lannarebirth

It's such a joke - the yellow's calling for Martial law after they crippled the country and set this bad example - THEY started it all by bringing down an elected red government.

This fight doesn't have anything to do with democracy, it's about corruption.

BTW there hasn't been any real government here in Thailand ever. Only opposing interests, well balanced. Thailand is approaching a tipping point where the balance will shift to the provincial chao por and nak leng with the backing of rogue army elements. They will use "democracy" (as they see it) to cement their power and redirect all funds intended for the welfare of the people. They will discharge their own largesse through patron client relationships and Thailand becomes a failed state. The peasants get nothing, but that's what they've always got from their local leaders so nothing changes for them.

well... i agree with your first comment - very depressing - they should try reading the Buddha's teachings

Yes, maybe that part where attachment to delusions is the source of sufferering. The failure to see things as they really are...

It's such a joke - the yellow's calling for Martial law after they crippled the country and set this bad example - THEY started it all by bringing down an elected red government.

This fight doesn't have anything to do with democracy, it's about corruption.

BTW there hasn't been any real government here in Thailand ever. Only opposing interests, well balanced. Thailand is approaching a tipping point where the balance will shift to the provincial chao por and nak leng with the backing of rogue army elements. They will use "democracy" (as they see it) to cement their power and redirect all funds intended for the welfare of the people. They will discharge their own largesse through patron client relationships and Thailand becomes a failed state. The peasants get nothing, but that's what they've always got from their local leaders so nothing changes for them.

My wife looks at UDDthailand. they say reds wait an attack from the army within one hour. People put white masks in there faces to prtect from teargas

You mean like those paper surgical type masks? Was it only the leadership that were given gasmasks that were alluded to a couple of posts ^^^ up?

http://twitter.com/photo_journ

Troops have left barracks @ travelled by expressway. Reportedly waiting 4 traffic 2 clear on New Petchburi Rd - according 2 the story

the reds gonna get very paranoid soon.

With all this instant internet technology, when does a jounalist cease to be a chronicler of events and begin to be a forward spotter of the opposing force? I wonder if there is an similar journalist chronicling movements from within the Red Shirt camp?

bangkokpundit It is legal to link to as well! RT: @tumbler_p: [The Economist] Thailand's crisis: Stand-off in Bangkok - http://bit.ly/95Ygtz

http://www.economist.com/world/asia/displa...e=features_box1

Mr Abhisit was the beneficiary of a yellow-shirted revolt that closed Bangkok's international airports. Now he finds himself isolated in his own party and increasingly out of his depth. "I don't know what is keeping him there," muses a Western diplomat.

No Thai will gets this and it seems quite a few foreigners don't as well. He sees his job as one of finding solutions to extremely complex and long neglected problems. He understands with the succession coming that Thailand is at a "tipping point" and its now or never. He needs to heal divisions in Thai society and this is where he starts. Sure, he may fail and many would be only too pleased with that, but Thailand will likely go in to an irreversible slide if that occurs. People on this website like to say he's got no balls, no stomach for a fight, well I disagree.

I hope you are right and everything I see and hear from Abhisit tells me you could be very right except for the part of not having a stomach to move on the mob. I also don't mean this in a bad way but instead he just has a very sincere and deep concern for people and wants to do everything possible to limit the number of casualties. He has admitted (taken responsibility) the mistakes of misjudging the type of mob he was up against originally and I respect this and at this point he does appear to have time on his side. Those who are frustrated with his perceived lack of actions will all be over it once all is said and done. I do truly believe he has this country and the people of it as his main goal. Sure he is a politician but he is very well off financially as is his family and is not the greedy controlling type. My guess is his other driving force may be a legacy but bottom line is no politician is pure. I was actually very disappointed he could not make his US trip because I really could see him forging a close relationship with Obama.

I wasn't talking about that particular fight, just what he's up against in general. He's going to take a lot of heat if he clears the mob. It will likely create many casualties and +possibly do more damage than good. For my part I wish he waits, but I'm not privy to his intelligence so I'm prepared to believe that if he moves to confront he will believe he has no other choice.

bangkokpundit It is legal to link to as well! RT: @tumbler_p: [The Economist] Thailand's crisis: Stand-off in Bangkok - http://bit.ly/95Ygtz

http://www.economist.com/world/asia/displa...e=features_box1

Mr Abhisit was the beneficiary of a yellow-shirted revolt that closed Bangkok's international airports. Now he finds himself isolated in his own party and increasingly out of his depth. "I don't know what is keeping him there," muses a Western diplomat.

No Thai will gets this and it seems quite a few foreigners don't as well. He sees his job as one of finding solutions to extremely complex and long neglected problems. He understands with the succession coming that Thailand is at a "tipping point" and its now or never. He needs to heal divisions in Thai society and this is where he starts. Sure, he may fail and many would be only too pleased with that, but Thailand will likely go in to an irreversible slide if that occurs. People on this website like to say he's got no balls, no stomach for a fight, well I disagree.

Are you kidding me, the group are far from a shadowy group, I am currently in Australia and what is happening in Thailand is getting massive amounts of media exposure, we are able to see and discuss view points you are not. You are silly or naive to think that living in Thailand you are even remotely able to see a balanced view of current events.

The thing you are able to talk about where you are and we can't is about an opportunity arising to cement long into the future the things Thaihome is talking about. What he's talking about is the reality of Thai politics. The succession merely provides the opportunity for many to change allegiances to that darker side and rally around some authoritarian figure who delivers money in return for votes which allows the patronage to continue. If that happens you can give up on ever seeing democracy in Thailand.

I am now watching ThaiTV (channel 11, I think). I am fluent in Thai. The program is DIRECTLY linking Chavalit to Taksin and the red shirts.

It is really an incredible program...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't former-PM Chavalit now chairing PTP, who are Thaksin's current political-party, or what remains of it ? And he was also named as, but shortly afterwards vehemently denied being, the Supreme Commander of the new 'Peoples Army of Thailand' ?

So what's so new, about linking Chavalit to the Red-Shirts & Thaksin ? He's the boss of the political-arm, and they're the street-protest & thug-brigade, of the same broad organisation (sole-proprietor DL).

I think what's new is publicly linking Chavalit to Army Rangers whose army division he setup as a general, who may now be "rogue" soldiers in league with Mr. T/PTP/UDD/ et al.

I am now watching ThaiTV (channel 11, I think). I am fluent in Thai. The program is DIRECTLY linking Chavalit to Taksin and the red shirts.

It is really an incredible program...

That's hardly news. Seh Daeng did the same. I guess the government directly calling a former general and PM subversive doesn't happen every day though.

Fits completely what I said earlier.

The army is behind all this and the army is pulling the strings of Abhisit.

The army wants to turn Thailand in a second Burma and they will succeed by having a PM who is doing exactly as said by them.

If that's what the army wants they would have done it since the 2006 coup.

That the army didn't do that is simply because somebody who is not allowed to be named in this forum was still alive.

That's the reason why they made sure that somebody would be in power where the army had TOTAL control over.

If you can't see the picture, then it is no use to discuss that.

This forum has too much restrictions to debat this theme.

I think you've got it backwards.

BTW, did you know Veera used to be a Democrat, Yes and Sondhi a friend of Thaskin, Yes and Thaksin paid for the education of Anupong's children? Didn't know that but Thai websites speak about a home Anupong's daughter owns in London?

So,

Just coming back from my favourite issan village and some people presented to me the latest present from the Government for helping farming: a Kubota tractor 153 (15 horse power) with 3 disks, transmission by belt. cost 250,000TBT (for around 1000 houses/families)...a joke.

Really there is no policy for helping seriously ISSAN. It is the root of the problem, I have already written a lot about that... Instead to prepare the Civil war, the Government should defuse the situation by announcing a real policy for developing the Northern Country: 42% of the population with 13% of National income.....

Ok:

How about mandatory free schooling to 18 years old?

Not as good as 100k in everyone's bank today, but let's look to the future.

In the past decade most of the governments were red friendly. Yet you want to blame the lack of development in the north east on the ones that have been in power for less than 2 years? I don't think switching governing parties is going to magically fix all their problems.

Chavalit had a big hand in NE projects, both as an Army general and as PM. Now they want him back it seems. Apparently he created nothing sustainable. At least not for the locals.

here some news what goes on in Thailand and about the credibility the current government has left:

Bangkok, April 27 (ANI): At a meeting attended by governors of 61 provinces, Thailand's Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has requested them to inform the residents of their constituencies of the " terrorist behaviour" of some Red Shirt leaders.

...

Mr Chatree Yooprasert, secretary-general of the Association of Provincial Administrative Organisations said, "What is certain is that the government is wrong. This government has long lost its legitimacy to run the country. They should either resign or dissolve the House to solve the country's crisis."

He said that the government must stop interfering with the media and allow it to function freely.He said that the Prime Minister's requests was an attempt to pressurise local bodies. (ANI)

http://in.news.yahoo.com/139/20100426/874/...opposition.html

Not surprising. It's the political/business incestuousness of the provinces that is the main problem isn't it?

Even the red-shirt supporters should agree, if the PAD/NPP don't like him, then he must have some good points ? !

Quite right. I thought it should be obvious to everyone, but apparently it isn't. Abhisit is the middle way and feels obliged to help ALL Thais flourish. The truth is, there are a significant number of people that only want to see their own particular constituency flourish, and that's pretty sad and undemocratic.

Abhisit has lost what little credibility he had.

He wasn't elected and his actions have cost too many lives already.

He only has one choice and that is to dissolve parliament now.

Holding elections in 3 months seems a reasonable way out for everyone.

If he declares martial law then it will result in the loss of many more lives.

Either way he has lost the right to remain PM.

Let the majority decide Thailand's future in proper elections.

Absolutely not... They have shown their terrorist element both on April 10 and last Thursday. The government should not even compromise to 9 months as they originally offered t- to do so would be to cave to the blood-stained demands of a terrorist group.

The UDD are the puppets of Thaksin, and that is their sole purpose to return a corrupt, blood stained dictator to power... The Abhisit government is legitimate and should never cave to the mob.

Sent that Oxford boy back to Britain where he belongs. That aristocrat has no idea how the average Thai working class lives.

You could say the same of Churchill or Roosevelt or Kennedy yet somehow they managed to get work done.

I hope they do not run out of colors. Now we got Reds-which-wear-anything-but-reds mingling with the Multicolored shirts? How do you separate Multicolor Green from Red Green? Is there some kind of secret handshake? Can you wear blue shoes with a red shirt? Or green tie with red jacket? Oh, that would be 70's! Is the color pink already taken by some United Group Against Fascism, Nazi Ponies and Evil Ghosts?

Do you think people might start using their brains now? That may hurt enough for everyone to want to go home.

Where is the Thai 'Che Guevara'? Butcher The 'Abraham Lincoln', Great wartime president if that's what you'relooking for the 'Elliott Ness', That's Abhisit the 'Aung San Suu Kyi' A fine symbol of democracy and peaceful resistance. If she ever came to power, probably couldn't govern Burma for 30 days .... Where are the ones that can bring the Changes that are needed? The truth and trust that are missing,... the unity of purpose and vision?

Then let me add... Gandhi... Nehru.... Martin Luther King Jr., Lech Walensa, Cezar Chavez and Nelson Mandela ???

What does it matter, as long as they are fighters against corruption and for systemic change.

CS

I like that group.

where is the fhurer when you need him.

Yes, the power of Mastahcard must be uphold by any means necessary! Shopping must continue!

It is becoming boring really. Everyday I read about, actions that will be taken yet I see very little of it.

Come on mark and Anupong just get it done and over with

Do you want them to "take action", or do you want them to solve problems? If taking action doesn't solve problems and instead creates more, is it still the best course?

It is comical how some of you disassociate the relationship between the PAD and the Democrats, as if the PAD is not the equivalent of the UDD.

You're half right. PAD is the non violent equivalent of the UDD but for the NPP not the Democrats.

Just because you dont see or hear them do anything, nor even read much about it, does not mean that nothing is being done.

I agree. In fact I think there's an inverse correlation between the number of press releases and actual progress being made.

Where is the Thai 'Che Guevara'? Butcher The 'Abraham Lincoln', Great wartime president if that's what you'relooking for the 'Elliott Ness', That's Abhisit the 'Aung San Suu Kyi' A fine symbol of democracy and peaceful resistance. If she ever came to power, probably couldn't govern Burma for 30 days .... Where are the ones that can bring the Changes that are needed? The truth and trust that are missing,... the unity of purpose and vision?

To the O.P.

Great post however I think you are a little off the mark, there are 3 sides to this story and its not only the reds that have used the poor and down trodden to sure up support, thats how all this started one side did not like the way Taksin was using there power base.

The original coup that happened as a result of a group feeling that taksin was starting to overshaddow there good work and that was not ever going to be allowed to happen.

That isn't even an approximation of the truth unless by "overshadow their good work" you mean democracy itself.

did you guys see the main protest site today?

look at it!! numbers surely seem to be dwindling:

tweet photo of red shirt main stage

I think the vendor in this photo is probably not happy with the change to the "colorless shirt".

http://tweetphoto.com/19990699

What are all these vendors going to due with all the left over "red shirt" clothing?

Clever vendors are at this very minute no doubt, stocking multi-colored shirts with the caption "this shirt is red" stenciled on it.

Abhisit is at least trying to be PM of ALL Thailand. That includes the red shirts, the yellow shirts, the multi-color shirts. the shirt non-aligned, etc. The reds try to act as if they are the ONLY faction against the government (which they paint as yellow shirts when they clearly are not) and their red faction must get all its demands met or if not, hold the entire country hostage under threat of real and threatened violence and anarchy. These rather extreme yellow pronouncements make clear it can never be that simple.

Wrong.

Abhisit clearly failed to be the PM for ALL Thailand and he never even tried it to be.

I disagree. Thailand is a highly entropic environment. Abhisit is working hard to remove or neutralize some of the variables that can lead to the destruction of the state. He has brought the command of the military (regardless of rogue elements) under the fold of the central government. His is the only legitimate government or other body that wants to start a national dialogue on the role of the monarchy in Thailand's future. He has sought negotiations with leadership elements of the demonstrators and has not, despite their unlawful assembly, castigated the rank and file members. He has sought to neutralize an enemy of the state that controls a political party and backs an insurgency. All the while while maintaining open communications with the entire population. It's a f'ing enormous undertaking and almost no one wants him to succeed. Despite that he presses on and says he will resign if he can't effect change.

As far as being PM to the ENTIRE population, his measures to give direct price supports to rice growers rather than to middlemen has wide support. His measures to overhaul the education system and extend the term of years available for free extends to all Thais. His measure to implement land taxes to FUND these measures is without precedent and you'd have to be pretty obtuse to not see that is the rich and middle classes who are the payors in that scheme and it is the poor who shall be the payees.

Reality check!

Did it work out? Is he now the beloved PM in North, East, south and West, amongst all classes?

Some people thought he is the man for it. He got support, a helping hand, had his change.And where are we now? Is the unity of Thailand restored or are the people even more divided than ever before?

Success or failure?

I don't get the impression that Abhisit cares whether or not he is beloved. That's for small, petty men to care about. I think he cares about whether or not he can create policies that over time will heal the divisions in Thai society. Almost no one wants him to succeed, because just as a maggot feeds on garbage, there are a multitude of interests that feed on division, conflict and ignorance. The solutions won't come in 16 months, or even 16 years. They will come progressively, over time and will increasingly reap rewards for all Thai people as the impediments to a more just society are diminished or fall away. Let history decide if he was effective, and in the mean time let him do his job.

FOR THE PAST SEVEN WEEKS, Thailand's politics is looking more and more like a Shakespearan tragedy being played out on the streets of Bangkok. Local and foreign media have been mesmerised by the danger of our tug of wars, cancerous political symptoms and the deep divisions in Thai society that used to be known as the poster child of democracy.

Guess which country this writer got his education from - lol

I am somewhat relieved to see that he spelt colored with a "u".