lannarebirth

Thai "red shirts" open to talks to avert crackdown

BANGKOK (Reuters)– 22 mins ago – Thai anti-government protesters occupying an upmarket shopping area of Bangkok said on Wednesday they were open to talks through a third party to prevent bloody clashes with armed troops threatening to forcibly evict them.

The protesters, supporters of ousted former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, said a crackdown was imminent and they were now willing to reconsider their demands for a snap election as hundreds of armed troops massed in a nearby business district for a third day.

"We are open to talks to end the crisis, but not with the government," one of the "red shirt" leaders, Jaran Ditapichai, told Reuters in an interview. Kwanchai Praina said he would propose during a meeting of the group's leaders that they consider a three-month timeframe for Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to dissolve parliament.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100421/ts_nm/us_thailand_129

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Additionally, Kwanchai is the infamous leader of the violent Love Udon Thani group. Six months ago he was essentially kicked out of the reds, but it's interesting to see he is a major player again amongst them.

FINALLY they are talking about compromise!!!!!!

It will probably take them about a day for it to register that compromise at this point makes Abhisit look like a wise and compassionate leader of all Thais and the earlier the elections the better he'll do. They've painted themselves into a really ugly corner I'm afraid.

As per the topic, the Red Shirts would definitely "Intensify Pressure" if a few thousand of them managed to inadvertently asphyxiate themselves:

An anti-government protester wears a plastic bag over his head to prepare for the possibility of tear gas on Tuesday, April 20, 2010 in Bangkok, Thailand.

Yahoo News Service

Uh... This has to be a gag...

Tear gas vs suffocation.. and they choose suffocating...

Go red?

Whose calling Darwin Awards?

I wonder if the PAD is supplying those?

Don't forget rubber... one of my Thai pals is pro Thaksin mainly because he apparently managed to form a rubber cartel that dictated the world rubber price... off the top of my head, my pal said something like:

Thaksin had the rubber price up to (eg: 80 baht)

now it is 10 baht.

I bet Thaksin was rather good at these sort of things, but I just dont know.

I think he was probably pretty good at creating trading opportunities for himself but the market is much bigger than him.

http://www.irco.biz/index.php#

The Yellow lies continue.

Abhisit HAS NOT OFFERED election in 9 months as a stand alone item.

He has said, we can have them in 9 months BUT I MUST CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION FIRST.

He has loaded the "9 months" with the proviso he and his Yellow mates can change the constitution BEFORE THE ELECTION, NO CHANGE THEN NO ELECTION.

What simple part of that can people not understand ??????

He said "9 months IF........"

Now, its already been said, there was a general agreement to amend some parts of the constitution, however, following the loss of the by-elections by BJT the Democrats and BJT and the other coalition partners suddenly wanted to CHANGE THE ELECTION LAWS.

Changes that would mean small parties get more votes and PTP (PPP) get much less.

Now you see why Abhisit and his yellow mates want to change the constitution - they want to rig the election so that PTP cannot win.

Now do you understand why PTP say "no" to amending the constitution now ?

And do you see why Abhisit loaded his "9 months" with the "I MUST CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION FIRST".

In effect he was saying "You are not getting elections unless we can make sure you lose".

All this "9 months" talk is stupid, he never offered it on its own. Do not let the biased propaganda merchants lead you into thinking he offered elections to the reds and that was that, he did not, he offered them 9 months only if he can make changes to ensure PTP lose the election by rigging it so his smaller party coalition members can win more seats by changing the way elections are held.

It was all a big CON and pumped by the propaganda machine.

Abhisit has actually said that the constitution should be changed with input from all sides - government, reds, and other community groups. And then to be voted for by the people in a referendum.

What have the reds offered?

IF they get into power, they will change it to suit them. Not for the benefit of all Thais. Just for the benefit of their corrupt practices and their corrupt leader.

edit: levelhead, you should watch more than just Red TV.

then let him show leadership - not just chit chat - set up a commission - invite all sides - step down the Army - give the date for the commission to sit and the date for the election - then leave the reds to sit there and drift home

You're either being disingenuous or you've forgotten that constitutional reform was already worked out in the parliament among all coalition parties. Chalerm got a telephone call from Thaksin to pull out (which he readily admits) and the process died. Better still would have been public inclusion but none of your folks seem to want to give any time for that. You want to spend all your time dogging this administaration every minute of every day to get out. Still, they're getting more work done on behalf of all Thais than I can ever recall from any government, much to their credit.

Back on topic, that clearly was a good, neutral and responsible article on the part of AI. That's what they need to do, in order to make both sides take notice; can't be perceived as being biased either way. It's good that an organization like AI manages this.

Kee Kwai.

One wonders after hearing so many stories of men being enslaved on Thai fishing vessels, if some of the detainees might not ask for asylum.

I don't think I've ever seen Amnesty International fail to endorse a righteous citizen's movement against what the movement would call an "oppressive regime". It's something to note and wonder about if you still aren't sure what this is all about.

Thailand is the 3rd largest economy in ASEAN After Indonesia & Malaysia, it also gives the military a very healthy budget, I'm sure the cost of this has all been calculated bear in mind there is a form of national service & the minimum wage is nowhere near that of western countries last time I checked it was 185 Baht for Bangkok and 120 Baht upcountry per day.

A little higher than that but not too good.

http://www.mondaq.com/article.asp?articleid=92556

Anybody complaning in 2008? Commodities are volatile, particularly since the grain to gasahol schemes began. If oil goes back up I doubt the farmers will be complaining.

I know Thai rice isn't exactly the same as some other global markets but it won't be too different. About $USD250/ST

Care to explain why the government has promised the farmers 10,000 Baht per ton and then only gives them 6,100 or 6,200 Baht? Seems a little fraudulent to me, to say the least.

Do you care to explain why the oil was promised to be 250$ a barrel but it's only 85$ now?

That's an entirely different issue, don't you think? The poor rice farmers were promised 10,000 Baht as part of a new government scheme. And then they're only paid 6,000 Baht.

You can't really compare that to oil companies making 1 billion profit instead of 3 billion profit.

Dodging the question doesn't make the problem go away.

I can't quite remember what the OP is about but I doubt its about rice so this will be my last post on the subject. When I sell rice I get the local market price, when the market price is beneath the governments benchmark one may seek subsidy from the government for the difference. I've never had to. I don't know why you haven't managed to get the market price or the benchmark price and you've provided no evidence either. This is from a week ago:

http://www.commodityonline.com/news/Thaila...-27279-3-1.html

Anyhow, as I said most rice farmers, particularly small scale rice farmers are very pleased with the governments new scheme. It seems to be large growers, millers and "middlemen" that don't like it very much. Not coincidentally these are the same groups that have benefitted the most in the past under more corrupt regimes.

I support government schemes that help people when they are in need or when imbalances occur in agricultural markets to the detriment of farmers. The scheme that has been scrapped is said to be rife with corruption and the only groups that seem to bemoaning its demise are rice millers, large rice farmers and the BhumJaiThai Party . The new scheme is overwhelmingly supported by the majority of rice farmers as you will see if you check your PM box for Bangkok Post articles I sent you. There's lots of other articles at BP on the subject if you do a little Googling.

The scheme may be supported, I don't doubt that for a second. I'm sure the farmers would be happy if they got the 10,000 Baht promised under the scheme. But that's not what they're getting. They're effectively being scammed by the government. Being promised 10,000 Baht per ton and then given little more than half of it, just 6,000 Baht per ton.

I guess it depends on what kind of rice you're talking about. Here are market prices and Benchmark prices. If anyone is selling "B" grade maybe they get 1/2 of that

http://gain.fas.usda.gov/Recent%20GAIN%20P...d_3-16-2010.pdf

Anybody complaning in 2008? Commodities are volatile, particularly since the grain to gasahol schemes began. If oil goes back up I doubt the farmers will be complaining.

I know Thai rice isn't exactly the same as some other global markets but it won't be too different. About $USD250/ST

Care to explain why the government has promised the farmers 10,000 Baht per ton and then only gives them 6,100 or 6,200 Baht? Seems a little fraudulent to me, to say the least.

Ya know, I don't have the answer to that question and I've got a couple of rice farms. I'll give you a piece of anything you can get them to send my way though.

So why do you still support a government that promises 10,000 Baht per ton of rice to its farmers, the backbone of the nation, and then ends up giving them only barely over 6,000 Baht?

I support government schemes that help people when they are in need or when imbalances occur in agricultural markets to the detriment of farmers. The scheme that has been scrapped is said to be rife with corruption and the only groups that seem to bemoaning its demise are rice millers, large rice farmers and the BhumJaiThai Party . The new scheme is overwhelmingly supported by the majority of rice farmers as you will see if you check your PM box for Bangkok Post articles I sent you. There's lots of other articles at BP on the subject if you do a little Googling.

Anybody complaning in 2008? Commodities are volatile, particularly since the grain to gasahol schemes began. If oil goes back up I doubt the farmers will be complaining.

I know Thai rice isn't exactly the same as some other global markets but it won't be too different. About $USD250/ST

Care to explain why the government has promised the farmers 10,000 Baht per ton and then only gives them 6,100 or 6,200 Baht? Seems a little fraudulent to me, to say the least.

Ya know, I don't have the answer to that question and I've got a couple of rice farms. I'll give you a piece of anything you can get them to send my way though.

Here is another example of how the Abhisit government is exploiting Thailand's poor people:

Representatives of the Thai Farmers Association had today sent a letter to the prime minister again asking the government to help solve the problem of low rice prices, association chairman Wichian Puanglamjiak said on Tuesday.

The letter was submitted via the Commerce Ministry,

Mr Wichian said although the government had set the guaranteed price for rice at 10,000 baht a tonne, farmers could still get only 6,100 to 6,200 baht a tonne due low rice prices on the world market.

"We want the government to help raise the price of rice to 10,000 baht per tonne as announced.

"If our demand is ignored, farmers from Chachoengsao, Lopburi, Ang Thong, Chainat, Suphan Buri and Ayutthaya will rally at the Ministry of Commerce," he said on Tuesday.

If the ministry fails to provide the needed assistance, the farmers might have to gather in front of the 11th Infantry Regiment base on Phahon Yothin road to ask for help from Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva.

Ayutthaya governor Witthaya Piewpong said he had learned of the problem and had ordered the provincial internal trade office to send a letter outlining the difficulties the farmers are facing to the government via the Ministry of Commerce.

He called on leaders of the group not to lead farmers to rally in Bangkok at the moment.

The red-shirts were still protesting against the government and it would be unsafe for farmers to rally in the capital now.

how is that the governments fault they dont set the world rice market prices, hel_l they could set it at 1,000,000 baht per kilo... but if the WORLD market wont bear it they will not reach their price point... And for someone that supports che, well shouldnt the rice be distributed to all the people at a minimum cost? last i checked rice sold in thailand is going for between 25-45 baht per kilo....so 6,200 per ton isnt bad.. do the math

You clearly don't know how rice sales work in Thailand. The government sets the prices, not the farmers. And in this case, the government has promised them 10,000 Baht per ton, but ends up paying them only 6,000 Baht per ton. Laughable if you check the price of an Uncle Ben's 100gr. rice pack in your home country.

Anybody complaning in 2008? Commodities are volatile, particularly since the grain to gasahol schemes began. If oil goes back up I doubt the farmers will be complaining.

I know Thai rice isn't exactly the same as some other global markets but it won't be too different. About $USD250/ST

Reds deny distributing stickers promoting Thaksin as president

BANGKOK: -- The red shirts had no involvement in the stickers with a message to promote "New Thai State under President Thaksin Shinawatra", their leader Natthawut Saikua said on Tuesday.

The stickers, with white message on red background, were distributed in public places along Silom Road.

Natthawut urged police to look into the matter and arrest the distributors.

Freedom of speech? Not under the Reds.

Can you please provide a link to the source of your post to verify the article?

Reds deny distributing stickers promoting Thaksin as president

BANGKOK: -- The red shirts had no involvement in the stickers with a message to promote "New Thai State under President Thaksin Shinawatra", their leader Natthawut Saikua said on Tuesday.

The stickers, with white message on red background, were distributed in public places along Silom Road.

Natthawut urged police to look into the matter and arrest the distributors.

-- The Nation 2010-04-20

No surprises here, Thaksins political opponents playing dirty as usual.

My wife says the Red Shirts ARE that stupid to distribute these stickers as they've been distributing similar materials amongst their followers for months now. I saw they couldn't possibly be that stupid and it was brilliant ploy by someone to do it and then show how it ties in so neatly to the "Taksin" magazine and similar periodicals. 10 out of 10 for imagination, effort and execution.

Even if Abhisit promised general elections in 6 months how much can he be trusted ?

a- He change his mind all the time . First army no live ammo , then have live ammo but only shoot in the air , then now we know for a fact some shot live bullets at innocent reds rank and file

b- He is not even in control himself . He reports to the army . he owes his job to them

Abhisit has made no promises on either the dissolution of the government or for a timeframe when new elections might be held, beyond those regularly scheduled for end of 2011 that is. He has made offers to radically cut the term of his government and move new elections well forward. All these concilliatory offers have been rejected outright. They are no longer on the table. The only thing curtailing his running out his full term is that his coalition partners are making vague rumblings about 6 months till new elections. Who knows what that means and who knows if they will feel the same way next week or next month. The Red Shirts should have taken the deal offered. Now they look pretty stupid and bloodthirsty and their motives for being so are easy to question.

vague rumblings? even his Boss Anupong says elections must be soon - it's not over yet

If Anupong were his boss, do you think he'd have given himself the job he has now? Are you familiar with the plot device, good cop/bad cop ?

It is only rarely that an actual foreign person, much less a high ranking politician makes partisan comments for the record. More often than not what is written in the foreign press is an editorial with no byline in a paper that is part of a multinational conglomerate. Then there are the financial rags like The WSJ, The Fin, Time, The Economist and so on. Everything they write is through the lense of expansion of globalization. You may remember there are elements in Thailand (not Thaksin of course) that have been vocal in their opposition of such agendas. Also, in many reports from overseas, one is left wondering if the author even has a Thai stamp in their passport.

You have to be kidding on three counts:

1) World leaders and foreign persons make comments about Thailand all the time. Such as when the US State Department recently advised both sides to stop using violence and follow democratic process, i.e., hold an election

Yes, but they don't make comments that say anything, such as the example you just cited, and it usually comes from a "spokesman".

2) Large media outfits like CNN and the BBC, and even news magazines like Time, the Economist, et al, maintain journalists in Thailand, many of whom are Thai nationals

I think we were talking about the printed media. Obviously television media has a reporter. Some more capable than others.

3) The foreign press in general provides a reasonably factual representation of events, in that they describe what is happening. Many of them, such as the Economist that you use as an example of 'not a Thai stamp in the passport' are actually critical of both sides these days

See, the Economist is a good example of what I'm talking about. They've had the story wrong in Thailand for at least the 8 years I've been here. Only now are they starting to see what a mess Thaksin, their Golden Child has made of things.

The only reporting that we see in "Thailand Propaganda Clippings" is that which is critical of just one side, never both sides, never the other side. One wonders why ...

You can post whatever you want in here. If you do some may ask you top defend it however.

This is Thaksin's response on those stickers:

"Those who are behind this act do not have a good intention to the country and want to widen the social divisions. They are also engaging in tax corruption,"

I sh!t you not.

I wonder if he turned to stone after making these comments.

Wow excellent, they found an international publication that touts the Thai establishment's line!!! This in the face of article after article in all Western countries painting a much more balanced picture.

Good job.

And... I guess the same could be said of the News Clippings forum.. Hasn't exactly been overflowing with articles from the BBC, NY Times, ABC, etc, etc, etc. I wonder why.

That's my point. As soon as this article cropped up, even when it was still hearsay and had not been verified, there it was on the red scrolling banner at the top of the forum.

Funny how no opposing viewpoints receive the same treatment, and don't even get any airtime here whatsoever . I wonder why that is?

Now what was I saying about renaming "Thailand New Clippings" to "Thailand Propaganda Clippings?"

It is only rarely that an actual foreign person, much less a high ranking politician makes partisan comments for the record. More often than not what is written in the foreign press is an editorial with no byline in a paper that is part of a multinational conglomerate. Then there are the financial rags like The WSJ, The Fin, Time, The Economist and so on. Everything they write is through the lense of expansion of globalization. You may remember there are elements in Thailand (not Thaksin of course) that have been vocal in their opposition of such agendas. Also, in many reports from overseas, one is left wondering if the author even has a Thai stamp in their passport.

Even if Abhisit promised general elections in 6 months how much can he be trusted ?

a- He change his mind all the time . First army no live ammo , then have live ammo but only shoot in the air , then now we know for a fact some shot live bullets at innocent reds rank and file

b- He is not even in control himself . He reports to the army . he owes his job to them

Abhisit has made no promises on either the dissolution of the government or for a timeframe when new elections might be held, beyond those regularly scheduled for end of 2011 that is. He has made offers to radically cut the term of his government and move new elections well forward. All these concilliatory offers have been rejected outright. They are no longer on the table. The only thing curtailing his running out his full term is that his coalition partners are making vague rumblings about 6 months till new elections. Who knows what that means and who knows if they will feel the same way next week or next month. The Red Shirts should have taken the deal offered. Now they look pretty stupid and bloodthirsty and their motives for being so are easy to question.

So I'm reading about "Oil "plunging" on volcano and Goldman jitters". Here's my takeaway. A plunge sure ain't what it used to be and news is for suckers.

you have no heart for the doom&gloom brigade

I don't know, I may join up soon. Last go round $SPX headed south at $95 oil, and quickly. We're getting there...

Somewhere along the way markets seemed to change to the view that high oil prices and high market index prices go hand in hand. That is seldom the case, and while ultra low interest rates can get things bubbling, high oil is going to set a cap at some point. The non finacial world (which admittedly grows smaller and smaller) runs on oil and real bull markets tend to start with cheap oil. Good trading opps though.

I know there are some on this forum who don't get the satire of "Notthenation.com". maybe they will now.

http://www.notthenation.com/pages/news/getnews.php?id=882

It's not that no one gets the satire. The problem is, it is often hard to distinguish between that which is real here and that which is satire.

Lest we forget

On Monday, Thaksin's brother Payap Shinawatra floated an idea that he could be a go-between to arrange the negotiations between the government and Thaksin in order to end the street protests by the red shirts.

Payap said the political predicament would dissipate if the government agrees not to put Thaksin in jail if he returns from his exile.

In his reaction, Korbsak said Thaksin's problems stemmed from the judicial decisions and that the government had no mandate to intervene in the judiciary.

Well, I never! What a nerve attaching himself to the peoples struggle for democracy. You'd think he was funding it, and this was all about him!

yeah, the guy with the top of his head blown off was so threatening waving that flag and footclapper, he deserved to die

No. He didn't deserve to die.

But, there is no evidence that the army shot him.

And he was in an area where the army were being attacked with grenades, bombs and firearms.

He wasn't just an "innocent" protestor.

who you think shot him? Santa Claus?

You mean the guy that brings presents from the north?

If you really want to know who, which side, planned and conspired to start the killing Saturday night on April 10, for whatever their aim, please consider the following factual information, if you can.

Precisely before the initial armed attack, which caught both protesters and security forces off guard. seven 5 kilogram plastic explosive bombs were detonated at the bottom of 3 of the massive electrical pylons that feed the city from the north. If one of the pylons had come down the whole city of Bangkok would have fallen into darkness. One can only presume the killing would have gone on much longer and we would not have the videos that are available.

Whoever started the killing also blew up the pylons.

Any theory about what is transpiring in the streets of Bangkok that cannot adequately account for this piece of factual information must be wrong.

Merry April 10 from Santa?

I guess if it were the Army's aim to darken the city and instigate violent attacks, they would have headed down to the power company and flipped a few switches. I think it's safe to say the Army doesn't need to destroy infrastructure in a manner that seeks to create generalized terror in order to accomplish their aims.

The Dow dropped sharply on Friday to test short-term support at 11000. Failure would signal a larger correction back to support at 10700. Twiggs Money Flow (21-day) retreat below 10% would confirm. The long-term target for the breakout remains 12000*; with reversal below primary support at 9900 unlikely.

I heard that the 50-day Moving Primary Line will be below and above 15% (simultaneously) this week indicating a strong over hold re: stocks. Also expect full scale advance (backwards) from 11,000 sometime this month (but not before today). Also , its clear currencies, according to PPP comparison, will rise (but not in Greenwich Mean Time, obviously)

Could you post the decipher sheet for this please? I'm afraid I didn't grok any of that.

.

who you think shot him? Santa Claus?

Who stood to benefit from increased chaos, violence and any resultant deaths? Certainly not Abhisit nor the armed forces, who have been under increased pressure ever since. It was a cold and calculated move, much like we saw at Songkran in 2009.

Not only that, who rushed to steal these bodies from the morgue to prevent forensic evidence being collected and autopsies being conducted? It was clear almost from the first minute.