution they make to the local economy. They do this in a number of ways, buying property, educating children, starting family businesses, buying farms and orchards and all kinds of money making enterprises with money brought in from outside Thailand or foreign investment. In the same way and for the same reasons Thailand strives for foreign investment it strives for retirees because they are a means of introducing hard currencies into the Thai economy. This process is facilitated by requiring a minimum being kept on account in a Thai bank.

I think we can assume that most of the retired persons living here open Thai bank accounts because of the traffic on Thai Visa about opening a Thai bank account and the volume of questions about the processes of obtaining a retirement extension.

The major difference between the retired guy and working guy is 100% of the retired guys income that he spends in Thailand comes from outside of Thailand whereas the employed person's money comes from inside Thailand. All of the advantages of foreign currency deposits are applied to the retired persons expenditures.

The income that retired persons spend is not accounted for under any of the categories reported by the TAT of Thailand.

How much money do Thai people over 50 spend? How much money do Americans retired in Thailand spend? I have suggested a way to find out but I guess no one really wants to know.

pmarlowe, on 09 Sept 2015 - 20:17, said:

Been trying to find reliable numbers of retirees and expats but it seems there is no good source. However, based on googling (God help us) various sources the 200,000 figure might be OK. However, that number would include European, American, Australian New Zealander, Japanese and maybe Indian (not the millions of Burmese, Cambodians, indigenous hill people etc.

The rub is that the number probably includes working expats as well as retirees. But I suspect the baht spent on goods services and taxes by these 200,000 is in fact a significant contribution when you consider the most Thais (those not in the 1 percent) earn from 6000-50000 baht per month (again based on internet sources that can no way be validated). How significant, we'll probably never know. There doesn't appear to be a clear answer but I suspect the cash generated by this group is more than welcome.

Trying to calculate the retiree portion in all this seems impossible as pensions vary as do the level of savings some retirees have been able to accumulate along with any income generating portfolio instruments they may have.

So I think we're welcomed, just as any "found money" would be welcome. But are we encouraged or provided incentives (other than the ones we provide ourselves) I am not so sure.

Ok but as a sane and rational person do you believe the retirees contribution is 7% of the GDP ? And i stress retiree not someone working here or working elsewhere ?

• Like This

To be honest, I can't see anything that gets us to that 7% of total GDP. I am not an economist but it just doesn't hunt based on the estimated number of expats (total 200k as qualified above), and which I gather would be substantially reduced if to include only retirees. I just don't think there is any way to get to that 7% figure based on what i have been reading, especially relating to only the retirees.

If you think about it in terms of per capita GDP in Thailand, which is around 14000 USD per year...any "found money" is welcome. Probably not welcome enough to change policy -- but a gift nevertheless. So I stand by my earlier post...I think the answer to the question by the Thai government is "mmmm. we like the extra cash but we are otherwise ambivalent."

I live in Thailand and know another 1000 retirees who live in Thailand through organizations I belong to. I think they all spend about 1 million baht per year.

Feel free to disagree based on any kind of real experience or take a survey.

Keep in mind that only 50 or 60% of the real GDP is reported because of Thailand's large grey economy. For example where is it reported when a retiree buys his wife a 3 million baht home (happens once a minute on Thai Visa). Where is it reported that the retiree buys the whole family motorcycles and puts all the kids through private school and the daughters through college (happens once a minute on TV)?

Fact you don't know what the multiplier effect is of new money. Fact you are uneducated about the multiplier effect of new money which is a basic term of economics.

The multiplier effect is an economic term referring to how an increase in one economic activity can cause an increase throughout many other related economic activities.

http://www.investopedia.com/video/play/multiplier-effect/

Don't get hacked off at me. I know what it is you don't. So read and/or watch and learn.

You've got just enough knowledge to be dangerous.

That doesn't apply to money parked in a Thai account to satisfy criteria for a retirement visa/extension since it rarely makes its way into the economy.

How many Western men over 50 are retired in Thailand? We have to agree on that first.

Thailand GDP - composition by sector:

agriculture: 12.1%

industry: 43.6%

services: 44.2% (2013 est.)

Definition: This entry gives the percentage contribution of agriculture, industry, and services to total GDP. The distribution will total less than 100 percent if the data are incomplete.

Source: CIA World Factbook - This page was last updated on June 30, 2015

Missing 50% of the revenue. Do you know where? Or do you want me to tell you? PS. It would help if you put a number on the GDP Plus you are attacking me backwards by saying my numbers are wrong because yours are correct while not mentioning my numbers. What is the contribution of retirees living in Thailand listed under? Agriculture, Services or Industry?

You should change your username to "lostouch" - that's how severe these delusions of grandeur appear to any rational human.

I don't need to do the math - the daft $45 billion number you pulled out of your bottom in an earlier post told me all I need to know about what looks like your very tenuous grip on reality

Like I said all bluster and no facts. I did the survey and the contribution of old guys to the Thai economy is close to 7% of GDP. You can call me names all you like. Kind of kindergarten though.

I can imagine an eight grade cypress hill telling the math teacher, "I don't need to do the math."

Call me a liar all you like but you offer nothing more than your highly suspect prejudiced opinion.

7% of the GDP

lost touch couldnt be a truer user name LOL

Bluster bluster bluster. It is easy to calculate. But you present no data only your own uneducated opinion. Why should anyone believe you? Do a survey instead of the institutionalization of name calling as a legitimate Thai Visa debate response.

Do you realize it only works in kindergarten or Thai Visa?

Jury still out there. USA economy improving but not great. The employment gains really not up to expectation. There really no inflation at the moment and a strong dollar is bad for the exporters at time when other competing countries have a weak currency and global demand is still very soft. Doubt September and possibly kick the can to next year.

Almost certainly will raise this month. 25 basis points, from nearly zero for years now, won't even be noticed and is long overdue. Even if they raised it 50 basis points, which they won't...it would still be historically very low. A hike will bring some stability back to the markets and also prepare for further rate hikes next year. Then watch the baht crumble!

Certainly will not raise this month. Come back in a few weeks and admit you were wrong.

No problem admitting when wrong, but since you're the one making the positive claim...TV members following this thread will expect full admittance of your error if you prove to be incorrect. Looking forward to it...

You wrote, "Almost certainly will raise this month. 25 basis points, from nearly zero for years now, won't even be noticed and is long overdue." I only replied to your uneducated guess. Really like taking candy from a baby. Not much of a challenge. I'd me more than happy to come back and say I was wrong in the event that proves to be true.

Calling me a troll over and over again doesn't make it so, y'know?

Anyway, look - anyone reading what you've written will quickly surmise that you're not someone worth engaging in intelligent discourse with because you don't really know what you're talking about.

But at least you'll give people a chuckle with your 7% GDP!

Feel free to present any different data. Or anyone else. I just told you how to calculate an accurate result.

1,8 million baht a day or about 700 million baht a year and they don't know who got the money?

You should change your username to "lostouch" - that's how severe these delusions of grandeur appear to any rational human.

I don't need to do the math - the daft $45 billion number you pulled out of your bottom in an earlier post told me all I need to know about what looks like your very tenuous grip on reality

Like I said all bluster and no facts. I did the survey and the contribution of old guys to the Thai economy is close to 7% of GDP. You can call me names all you like. Kind of kindergarten though.

I can imagine an eight grade cypress hill telling the math teacher, "I don't need to do the math."

Call me a liar all you like but you offer nothing more than your highly suspect prejudiced opinion.

You'll have to point out the name I called you because I can't see it anywhere in my post but let's move on . . .

You should frame your last post because you'll be wanting to know why everyone takes you even less seriously than they do already

You're basically saying that old farang retirees'/guys' contribution to the Thai economy is close to 7% of Thailand's gross domestic product . . . slightly less than the ENTIRE tourism sector

MEDIC !!!

MEDIC !!!

Name calling, "you should change your username to "lostouch"

This time around instead of actually contributing anything to the content of the thread you called me crazy by writing, "MEDIC !!! MEDIC !!!"

Just another troll incapable of presenting any data to participate in a debate and only capable of name calling kindergarten antics.

Next you will attempt to continually insult me in hopes of getting the thread closed on account of bickering because you can't counter with opposing data.

I would really hope that your posts with the name calling as the main content will be removed and not let your troll behavior dominate the thread.

and what if they came to uni not for "the sense of belonging"? what if they don't want to "belong" to any self-proclaimed social group, but just study, to get a good job in the future?

all these "fraternities" is bullshit and nothing else.

I never wanted to feel myself "belonged" to one, because I felt confident in communication with people without regard of what "fraternity" they belonged to.

The urge to divide the world into friends and foes is completely instinctive. it's a feature of undeveloped, unconscious mind.

If you do not have that sense of belonging; that is your choice. However, many have benefited well from belonging--these social organizations are great networks for that all-important future job market. As I said, before my post was so severely truncated; moderation in these rituals is the key, and staying moderate takes brains; something many of these posers simply do not possess

Who goes to uni to participate in this crap nobody. Only in Thailand do uni students act like 10 year old kids but nowhere else in the world do students wear uniforms or have written anywhere in the syllabus that hazing would be a course requirement to pass or graduate. Uni is voluntary even in Thailand. So why would anyone care if a student participated in a hazing ritual or not. You simply don't show up for orientation that's it. Haha what q laughable claim that fraternities help you in the job market. I'm sure a potential employer would be very impressed by seeing pictures of you passed out on a park bench or trying to look up ladies skirts and having those pictures posted to Facebook.

Fraternities make up a large part of American college life at the better universities. Some of them are like Animal house. Except men actually in Fraternities never call them, "frats" that word is for the Hollywood wannabes who never made it.

Do Americans really want such a high dollar? Surely the American economy depends on some exports to the rest of the world? Or can the Americans just keep sucking in cheaper and cheaper imports (presumably displacing American products) without a hitch? How high does America want its dollar to go? Double what it is now?

What does the price of the dollar have to do with what Americans want? It's not like they elect the Chairman of the Fed.

So you and a couple of old wheezers you know spend a million baht a year (only £20,000; $30,000) and that means ALL retirees are spending the same or more?

If that's the case, why are all those visa "agents" inundated with requests from pensioners needing help meeting the 800K requirement.

I don't know of any agents who get requests and I think it is a myth. But quit your complaining. If you want to know do the math. I did and I told you the results.

For your information I have a very active social life and belong to many organizations in Thailand and know thousands of retirees in my capacity of an adviser to certain segments of our retired population.

PM JT and ask him to do a survey if you want to know or do one yourself. Why do you care anyway? Why not just take my word for it? What difference does it make to you?

You should change your username to "lostouch" - that's how severe these delusions of grandeur appear to any rational human.

I don't need to do the math - the daft $45 billion number you pulled out of your bottom in an earlier post told me all I need to know about what looks like your very tenuous grip on reality

Like I said all bluster and no facts. I did the survey and the contribution of old guys to the Thai economy is close to 7% of GDP. You can call me names all you like. Kind of kindergarten though.

I can imagine an eight grade cypress hill telling the math teacher, "I don't need to do the math."

Call me a liar all you like but you offer nothing more than your highly suspect prejudiced opinion.

I remember there was a "crackdown" on this issue years ago when immigration police visited every guesthouse and hotel in the Khao San Rd area to ask for a daily list of guest names and passports numbers...

I don't know if they still come around daily, but they were doing it back then

Maybe they forgot to enforce it for a few years and just starting again now? Such is the way with crackdowns in thailand....

Did you know anyone who paid a fine?

No, but I'm sure if 10k is the official fine, it could be haggled down like every other fine

In ten years of living all over Thailand I have never met or heard of anyone being fined even one baht for not filing a TM 30 form. Only on Thai Visa does the topic get any mileage. I think the official fine is closer to 200 baht though or it was the last time I heard an official talking about it.

So you and a couple of old wheezers you know spend a million baht a year (only £20,000; $30,000) and that means ALL retirees are spending the same or more?

If that's the case, why are all those visa "agents" inundated with requests from pensioners needing help meeting the 800K requirement.

I don't know of any agents who get requests and I think it is a myth. But quit your complaining. If you want to know do the math. I did and I told you the results.

For your information I have a very active social life and belong to many organizations in Thailand and know thousands of retirees in my capacity of an adviser to certain segments of our retired population.

PM JT and ask him to do a survey if you want to know or do one yourself. Why do you care anyway? Why not just take my word for it? What difference does it make to you?

Well actually the myth you refer to i have seen " advertised" by agents and further seen questions about said agents on TV, so it seems there appears to be some truth to the myth, further one would question the realibilty of any survey on TV of this kind as one would suspect many would lie anyway skewing any data anyway

Why would an old guy lie in an anonymous internet survey? Maybe you are judging people by yourself but it's my experience as men age they don't give a darn what people think of them.

The confidence level of 90% and the plus or minus 5% accuracy takes into consideration the factors of reliability among others.

I would suggest that because the real data is available our younger Thai Visa members are hesitant to accept the reality of the nice place Thailand is for older gentlemen and the substantial contribution the older set makes to Thailand.

I would interpret a hesitation to attempt such a survey more fear than anything else and actually having to admit what a large economic influence the grey haired charmers are.