kwilco

Firstly as humans most of th animals we eat for meat are farmed vegetarians - they are away of changing grass and other inedible crops into protiene. Dogs have a diet that makes them inappropriate for human consumption. But when eaten in places like Thailand and Korea, they are not properly farmed and often just caught offf the road - they don't follow hygienic food production methods and th habit of cooking them live is rather inhumane

I see Korea has taken measures against the eating of dogs. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/09/south-korea-votes-to-ban-production-and-sale-of-dog-meat I wonder how this will affect Thailand? Will the Thai government take similar measures?

What does tht mean? - "of other cases"? the norm for alcohol in incidents is about 33% so why this enormous jump - the key word being "cases"? are to conclude that the police only prosecuted DUI and ignored all other offences? What precisely are they doing here?

Glad to hear it. - it explains this sweeping racist syereotype "My assertion is that the average Thai , or actually the majority of Thais do not care as much as you do, they barely give it a second thought, its been like this since they became mobile."

there you are - racist and derogatory comment. Why is it that racistis spend so much time arguing they aren't racist?

you hope!!

tp better understand the problems Thai faces, I'd suggest that people familiarise themslelves with the 5 Es of road safety. The 5 Es of Road Safety in Thailand These are basically the international tenets of the Safe System road safety method. The 5 Es were first mentioned in Thailand at the ASEAN road safety conference about 2007 successive Thai governments have failed to adopt this as it would interfere with such things as the constitution, road building and other government interests For over 3 decades Thailand has had various “Road Safety Action Plans” and has espoused the virtues of the 5 “E”s (it has to be said with little effect) ... but without them, Road Safety in Thailand is doomed. These are 5 “E”s of road safety….. 1. Education 2. Enforcement 3. Engineering 4. Emergency 5. Evaluation 1. Education This is fairly self-explanatory - people need to be told/shown how to drive and given the “tools” to share the road with other users – This goes way beyond a solitary driving test when people first start driving. UK had several government TV campaigns in the 60s and 70s. Clever well thought out ads with a bit of humour that weren’t condescending and helped to establish the country as a safe place to drive. (Do you remember the elephant in the fog?). Education of drivers continues throughout their driving life. The first people to educate in Thailand would be the police. 2. Enforcement Again self-explanatory - but Thailand has the added problem of ingrained corruption, graft and bribery which impedes this, no matter how many laws are passed. The laws need to be reasonable applicable and equitably enforced too. The police and courts need to be trained to deal with it 3. Engineering: - most critics of (Thai) road safety usually ignore this aspect of road safety. It falls into 2 categories …. A - Vehicle engineering - Safer car design and engineering: - car safety is both “passive” (seat belts, airbags and construction etc.) and “Active” (braking steering, handling, traction control etc.) these two are really interdependent now with so much computerised and hi-tech features on modern vehicles. Active safety features are designed to prevent collisions and accidents from happening. Passive safety features, meanwhile, are meant to mitigate the damage of a collision that is unavoidable · Anti-locking brakes (ABS) · Side impact bars · AVCSS – “Advanced Vehicle Control and Safety Systems" · Electronic stability control (ESC) · Traction control · Air-bags · More reliable engine, tyres and components · Vehicle dynamics in general (they vary from UK and Thailand) Of course, roadworthiness checks are vital - but totally unenforced in Thailand. B - Road Engineering - The design and construction on the roads, bridges, junctions, road surface, camber, drainage etc. · The use of barriers and median (e.g. Armco), the removal of roadside hazards - e.g. trees or boulders on the side and centre of roads. The clearing of billboards and vegetation that obscure drivers’ vision · Traffic - the use of lines, signs, bollards etc. etc. to dictate how and where the traffic flows and at what speed - virtually non-excitant in Thailand and seldom noticed by drivers in countries that make good use of it. · Better infrastructure and engineering · Better road surfaces · Better signage · More forgiving · Traffic calming · Shared space - keeping various road users apart is key to safety in some situations - if they are separated they can’t collide. Like so many things on the roads in Thailand, the only reason that U-Turns happen is because the road authorities ALLOW it.... this is a design and engineering problem (and a cost reduction exercise), not so much a driver problem. 4. Emergency - What happens in the event of injury... this is a major factor in who lives or dies. It has been well documented that the time between accident and getting treatment is crucial in the survival of RTI victims. Treatment on the scene and reducing the time it takes to get the patient to hospital is vital. Thailand still has NO EFFECTIVE UNIVERSAL EMERGENCY SERVICE!! Ambulances have no standard equipment levels and what comes to your aid at an accident could be anything from a boy-racer pickup truck through van to a partially equipped ambulance. Paramedics are seldom fully trained. 5. Evaluation - How do we ascertain if measures are effective and what new ideas can be implemented. Most governments have agencies of some sort that after engaging any road scheme, whether it is construction or a safety campaign, review in detail every aspect of that project; effects on local population, environment, accident statistics etc. etc. Statistics are gathered and monitored and appropriate action taken. - Whereas Thailand may nominally have such bodies their effectiveness is just about zero. Road safety in Thailand is left largely to ill-thought out, baseless pronouncements made by members of the government with little better to do. Statistics collected in Thailand are incomplete, amateurish and don’t eve correlate with international conventions.

now youre no longer arguing the debate, you are just ad hom and sealoning. (BTW - I undertook rests at a University in the UK as part of my training in road safety.) I don't educate peopoe you do that at university - it seems very common on this thread that people with no konwledge of road safet (or cannabis) are preapred just to say stuff based on nothing more than their lack of understanding. Weed might be detected in your system for up to 90 days after you’ve taken the drug, depending on a number of factors, including Why instead of getting sidelined don't you actually say something intelligent about road safety in Thailand - or at least go research something about it - you are arguing from a vacuum at the moment.

You are still fixating on driving which I have already explained is not the right way to analyse road safety. And now you are advocating intoxication in a debate about road safety. Is that what your do? There is a common misconception (about 50% amongst cannabis users that they can drive safely after smoking. THC, the psychoactive ingredient in cannabis, can impair a person's levels of attention and their perception of time and speed, important skills you might think for driving a car. - One meta-analysis of 60 studies found that marijuana use causes impairment on every measure of safe driving, including motor-coordination, visual function and completion of complex tasks. It is also worth bearing in mind that unlike alcohol cannabis stays in the bloodstream for up to 2 weeks. However I can tell you that II have driven way more miles than most people almost certainly you, judging by your comments - Thailand for 20 years and several vehicles. I enjoy driving both professionally and recreationally on 4 and 2 wheels and it has been shown that I am unusually relaxed when driving much more so than in other situations. As said it isn't driving it is how you analyse and understand the whole driving environment that is important in terms of road safety - It is worth noting that people who find themselves getting wound up and insulting other road users - like yourself - are more probably at fault themselves than the other drivers - they just get wound up because they are unable to adapt to driving in unfamiliar circumstances - so if you are of the opinion that you are better driver than the other road users, I would suggest you need to step back take a deep breath as it is quite possible that you are the one who is in danger on Thai roads. You might also bear in mind that many people aim their vitriol at drivers of 4-wheeled vehicles - the truth is you are more likely to die in a 4-wheeled vehicle in America than you are in Thailand. such is the skewed perception of expats in Thailand.

You don't seem to realise that that isn't an argument - which kind of backs up what I was saying. IdF I'm making a fool of myself, I would have thought someone like you would enjoy it, but I suspect you just feel uncomfortable not understanding my point of view so you just plead "make it stop" - you need to think why.

Yes- tht is the norm, not just for Thailand but holidays al over the world. Of course the statisitcs released so far can only be regarded at bast as a guidleline - they are nape-of-the-neck reactions by the RTP - and quite apart from their abiity to calculate some of the "causes" are just plain bizarre. YHe first thing is of course that the death staistics can rise - normally real statisitcs are not released for 6 to 12 months - there also is no preper scientific analuysis of any crasg=hes, just a local cop rubbing his chin - doubt if they even get a. tape measure out.

No, I said your comments were racist, and explained why.

people who use the word "expert" as a term of abuse to describe others usually do so because they themselves no nothing about a topic, can't argue against it a therefore use it in a derogatory sense - but it still has no meaning. Another thing they do is resort to sealioning. So - "evidence" - what evidence would you like? and furthermore what counter-evidence have you presented?

Why is it that people think that just because they drive or have driven somewhere they consider themselves to be in a position to comment of road safety? BTW - I have driven in Edmonton, Alberta and Vancouver BC, as well as Washington, Oregon and California. I've also driven in Australia, Morocco, Italy, Spain, Portugal Germany, France Netherlands, Belgium, Switzerland, Luxembourg Austria I've driven FURTHER than you in Thailand and also in Laos and Malaysia. but that doesn't make be an expert of road safety - it is the analysis I get from critically thinking about road safety and working in a traffic engineers department that helps most. People are incapable of interpreting what they see - what they call "experience" is in reality just an accumulation of bad habits backed up by confirmation bias and a liberal dose of cognitive dissonance.

the real CAUSES of road safety pronblems Idiot drivers exist all over the world in roughly the same proportions – There is no preponderance of stupid drivers in Thailand (apart possibly from Expats) to suggest so is a racist POV and shows a lack of understanding of road safety. Road safety is a public health issue and it is tackles by protecting ALL road users from themselves. Most accidents are caused by “human error” – but people don’t understand what that is – it includes YOU! People love to blame other road users and cite things they see “reckless” driving “too fast” , “don’t care” – these are all subjective expressions and don’t reflect the causes of a crash. Often they are down to many minor errors – tuning a radio, distracted or failure to react appropriately in the slit second after a collision. Shouting at children in the back? Of course phones and eating are common…but there are many different causes. Human error is a major factor in road safety, around 90% of all road accidents. This doesn't necessarily mean that drivers are always intentionally reckless or irresponsible. But recognising this is the basis of any successful road safety policy Here's a breakdown of how human error can manifest in road safety: Cognitive factors - all drivers make small mistakes every time they get behind the wheel or cock their leg over…… Lack of concentration - distractions like phones, eating, or adjusting the radio can divert a driver's focus from the road, this often leads to missed hazards and delayed reactions. Poor decision-making: Speeding, ignoring traffic signals, or misjudging gaps in traffic can all be as a result of miscalculation – Just simple things like parallel parking in any country show how motorists are totally unaware of how to control their vehicle. Fatigue: Drowsiness and lack of sleep impair reaction times and increase the risk of errors. I know of many who boast about how long they can drive in a day etc etc… Intoxication - People like to say “drunk” as if that is the excuse – the truth is even small amounts of alcohol dissolve inhibitions and affect your judgement so the results are usually an increase in MINOR human error: Driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs significantly elevates the risk of accidents by affecting coordination, perception, and decision-making. Physical factors: I know of several expats driving in Thailand who wouldn’t get a licence back home so medical conditions: obvious conditions like epilepsy, but alos diabetes, or vision problems can impair driving ability. Many are totally unaware of their own vision impairment – this is nothing to do with being “Thai”. Many expats are old: They seem unaware that as we age, reaction times and cognitive abilities slow down, increasing the risk of errors on the road. As people get older they are less good at driving in adverse conditions – and this is not helped by the quality of Thai roads or their signs and markings which are often invisible in poor weather. Or bright sunlight even Poor road design: Confusing or unclear road markings, inadequate lighting, or potholes can contribute to accidents especially as about 50% of traffic on Thai roads has 2 wheels. Adverse weather conditions: Rain, low visibility driving as dusk etc can make driving more challenging and increase the risk of errors for all of us. Attributing an accident solely to "human error" is oversimplifying the issue. Often, a combination of factors, including the road environment, vehicle condition, and the driver's state, can contribute to an accident., but as most people are unaware of what human error really is and how it is responsible for up to 90% of crashes it is important to understand this better. None of this related to race or nationality – but it can be addressed by governments as a public health problem not as simply saying Thai people are bad drivers. there are of course some other causes but it is how governments address these problems that is important not some racist perception of Thai people ... please don't start using the word culture as an althernative justification of a racist point of view.

There is stupid, stupider and racist – anyone who thinks the reason for Thailand’s high road death rate is down to “Thais being stupid” – is just plain wrong – if they don’t see that, they probably fall into one of the 3 previous categories. Foreigners in Thailand typically use racist viewpoint when criticising road safety which clouds their perception and of course hinders a rational view of the topic. This harmful practice of attributing negative driving qualities to entire nationalities or races stems from various logical fallacies or just a simplistic untutored attitude to reason and analysis The most obvious is stereotyping. Humans instinctively love to categorize and simplify information, which leads to stereotypes, overgeneralized and unhelpful beliefs about a group of people. Stereotypes can be inaccurate and harmful, and in the case of driving, can unfairly paint an entire nation or race as bad drivers This is usually based on limited or anecdotal experiences. People also mistake driving for experience in road safety Confirmation bias: You ca see this all over this thread and others when people chip in with anecdotes they wrongly perceive as relevant. There is a tendency to pay more attention to information that confirms our existing beliefs, while ignoring or downplaying evidence that contradicts them. This can lead to situations where isolated incidents of bad driving by individuals from a particular group are readily recalled and amplified, while positive examples are overlooked, reinforcing the negative stereotype. In-group bias: People wrong assume that “at home” all drivers are much better than in Thailand. They ignore the fact that they have advanced road safety systems that protect drivers from their own failures and mistakes. So they assume we are all “superb” drivers in our home countries….In this way, we often favour our own group and view them more positively, while simultaneously harbouring negative biases towards out-groups (e.g. the population of Thailand). This leads to attributing negative traits, like poor driving, to members of other nationalities or races more readily than to our own. This is clearly demonstrated on this thread As I mentioned earlier people love to put forward a single issue as the answer )(as if no-one had ever thought of it before!) This results in scapegoating (or the “blame game”): For some, when facing frustration or anger in complex situations like traffic crashes, people find it easier to seek a simple explanation to blame. This leads to unfairly and inaccurately targeting specific groups as scapegoats, even if the evidence is lacking… and in the case of accidents in Thailand when was the last time you looked at an RTI report? Media the media has a huge part in this. Time after time they mispresent the situation – reporters with no understanding of road safety of statistics, contribute to the problem by focusing only on sensational stories (that sell) involving drivers from certain groups, neglecting to provide broader context or highlighting positive examples. This skewed representation can further solidify negative stereotypes in the public consciousness. So remember … One person within any group cannot be accurately represented by a single stereotype. On this thread there is a general acceptance of negative qualities to entire groups which is unfair, inaccurate, and harmful. Focusing on cause rather than association and avoiding generalizations is crucial for to understanding and combating prejudice and understanding road safety. Instead of resorting to harmful stereotypes, one needs to learn how to challenge one’s own biases and be aware of how they influence our perceptions. Learn how to RESEARCH not SEARCH to seek out real perspectives and information in order to broaden our understanding. Don’t tar all motorists with one brush and truly understand why human error is and how it is a constant on ALL roads everywhere.

QED

More racist nonsense! - You are just insulting Thai people.

Everybody has their own "theory" - just because they drive, they think they are an "expert" (i hate that word) on road safety - unfortunately they don't add up - they are at best hypotheses but they don't know how to use evidence to back up the idea that presumably came to them either in the toilet or during a drinking session in a bar. Too fast No police Drunk THere is NO SINGLE cause for Thailand's deplorable road safety record and these lay-people who think they have the right answer are totally barking up the wrong tree.

Rubbish post - you are not even beginning to understand how road safety works - you are not offering any verifyable evidence to support you purely subjective claims - I suspect you don't even begin to realise how facile they are.

THat's like looking a Cadillac and saying it's the Rolls-Royce of cars.

I should re-iterate why you CAN"t get pizza that's any good as a pizza outside italy - I find that most people here are quite happy to eat "ultra-processed foods" oblivious to what that does to your diet and it isn't just pizza, it’s all Italian food - Italian food encompasses a vast range of culinary traditions from different regions, each with its own unique flavours and ingredients. In typical Italian tradition, Pizza is a regional dish. (it also goes for many foods served outside their native country or region. It isn't because you "like the taste" - if you had a real pizza and you're used to ultra-processed foods you might not like it - it is all about how to make a proepr one not some bastrardised version for mass production or by a chef with no real ingredients These are some reasons why you will find differences in Italian food outside of Italy: The ingredients. Freshness and quality: Italy has a strong emphasis on using the freshest, seasonal ingredients. Outside of Italy, it is usually impossible to access the same quality and variety of produce, especially the regional varieties and specialties. (Similarly, I usually buy chillies in Thailand to take back to UK family restaurant as they have quite a different taste from the chillies usually available in UK which come from India.) Certain ingredients are just not readily available and are substituted with inferior versions, leading to a different taste profile. Even the most diligent “competent” chef can’t avoid this. Italy has farming that often differ from those in other countries, resulting in variations in flavours and texture of ingredients that may look identical – even though they are genetically different. Italian cooking techniques and traditions don’t travel – chefs take short cut or “innovate” or “improve” – to the cost of authenticity. This is often dictated by availability and economics Most restaurants outside of Italy don’t traditional techniques and recipes. They adapt dishes to suit local tastes or use shortcuts, which can alter the flavour. They lack skill and knowledge. Even if they are of Italian decent, it is still necessary to master traditional Italian cooking and this takes time and the experience of mentors. Cooks outside Italy simply don’t have the same level of expertise, leading to variations in execution. The way food is prepared and presented in Italy is often connected to specific cultural rituals and traditions. Recreating those aspects outside of Italy can prove impossible, impacting the overall experience. What we expect is often erroneous. What we consider to be "Italian food" outside of Italy is often influenced by stereotypes - popular restaurants and media misrepresentations, which are inaccurate reproductions of the diverse culinary landscape of Italy. Taste is of course subjective, and what one person finds delicious, another might find uninspiring – or they may not have ever tasted Italian food in Italy. I personally don’t mind eating things called “pizza” from other parts of the world – (but then my nick name is “dustbin”) – but they are not real Italian pizzas as anyone from Italy will know. I’m sure conversely you will be able to find bad pizzas in Italy – especially in the most touristic areas. Italian food has constantly evolved throughout history, influenced by regional variations and external factors. So, even "authentic" Italian food can look and taste different depending on the specific region and time period. But it still won’t travel outside the country. Ultimately, the best way to appreciate Italian food is to keep an open mind and try dishes from different regions and restaurants, both inside and outside of Italy. Then you’ll realise that Italian food just doesn’t travel outside Italy

I think a comment like that shows you really don't understand how to make a point. I very much doubt if you can separate, opinion from evidence from fact and work out how they should be applied to an argument.

several posts pointing out that italian food is prepared in a "traditional" way in other countries - unfortunately that is not an argument - it is actually a reason why it doesn't travel - it takes more than just a facimile over or similar ingredients the fact it they are NOT the same - the ingrdients won't be Italian locally grown, the doungh won't be right (BTW - don't start me on Olice ol!!!) and the Guanciale traditionally used in Carbonara was actually BANNED in the USA for several years. It isn't just Italian food, it is the way that best simple food is made that doesn't travel - it requires local produce, local methodology and local knowledge. As I said I would eat anything and a lot I would enjoy, but I'm aware of what I'm eating and how it falls short of the original BTW - Focaccia is an even bigger travesty than pizza - it comes from Genova as does pesto.

Whatever you see - says more about you than me.