lostoday

First, hold democratic elections with all and any party allowed to participate and stop running the country as a quasi communist autocratic state.

Your 'expertise' are in the Military arena, not public or political office. Which is abundantly clear for everyone to see.

And keep your mouth SHUT.

Two questions for you.

What is your version of a democratic election and is that all there is to democracy?

What is YOUR area of expertise?

As for the last line. How arrogant of you living in someone else's country where you have no voice and telling the people running it to keep their mouth shut.

My version of a democratic election is something that we had which we don't have now. Indisputable.

Well unless you are Thai it doesn't matter and IMHO Thais have never really had a proper democracy at all. But of course that is only my opinion.

Off topic nothing to do with the OP.

But but but... they said everything was bright and shiny!

All that glitters is not always gold.

Off topic nothing to do with the OP

First, hold democratic elections with all and any party allowed to participate and stop running the country as a quasi communist autocratic state.

Your 'expertise' are in the Military arena, not public or political office. Which is abundantly clear for everyone to see.

And keep your mouth SHUT.

Two questions for you.

What is your version of a democratic election and is that all there is to democracy?

What is YOUR area of expertise?

As for the last line. How arrogant of you living in someone else's country where you have no voice and telling the people running it to keep their mouth shut.

One question for you Build.

Where did the current rulers of Thailand get their legitimacy from?

Just to give you some help, it is against the criminal code in Thailand to overthrow an elected Thai government.

That leads me to the conclusion that you and Suthep installed these current rulers illegally and against the wish of the Thai people.

Many of us posters have a life long interest in democracy and freedom of speech, concepts totally foreign to you Mr Build.

Under your puppet regime the country of Thailand is going backwards very fast and that is a situation which makes many of us very sad. However I do not agree with Peter Jackson, I believe the current ruler should resign, hand Thailand over to the Thai people, which should include the rural portion of the population, and retire back to his barracks. In the meantime the personal affairs of Prayuth should be closely examined, bank accounts, all that kind of information. You Sir ,need to examine your own arrogance in coming to a country and giving support to a wicked regime against the wishes of the local populations.

Wow I had no idea that I was so powerful and helped Suthep and the general take over the country. Do you think I will get a medal?

Now glenmohr I will ask you the same question that I asked peterjackson (who still has not replied).

Where did I say that this government was legitimate apart from saying that they have been accepted by the highest person in the land? If he accepted them then that makes them legitimate, unless you think you and your words are more impotant to the Thai people than his are.

Is it against the criminal code of Thailand for a convicted criminal fugitive to make his sister the PM of Thailand and then run the country by Skype and phone calls. Do you think it is legitimate for ministers of state, the PM herself (family visits aside), MPs of the ruling party at the time, High ranking police officers and some senior army officers as well to visit the fugitive in many palces in the world?

There are very few posters on TVF who can have ANY effect on democracy or free speech in Thailand as we(and I include myself) have NO say in the way that Thailand is run.

You have no idea of who I am and what I believe in at all.

What you have said (in your own words)

quote" I believe the current ruler should resign, hand Thailand over to the Thai people, which should include the rural portion of the population, and retire back to his barracks."

So you belive that you have a right to an opinion but that I do not have that same right.

Have you personally done a survey of even 0.001% of the Thai people across the whole country and asked them how they feel about the current status?

I agree that the General should open up his bank accounts to scrutiny in the same way that ALL Thai politicians over the last 30 or 40 years should do so, That however may be embarrasing for many of them.

Do you realise that the fugitives fortune increased by 450% whilst his sister was the nominal PM?

What is your concept of democracy. The sort of democracy where all people can speak freely, yet you accuse me of arrogance for expressing my opinion.

You really have no idea about me at all.

quote "You Sir ,need to examine your own arrogance in coming to a country and giving support to a wicked regime against the wishes of the local populations."

What or who gives you the right to speak for all the wishes of the local populations"?

Off topic nothing to do with the OP.

First, hold democratic elections with all and any party allowed to participate and stop running the country as a quasi communist autocratic state.

Your 'expertise' are in the Military arena, not public or political office. Which is abundantly clear for everyone to see.

And keep your mouth SHUT.

Two questions for you.

What is your version of a democratic election and is that all there is to democracy?

What is YOUR area of expertise?

As for the last line. How arrogant of you living in someone else's country where you have no voice and telling the people running it to keep their mouth shut.

Indeed, it's almost as bad as farangs telling the Thais what kind of democracy they should have, or that the version they vote in is wrong... Heaven forbid such outlandish thoughts.

It's not about what WE think, it's about the Thais, it always has been, always will be!!

Off topic nothing to do with the OP.

OP "Devaluing the baht — by, say, 20 percent — also is necessary, to stimulate exports of goods such as rice, rubber, electronics and cars. The standard risks of devaluation would be minimal: Thailand has a tiny stock of foreign-denominated debt, and prices for consumer goods are falling. Yet the Bank of Thailand, the central bank, has been reluctant to significantly weaken the baht. The power elites, facing a sluggish economy at home, have been investing overseas, incurring liabilities in foreign currency; they want to buy their dollars for cheap."

But The OP again, "The Bangkok-based establishment also fears the political implications of a devaluation. When the baht collapsed in 1997, many fortunes were wiped out. Then the whole economy collapsed, discrediting the traditional elites’ stewardship. That in turn led to the adoption of a liberal constitution that restrained their political power and paved the way for the rise of Mr. Thaksin, whose progressive policies weakened their grip even more."

Letting the baht float and find its value is completely different to 97.

It's at 36. It was at 30. There is 20%

I think they mean 20% from the date of the article which would mean 43

If they haven't learnt their lesson from 97 and try to defend it, then they are really really dumb.

OP "The Bangkok-based establishment also fears the political implications of a devaluation. When the baht collapsed in 1997, many fortunes were wiped out. Then the whole economy collapsed, discrediting the traditional elites’ stewardship. That in turn led to the adoption of a liberal constitution that restrained their political power and paved the way for the rise of Mr. Thaksin, whose progressive policies weakened their grip even more."

They won't pour their forex into defending the baht. No way.. Just let the market see where it goes. Any other policy is idiotically risky.

What other options do they have to devalue the currency?

Don't get your question? Just let it go where the market takes it. If they get into a contest to defend the baht they will lose

It may go to 40, so be it. They won't be able to defend it against rising interest rates in the USD. It will be 97 all over again.

How could they drop the value to 40 right now?

OP "Devaluing the baht — by, say, 20 percent — also is necessary, to stimulate exports of goods such as rice, rubber, electronics and cars. The standard risks of devaluation would be minimal: Thailand has a tiny stock of foreign-denominated debt, and prices for consumer goods are falling. Yet the Bank of Thailand, the central bank, has been reluctant to significantly weaken the baht. The power elites, facing a sluggish economy at home, have been investing overseas, incurring liabilities in foreign currency; they want to buy their dollars for cheap."

But The OP again, "The Bangkok-based establishment also fears the political implications of a devaluation. When the baht collapsed in 1997, many fortunes were wiped out. Then the whole economy collapsed, discrediting the traditional elites’ stewardship. That in turn led to the adoption of a liberal constitution that restrained their political power and paved the way for the rise of Mr. Thaksin, whose progressive policies weakened their grip even more."

Letting the baht float and find its value is completely different to 97.

It's at 36. It was at 30. There is 20%

I think they mean 20% from the date of the article which would mean 43

If they haven't learnt their lesson from 97 and try to defend it, then they are really really dumb.

OP "The Bangkok-based establishment also fears the political implications of a devaluation. When the baht collapsed in 1997, many fortunes were wiped out. Then the whole economy collapsed, discrediting the traditional elites’ stewardship. That in turn led to the adoption of a liberal constitution that restrained their political power and paved the way for the rise of Mr. Thaksin, whose progressive policies weakened their grip even more."

They won't pour their forex into defending the baht. No way.. Just let the market see where it goes. Any other policy is idiotically risky.

What other options do they have to devalue the currency?

OP "Devaluing the baht — by, say, 20 percent — also is necessary, to stimulate exports of goods such as rice, rubber, electronics and cars. The standard risks of devaluation would be minimal: Thailand has a tiny stock of foreign-denominated debt, and prices for consumer goods are falling. Yet the Bank of Thailand, the central bank, has been reluctant to significantly weaken the baht. The power elites, facing a sluggish economy at home, have been investing overseas, incurring liabilities in foreign currency; they want to buy their dollars for cheap."

But The OP again, "The Bangkok-based establishment also fears the political implications of a devaluation. When the baht collapsed in 1997, many fortunes were wiped out. Then the whole economy collapsed, discrediting the traditional elites’ stewardship. That in turn led to the adoption of a liberal constitution that restrained their political power and paved the way for the rise of Mr. Thaksin, whose progressive policies weakened their grip even more."

Letting the baht float and find its value is completely different to 97.

It's at 36. It was at 30. There is 20%

I think they mean 20% from the date of the article which would mean 43

If they haven't learnt their lesson from 97 and try to defend it, then they are really really dumb.

OP "The Bangkok-based establishment also fears the political implications of a devaluation. When the baht collapsed in 1997, many fortunes were wiped out. Then the whole economy collapsed, discrediting the traditional elites’ stewardship. That in turn led to the adoption of a liberal constitution that restrained their political power and paved the way for the rise of Mr. Thaksin, whose progressive policies weakened their grip even more."

Thailand like the rest of the Far East and South East Asia benefited from the China boom and now is suffering along with China during the China slow down.

The China slow down has further to fall and the region will be further effected by this slowdown.

The blame game will continue and every GOP type nutcase at the NEW YORK TIMES will throw in his useless opinion.

OP "Devaluing the baht — by, say, 20 percent — also is necessary, to stimulate exports of goods such as rice, rubber, electronics and cars. The standard risks of devaluation would be minimal: Thailand has a tiny stock of foreign-denominated debt, and prices for consumer goods are falling. Yet the Bank of Thailand, the central bank, has been reluctant to significantly weaken the baht. The power elites, facing a sluggish economy at home, have been investing overseas, incurring liabilities in foreign currency; they want to buy their dollars for cheap."

But The OP again, "The Bangkok-based establishment also fears the political implications of a devaluation. When the baht collapsed in 1997, many fortunes were wiped out. Then the whole economy collapsed, discrediting the traditional elites’ stewardship. That in turn led to the adoption of a liberal constitution that restrained their political power and paved the way for the rise of Mr. Thaksin, whose progressive policies weakened their grip even more."

It would be hard to disagree with the original post. If true and accurate, it is a damning condemnation on the state Thailand is in and how it got there. It mentions the responsibility that the 'amartya' or 'elites' have, since it is they who have treated Thailand and it's resources like personal ATM's for decades. But it is mild enough in it's language.

Personally, instead iof attacking Yingluck for the subsidies she put in place,Thais should instead attack those people who are really and demonstrably responsible for the parlous state Thailand is actually in, which becomes more obvious every day to anyone who is paying attention.

That means *all* the people responsible, but that won't happen.

Agreed. I was amazed when I read the OP that it would be allowed to be posted here.

truely sad but right. And....no change in sight. So I can't see any improving economy or any growth

Maybe try reading the OP. They suggest, "The only way to jolt Thailand out of its economic stagnation is to implement two measures that are sure to upset the Bangkok-based traditional elites: dramatically raise rural incomes (to spur domestic consumption) and aggressively devalue the baht (to boost exports)."

OP again, "The Thai state spent more than 72 percent of public funds in greater Bangkok, where only 17 percent of Thais lived, according to 2012 figures from the World Bank, the most recent data available."

This figure showing public spending split like this towards Bangkok is absolutely outrageous don't you think?

Yet anyone who dares to focus on the majority outside is branded populist. Sad sad indictment on the system in Thailand.

I agree. It is difficult at best to get anyone to even read the OP which tells the story very clearly and what to do about it.

Thailand like the rest of the Far East and South East Asia benefited from the China boom and now is suffering along with China during the China slow down.

The China slow down has further to fall and the region will be further effected by this slowdown.

The blame game will continue and every GOP type nutcase at the NEW YORK TIMES will throw in his useless opinion.

OP "Devaluing the baht — by, say, 20 percent — also is necessary, to stimulate exports of goods such as rice, rubber, electronics and cars. The standard risks of devaluation would be minimal: Thailand has a tiny stock of foreign-denominated debt, and prices for consumer goods are falling. Yet the Bank of Thailand, the central bank, has been reluctant to significantly weaken the baht. The power elites, facing a sluggish economy at home, have been investing overseas, incurring liabilities in foreign currency; they want to buy their dollars for cheap."

But The OP again, "The Bangkok-based establishment also fears the political implications of a devaluation. When the baht collapsed in 1997, many fortunes were wiped out. Then the whole economy collapsed, discrediting the traditional elites’ stewardship. That in turn led to the adoption of a liberal constitution that restrained their political power and paved the way for the rise of Mr. Thaksin, whose progressive policies weakened their grip even more."

Letting the baht float and find its value is completely different to 97.

It's at 36. It was at 30. There is 20%

I think they mean 20% from the date of the article which would mean 43

Thailand like the rest of the Far East and South East Asia benefited from the China boom and now is suffering along with China during the China slow down.

The China slow down has further to fall and the region will be further effected by this slowdown.

The blame game will continue and every GOP type nutcase at the NEW YORK TIMES will throw in his useless opinion.

OP "Devaluing the baht — by, say, 20 percent — also is necessary, to stimulate exports of goods such as rice, rubber, electronics and cars. The standard risks of devaluation would be minimal: Thailand has a tiny stock of foreign-denominated debt, and prices for consumer goods are falling. Yet the Bank of Thailand, the central bank, has been reluctant to significantly weaken the baht. The power elites, facing a sluggish economy at home, have been investing overseas, incurring liabilities in foreign currency; they want to buy their dollars for cheap."

But The OP again, "The Bangkok-based establishment also fears the political implications of a devaluation. When the baht collapsed in 1997, many fortunes were wiped out. Then the whole economy collapsed, discrediting the traditional elites’ stewardship. That in turn led to the adoption of a liberal constitution that restrained their political power and paved the way for the rise of Mr. Thaksin, whose progressive policies weakened their grip even more."

truely sad but right. And....no change in sight. So I can't see any improving economy or any growth

Maybe try reading the OP. They suggest, "The only way to jolt Thailand out of its economic stagnation is to implement two measures that are sure to upset the Bangkok-based traditional elites: dramatically raise rural incomes (to spur domestic consumption) and aggressively devalue the baht (to boost exports)."

OP again, "The Thai state spent more than 72 percent of public funds in greater Bangkok, where only 17 percent of Thais lived, according to 2012 figures from the World Bank, the most recent data available."

If Internet service providers provide enough bandwidth capacity that will allow users to watch movies online. If so, I think entry of Netflix company to the Asian TV shows market, will be a big impact. Of course, if the prices for the month of use will be cheap enough. But the prices in America and Europe show us that price for Netflix services isn't only the conversion of currency exchange rates between dollar and euro. But it's adaptation to the average financial situation in the country. If the price will be around several $ per month, then I think that Netflix will find many new customers here in Asia.

Why pay for stuff you get for free now?

To "save" Thailand's economy...one must save the world's economies...China's economy is in rapid decline...taking down many dependent nations with it...there is no good news or light on the horizon...batten down the hatches...reign in unnecessary debt...secure your family and valuables...this could be a very long ride all downhill from here for decades to come...

Nonsense did you even read the OP? Why don't you at least attempt to discuss the OP?

OP "The junta led by Gen. Prayuth Chan-ocha has also compounded these difficulties. When it should have been encouraging domestic spending, it suspended the massive agricultural subsidies put in place by the Yingluck government. It has announced that it will speed up spending on some 17 so-called mega-road and -railway projects worth $47 billion. But an infrastructure-centered stimulus will not have an impact on domestic demand for years."

The OP is a damning recital of the policies of the current government not China. Did you even read it?

Yes, I did read it...and stand by my post that the problem is greater than just what happens locally in Thailand...notwithstanding...current political unrest and bad judgment...for whatever reason one likes to contribute to the decline...it is a worldwide phenomenon which will not go away anytime soon...

The junta exacerbates the problem in Thailand for sure...

So, why not post about the topic instead of useless generic stuff about the international economy? For example from the OP, "The generals’ economic policy is hampered by concern for their core constituents, the Bangkok-based establishment: a patronage network among the bureaucracy, the judiciary, the army, business elites"

Yes, it's sad. Thailand should be the food bowl and major manufacturing hub of the region , as well as its tourist industry. But how many Thai companies are world class? Maybe 2...Siam Cement certainly.

K Bank? Gets tough after that.

Some years ago I saw an opinion passed (Thailand Jumped the Shark as I recall) as to why this is, which seemed sensible. The poster (Fonzi) suggested that Thais expect deference and in USA/Europe they just don't get it. Also, they don't have the acumen to manage profits in places where labour is not dirt cheap and people are not prepared to be treated badly.

I remember Thaksin trying tio insist that players and staff at Manchester City should wai him. Well, he just got laughed at - understandably. Thais don't adapt well to different cultures, and they always have the face thing.

Maybe it's a factor.

Face and Wai you gotta be kidding? From the OP, "That network has created staggering inequality: Just 0.1 percent of Thais hold nearly half of the country’s total wealth, according to a 2012 study by the National Economics and Social Development Board, the state economic planning agency

Thais are pouring idle cash into luxury condominiums and high-end shopping malls. Some $1.5 billion have been earmarked for the construction near Bangkok’s historic center of Icon Siam, a shopping mall with retail space the size of 75 soccer fields. Touted as a symbol of “eternal prosperity,” this grand palace of commerce is also a monument to the junta’s misguided economic vision: the promise of consumption with too few consumers who have the income to fulfill it."

In case you don't know what the above means. Thai rich people have got more money from the poor people every year and are now running out of places to put the money and push is about to come to shove.

"Face and Wai you gotta be kidding?"

No, I wasn't kidding, it's pretty well documented.

And yes, I do know what the above means and I agree with what I suspect is your opinion about it all. I just don't think I fully understood how bad it has got under the feudal barons. No wonder they want to both conceal and perpetuate it.

No wonder the beer baron (Boonrawd as I recall but I may be wrong and apologise if I am) disowned his loud-mouthed daughter, though that was obviously public consumption only and wasn't for real.

—OP " The return of autocracy to Thailand is putting a hole in the people’s pockets. Sixteen months after the coup that brought down the democratically elected government of Yingluck Shinawatra, incomes in rural areas, where more than 34 million Thais live, have collapsed. "

To "save" Thailand's economy...one must save the world's economies...China's economy is in rapid decline...taking down many dependent nations with it...there is no good news or light on the horizon...batten down the hatches...reign in unnecessary debt...secure your family and valuables...this could be a very long ride all downhill from here for decades to come...

Nonsense did you even read the OP? Why don't you at least attempt to discuss the OP?

OP "The junta led by Gen. Prayuth Chan-ocha has also compounded these difficulties. When it should have been encouraging domestic spending, it suspended the massive agricultural subsidies put in place by the Yingluck government. It has announced that it will speed up spending on some 17 so-called mega-road and -railway projects worth $47 billion. But an infrastructure-centered stimulus will not have an impact on domestic demand for years."

The OP is a damning recital of the policies of the current government not China. Did you even read it?

Thailand needs an astute businessman , with good international relations , to encourage inward investment and open markets around the world .

A man who might make billions for himself , might also be capable of making it for the country . At present there doesn't seem to be such a man in Thailand .

Yes, it's sad. Thailand should be the food bowl and major manufacturing hub of the region , as well as its tourist industry. But how many Thai companies are world class? Maybe 2...Siam Cement certainly.

K Bank? Gets tough after that.

Some years ago I saw an opinion passed (Thailand Jumped the Shark as I recall) as to why this is, which seemed sensible. The poster (Fonzi) suggested that Thais expect deference and in USA/Europe they just don't get it. Also, they don't have the acumen to manage profits in places where labour is not dirt cheap and people are not prepared to be treated badly.

I remember Thaksin trying tio insist that players and staff at Manchester City should wai him. Well, he just got laughed at - understandably. Thais don't adapt well to different cultures, and they always have the face thing.

Maybe it's a factor.

Minor group is owned by an American turned Thai so I didn't count that.

Heinecke moved here when he was 14 years old and founded the group thereafter, American by parentage and that's about all!

Heinecke was an American citizen till he got rich in Thailand and gave up his American citizenship in 1991.

Jeeze, he spent his entire life, from age 14, in Asia building an Asian group of companies, what more do you want!

He was an American till 1991. That's all I said. Born an American and stayed an American for most of his life. He changed in 91 for tax purposes. I'm only quoting facts you seem to think one gets nationality by osmosis.

He doesn't even speak Thai! Or any other Asian language.

You omit the larger ones, Minor Group and CP Group.

Minor group is owned by an American turned Thai so I didn't count that.

Heinecke moved here when he was 14 years old and founded the group thereafter, American by parentage and that's about all!

Heinecke was an American citizen till he got rich in Thailand and gave up his American citizenship in 1991.

Thailand needs an astute businessman , with good international relations , to encourage inward investment and open markets around the world .

A man who might make billions for himself , might also be capable of making it for the country . At present there doesn't seem to be such a man in Thailand .

Yes, it's sad. Thailand should be the food bowl and major manufacturing hub of the region , as well as its tourist industry. But how many Thai companies are world class? Maybe 2...Siam Cement certainly.

K Bank? Gets tough after that.

PTT, Bangkok Bank, Central, Thai Bev, Big C, Indorama, all the hospital companies, and I could go on cause I actually know something about Thai business.

Most of them notably operating in industries of limits to foreign entry..... Big C? Strewth

So? You think China is fair? Is that how they got to be #2?

What has China got to do with it?

The thread is about how to save the Thai economy not about fairness in competition for Farangs. China got to be #2 Because they were unfair to the international competition as did Japan and the East India company. You wrote, "Most of them notably operating in industries of limits to foreign entry." which has nothing to do with saving the Thai economy it would only hurt the Thai economy to open it up to more international competition.

Thailand needs an astute businessman , with good international relations , to encourage inward investment and open markets around the world .

A man who might make billions for himself , might also be capable of making it for the country . At present there doesn't seem to be such a man in Thailand .

Yes, it's sad. Thailand should be the food bowl and major manufacturing hub of the region , as well as its tourist industry. But how many Thai companies are world class? Maybe 2...Siam Cement certainly.

K Bank? Gets tough after that.

PTT, Bangkok Bank, Central, Thai Bev, Big C, Indorama, all the hospital companies, and I could go on cause I actually know something about Thai business.

Most of them notably operating in industries of limits to foreign entry..... Big C? Strewth

So? You think China is fair? Is that how they got to be #2?

You omit the larger ones, Minor Group and CP Group.

Minor group is owned by an American turned Thai so I didn't count that.

Thailand needs an astute businessman , with good international relations , to encourage inward investment and open markets around the world .

A man who might make billions for himself , might also be capable of making it for the country . At present there doesn't seem to be such a man in Thailand .

Yes, it's sad. Thailand should be the food bowl and major manufacturing hub of the region , as well as its tourist industry. But how many Thai companies are world class? Maybe 2...Siam Cement certainly.

K Bank? Gets tough after that.

PTT, Bangkok Bank, Central, Thai Bev, Big C, Indorama, all the hospital companies, and I could go on cause I actually know something about Thai business.

Yes, well your list would be greeted with howls of laughter in most business circles.

Ya right, http://www.thaicom.net/src/misc/TOP50ASEANCGScorecard.pdf

From the OP and the real crux of the problem, "The generals’ economic policy is hampered by concern for their core constituents, the Bangkok-based establishment: a patronage network among the bureaucracy, the judiciary, the army, business elites and the palace. That network has created staggering inequality: Just 0.1 percent of Thais hold nearly half of the country’s total wealth, according to a 2012 study by the National Economics and Social Development Board, the state economic planning agency."

End of quote

PS don't get angry with me I didn't write the above it was posted by Webfact/Thaivisa and written by the NYT.

Thailand needs an astute businessman , with good international relations , to encourage inward investment and open markets around the world .

A man who might make billions for himself , might also be capable of making it for the country . At present there doesn't seem to be such a man in Thailand .

Yes, it's sad. Thailand should be the food bowl and major manufacturing hub of the region , as well as its tourist industry. But how many Thai companies are world class? Maybe 2...Siam Cement certainly.

K Bank? Gets tough after that.

PTT, Bangkok Bank, Central, Thai Bev, Big C, Indorama, all the hospital companies, and I could go on cause I actually know something about Thai business.