lannarebirth

I think people are going to need to factor in the comments Sondhi just made and which webfact has kindly posted on the news thread via Tulsie.

There have now been several powerful people say very similar things to Sondhi. And however you analyse it the Dems are getting caught in the middle now.

Sondhi's probably right about the Big Picture, but I think that's Abhisit's whole raison d' etre isn't it, to be that transformative PM? I'm not saying he can pull it off, but he represents the political dialogue aspect to this solution. The guns in the street aspect may prove too much for him though.

Abhisit has failed. He cannot represent the dialog: on contrary he is an obstacle to a solution

So you think extra constitutional parties should cut a deal between each other for however long that may last?

I think people are going to need to factor in the comments Sondhi just made and which webfact has kindly posted on the news thread via Tulsie.

There have now been several powerful people say very similar things to Sondhi. And however you analyse it the Dems are getting caught in the middle now.

Sondhi's probably right about the Big Picture, but I think that's Abhisit's whole raison d' etre isn't it, to be that transformative PM? I'm not saying he can pull it off, but he represents the political dialogue aspect to this solution. The guns in the street aspect may prove too much for him though.

Reds are fighting for the thing that so many stupid farangs who have written on this website take for granted in their home countries: democracy. For those who think it is purely about Thaksin's interests, you are so wrong (although, of course, he is the leader of the red shirts).

The real coward in all this is the Thai government, which was not elected by The People and is, therefore, not prepared to hold an election because they know they have absolutely no chance of winning. And why do they have absolutely no chance of winning? Because they know The People would not vote for them. And that, my friends, is why the red shirts are fighting: let The People decide who should run the country.

So the Red Shirts are fighting over some future event they have no evidence will ever occur?

Hey, let me ask you this. Can a countyr have a democratic society without the rule of law? I ask because I note the sympathies of the police force are with the Red protesters but at the same time the police force is an ineffective, corrupt and oppressive organization; against the poor in particular. That doesn't strike you as odd or questionable?

It confirms several points;

1- Abhisit is a Partisan leader not a stateman able to overpass his party for the safe of the Nation.

2- How stubborn and selfish most of the Thai Politicians are.

3- Unfortunately, we are heading to a major conflict which can be out of hand

4- IMHO, it is paradoxical, because I am fundamentally for democracy and against a coup-, but in those circumstances Anupong has shown restraints and -it is my feeling- he appreciates the situation far better than the Government. He should take over and named Anand for a transition period, organising elections after setting up fair rules.

Hey Jerry,

Have you been watching any of the legislation that's being passed in Parliament on a daily basis while this crisis has been diverting everyone's attention? Follow the money Jerry. Or as my father taught me, "don't pay too much attention to what people say, watch what they DO"

I hope peace will come to Thailand.

I hope the bad guy stop killing solider again and again, just like yesterday.

love,hope chaarity....such great aspirations....keep hoping in this land of the possible.

If there is enough hope. The killing of soldiers by the RED protesters will stop. I sincerely hope they will.

That will require the reds to lay down their arms.

And cast off the shackles of their local nai.

For those of you confused as to why the Baht is so strong and remains strong, let me offer an opinion.

Normally in Thailand the budget before the last year of power of a government is where rampant and massive corruption occurs.

Politicians need money to pay for the next election and therefore the final budget before the last year is where they get money spent on projects where their supporters have interests and so the money is fed back to the politicians.

Its like the retirement fund/new election campaign funds kitty.

This is why the Reds are doing their demo now, they too know this happens.

With regards to the baht, others also know this happens and so they pile money into investments into "Democrat / BJT / Coalition parties" companies, knowing that end of this year and early next year these companies will win lots of government tenders and work and have a great year.

This flow of funds into Thailand investing in these companies and associated investments is what is making the baht strong.

If the election is Q42 2011 then from June onwards next year the baht will plummet.

If the present government gets kicked out, the baht will also plummet.

If the present government remains in power the baht will remain strong, until the budget is over and then the companies associated with friends and family of the government win massive government business and then it will go down as an election nears.

With regards to the pound, it is "extra weak" presently due to uncertainty over the elections in the UK and the possibility of a hung parliament. Once the election is done then the pound will bounce a bit.

Of course no figures produced.

Just speculative drivel apart from drawing upon his hero Thaksin for inspiration re rampant and massive corruption occurs

Where the purpose, of course, is to offset this.

Draw attention away from Thaksin.

That is your job.

If you do not know about the "last budget before the final year before the elections" in Thailand then you seriously know nothing about how the system works.

Democrat / BJT and Coalition MP's will now be pushing their "pet" projects to ensure in the budget that lots of money is allocated to projects, which of course their friends and families and supporters businesses will win.

They are all now trying their best to ensure they have the maximum funds for their election campaign, which will be used to "buy victory".

Why do you think they are hanging on and not dissolving the house taking in the mess in the country, the deaths and everything else.

This is most normal for all Thai governments, regardless of color, and its why the Reds now are trying to make it most difficult for the Coalition parties who must hang on regardless to ensure they get to set the budget (and therefore the projects) that will "feed" them in 2011 and their election campaigns.

I find your posts on the political threads total crap, but these posts seem quite plausible and not at all hard to believe, thanks.

Another one never been North of Don Muang Airport. They are so easy to spot on this forum. Made this statement to a few posters and no rebuttle.....I must be right then

You keep repeating this. What is it supposed to mean?

It means that these people have little or no idea (not their fault) of the plight of the poor

Well, I'm gonna have to call bullshit on that one. There are poor people living in every province of Thailand. Some of the slums in Bangkok make Isaan look like the Club Med. FYI, your Thai experience is not more valid than anyone elses though I'm sure you mean well.

Another one never been North of Don Muang Airport. They are so easy to spot on this forum. Made this statement to a few posters and no rebuttle.....I must be right then

No it does not mean that you are right. Sad to say it probably means they are all thinking 'what is the point'?, what is the point of trying to communicate with somebody that is on permenant transmit, and 'receive' is switched off!

100% agreed, what is the point of comments like that?

Tomorrow I am going to head a kilometer or two North of Don Muang Airport and find out what is going on there. Maybe a new red light district.

Be sure to bring your passport if you intend to venture past Future Park.

Another one never been North of Don Muang Airport. They are so easy to spot on this forum. Made this statement to a few posters and no rebuttle.....I must be right then

You keep repeating this. What is it supposed to mean?

Also why aint Thaivisa posting news about the democrat dissolution case. Today the Constitution court accepted EC's case involving 28 (or was it 29...) million baht. The democrats have 15 days to present their defence. That case is moving much faster then anticipated, and will be hard for the Democrats to stall. Might see a ruling before june?

Incorrect. "The Democrat Party is required to submit a defence statement in 15 days of receiving the court's notice"

What is with this 'George' - on a 'closed, thread' (the 'Daily update thingy').

"Hey, nothing gets between a Thai and a meal! Everyone should have that priority straight!!

TODAYS PICK: Kwanchai's escape to McDonalds: http://twitpic.com/1j2pkd (Photo by photo_journ)

@tiggervince: Does all the red protesters get to enjoy a Happy Meal from Mac's after being back in Rajprasong or only the leader does? "

So, other people can not respond - but you can put petty-<deleted> remarks up ... AS YOU ARE THE BOSS.

You have just lost your credibility.

It is a 'read only' thread ... 'in the voice of ONE PERSON' - then it should be banned !

No more to say.

Regards,

Kevin

I saw it as a small bit of levity in what have been many anxious and worrying days. Nice one George, and so true.

i am shocked. did you see the last interviews he gave with the BBC and CNN? He came off as a complete fool, a very bad liar, and looked like he wanted to crawl into a hole. I would be very surprised if it does not fall through, or if it does go, I imagine it will be softball questions like "Do you want Thai people to join together?".. "Will there be peace in Thailand?"... "Do you want to improve the standard of living?"

And not questions like, "Do you feel it inappropriate for the leader of the army to setup meetings between different political parties in an attempt to unseat the political party with the majority of the seats".... "Why did you choose a PAD leader as your Foreign Minister?", "Is Prem involved in politics?" etc etc etc

So bored of people like you go on and on about this is not fair and this is not fair get a life its not fair too... thats why now I follow twitter more ...it is up to date with real news and no more boring comments...... long live twitter down with the blogs...

On Thai Visa or Twitter, responding to year old threads is probably not going to very productive.

Where does it say that you can't remove part of a post and quote only a part of it? You're battling a silly argument here. I bet if I went back in your posts, I could find that you did the same thing. So drop it please, it's quite off-topic.

It's actually desirable to chop people's text!

Though I disagree with the policy that's what a mod politely PM'd to me recently. I think chopping down to a sentence you're responding to leaves it out of context and highlighting within the body of the original post is prefererable, but TV policy begs to differ.

It seems some have never been in the position of managing other people or delegating authority and responsibility. If I'd only had people telling me what to do all my life I might feel just the same way as you.

So what do we need the puppet for?

I assume you use it when you "Weng"?

I actually wonder how the macho ones in the reds wil ltake Khwanchai running away. Thai politics is very macho and absolutely nobody believes he didnt run away and leave his people exposed

Glad to see Abhisit on the contrary was standing right there alongside his army troops and policemen, in the middle of the battlefield, when they did their job.

Yep just like Thaksin when he ordered thousands to be klilled

So we agree on the fact that leaders never stand by their troops and followers? Glad, then we don't need to flame one side for not being there.

It seems some have never been in the position of managing other people or delegating authority and responsibility. If I'd only had people telling me what to do all my life I might feel just the same way as you.

Living here for past 3 years and coming to Thailand for past 11 years, I have realized that a man like Abhisit is not the right kind of Prime Minster. They need someone that people not only respect but also afraid of.

This country is always in verge of anarchy. Examples are all over. I see it all the time. One example, when in traffic, if one car goes to the opposite traffic lane all other cars will follow, in a store, if one person cuts queue, then everyone start to cut.

Laws can't be just drawn it should be enforceable, and I don't see this with Abhisit

If the world had not shifted to a globalized economy, if resources weren't diminishing, if a succession weren't coming up, I might agree with you. Thailand now needs a transformative government to take it away from the former "balance of opposing interests" governance its had heretofore. The balance is about to shift too radically IMO, so Abhisit needs to make a stand now. Sure, he may fail...

Not only the immunity thing but this was a demand that must be met (house dissolution in 30 days) before they would even agree to sit down and talk.

Plus Abhisit has been pretty clear this is not a solution to Thailand's problems and the Reds are by no means a representative of all the parties and people in Thailand who also need to be considered. Although not said in these words he also seemed to indicate that ...

Elections under threats by a mob will solve nothing and will simply lead to more coups. Remember there have been 18 coups in Thailand in 77 years. This is almost 1 for every 4-year election period.

Abhisit is also legally the PM and was voted in by elected parliment as was the last two PMs. There is NO legal reason for him to hold elections and there is NOTHING going on in the country to indicate he should hold early elections accept for a lawless mob whose only goal is to bring down the current gov't in hopes of bringing back one that is banned and whose leader is a convicted Thai criminal on the run. Make no mistake about it ... the red leaders have made clear that NO policies Abhisit could put in place will save him from their demands to hold elections. THIS IS NOTHING ABOUT THE NEEDS OF THE POOR AND STILL REMAINS TO BE ABOUT 1 MAN.

The facts are very clear that Abisit in 18 months has provided a number of policies to help the poor and elderly as well as the farmers of Thailand and has implimented NO policies to hurt them. He has not taken away anything Thaksin in 6 years put in place and in fact has taken some of Thaksin's policies and made them better such as FREE healthcare instead of Thaksin's one time payment thing which was a failure.

A question for you.... If Abhisit is legally the PM why does the worlds media doubt it?In every article or interview with Abhisit it is raised as an issue. When he is asked about it he looks very uncomfortable. Are the world's media all wrong and you and the Nation right?

A question for you...... Why aren't the Red Shirt leaders willing to be grilled in the same way for an international audience, whereby they must defend everything they have said and done?

Great question! I would love to see them on Hard Talk! That would be priceless. Of course, they never would because they are rabidly anti-free press and anti-democracy. They are for free press ONLY if it is their propaganda.

Given a two day notice, I would buy a TV, get UBC and break my 10 year separation from the idiot box just to witness that spectacle.

I don't think we know enough to know for sure why the latest demand didn't go further. I suspect it has something to do with red shirt leader immunity. I think the government may feel that is impossible to grant now after what has recently happened.

Not only the immunity thing but this was a demand that must be met (house dissolution in 30 days) before they would even agree to sit down and talk.

Plus Abhisit has been pretty clear this is not a solution to Thailand's problems and the Reds are by no means a representative of all the parties and people in Thailand who also need to be considered. Although not said in these words he also seemed to indicate that ...

Elections under threats by a mob will solve nothing and will simply lead to more coups. Remember there have been 18 coups in Thailand in 77 years. This is almost 1 for every 4-year election period.

Abhisit is also legally the PM and was voted in by elected parliment as was the last two PMs. There is NO legal reason for him to hold elections and there is NOTHING going on in the country to indicate he should hold early elections accept for a lawless mob whose only goal is to bring down the current gov't in hopes of bringing back one that is banned and whose leader is a convicted Thai criminal on the run. Make no mistake about it ... the red leaders have made clear that NO policies Abhisit could put in place will save him from their demands to hold elections. THIS IS NOTHING ABOUT THE NEEDS OF THE POOR AND STILL REMAINS TO BE ABOUT 1 MAN.

The facts are very clear that Abisit in 18 months has provided a number of policies to help the poor and elderly as well as the farmers of Thailand and has implimented NO policies to hurt them. He has not taken away anything Thaksin in 6 years put in place and in fact has taken some of Thaksin's policies and made them better such as FREE healthcare instead of Thaksin's one time payment thing which was a failure.

A question for you.... If Abhisit is legally the PM why does the worlds media doubt it?In every article or interview with Abhisit it is raised as an issue. When he is asked about it he looks very uncomfortable. Are the world's media all wrong and you and the Nation right?

A question for you...... Why aren't the Red Shirt leaders willing to be grilled in the same way for an international audience, whereby they must defend everything they have said and done?

Trying to come up with lame excuse to blame the protest. Comparing to peaceful mobs in other countries is just stupid.

Looking back at each of every of your country. What would your leader do when there are sooo many people go against Gov.

None of your leader will never ever refuse a fair election. Abhisit's Gov lacks of legitimacy is the root problem.

Using force to suppress Reds violently is apparently what dictators do.

Lots of farangs here do support this idea not because any democratic shit.

Because all they want is a peace atmoshere for stock market. .. for their own sake of investment .. not for Thais.

I seem to remember the las 2 American presidents having approval ratings in the 20 percentile range. Everyone knew when the next election would be held and that's when they made their voices heard.

that is easy just hold an free and fair election JOB DONE

Not remotely possible in a country where village headmen in numerous rural regions will happily deliver 100 votes in exchange for 5000Bt and a handful of Viagra....

You know, it doesn't surprise me very much when I hear Thai people incorrectly describe democracy and the institutions that support it. I am always shocked however by the ignorance of foreigners who come from countries with a long history of democratic government. They seem to think counting votes (however gathered) is the single fundamental aspect of a democratic society.

The reds have a manifesto, it's pretty clear what they want..it's expressed simply and it seems perfectly reasonable...they want a vote and some representation in government...not too much to ask for in my opinion...

They had a huge representation in government, twice, till they got booted out. For fraud that is!

The reds and their political backers (PT, Shinawatras) will have to wait till the next elections! Nothing unfair about this! Thats democracy!

They will probably win the next election, so whats the rush. If they play it fair and square they shouldnt have to worry.

Actually they still have well over 200 red representives in Parliament the entire PTP party,

PLUS it's coalition partners. What they don't have is control of the Cabinet, Army List and Budgets..

.

This is their idea of representation. Hand them total control or they create war in the streets.

Nice manifesto eh?

Thats what I kept pondering. They hate the PM, but what about all of their own reps in the parliament? Misdirected anger or just plain ignorant, the reds don't seem to realize if they're gettin' shafted by anybody its their own boys in the parliament who disregard them. Maybe they'll start a riot and mayhem over that next.

What's more, even when they weren't in opposition but were in power, the govts of samak and Somchai didn't do even one single initiative for them. All efforts were focused on aiding Thaksin. PTP IMO barely meets any definition of a political party. One day its in parliament doing nothing, the next day its bailing violent thugs out of jail to carry on their viloence against the public.

TAN Network: Soldiers back away from further confrontation allowing reds to return to Ratchprasong

that might sound like a bad call but these boys will go back to the others and tell them just how scary that confrontation was and there will be less reds returning to the site tomorrow

they won't be quite so cocky either.....

And some may decide they have more important business elsewhere as they make their way back.

From reports, I don't think there's any question the unfortunate soldier was killed by police fire. The question that remains in my miind, due to the sympathies we've seen from most police is, was the killing intentional?

Seagate is mulling relocating to China, Western Digital to Malaysia. These are all rumours of course, but only a couple of months after similar rumours from Sony started popping up from the same sources, Sony announced they are moving to Malaysia.

Investors do not like risks and uncertainty. It is the interests of ALL thais to solve in depth the issue of the Northern population. A crackdown will bring -at the best- only a temporary solution, because sooner or later the Thai 2 speed development consequences will re-surface. bangkokians have to invest in Northern Thailand: it is their well understood interest

Investors will avoid Thailand until they have a certainty of stability.

What you fail to realize is that there are many many wealthy rural people. Why do you not take your arguments to them first? I agree the central government should do what it can, but you must remember the financial and business districts are in Bangkok. This is the center of investment. This is where the jobs are. This is where the taxes come from. And this is where the largest portion of the tax money will be spent. If it is not this way then the country of Thailand will become not be competitive. The factories are scattered around the country, but the ones geared toward the export market need to be near the coast. These are the basic facts.

I'm not sure Jerry travels around the North much. For the past ten years there has been an unending string of investment, in agricultural, industrial, commercial and residential development here in Chiang Mai. Meanwhile the population has nearly tripled. Government, investors and individuals are making decisions to improve the status quo. I'm sorry Jerry isn't seeing that.

To avoid this, the government could stick with the age old strategy that has been working in Thailand for decades. They could, 1.) Look as if they are taking the high road, dissolve Parliment and call for new elections. 2.) When the red shirts win by landslide numbers once again, accuse their government of corruption and stage yet another coup. 3.) When the poor once again protest repeat numbers 1 and 2.

This tactic has been working for decades so why change now?

I'm only being half sarcastic. Anything could happen and nothing would surprise me.

Yes, why they haven't done this is strange. The courts will do whatever Prem and otehrs want them to do so why delay the inevitable. Get the elections underway then after the results favour pheu thai wait a few months and then dissolve the party and put a few leaders in jail.

Impugning the integrity of the Thai courts. Interesting. How is it that Thaksin passed the test when he was first appointed PM? And why was it it took so long for his and the Mrs. court cases to progress? How is it that all the Red leaders are out free (well, except for the guy who got caught cowering in the van today)? Are you saying the judges did not follow the advice of His Majesty when he told them to be fair (not this time, the last time)? Or maybe its because they didn't take the pastry box that Thaksin's lawyers left on the table?

Fairness or equity is a fairly new concept in law and has a corrupting influence IMO, particularly in a society prone to "pu yai" tendencies. Good laws, applied equally without prejudice create the most "fairness" over time.